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02-28-2020, 11:48 AM
(This post was last modified: 02-28-2020, 12:30 PM by Camz.)
(02-22-2020, 10:08 PM)ResidentArtist Wrote: Hey there, welcome to the board! Nice to see another person that's sort of from my generation. I'm a "Millennial In Name Only" and relate to Gen Z and the Artist archetype in a lot of ways, since I'm not a '90s kid, don't remember events like 9/11, and share the same sense of meme humor that you mentioned. What's the earliest news event you remember? Are there any historical figures from Artist generations you feel like you relate to?
Sorry for the late reply! Don't remember much news before 2016, but something that terrified me is abandoned babies dying in cars during the summer. Also, a toddler fell into a sewer, who would've drowned or something if he wasn't rescued. I had a toddler sister at the time. I'm glad I didn't pay attention to the news any more than that.
And for the second question, eh, not really. If they're creative, harmless, compromising mediators, then I guess so. I can sort of relate to Anne Frank being a teen girl with big dreams in an increasingly hellish world, but at least my life isn't in danger, I don't think. I might relate to her more later on.
Unrelated, but I should give my thoughts on the Artist archetype. Even though I can't relate to them a TON, I still vibe with them and respect them. I very much respect Silents and Progressives, like Theo Roosevelt (favorite president), Woodrow Wilson, Booker T (also the name of a bookworm in this one Barney episode), MLK, and of course, Bernie. I like the way they lead and advocate, more than the Dubois type. Don't recognize any artists before the Compromisers, who I respect the least. a) Andrew Jackson. b) Weren't they responsible for that backroom deal that gave us a Republican president while taking troops out of the South? If they had been a little less compromising, maybe the Jim Crow laws and KKK wouldn't have happened. To say people's lives were ruined because of their decisions is a huge understatement. Imagine how much better African Americans would have it today if it weren't for them. They screwed up the High.
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(02-28-2020, 11:48 AM)Camz Wrote: Weren't they responsible for that backroom deal that gave us a Republican president while taking troops out of the South?
No, they weren't. By the compromise of 1877, which is what you're talking about, the Compromise generation was long dead, with the exception of perhaps a few irrelevant 90 year olds.
If the compromise of 1877 hadn't happened, Tilden would have been President instead of Hayes, and the Jim Crow laws would have happened anyway.
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Huh. I assumed they were partially responsible because it just seems like an Artist thing to do. They are called the COMPROMISE generation. I guess it was the Transcedentals and Gilded then. I'm sorry compromisers I still like you
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(02-28-2020, 02:20 PM)Camz Wrote: Huh. I assumed they were partially responsible because it just seems like an Artist thing to do. They are called the COMPROMISE generation. I guess it was the Transcedentals and Gilded then. I'm sorry compromisers I still like you
I believe Strauss & Howe named the the Compromise generation for compromises that helped put off the massive bloodshed of the Civil War, starting with the Missouri Compromise, and later work to try to reduce and eventually eliminate slavery slowly and peacefully.
The Compromise of 1877 was likely to have been worked out by Reactive Gilded. Reactives work out compromises too, but as quick fixes rather than after long, careful thought. They just do what works.
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Fascinating. That definitely fits their archetypes. I wonder how H&S chose the names for the generations pre-Lost ?
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02-29-2020, 07:38 AM
(This post was last modified: 02-29-2020, 07:44 AM by Warren Dew.)
I believe "missionary generation" may have been in use before Strauss & Howe: they were the ones who went to new lands to do good, and as is often said, "did very well indeed". Obviously there were many who weren't missionaries, but it's a reasonable identifier. The Gilded Age was already a well defined period in American History, so it was natural to name a generation after it, especially a merged Civic and Reactive generation for which the timing fits well. I personally think there were two separate generations there, which makes it less an appropriate name, though "Gilded" could still be used for the Reactive generation that came of age during the post civil war high. In that case you kind of have to use the "Civil War Generation" for the generation that fought, but didn't command, the Civil War.
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02-29-2020, 09:33 AM
(This post was last modified: 02-29-2020, 07:27 PM by Marypoza.)
(02-29-2020, 07:38 AM)Warren Dew Wrote: I believe "missionary generation" may have been in use before Strauss & Howe: they were the ones who went to new lands to do good, and as is often said, "did very well indeed". Obviously there were many who weren't missionaries, but it's a reasonable identifier. The Gilded Age was already a well defined period in American History, so it was natural to name a generation after it, especially a merged Civic and Reactive generation for which the timing fits well. I personally think there were two separate generations there, which makes it less an appropriate name, though "Gilded" could still be used for the Reactive generation that came of age during the post civil war high. In that case you kind of have to use the "Civil War Generation" for the generation that fought, but didn't command, the Civil War.
-- Transcendentals may have gotten their name bcuz alot of them were in2 seances & stuff. Awakeners were named after the original Gr8 Awakening. Liberty generation obviously has 2 do w/the Revolution. Many Patriots, including George Washington fall in2 that cohort
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(02-29-2020, 07:38 AM)Warren Dew Wrote: I believe "missionary generation" may have been in use before Strauss & Howe: they were the ones who went to new lands to do good, and as is often said, "did very well indeed". Obviously there were many who weren't missionaries, but it's a reasonable identifier. The Gilded Age was already a well defined period in American History, so it was natural to name a generation after it, especially a merged Civic and Reactive generation for which the timing fits well. I personally think there were two separate generations there, which makes it less an appropriate name, though "Gilded" could still be used for the Reactive generation that came of age during the post civil war high. In that case you kind of have to use the "Civil War Generation" for the generation that fought, but didn't command, the Civil War.
Theoretically at least, a Reactive generation is supposed to come of age (meaning youth, young adulthood) in an Unravelling, like the Lost and Gen X did. So their youth would have been sometime before the civil war, and the post war gilded age high would have been elderhood for them, when they would have held executive positions in various enterprises and institutions, like reactives/nomads Truman and Ike did in the last "high."
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(02-29-2020, 02:07 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: (02-29-2020, 07:38 AM)Warren Dew Wrote: I believe "missionary generation" may have been in use before Strauss & Howe: they were the ones who went to new lands to do good, and as is often said, "did very well indeed". Obviously there were many who weren't missionaries, but it's a reasonable identifier. The Gilded Age was already a well defined period in American History, so it was natural to name a generation after it, especially a merged Civic and Reactive generation for which the timing fits well. I personally think there were two separate generations there, which makes it less an appropriate name, though "Gilded" could still be used for the Reactive generation that came of age during the post civil war high. In that case you kind of have to use the "Civil War Generation" for the generation that fought, but didn't command, the Civil War.
Theoretically at least, a Reactive generation is supposed to come of age (meaning youth, young adulthood) in an Unravelling, like the Lost and Gen X did. So their youth would have been sometime before the civil war, and the post war gilded age high would have been elderhood for them, when they would have held executive positions in various enterprises and institutions, like reactives/nomads Truman and Ike did in the last "high."
-- yeah that's what I was thinking
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(02-29-2020, 02:07 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: (02-29-2020, 07:38 AM)Warren Dew Wrote: I believe "missionary generation" may have been in use before Strauss & Howe: they were the ones who went to new lands to do good, and as is often said, "did very well indeed". Obviously there were many who weren't missionaries, but it's a reasonable identifier. The Gilded Age was already a well defined period in American History, so it was natural to name a generation after it, especially a merged Civic and Reactive generation for which the timing fits well. I personally think there were two separate generations there, which makes it less an appropriate name, though "Gilded" could still be used for the Reactive generation that came of age during the post civil war high. In that case you kind of have to use the "Civil War Generation" for the generation that fought, but didn't command, the Civil War.
Theoretically at least, a Reactive generation is supposed to come of age (meaning youth, young adulthood) in an Unravelling, like the Lost and Gen X did. So their youth would have been sometime before the civil war, and the post war gilded age high would have been elderhood for them, when they would have held executive positions in various enterprises and institutions, like reactives/nomads Truman and Ike did in the last "high."
Sorry, you're right. They would have come of age during the pre Civil War unravelling. Serves me right for posting while falling asleep. But yes, they would have been in high postions or enjoying retirement during the Gilded Age, those that were still alive.
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I was wondering about the Missionaries and Transcendentals. Seances make sense for prophets. *flips through T4T book* What about Progressives? They have one of the most boring names here to be honest. I really like the sound of Cavalier, Lost, Liberty, and X Generation.
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(03-01-2020, 01:19 AM)Camz Wrote: I was wondering about the Missionaries and Transcendentals. Seances make sense for prophets. *flips through T4T book* What about Progressives? They have one of the most boring names here to be honest. I really like the sound of Cavalier, Lost, Liberty, and X Generation.
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- the Progressive cohort enacted alot of reforms during the l8 19th century, child labor laws & antitrust laws perhaps being the most memorable. Teddy Roosevelt, who was pretty progressive 4 his day, pretty much sums them up
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(03-01-2020, 01:19 AM)Camz Wrote: I really like the sound of Cavalier, Lost, Liberty, and X Generation.
The "Lost Generation" was a term in common use long before Strauss & Howe published Generations. "Generation X" likewise got popular independent from Strauss & Howe, who originally used the term "13er" for that generation.
I like "Liberty" too. Reactives get all the good generation names.
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03-02-2020, 12:52 AM
(This post was last modified: 03-02-2020, 11:54 AM by pbrower2a.)
(03-01-2020, 10:40 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: (03-01-2020, 01:19 AM)Camz Wrote: I really like the sound of Cavalier, Lost, Liberty, and X Generation.
The "Lost Generation" was a term in common use long before Strauss & Howe published Generations. "Generation X" likewise got popular independent from Strauss & Howe, who originally used the term "13er" for that generation.
I like "Liberty" too. Reactives get all the good generation names.
In Eurasia the equivalent of the Lost Generation might have been called the Fascist Generation for the large number of fascists (Hitler, Goebbels, Goering, Himmler, Mussolini, Laval, Doriot, Mussert, Quisling, Szalasi, Pavelic, Tojo, Doihara, Franco, Szlazar, Moseley)... and of course some nasty "Red fascists" (Kaganovich, Beria, Vishinsky, Bierut, Gottwald, Rakosi, Groza, Ulbricht, Tito, and Mao Zedong) too. Underrated for his evil was KKK leader (the 1915 Klan had most of the characteristics of fascism before Mussolini established his Fascist Party) David Stephenson. For sheer vileness as persons it is hard to top the pornographer of hatred Julius Streicher, Nazi hanging judge Roland Freisler, and (Holocaust perpetrator and gross pervert) Oskar Dirlewanger.
Of course there were some very nasty members of the Missionary Generation (Keitel, Kaltenbrunner, Graziani, Antonescu, Stalin, Matsuoka, Hirota) and the early wave of the GI Generation (Kaltenbrunner, Mengele, Eichmann, Degrelle, A. Goeth [immortalized in infamy in Schindler's List]). Don't forget Dillinger and 'Bonnie and Clyde' as repugnant characters in America.
It is easy for me as a Boomer to have largely seen Lost Americans largely as harmless grandpa and grandma types -- perhaps because I didn't get to see the Lost as hyper-villains of history when the absolute worst were fascists, Stalinists, and gangsters. Still, good and evil are personal choices, and in view of the consequences, choosing evil is normally a huge mistake. At that one can no more exculpate one's generation than one can one's economic status or cultural identity for choosing evil. Poverty? There are good people in the worst slums.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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(03-01-2020, 10:40 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: (03-01-2020, 01:19 AM)Camz Wrote: I really like the sound of Cavalier, Lost, Liberty, and X Generation.
I like "Liberty" too. Reactives get all the good generation names.
They do! The only one I don't like is "Gilded", which is depressing like Lost but without the edgy cool-ness. Then again that's a Reactive-Civic hybird. Good thing they at least get awesome names, because they're probably the most unlucky of the archetypes. I like their traits, and the Xers I know are super cool. Lost Generation? More like Coolest Generation. Just getting things done.
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I have to admit, I like "Gilded" too. Kind of like one of the reactive generations got to win a little bit.
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Yes, gilded does mean covered in gold after all. It was an age all about the gold. The Gold Rush helped some years before.
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03-02-2020, 12:12 PM
(This post was last modified: 03-02-2020, 12:14 PM by pbrower2a.)
(03-02-2020, 11:34 AM)Warren Dew Wrote: I have to admit, I like "Gilded" too. Kind of like one of the reactive generations got to win a little bit.
Howe and Strauss note that "Gilded" also refers to the superficiality of their achievements. They were extremely materialistic, but most were losers in the great economic struggle by standards of generations that they knew who followed or succeeded them (Republican through GI). Gilding is mere plating.
I see them as a Reactive generation going into the Civil War, the survivors remaining Reactives in the defeated South, but becoming Civic-like in roles after the Civil War. They became Civic-like after the Civil War to the extent that great GI (undeniably Civic) convincingly portrayed the adventurers (including law enforcement) of the Wild West -- John Wayne, Henry Fonda, Jimmy Stewart, Gary Cooper). Don't forget TV westerns as Bonanza and Gunsmoke that featured Lorne Greene and James Arness; those were quite good, and they probably killed the cinematic Western in movie houses for about ten years, except for Clint Eastwood (Silent) making "spaghetti westerns" that had to be censored for television. It might have been interesting to see such late-wave great Lost actors as Jimmy Cagney and Humphrey Bogart in Westerns... but that never happened.
The GI Generation obviously isn't doing Westerns anymore... are Millennial adults taking over there? I do not get pay cable anymore.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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(03-01-2020, 10:40 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: (03-01-2020, 01:19 AM)Camz Wrote: I really like the sound of Cavalier, Lost, Liberty, and X Generation.
The "Lost Generation" was a term in common use long before Strauss & Howe published Generations. "Generation X" likewise got popular independent from Strauss & Howe, who originally used the term "13er" for that generation.
I like "Liberty" too. Reactives get all the good generation names.
-- the story goes that Gertude Stein ( Missionary) told Hemingway that his was a Lost generation
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05-30-2020, 08:28 PM
(This post was last modified: 05-30-2020, 08:29 PM by GeekyCynic.)
Welcome to the forum. It is cool to see the first member of the New Artist generation on this forum. Some of us are old timers who've been around since the forum was first created in the late '90s. I myself joined in 2005, the year you were born, which definitely makes me feel old. I have a nephew who is your age.
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