Donald Trump: America's Berlusconi?

[SomeGuy]

It just happened again!  Look, I appreciate the free ride I am apparently getting in your head, but this has been silly for a while.

Trump ≈ <fill in the blank>:

A.) Hitler
B.) Mussolini
C.) Andrew Jackson
D.) Berlusconi
E.) None of the above.

Whaddya think?

[Odin]

(01-14-2017, 12:06 PM)SomeGuy Wrote: He's on my list (along with over 1200 other people), mainly for his "The Origins of Political Order"

That is a great book. I might not like Fukuyama's politics, but he knows his stuff. I thought his idea about the Medieval Church's consanguity marriage rules breaking up clan units as being the root of Western individualism and the nuclear family being ingenious.

[Odin]

(01-14-2017, 03:59 PM)taramarie Wrote: You guys definitely need us Fi's. If it applied to you this is probably the comment he was referring to.

"Carefuly, Odin, pretty soon you'll start calling it the Cathedral and then your membership in the Movement (always provisional because of your pudgy, pasty, penis-person-of-poweredness) will be revoked for sure!"

He meant that as a joke, Tara. "The Cathedral" is a term some alt-right intellectuals use for the media and academia. He was jokingly saying that since I read some stuff by conservative intellectuals like Oswald Spengler that I "risk" being ostracized by my fellow progressives.

[Odin]

(01-14-2017, 05:08 PM)SomeGuy Wrote: Seriously, Trump as Berlusconi, yay or nay?

I dunno, Silvio seemed more competent than Trump, but I'm not Italian. Also, Berlusconi wasn't a tool of a foreign power.

[SomeGuy]

(01-14-2017, 10:32 PM)Odin Wrote:

(01-14-2017, 12:06 PM)SomeGuy Wrote: He's on my list (along with over 1200 other people), mainly for his "The Origins of Political Order"

That is a great book. I might not like Fukuyama's politics, but he knows his stuff. I thought his idea about the Medieval Church's consanguity marriage rules breaking up clan units as being the root of Western individualism and the nuclear family being ingenious.

I think (not that I have read it) that you're talking about his 1995 book Trust.  A taboo against consanguinity (at least among the hoi polloi, the aristocracy practiced inbreeding like no one's business) is a big one, a country's presence inside or outside of the Hajnal Line is another.

[Odin]

(01-14-2017, 08:57 PM)radind Wrote: The comparison of Trump to Hitler and Mussolini is way overdone. I think that a better analogy would be Andrew Jackson.

Jackson was competent, the same cannot be said of Trump.

[SomeGuy]

(01-14-2017, 10:37 PM)Odin Wrote:

(01-14-2017, 03:59 PM)taramarie Wrote: You guys definitely need us Fi's. If it applied to you this is probably the comment he was referring to.

"Carefuly, Odin, pretty soon you'll start calling it the Cathedral and then your membership in the Movement (always provisional because of your pudgy, pasty, penis-person-of-poweredness) will be revoked for sure!"

He meant that as a joke, Tara. "The Cathedral" is a term some alt-right intellectuals use for the media and academia. He was jokingly saying that since I read some stuff by conservative intellectuals like Oswald Spengler that I "risk" being ostracized by my fellow progressives.

I knew you'd understand.  And "pudgy, pasty, penis-person-of-poweredness" wasn't an insult, it was a way of producing the same effect as stale, pale, white male (a progressive idiom) using alliteration instead of rhyme.

Jokes are never fun when you have to explain them. 

[SomeGuy]

Odin,

I lied, it's in Origins after all.  Shows what I get for talking about the contents of books I haven't gotten round to reading yet. 

And I think it is still early to complain about Trump's competence, he hasn't even been sworn in yet.  Boorishness, general temperament, sure, but job performance?  Premature.

[SomeGuy]

Tara,

Why did you feel the need to reply on Dan's behalf at all?

[Ragnarök_62]

(01-12-2017, 10:28 AM)SomeGuy Wrote: Yeah, cable news in general (Fox, CNN, MSNBC, etc.) is pretty terrible in general.  Of course, I really don't watch it because I don't own a television.  Reading became my pastime of choice at a young age, and that is how I prefer to receive information.  My only quibble now with reading the news is that it necessarily comes through the filter of the author's perceptions and biases, and I have simply lost trust in journalism as a profession.

Berlusconi is at least a decent comparison.  These incessant "Trump is Hitler, no, Trump is Mussolini... He's Hitlerini! memes going around are the worst sort of garbage.

Cable news, only?  Nawwww, all MSM is just awful.   Here's a perfect video ...





Ah yes, the 1980's they were all just so fine, man.

[SomeGuy]

Like I said, Rags, not only do I not own a television, I rarely watch videos on the Internet, either.

And the '80s were lame!

[Marypoza]

(01-14-2017, 10:40 PM)Odin Wrote:

(01-14-2017, 08:57 PM)radind Wrote: The comparison of Trump to Hitler and Mussolini is way overdone. I think that a better analogy would be Andrew Jackson.

Jackson was competent, the same cannot be said of Trump.

-- yes after almost 200 yrs that is how the majority of ppl consider him. During his time he was very controversial-- & to this day many lndians will not handle $20 bills. 

The Founding Fathers implemented the Electoral College to keep ppl like Andrew Jackson out of the WH, btw. So it has actually been irrelevant since the 1820s

[Ragnarök_62]

(01-14-2017, 11:36 PM)SomeGuy Wrote: Like I said, Rags, not only do I not own a television, I rarely watch videos on the Internet, either.

And the '80s were lame!

1.  I own a TeeVee, but it's my puter monitor. I watch youtube stuff 'cause there's no commercials.

2. The '80's.  I do have to disagree.  They were the home of some of the best music, ever.

[gabrielle]

(01-14-2017, 10:40 PM)Odin Wrote:

(01-14-2017, 08:57 PM)radind Wrote: The comparison of Trump to Hitler and Mussolini is way overdone. I think that a better analogy would be Andrew Jackson.

Jackson was competent, the same cannot be said of Trump.

Trump is very competent at getting his way.  And anyway, he's got great people to take care of things.  Really great people.

[David Horn]

(01-14-2017, 10:26 PM)SomeGuy Wrote: It just happened again!  Look, I appreciate the free ride I am apparently getting in your head, but this has been silly for a while.

Trump ≈ <fill in the blank>:

A.) Hitler
B.) Mussolini
C.) Andrew Jackson
D.) Berlusconi
E.) None of the above.

Whaddya think?

I prefer 'similar to'. None of these guys is really a perfect fit, though Berlusconi has the edge.  He's a modern, media derived narcissist; so is Trump.  You can argue political positions, but I don't really see that being nearly as important.  Neither was/is in it to create great change to his respective country.  They both seem to be primarily into self aggrandizement and wealth accumulation.  Anything policy related is almost accidental.

[David Horn]

(01-14-2017, 10:38 PM)Odin Wrote:

(01-14-2017, 05:08 PM)SomeGuy Wrote: Seriously, Trump as Berlusconi, yay or nay?

I dunno, Silvio seemed more competent than Trump, but I'm not Italian. Also, Berlusconi wasn't a tool of a foreign power.

Berlusconi liked to trot-out his latest conquest, and having her less than fully dressed was a plus.  Not exactly a leadership trait, and one he shares with The Donald. A short story from the Globe and Mail.

I agree on the 'foreign power' comment, though it's hard to know if he thought of the Germans as 'foreign'.

[SomeGuy]

(01-15-2017, 12:53 AM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:

(01-14-2017, 11:36 PM)SomeGuy Wrote: Like I said, Rags, not only do I not own a television, I rarely watch videos on the Internet, either.

And the '80s were lame!

1.  I own a TeeVee, but it's my puter monitor. I watch youtube stuff 'cause there's no commercials.

2. The '80's.  I do have to disagree.  They were the home of some of the best music, ever.

What YouTube are you watching?  I get commercials all the time!

[SomeGuy]

(01-15-2017, 10:30 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(01-14-2017, 10:26 PM)SomeGuy Wrote: It just happened again!  Look, I appreciate the free ride I am apparently getting in your head, but this has been silly for a while.

Trump ≈ <fill in the blank>:

A.) Hitler
B.) Mussolini
C.) Andrew Jackson
D.) Berlusconi
E.) None of the above.

Whaddya think?

I prefer 'similar to'. None of these guys is really a perfect fit, though Berlusconi has the edge.  He's a modern, media derived narcissist; so is Trump.  You can argue political positions, but I don't really see that being nearly as important.  Neither was/is in it to create great change to his respective country.  They both seem to be primarily into self aggrandizement and wealth accumulation.  Anything policy related is almost accidental.

Check the symbol again, Dave.  It's not an equals sign.  And I dunno, Trump has been banging on for mercantilist trade policies and against illegal immigration since the '80s.  That would be a big change.  Tax cuts for the rich, admittedly, not so much.

[SomeGuy]

(01-15-2017, 10:39 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(01-14-2017, 10:38 PM)Odin Wrote:

(01-14-2017, 05:08 PM)SomeGuy Wrote: Seriously, Trump as Berlusconi, yay or nay?

I dunno, Silvio seemed more competent than Trump, but I'm not Italian. Also, Berlusconi wasn't a tool of a foreign power.

Berlusconi liked to trot-out his latest conquest, and having her less than fully dressed was a plus.  Not exactly a leadership trait, and one he shares with The Donald. A short story from the Globe and Mail.

I agree on the 'foreign power' comment, though it's hard to know if he thought of the Germans as 'foreign'.

Outside of the ERASMUS set, Europeans ALWAYS think of each other as foreigners.  They've hated each other long before the average man on the street had a real chance to hate Muslims, Africans, or whatever.  They might pretend otherwise these days, but you never have to scratch real deep for the truth to out.

[pbrower2a]

If you want to talk about fornication, then there are JFK and Bill Clinton. But aside from that, those two were fine leaders.