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I Apologize to My Fellow Americans
(01-31-2017, 05:38 PM)Odin Wrote:
(01-31-2017, 05:15 PM)SomeGuy Wrote:
Quote:And now with Steve Bannon we have an actual Neo-Nazi whispering into the ear of an easily manipulated president. There is no way this cannot end badly.


Is he an actual Neo-Nazi?  Do you have a citation on that one?

I can't find the source at the moment (I should have saved the link when it was posted all over Reddit's politics board last weekend, damn it!) but he wants to turn the US into an enthno-nationalist white Christian theocracy and wage a holy war against the Muslim world. He believes all the usual anti-diversity and anti-multiculturalism white nationalist talking points.

I think I remember that talk, if it's the one I was thinking about, and while he had the Christian stuff, he did specifically disavow the racial angle, hoping it would, and I don't quite remember the phrase he used, "wash out"?  "fade out"?  It was not something he was going on about.  He also wanted to rerun the whole New Deal thing, "throw stuff on the wall and see what sticks" was I think the rough phrase used (different interview), too.

So, an ideological guy, not a progressive, but not really a Neo-Nazi, unless we're just using "Neo-Nazi" as an all-purpose slur.

I mean granted, you're a progressive, so anything not explicitly antiwhite* probably sounds like Hitler to you.  Tongue

* I know, I know, you people "mean" equality, but y'all sure "say" some pretty kooky things. Wink
Reply
(01-31-2017, 05:08 PM)Odin Wrote:
(01-30-2017, 07:24 PM)Mikebert Wrote:
(01-29-2017, 02:12 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: You're home is private property. You have the right to decide who enters your home. The right to decide who you're willing to conduct business with in a private setting. The right to decide who you're willing to do work for in a private setting as well. BTW, you have the right to think/believe something is wrong as well.

These rights are limited and always have been. For example the police can enter your home with a warrant. It is a crime to conducting business with certain people, e.g. selling liquor to a minor or knowingly sell weapons to terrorists.

Libertarians have a poor grasp of the truth that property rights are creations of society and only exist in a social context.
Do you value you're property rights? Hint: You don't need to actually own property to actually have property rights in America. I agree that there are clueless people who don't own any property who are clueless enough to vote away their own property rights and support the idea of a progressive government seizing other peoples property as long as they believe that they'll receive a healthy slice of the proceeds. The progressives don't seem to grasp the truth in regards to how bad they would end being decimated by the American society. How did the Democratic party allow itself to get so far out of wack with the values of American society? How large of a social context does America represent to you? I'd say 65,000,000 for sure and 68,000,000 million who are uncertain about their loyalties at the moment.
Reply
(01-31-2017, 07:45 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:
(01-31-2017, 05:08 PM)Odin Wrote:
(01-30-2017, 07:24 PM)Mikebert Wrote:
(01-29-2017, 02:12 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: You're home is private property. You have the right to decide who enters your home. The right to decide who you're willing to conduct business with in a private setting. The right to decide who you're willing to do work for in a private setting as well. BTW, you have the right to think/believe something is wrong as well.

These rights are limited and always have been. For example the police can enter your home with a warrant. It is a crime to conducting business with certain people, e.g. selling liquor to a minor or knowingly sell weapons to terrorists.

Libertarians have a poor grasp of the truth that property rights are creations of society and only exist in a social context.
Do you value you're property rights? Hint: You don't need to actually own property to actually have property rights in America. I agree that there are clueless people who don't own any property who are clueless enough to vote away their own property rights and support the idea of a progressive government seizing other peoples property as long as they believe that they'll receive a healthy slice of the proceeds. The progressives don't seem to grasp the truth in regards to how bad they would end being decimated by the American society. How did the Democratic party allow itself to get so far out of whack with the values of American society? How large of a social context does America represent to you? I'd say 65,000,000 for sure and 68,000,000 million who are uncertain about their loyalties at the moment.


Do people have a stake in property rights if they do not own the property? Sure. If you are a tenant, then you want your landlord to have some security of ownership of the property that you lease.

Does the common man have a stake in class interests of people who treat him like livestock at best and vermin at worst, as in a feudal system? Certainly not!

Democrats won the larger number of votes for President in 2016. But we now have a dictator who sees the common man as livestock at best and vermin at worst -- and his Party, which has a near monopoly on political power in America, largely concurs.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist  but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.


Reply
(01-31-2017, 06:04 PM)SomeGuy Wrote:
(01-31-2017, 05:38 PM)Odin Wrote:
(01-31-2017, 05:15 PM)SomeGuy Wrote:
Quote:And now with Steve Bannon we have an actual Neo-Nazi whispering into the ear of an easily manipulated president. There is no way this cannot end badly.


Is he an actual Neo-Nazi?  Do you have a citation on that one?

I can't find the source at the moment (I should have saved the link when it was posted all over Reddit's politics board last weekend, damn it!) but he wants to turn the US into an enthno-nationalist white Christian theocracy and wage a holy war against the Muslim world. He believes all the usual anti-diversity and anti-multiculturalism white nationalist talking points.

I think I remember that talk, if it's the one I was thinking about, and while he had the Christian stuff, he did specifically disavow the racial angle, hoping it would, and I don't quite remember the phrase he used, "wash out"?  "fade out"?  It was not something he was going on about.  He also wanted to rerun the whole New Deal thing, "throw stuff on the wall and see what sticks" was I think the rough phrase used (different interview), too.

So, an ideological guy, not a progressive, but not really a Neo-Nazi, unless we're just using "Neo-Nazi" as an all-purpose slur.

I mean granted, you're a progressive, so anything not explicitly antiwhite* probably sounds like Hitler to you.  Tongue

* I know, I know, you people "mean" equality, but y'all sure "say" some pretty kooky things. Wink

He's a dangerous, deranged bigot who has the chief ear of the Liar in Chief of the United States. Wow-wee, pretty scary.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive;
Eric M
Reply
(01-31-2017, 06:04 PM)SomeGuy Wrote:
(01-31-2017, 05:38 PM)Odin Wrote:
(01-31-2017, 05:15 PM)SomeGuy Wrote:
Quote:And now with Steve Bannon we have an actual Neo-Nazi whispering into the ear of an easily manipulated president. There is no way this cannot end badly.


Is he an actual Neo-Nazi?  Do you have a citation on that one?

I can't find the source at the moment (I should have saved the link when it was posted all over Reddit's politics board last weekend, damn it!) but he wants to turn the US into an enthno-nationalist white Christian theocracy and wage a holy war against the Muslim world. He believes all the usual anti-diversity and anti-multiculturalism white nationalist talking points.

I think I remember that talk, if it's the one I was thinking about, and while he had the Christian stuff, he did specifically disavow the racial angle, hoping it would, and I don't quite remember the phrase he used, "wash out"?  "fade out"?  It was not something he was going on about.  He also wanted to rerun the whole New Deal thing, "throw stuff on the wall and see what sticks" was I think the rough phrase used (different interview), too.

So, an ideological guy, not a progressive, but not really a Neo-Nazi, unless we're just using "Neo-Nazi" as an all-purpose slur.

I mean granted, you're a progressive, so anything not explicitly antiwhite* probably sounds like Hitler to you.  Tongue

* I know, I know, you people "mean" equality, but y'all sure "say" some pretty kooky things. Wink

If you could post that it that would be great, because I can't seem to find the damn article.
#MakeTheDemocratsGreatAgain
Reply
(01-31-2017, 07:45 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:
(01-31-2017, 05:08 PM)Odin Wrote:
(01-30-2017, 07:24 PM)Mikebert Wrote:
(01-29-2017, 02:12 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: You're home is private property. You have the right to decide who enters your home. The right to decide who you're willing to conduct business with in a private setting. The right to decide who you're willing to do work for in a private setting as well. BTW, you have the right to think/believe something is wrong as well.

These rights are limited and always have been. For example the police can enter your home with a warrant. It is a crime to conducting business with certain people, e.g. selling liquor to a minor or knowingly sell weapons to terrorists.

Libertarians have a poor grasp of the truth that property rights are creations of society and only exist in a social context.
Do you value you're property rights? Hint: You don't need to actually own property to actually have property rights in America. I agree that there are clueless people who don't own any property who are clueless enough to vote away their own property rights and support the idea of a progressive government seizing other peoples property as long as they believe that they'll receive a healthy slice of the proceeds. The progressives don't seem to grasp the truth in regards to how bad they would end being decimated by the American society. How did the Democratic party allow itself to get so far out of wack with the values of American society? How large of a social context does America represent to you? I'd say 65,000,000 for sure and 68,000,000 million who are uncertain about their loyalties at the moment.

Of course I value property rights, I, like any reasonable person, just don't think property rights are absolute. Society has a right to intervene if what you are doing with your property is doing harm to society. This is why we have things like zoning restrictions, building codes, ADA regulations, smoking bans, etc.
#MakeTheDemocratsGreatAgain
Reply
(02-01-2017, 07:55 AM)Odin Wrote:
(01-31-2017, 06:04 PM)SomeGuy Wrote:
(01-31-2017, 05:38 PM)Odin Wrote:
(01-31-2017, 05:15 PM)SomeGuy Wrote:
Quote:And now with Steve Bannon we have an actual Neo-Nazi whispering into the ear of an easily manipulated president. There is no way this cannot end badly.


Is he an actual Neo-Nazi?  Do you have a citation on that one?

I can't find the source at the moment (I should have saved the link when it was posted all over Reddit's politics board last weekend, damn it!) but he wants to turn the US into an enthno-nationalist white Christian theocracy and wage a holy war against the Muslim world. He believes all the usual anti-diversity and anti-multiculturalism white nationalist talking points.

I think I remember that talk, if it's the one I was thinking about, and while he had the Christian stuff, he did specifically disavow the racial angle, hoping it would, and I don't quite remember the phrase he used, "wash out"?  "fade out"?  It was not something he was going on about.  He also wanted to rerun the whole New Deal thing, "throw stuff on the wall and see what sticks" was I think the rough phrase used (different interview), too.

So, an ideological guy, not a progressive, but not really a Neo-Nazi, unless we're just using "Neo-Nazi" as an all-purpose slur.

I mean granted, you're a progressive, so anything not explicitly antiwhite* probably sounds like Hitler to you.  Tongue

* I know, I know, you people "mean" equality, but y'all sure "say" some pretty kooky things. Wink

If you could post that it that would be great, because I can't seem to find the damn article.

You mean this one?*  

*I was right the first time, "washed out" was the term he used.
Reply
(02-01-2017, 10:22 AM)SomeGuy Wrote:
(02-01-2017, 07:55 AM)Odin Wrote:
(01-31-2017, 06:04 PM)SomeGuy Wrote:
(01-31-2017, 05:38 PM)Odin Wrote:
(01-31-2017, 05:15 PM)SomeGuy Wrote: Is he an actual Neo-Nazi?  Do you have a citation on that one?

I can't find the source at the moment (I should have saved the link when it was posted all over Reddit's politics board last weekend, damn it!) but he wants to turn the US into an enthno-nationalist white Christian theocracy and wage a holy war against the Muslim world. He believes all the usual anti-diversity and anti-multiculturalism white nationalist talking points.

I think I remember that talk, if it's the one I was thinking about, and while he had the Christian stuff, he did specifically disavow the racial angle, hoping it would, and I don't quite remember the phrase he used, "wash out"?  "fade out"?  It was not something he was going on about.  He also wanted to rerun the whole New Deal thing, "throw stuff on the wall and see what sticks" was I think the rough phrase used (different interview), too.

So, an ideological guy, not a progressive, but not really a Neo-Nazi, unless we're just using "Neo-Nazi" as an all-purpose slur.

I mean granted, you're a progressive, so anything not explicitly antiwhite* probably sounds like Hitler to you.  Tongue

* I know, I know, you people "mean" equality, but y'all sure "say" some pretty kooky things. Wink

If you could post that it that would be great, because I can't seem to find the damn article.

You mean this one?*  

*I was right the first time, "washed out" was the term he used.

Yes, thanks!

EDIT: As luck would have it I found a very long discussion on Reddit about this exact talk.
#MakeTheDemocratsGreatAgain
Reply
Odin,

That "discussion" looked like garbage.  Not sure why you bothered to link to it.
Reply
(02-01-2017, 08:06 PM)SomeGuy Wrote: Odin,

That "discussion" looked like garbage.  Not sure why you bothered to link to it.

I just wanted to show that many of us outside the Alt-Right bubble find the language Bannon was using positively alarming.
#MakeTheDemocratsGreatAgain
Reply
(02-02-2017, 08:07 AM)Odin Wrote:
(02-01-2017, 08:06 PM)SomeGuy Wrote: Odin,

That "discussion" looked like garbage.  Not sure why you bothered to link to it.

I just wanted to show that many of us outside the Alt-Right bubble find the language Bannon was using positively alarming.

Odin, you people find anyone outside the Progressive Bubble alarming.  Mitt Romney was alarming at the time.  It isn't news to anybody.
Reply
(02-01-2017, 07:59 AM)Odin Wrote: Society has a right to intervene if what you are doing with your property is doing harm to society.
Well, I would actually agree with you on this  in principle.
Reply
(01-31-2017, 05:06 PM)Odin Wrote:
(01-30-2017, 02:51 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote: Nearly 20 years ago, in the throes of Clinton Derangement Syndrome, I would drive a few blocks from the office with my lunch, and park on a quiet street at the edge of the San Francisco Bay salt marshes. I would tune my radio to 560 KSFO and listen to Michael Savage. It must have been around 1998 that I first heard his slogan: "Borders, Language, Culture."

It seemed innocent enough. Obviously, maintaining border control is a good thing. We need customs and immigration officers to maintain orderly processing in of people coming into the country. Language is important - competence in the lingua franca is obviously a key to success. A shared culture helps us to norm on commonly understood and agreed principles of ethics, law and ways of doing business. It's all good.

Unfortunately, demagogues can take these concepts out of context, marry them with resentments held by various identity groups, spin them for political gain, or even, use them to fuel the fires of chaos.

From the seemingly innocent "Borders, Language and Culture" of the late 20th Century we have moved to "your papers please" and God forbid you don't have the correct type of name or national origin.

This is going to go badly. There are now VIPs and high status people caught up in the travel ban, some of them well regarded Resident Aliens. It's one thing to catch Joe Wetback doing a crime and deporting him, it's quite another to tell some advance degreed corporate senior management person they are not allowed to hop on the shuttle to get home to his wife and kids. It is DEPLORABLE.

And now with Steve Bannon we have an actual Neo-Nazi whispering into the ear of an easily manipulated president. There is no way this cannot end badly.

I agree that Bannon is whispering, but Trump is less manipuable than suggestable.  Like Bannon, he likes the narrative, but, in Trump's case, it's all about the impresson he's making.  He's a drama queen.  Get him a tiara.
.
Reply
(01-31-2017, 06:04 PM)SomeGuy Wrote:
(01-31-2017, 05:38 PM)Odin Wrote:
(01-31-2017, 05:15 PM)SomeGuy Wrote:
Quote:And now with Steve Bannon we have an actual Neo-Nazi whispering into the ear of an easily manipulated president. There is no way this cannot end badly.


Is he an actual Neo-Nazi?  Do you have a citation on that one?

I can't find the source at the moment (I should have saved the link when it was posted all over Reddit's politics board last weekend, damn it!) but he wants to turn the US into an enthno-nationalist white Christian theocracy and wage a holy war against the Muslim world. He believes all the usual anti-diversity and anti-multiculturalism white nationalist talking points.

I think I remember that talk, if it's the one I was thinking about, and while he had the Christian stuff, he did specifically disavow the racial angle, hoping it would, and I don't quite remember the phrase he used, "wash out"?  "fade out"?  It was not something he was going on about.  He also wanted to rerun the whole New Deal thing, "throw stuff on the wall and see what sticks" was I think the rough phrase used (different interview), too.

So, an ideological guy, not a progressive, but not really a Neo-Nazi, unless we're just using "Neo-Nazi" as an all-purpose slur.

I mean granted, you're a progressive, so anything not explicitly antiwhite* probably sounds like Hitler to you.  Tongue

* I know, I know, you people "mean" equality, but y'all sure "say" some pretty kooky things. Wink

The stuff Bannon spouts is less telling than what he does.  He's eyeball deep in Citizens United and a founding member of the Tea Party.  I see him more as a quasi-Randian ... out to save the world for all the really great capitalists.
Intelligence is not knowledge and knowledge is not wisdom, but they all play well together.
Reply
(02-03-2017, 10:25 AM)David Horn Wrote:
(01-31-2017, 06:04 PM)SomeGuy Wrote:
(01-31-2017, 05:38 PM)Odin Wrote:
(01-31-2017, 05:15 PM)SomeGuy Wrote:
Quote:And now with Steve Bannon we have an actual Neo-Nazi whispering into the ear of an easily manipulated president. There is no way this cannot end badly.


Is he an actual Neo-Nazi?  Do you have a citation on that one?

I can't find the source at the moment (I should have saved the link when it was posted all over Reddit's politics board last weekend, damn it!) but he wants to turn the US into an enthno-nationalist white Christian theocracy and wage a holy war against the Muslim world. He believes all the usual anti-diversity and anti-multiculturalism white nationalist talking points.

I think I remember that talk, if it's the one I was thinking about, and while he had the Christian stuff, he did specifically disavow the racial angle, hoping it would, and I don't quite remember the phrase he used, "wash out"?  "fade out"?  It was not something he was going on about.  He also wanted to rerun the whole New Deal thing, "throw stuff on the wall and see what sticks" was I think the rough phrase used (different interview), too.

So, an ideological guy, not a progressive, but not really a Neo-Nazi, unless we're just using "Neo-Nazi" as an all-purpose slur.

I mean granted, you're a progressive, so anything not explicitly antiwhite* probably sounds like Hitler to you.  Tongue

* I know, I know, you people "mean" equality, but y'all sure "say" some pretty kooky things. Wink

The stuff Bannon spouts is less telling than what he does.  He's eyeball deep in Citizens United and a founding member of the Tea Party.  I see him more as a quasi-Randian ... out to save the world for all the really great capitalists.

Is your "seeing" of him based on something other than your own preconceptions?  This isn't even a rhetorical question, I am asking what you are basing this on.
Reply
(02-03-2017, 10:33 AM)SomeGuy Wrote:
(02-03-2017, 10:25 AM)David Horn Wrote: The stuff Bannon spouts is less telling than what he does.  He's eyeball deep in Citizens United and a founding member of the Tea Party.  I see him more as a quasi-Randian ... out to save the world for all the really great capitalists.

Is your "seeing" of him based on something other than your own preconceptions?  This isn't even a rhetorical question, I am asking what you are basing this on.

His alliances have all been inside the business community, but only the more student parts.  All his film work was funded that way, with his premier treatise (Generation Zero) being a Citizen's United Production.  He makes alliances with all the alt-right elements, but he claims limited interest in them.  I see that as forming alliances of covenience.

He sayshe wanted to trigger a final confligration that will destroy the current system, but he shows no interest in a race war.  That reads $$$$$ to me
Intelligence is not knowledge and knowledge is not wisdom, but they all play well together.
Reply
Quote:His alliances have all been inside the business community, but only the more student parts.


The "more student parts" of "the business community"?  Could I get that in English, please?

Quote:He makes alliances with all the alt-right elements, but he claims limited interest in them.

Equivocation.  The phrase "alt-right" had/has more than one meaning, particularly at the time he said it.

Quote:He sayshe wanted to trigger a final confligration that will destroy the current system, but he shows no interest in a race war.  That reads $$$$$ to me

False dichotomy.  Either he wants a race war or he's only interested in money?  Really?  Those are the only two possible motivations?

Also, did you type this last post with mittens on or something?
Reply
(02-03-2017, 04:08 PM)SomeGuy Wrote:
Quote:His alliances have all been inside the business community, but only the more strident parts.

The "more student parts" of "the business community"?  Could I get that in English, please?

Quote:He makes alliances with all the alt-right elements, but he claims limited interest in them.

Equivocation.  The phrase "alt-right" had/has more than one meaning, particularly at the time he said it.

Quote:He said he wanted to trigger a final confligration that will destroy the current system, but he shows no interest in a race war.  That reads $$$$$ to me

False dichotomy.  Either he wants a race war or he's only interested in money?  Really?  Those are the only two possible motivations?

Also, did you type this last post with mittens on or something?

Posting on a tablet with aggressive spell check leads to the mess above.  I've tried to fix it.  Let's see how it arrives on the forum.

Now your comments:
  • If you want an "army" of blindly-dedicated soldiers, why not select from what's already available?  What's available is mostly on the fringe.  I have no doubt that Bannon is a nationalist -- perhaps a hyper-nationalist.  I just don't see the evidence that he's directly aligned with the neo-Nazis or race-crusaders.  On the other hand, they're already up for the fight.  I agree I'm reading between the lines a bit.
  • So let's look at Bannon.  He took a turn through Goldman Sachs, and his only complaint was greed.  That reads right out of Atlas Shrugged.  His goal reads like the end of the book.  Draw your own conclusions.
Intelligence is not knowledge and knowledge is not wisdom, but they all play well together.
Reply
(02-04-2017, 08:14 AM)David Horn Wrote:
(02-03-2017, 04:08 PM)SomeGuy Wrote:
Quote:His alliances have all been inside the business community, but only the more strident parts.

The "more student parts" of "the business community"?  Could I get that in English, please?

Quote:He makes alliances with all the alt-right elements, but he claims limited interest in them.

Equivocation.  The phrase "alt-right" had/has more than one meaning, particularly at the time he said it.

Quote:He said he wanted to trigger a final confligration that will destroy the current system, but he shows no interest in a race war.  That reads $$$$$ to me

False dichotomy.  Either he wants a race war or he's only interested in money?  Really?  Those are the only two possible motivations?

Also, did you type this last post with mittens on or something?

Posting on a tablet with aggressive spell check leads to the mess above.  I've tried to fix it.  Let's see how it arrives on the forum.

Now your comments:
  • If you want an "army" of blindly-dedicated soldiers, why not select from what's already available?  What's available is mostly on the fringe.  I have no doubt that Bannon is a nationalist -- perhaps a hyper-nationalist.  I just don't see the evidence that he's directly aligned with the neo-Nazis or race-crusaders.  On the other hand, they're already up for the fight.  I agree I'm reading between the lines a bit.
  • So let's look at Bannon.  He took a turn through Goldman Sachs, and his only complaint was greed.  That reads right out of Atlas Shrugged.  His goal reads like the end of the book.  Draw your own conclusions.

I think we've gone a little bit further than reading between the lines.  You appear to have read a whole essay into the margins of a couple of sentences.
Reply
(05-23-2017, 03:49 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote: This is classic Alt Right. Facts, who needs them? Facts are a lib conspiracy, I heard it on Fox News:

http://money.cnn.com/2017/05/23/media/fo...ich-story/


'Fox News on Tuesday removed from its site an inaccurate story that peddled a conspiracy theory about the murder of Democratic National Committee Staffer Seth Rich. The story had remained online for almost a week after CNN pointed out basic problems with its assertions.'

It's too late, easily manipulated fools like Galen have already been taken in by this blatant propaganda, nothing, not even pleas from Rich's own family, is going to stop it.
#MakeTheDemocratsGreatAgain
Reply


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