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The Maelstrom of Violence
(07-16-2017, 08:19 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:
(07-16-2017, 02:51 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: The mainstream opinion is that a State that forces a massive empowerment of economic elites by cutting taxes on the economic elites with a corresponding abolition of air to the poor...

Is somebody denying air to the poor via strangulation?  Wink  Darn these spell checkers...

Yes, tpyos happen to us all. Of course it is aid. Spell-check is limited in its logic.

A society that casts off people to hunger once it no longer needs them is sick.

Quote:More seriously, good post.  I may get back to it.


Thank you.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist  but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.


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(07-20-2017, 02:06 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:
(07-16-2017, 08:19 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:
(07-16-2017, 02:51 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: The mainstream opinion is that a State that forces a massive empowerment of economic elites by cutting taxes on the economic elites with a corresponding abolition of air to the poor...

Is somebody denying air to the poor via strangulation?  Wink  Darn these spell checkers...

Yes, tpyos happen to us all. Of course it is aid. Spell-check is limited in its logic.

A society that casts off people to hunger once it no longer needs them is sick.

Quote:More seriously, good post.  I may get back to it.


Thank you.

Of course, it IS abolition of air too. Breathable air at least.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive;
Eric M
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Protesters clash in Virginia city on eve of white nationalist rally
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(08-12-2017, 08:42 AM)gabrielle Wrote: Protesters clash in Virginia city on eve of white nationalist rally

The timing of the alt-right violence seems a bit strange to me.  All it takes is a few dozen to hit national headlines, yet it has been erratic rather than continuous.
That this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom, and that government of the people, by the people, for the people shall not perish from the earth.
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[Image: 75d4a14daf3aa7a0eabcfd5341b3eb4b465e3b17...=800&h=720]
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist  but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.


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On the man arrested for driving his car into the crowd of counter-protesters against the white racists assembled in Charlottesville, Virginia:


Quote:“I thought it had something to do with [President Donald] Trump. Trump’s not a white supremacist,” said his mother, Samantha Bloom.

Bloom, who said her son recently moved to Ohio from Kentucky, told the Toledo Blade that she didn’t speak with her son about his political views.

One of Fields’ former high school teachers, who spoke with Cincinnati TV station WCPO, said he remembered Fields as having “radical views” that made him stand out.

“He had some very radical views on race, he was very infatuated with Nazis, with Adolf Hitler,” Derek Weimer of Cooper High School in Boone County, Kentucky, told the station.

“He was pretty infatuated with that stuff. His freshman year he had an issue with that that was raised,” Weimer added, without going into more detail.

Fields was arrested and charged with one count of second-degree murder, three counts of malicious wounding and one count related to leaving the scene of the wreck.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/char...247274ff48
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist  but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.


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This is not acceptable.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive;
Eric M
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A murder victim (at least as I understand the circumstances) of the Alt Right:

RUCKERSVILLE, Va. ― The woman who was killed in Charlottesville, Virginia, on Saturday when a car plowed into a group of anti-racist demonstrators was a 32-year-old paralegal who was passionate about social justice.


Quote:Heather Heyer’s mother, Susan Bro, told HuffPost that her daughter attended Saturday’s rally because she “was about bringing an end to injustice.”

“Heather was not about hate, Heather was about stopping hatred,” Bro said through tears. “Heather was about bringing an end to injustice. I don’t want her death to be a focus for more hatred, I want her death to be a rallying cry for justice and equality and fairness and compassion.”

According to The Associated Press, Heyer was struck as she was crossing the street. At least 19 others were injured in the crash, some critically, said police.

20-year-old James Fields Jr. was arrested over the incident and charged with murder. Fields was one of thousands of members of the so-called “alt right” who were in Charlottesville attending Saturday’s “Unite The Right” march. The rally became violent after the white supremacists were confronted by anti-fascist groups.

Virginia Gov. Terry McAuliffe (D) tweeted condolences to Heyer’s family and said that “her bravery should inspire us all to come together.”

In a few months I expect the legal process to have assembled a case and a jury in the event that there is no plea bargain.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist  but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.


Reply
(08-12-2017, 01:21 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:
(08-12-2017, 08:42 AM)gabrielle Wrote: Protesters clash in Virginia city on eve of white nationalist rally

The timing of the alt-right violence seems a bit strange to me.  All it takes is a few dozen to hit national headlines, yet it has been erratic rather than continuous.

There is a reason for that.  Because according to the Lugenpresse that masquerades as the Main Stream Media (MSM) everyone slightly to the right of Bill Clinton is Adolf Hitler.  Unfortunately these clowns don't seem to realize that if you start labeling everyone a nazi the real nazis eventually show up, and when they do, they show up with a far larger mass than they otherwise would have.

In short I strongly suspect that the US is setting itself up for a civil war, which fits into the two stroke internal/external 4T pattern.
It really is all mathematics.

Turn on to Daddy, Tune in to Nationalism, Drop out of UN/NATO/WTO/TPP/NAFTA/CAFTA Globalism.
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(08-13-2017, 11:03 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: On the man arrested for driving his car into the crowd of counter-protesters against the white racists assembled in Charlottesville, Virginia:


Quote:“I thought it had something to do with [President Donald] Trump. Trump’s not a white supremacist,” said his mother, Samantha Bloom.

Bloom, who said her son recently moved to Ohio from Kentucky, told the Toledo Blade that she didn’t speak with her son about his political views.

One of Fields’ former high school teachers, who spoke with Cincinnati TV station WCPO, said he remembered Fields as having “radical views” that made him stand out.

“He had some very radical views on race, he was very infatuated with Nazis, with Adolf Hitler,” Derek Weimer of Cooper High School in Boone County, Kentucky, told the station.

“He was pretty infatuated with that stuff. His freshman year he had an issue with that that was raised,” Weimer added, without going into more detail.

Fields was arrested and charged with one count of second-degree murder, three counts of malicious wounding and one count related to leaving the scene of the wreck.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/char...247274ff48

The article you linked to is extremely light on substance.  According their argument, I a gay, black man would be a neo-nazi because I recognize that whites and blacks are in fact different on very deep and fundamental levels (seriously there is a reason I prefer the company of whites) and have also read Mein Kampf (in the original German, which like Marx is the only way to read it--so much is lost in translation).
It really is all mathematics.

Turn on to Daddy, Tune in to Nationalism, Drop out of UN/NATO/WTO/TPP/NAFTA/CAFTA Globalism.
Reply
(08-12-2017, 01:21 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:
(08-12-2017, 08:42 AM)gabrielle Wrote: Protesters clash in Virginia city on eve of white nationalist rally

The timing of the alt-right violence seems a bit strange to me.  All it takes is a few dozen to hit national headlines, yet it has been erratic rather than continuous.

That's because while the alt right is large, very few of them are extremists such as the ones who conducted this rally.  And even then, violence requires a counterprotest.  Basically, these white nationalists are even more of a fringe group than Occupy Wall Street or the Black Lives Matter militants were.

However, Kinser correctly notes that the tremendously overinflated news coverage they get works to their advantage.  The publicity is a great recruiting tool for them.
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(08-13-2017, 05:29 PM)Warren Dew Wrote:
(08-12-2017, 01:21 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:
(08-12-2017, 08:42 AM)gabrielle Wrote: Protesters clash in Virginia city on eve of white nationalist rally

The timing of the alt-right violence seems a bit strange to me.  All it takes is a few dozen to hit national headlines, yet it has been erratic rather than continuous.

That's because while the alt right is large, very few of them are extremists such as the ones who conducted this rally.  And even then, violence requires a counterprotest.  Basically, these white nationalists are even more of a fringe group than Occupy Wall Street or the Black Lives Matter militants were.

However, Kinser correctly notes that the tremendously overinflated news coverage they get works to their advantage.  The publicity is a great recruiting tool for them.

I don't know if I should consider it a compliment that you agreed while completely missing the point.  My point was by yelling Nazi at everyone who is slightly to the right of center, those on the right have nothing to lose by going full Nazi.  The tactic that what passes for a Left is using is not one of rational discourse, rather, it is one of shutting down all discourse, especially with those most likely to desire discourse.

I've made an observation about societies in my time on this planet:  Those societies which discuss politics in a civil and rational way may have shouting matches at worst; those societies where discussing politics in a civil and rational way is impossible inevitably result in people shooting each other over politics.
It really is all mathematics.

Turn on to Daddy, Tune in to Nationalism, Drop out of UN/NATO/WTO/TPP/NAFTA/CAFTA Globalism.
Reply
(08-13-2017, 04:26 PM)Kinser79 Wrote:
(08-13-2017, 11:03 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: On the man arrested for driving his car into the crowd of counter-protesters against the white racists assembled in Charlottesville, Virginia:


Quote:“I thought it had something to do with [President Donald] Trump. Trump’s not a white supremacist,” said his mother, Samantha Bloom.

Bloom, who said her son recently moved to Ohio from Kentucky, told the Toledo Blade that she didn’t speak with her son about his political views.

One of Fields’ former high school teachers, who spoke with Cincinnati TV station WCPO, said he remembered Fields as having “radical views” that made him stand out.

“He had some very radical views on race, he was very infatuated with Nazis, with Adolf Hitler,” Derek Weimer of Cooper High School in Boone County, Kentucky, told the station.

“He was pretty infatuated with that stuff. His freshman year he had an issue with that that was raised,” Weimer added, without going into more detail.

Fields was arrested and charged with one count of second-degree murder, three counts of malicious wounding and one count related to leaving the scene of the wreck.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/char...247274ff48

The article you linked to is extremely light on substance.  According their argument, I a gay, black man would be a neo-nazi because I recognize that whites and blacks are in fact different on very deep and fundamental levels (seriously there is a reason I prefer the company of whites) and have also read Mein Kampf (in the original German, which like Marx is the only way to read it--so much is lost in translation).

It's from the Huffington Post, which is not good for deep coverage. Deeper coverage is usually behind a paywall.

Considering what the Nazis did to the Rhineland Bastards (children of French African soldiers and German mothers), it's hard to see how anyone black could have any fascination with Nazis except as abomination.

Evil creates its own cause for fascination, which explains why there is a plethora of books and video on the Nazis. 

Someone infatuated with Nazis has a problem. Nazism is about as pure sociopathy in politics as can exist. Commies may have killed more people, but at least they have the ideal of a more equitable society and a rush through economic development that market-constrained capitalism supposedly cannot offer. Nazism is slavery and genocide.

Mein Kampf is awful reading, and the one part that is interesting (on propaganda) proves to be near-plagiarism. I've read it, but most of it has gone into my memory hole. Not very useful -- bad history, pseudo-science, and insights into an unsavory person. This is Charles Manson with more success.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist  but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.


Reply
(08-13-2017, 06:19 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: I don't know if I should consider it a compliment that you agreed while completely missing the point.  My point was by yelling Nazi at everyone who is slightly to the right of center, those on the right have nothing to lose by going full Nazi.  The tactic that what passes for a Left is using is not one of rational discourse, rather, it is one of shutting down all discourse, especially with those most likely to desire discourse.

And anyone slightly left of center can be regarded as a communist... in a bad way... as if it were an insult or someone's thinking flawed. Wink That style of juvenile strawman thinking is so commonplace and boring that I don't consider it much worth paying attention to.
That this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom, and that government of the people, by the people, for the people shall not perish from the earth.
Reply
(08-13-2017, 08:07 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: It's from the Huffington Post, which is not good for deep coverage. Deeper coverage is usually behind a paywall.

It is Huffington Post which means it isn't even journalism. I take a daily gander at HuffPo to know what the enemy thinks. It is degenerating rapidly.

Quote:Considering what the Nazis did to the Rhineland Bastards (children of French African soldiers and German mothers), it's hard to see how anyone black could have any fascination with Nazis except as abomination.

Studying history is a reason in and of itself. As I pointed out their argumentation was that merely reading about German National Socialism (which is what the real name of the whole movement was) by any source not approved by (((You Know Who))) equates them to being a "Nazi".

Quote:Evil creates its own cause for fascination, which explains why there is a plethora of books and video on the Nazis. 

Evil is a matter of perspective.

Quote:Someone infatuated with Nazis has a problem. Nazism is about as pure sociopathy in politics as can exist. Commies may have killed more people, but at least they have the ideal of a more equitable society and a rush through economic development that market-constrained capitalism supposedly cannot offer. Nazism is slavery and genocide.

Depends on what (((infatuated))) means. As I pointed out, according to the theory expressed by the left these days merely watching a run of the mill WW2 documentary on the Third Reich is a National Socialist. As for whether Hitler or Stalin is worse, I would say they are both equally bad. Marxist Socialism is INTERNATIONAL SOCIALISM, whereas Nazism is NATIONAL SOCIALISM. Both have the socialist component and given the choice between robber barons or an over grown state which inevitably runs death camps (after all where do you think the Germans got the idea--their execution was just more efficient) I'll take the robber barons any day. The dead don't buy products so at least the robber baron has no interest in the direct extermination of races or classes.

Quote:Mein Kampf is awful reading, and the one part that is interesting (on propaganda) proves to be near-plagiarism. I've read it, but most of it has gone into my memory hole. Not very useful -- bad history, pseudo-science, and insights into an unsavory person. This is Charles Manson with more success.

I would say that a great deal of National Socialism is flawed. It is flawed for the same reason that Marxism is flawed. Marxism is based on faulty sociology. National Socialism is based on faulty biology.

As for reading Mein Kampf I didn't read it because it is a literary masterpiece. Quite honestly it is poorly written, though how much of that is due to Hitler, and how much is due to Hess I've yet to determine. It is often said that Hitler wrote the book, yet he did not. He dictated it, which is evident if you read it in the German (which from previous interactions with you I know is a language you neither read nor speak).

As for comparing Hitler to Manson...I would say the primary difference was Hitler just happened to be in the right place at the right time. Both are/were sociopaths.
It really is all mathematics.

Turn on to Daddy, Tune in to Nationalism, Drop out of UN/NATO/WTO/TPP/NAFTA/CAFTA Globalism.
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(08-13-2017, 10:53 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:
(08-13-2017, 06:19 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: I don't know if I should consider it a compliment that you agreed while completely missing the point.  My point was by yelling Nazi at everyone who is slightly to the right of center, those on the right have nothing to lose by going full Nazi.  The tactic that what passes for a Left is using is not one of rational discourse, rather, it is one of shutting down all discourse, especially with those most likely to desire discourse.

And anyone slightly left of center can be regarded as a communist...  in a bad way...  as if it were an insult or someone's thinking flawed.  Wink  That style of juvenile strawman thinking is so commonplace and boring that I don't consider it much worth paying attention to.

As someone who actually was for a long time an actual communist, I naturally do not take that line of un-reason.  I know the difference between an Antifa commutard (seriously they are communists but have the ideological understanding of a toddler--M-Ls typically use them as useful idiots to be discarded at the first opportunity), and your run of the mill liberal.

The Left, left me, not the other way round. Big Grin

The problem is that we're clearly in a 4T and in a 4T the center never holds.  I would say that like summoning a demon by saying its name, the left is busy doing that now with fascism.  Fascism can only arise if there is a credible threat of communism.
It really is all mathematics.

Turn on to Daddy, Tune in to Nationalism, Drop out of UN/NATO/WTO/TPP/NAFTA/CAFTA Globalism.
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Neo-nazis and white supremacists are celebrating Trump's remarks about the Charlottesville riots
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(08-14-2017, 01:05 AM)Kinser79 Wrote: The problem is that we're clearly in a 4T and in a 4T the center never holds.  I would say that like summoning a demon by saying its name, the left is busy doing that now with fascism.  Fascism can only arise if there is a credible threat of communism.

I'm dubious that we're in a true 4T.  We haven't had a regeneracy, a clear decisive shift into new values and trial and error mode.  We're in see saw mode.  That puts as more in 3T stagnation and disagreement than in a 4T decisive culture shift.  Of course, there is a partisan tendency to see any brief moment on the top of the see saw ride as some sort of permanent thing.  Hillary will win.  Trump will suddenly develop people skills.  At this point, I'm not holding my breath.

I have a feeling that some of the Alt Right people wearing Nazi or Klan regalia and praising Hitler are doing so because it makes people jump and go all irrational.  This doesn't imply that the violent folks don't often take it more seriously.  I remember my old high school American History class, where we had an extended discussion of an awakening race riot held in a nearby town.  We actually had eyewitnesses, participants, two close friends, ladies, both ever so ready to say how much fun they had throwing punches and scratching at folks with opposite pigmentation.  In the end, they got in the car together and drove home.

One girl was black, the other white.  They both laughed as they told their tales the next day.  When you are young, violence can seem like fun.  When people die, it's been taken further than that point, in my opinion at least.

Agreed, the press blows their coverage up way out of proportion.

While there is admittedly a strong streak of anti communism in classic mid 20th century fascism, there are many forms of autocratic racist dictatorship.  Saddam might stand as an example of one who took the authoritarian way of thought and applied it to totally non-European cultures.  I see Hitler, Stalin and Mao as creating authoritarian structures, alike in too many ways, the left right distinction lost behind a commitment to Agricultural Age hierarchy, authority and intimidation.  I could see the current owners of the means of production using fascist ideas and values without communists hiding under every bed.
That this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom, and that government of the people, by the people, for the people shall not perish from the earth.
Reply
(08-14-2017, 02:31 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:
(08-14-2017, 01:05 AM)Kinser79 Wrote: The problem is that we're clearly in a 4T and in a 4T the center never holds.  I would say that like summoning a demon by saying its name, the left is busy doing that now with fascism.  Fascism can only arise if there is a credible threat of communism.

I'm dubious that we're in a true 4T.  We haven't had a regeneracy, a clear decisive shift into new values and trial and error mode.  We're in see saw mode.  That puts as more in 3T stagnation and disagreement than in a 4T decisive culture shift.  Of course, there is a partisan tendency to see any brief moment on the top of the see saw ride as some sort of permanent thing.  Hillary will win.  Trump will suddenly develop people skills.  At this point, I'm not holding my breath.

One indication of a Regeneracy is the recognition that 'business-as-usual' no longer holds promise. Maintaining the status quo becomes either unsustainable or absurd.


Quote:I have a feeling that some of the Alt Right people wearing Nazi or Klan regalia and praising Hitler are doing so because it makes people jump and go all irrational.  This doesn't imply that the violent folks don't often take it more seriously.  I remember my old high school American History class, where we had an extended discussion of an awakening race riot held in a nearby town.  We actually had eyewitnesses, participants, two close friends, ladies, both ever so ready to say how much fun they had throwing punches and scratching at folks with opposite pigmentation.  In the end, they got in the car together and drove home.

One girl was black, the other white.  They both laughed as they told their tales the next day.  When you are young, violence can seem like fun.  When people die, it's been taken further than that point, in my opinion at least.

Nazism and Ku Kluxism are offensive, absurd, and above all else evil.  But throwing punches or stones in a race riot might be perversely fun for a short time, but such gets old fast. 'Race riots' as in Detroit fifty years ago died out on their own.  That was in an Awakening Era. When the violence becomes more sophisticated and more protracted because the Establishment condones or promotes it, then we have something more like the scenario of the break-up of Yugoslavia, which is a dangerous 4T event.



Quote:Agreed, the press blows their coverage up way out of proportion.

Newspaper owners want to sell newspapers. Panic is profit.

Quote:While there is admittedly a strong streak of anti communism in classic mid 20th century fascism, there are many forms of autocratic racist dictatorship.  Saddam might stand as an example of one to took the authoritarian way of thought and applied it to totally non-European cultures.  I see Hitler, Stalin and Mao as creating authoritarian structures, alike in too many ways, the left right distinction lost behind a commitment to Agricultural Age hierarchy, authority and intimidation.  I could see the current owners of the means of production using fascist ideas and values without communists hiding under every bed.

Saddam Hussein repressed Communists as he repressed any rivals. In the 1970s he arrested Iraqi Communists, put them on show trials, and arranged for them to be convicted and hanged -- probably in an attempt to elicit respect from the West. It impressed few in the West except to show the brutality of the regime. His regime had many characteristics of fascism.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist  but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.


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(08-13-2017, 06:19 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: I don't know if I should consider it a compliment that you agreed while completely missing the point.  My point was by yelling Nazi at everyone who is slightly to the right of center, those on the right have nothing to lose by going full Nazi.  The tactic that what passes for a Left is using is not one of rational discourse, rather, it is one of shutting down all discourse, especially with those most likely to desire discourse.
What about the "feminiazis?"
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