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[quote pid='22852' dateline='1489193604']
Maybe...I can't keep statistics straight in my head as well as I used to. Part of having a teenager in the house. If it weren't just a natural progression of development I'd swear he was involved in a Russian Plot to drive me nuts.
[/quote]
Check with Alphabet, I think he has a list of the major operatives.
Quote:In any event the fact is that I'm running into loads of people coming from northern rust belt states particularly IL, WI and MN down here. MI and OH are represented too but to a smaller degree. Strangely IN doesn't seem to make the mix....Pence's policies perhaps?
Pence specifically? I doubt it. People have been moving out of the Rust Belt for decades now, the winters suck and the big factory jobs that used to anchor people there have been evaporating. Progressive policies, as people like Thomas Frank (or the guys I worked with when I worked for Ecolab in NYC) like to point out, are not very favorable to those who are neither UMC and up or fairly poor. Most of the "blue" states have been haemmorhaging native born (black and white) people for years.
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(03-10-2017, 09:09 PM)SomeGuy Wrote: [quote pid='22852' dateline='1489193604']
Maybe...I can't keep statistics straight in my head as well as I used to. Part of having a teenager in the house. If it weren't just a natural progression of development I'd swear he was involved in a Russian Plot to drive me nuts.
Check with Alphabet, I think he has a list of the major operatives.[/quote]
Nah..I'll just as Vlad next time I go to Wally World for the weekly groceries. Since I switched over to traditional wet shaving I've been having to order toiletries online though. My beard is changing and I was starting to get ingrown hairs. Damn you middle age!
Quote:In any event the fact is that I'm running into loads of people coming from northern rust belt states particularly IL, WI and MN down here. MI and OH are represented too but to a smaller degree. Strangely IN doesn't seem to make the mix....Pence's policies perhaps?
Pence specifically? I doubt it. People have been moving out of the Rust Belt for decades now, the winters suck and the big factory jobs that used to anchor people there have been evaporating. Progressive policies, as people like Thomas Frank (or the guys I worked with when I worked for Ecolab in NYC) like to point out, are not very favorable to those who are neither UMC and up or fairly poor. Most of the "blue" states have been haemmorhaging native born (black and white) people for years.
[/quote]
All of that is true, but it just makes me wonder why I'm not seeing IN specifically. Or KY for that matter. Though to be fair KY is a mostly red state and their Blues seem to be hold overs from a bygone era.
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I dunno, deindustrialization is fairly recent in KY, and the weather is better. Culturally, southern IN and OH are basically extensions of the Upland South, too. Settlement there came through the Ohio River valley. You can still hear the difference between the two, and both Indianapolis and Columbus have neighborhoods on their south sides that are for all intents and purposes redneck immigrant enclaves.
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Well I've lived in IL, IN and KY myself and yes it pretty much is exactly like the upper South. KY especially.
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(03-10-2017, 08:39 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: Since we're talking about a hypothetical "Calexit" snowflake..I'm taking liberties with Governor Moonbeam. But the man is just a few shades lighter than a Maoist. Former commie so I should know.
You are not wrong about this. Marxism was all the rage among the Boomers back in the seventies during Moonbeam's first two terms before they started getting religion in the eighties. Might be fun to watch Californians have to eat rats like the Venezuelans do now.
Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard. -- H.L. Mencken
If one rejects laissez faire on account of man's fallibility and moral weakness, one must for the same reason also reject every kind of government action. -- Ludwig von Mises
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(03-11-2017, 05:48 AM)Galen Wrote: (03-10-2017, 08:39 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: Since we're talking about a hypothetical "Calexit" snowflake..I'm taking liberties with Governor Moonbeam. But the man is just a few shades lighter than a Maoist. Former commie so I should know.
You are not wrong about this. Marxism was all the rage among the Boomers back in the seventies during Moonbeam's first two terms before they started getting religion in the eighties. Might be fun to watch Californians have to eat rats like the Venezuelans do now.
It would but after they leave the Union and before the inevitable collapse, because I'm fairly certain they don't have a single politician who has the mass murderous inclinations of Mao or Stalin, we'd have to be sure to wall them off and revoke their passports.
That said I give CA about a week before they have rolling blackouts again after a Calexit. What I think people like Alphabet don't realize is the veneer of civilization is only millimeters thick. Prolonged absence of power, and food shortages would lead to riots and chaos and lastly famine.
I won't mention Eric the Obtuse here, I kind of don't expect him to get it. His contact with reality is sporatic at the best of times. I think he smoked too much LDS or whatever in the 60s.
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All these delusions about "inevitable collapse" are hilarious. Social Democracy is the most successful social system in history.
#MakeTheDemocratsGreatAgain
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(03-11-2017, 09:23 AM)Odin Wrote: All these delusions about "inevitable collapse" are hilarious. Social Democracy is the most successful social system in history.
Not really...
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(03-11-2017, 09:23 AM)Odin Wrote: All these delusions about "inevitable collapse" are hilarious. Social Democracy is the most successful social system in history.
Let's see how long California lasts after they secede. As near as I can tell they have a pension crisis approaching the scale of what is facing Illinois. It will be interesting to see how Moonbeam handles that without the Feds to bail his ass out.
Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard. -- H.L. Mencken
If one rejects laissez faire on account of man's fallibility and moral weakness, one must for the same reason also reject every kind of government action. -- Ludwig von Mises
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03-11-2017, 10:04 AM
(This post was last modified: 03-11-2017, 10:05 AM by Kinser79.)
(03-11-2017, 09:56 AM)Galen Wrote: (03-11-2017, 09:23 AM)Odin Wrote: All these delusions about "inevitable collapse" are hilarious. Social Democracy is the most successful social system in history.
Let's see how long California lasts after they secede. As near as I can tell they have a pension crisis approaching the scale of what is facing Illinois. It will be interesting to see how Moonbeam handles that without the Feds to bail his ass out.
Well theoretically he could deal with it by simply printing currency (cause sovereign states just happen to have that super power) but eventually the hidden tax of inflation would start a cycle of eating its own tail and eventually there would be collapse.
It should be noted that Mugabe tried that....Zimbawe now uses a combination of RMB, Yen, Euro, Pounds and USD.
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(03-11-2017, 10:04 AM)Kinser79 Wrote: (03-11-2017, 09:56 AM)Galen Wrote: (03-11-2017, 09:23 AM)Odin Wrote: All these delusions about "inevitable collapse" are hilarious. Social Democracy is the most successful social system in history.
Let's see how long California lasts after they secede. As near as I can tell they have a pension crisis approaching the scale of what is facing Illinois. It will be interesting to see how Moonbeam handles that without the Feds to bail his ass out.
Well theoretically he could deal with it by simply printing currency (cause sovereign states just happen to have that super power) but eventually the hidden tax of inflation would start a cycle of eating its own tail and eventually there would be collapse.
It should be noted that Mugabe tried that....Zimbawe now uses a combination of RMB, Yen, Euro, Pounds and USD.
There is a lesson there but it seems likely that Eric the Obtuse and Odin will miss it.
Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard. -- H.L. Mencken
If one rejects laissez faire on account of man's fallibility and moral weakness, one must for the same reason also reject every kind of government action. -- Ludwig von Mises
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Ah yes, the usual "HYPERINFLATION IS COMING, THE END IS NEAR FOR EVIL STATIST COLLECTIVISM" predictions that never pan out. 
#MakeTheDemocratsGreatAgain
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(03-11-2017, 10:54 AM)Odin Wrote: Ah yes, the usual "HYPERINFLATION IS COMING, THE END IS NEAR FOR EVIL STATIST COLLECTIVISM" predictions that never pan out.
Can you name me one historical fiat currency that hasn't collapsed?
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(03-11-2017, 11:12 AM)nihilist moron Wrote: Someone born in 1979 has not yet reached middle age. Don't be in a hurry to get there.
California will be screwed on their own as soon as The Big One hits. Homeowners insurance doesn't cover earthquakes.
Middle aged or not I feel middle aged. Probably because my childhood was spent being the adult in the house thanks to Boomer parents who wouldn't get their shit together. I'm firmly convinced I'd be in prison were it not for a combination of my grandparents and the Navy.
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People are still forgetting that the Colorado River isn't part of California, that California's electrical grid is not self-contained, and that to be honest I doubt most of the Central Valley would be all that thrilled to be leaving the US, either. Setting up a new currency and having it accepted as legal tender is another non-trivial task, as is establish formal relations with other countries, taking over previously federal functions, etc.
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03-11-2017, 04:01 PM
(This post was last modified: 03-11-2017, 04:03 PM by Eric the Green.)
It's complicated, but the Colorado River borders CA, and leaving the union does not mean arrangements and trade cannot be made with neighboring countries. And we have plenty of sunshine, and what we also have that red states don't is political will. That is a CA renewable resource, and it's all we need to make the energy transition; period.
CA wouldn't be screwed if the earthquake hits. Remember we pay out more than we get from the Feds. We'll have more money for our own CEMA.
And I think if the Gophers continue to dominate and screw up our country with their libertarian-economics and traditionalist bullshit, there will be more sane states leaving that will support each other and probably join together.
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(03-11-2017, 04:01 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: It's complicated, but the Colorado River borders CA, and leaving the union does not mean arrangements and trade cannot be made with neighboring countries.
Oh yes, Eric, I am certain that should things come to the point where people decide that they can no longer live in the same country together and thus dissolve over two centuries of Union, they will nonetheless be sure to make certain that all formerly shared assets and resources will be equitably divided in such a way that nobody is inconvenienced, least of all you.
You know, the way divorces usually work. 
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(03-11-2017, 04:06 PM)SomeGuy Wrote: (03-11-2017, 04:01 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: It's complicated, but the Colorado River borders CA, and leaving the union does not mean arrangements and trade cannot be made with neighboring countries.
Oh yes, Eric, I am certain that should things come to the point where people decide that they can no longer live in the same country together and thus dissolve over two centuries of Union, they will nonetheless be sure to make certain that all formerly shared assets and resources will be equitably divided in such a way that nobody is inconvenienced, least of all you.
You know, the way divorces usually work.
Yes, lack of inconvenience to ME is the most important consideration.
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(03-11-2017, 04:08 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: (03-11-2017, 04:06 PM)SomeGuy Wrote: (03-11-2017, 04:01 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: It's complicated, but the Colorado River borders CA, and leaving the union does not mean arrangements and trade cannot be made with neighboring countries.
Oh yes, Eric, I am certain that should things come to the point where people decide that they can no longer live in the same country together and thus dissolve over two centuries of Union, they will nonetheless be sure to make certain that all formerly shared assets and resources will be equitably divided in such a way that nobody is inconvenienced, least of all you.
You know, the way divorces usually work.
Yes, lack of inconvenience to ME is the most important consideration.
Yes, I know, Eric. That's why I mentioned it.
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(03-11-2017, 11:53 AM)Kinser79 Wrote: (03-11-2017, 10:54 AM)Odin Wrote: Ah yes, the usual "HYPERINFLATION IS COMING, THE END IS NEAR FOR EVIL STATIST COLLECTIVISM" predictions that never pan out.
Can you name me one historical fiat currency that hasn't collapsed?
Judging from the silence he hasn't found one yet. Hint Odin: Its because there isn't one.
Once the currency blows up you have a choice go down the road of Venezuala and Zimbabwe or embrace the free market. Even in places like that the informal economy comes in to being and in fact saves people from their own government. Even in benighted places like this the free market improves many individuals lives even while their government tries to stamp it out like the Soviet Union tried.
Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard. -- H.L. Mencken
If one rejects laissez faire on account of man's fallibility and moral weakness, one must for the same reason also reject every kind of government action. -- Ludwig von Mises
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