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(05-05-2019, 12:50 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (05-04-2019, 07:44 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: I would counter that I prefer them focusing on us rather than themselves. Should they actually become self-aware they may take steps to prevent their own demise.
I prefer to limit their demise to themselves as much as possible. I can't help it, it must be the tinch of Christian in me.
I feel no threat from the Blues. The faster they drive their clown car off a cliff the better. But then again I'm not remotely a Christian.
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(05-05-2019, 01:01 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: PB definitely has a few screws loose as they say.
I take pride in my rationality. With a little imagination and information I might come up with some provocative ideas. If you dislike them -- then that is your problem.
I admit to Asperger's which compromises some aspects of normal life that I regret that I cannot enjoy.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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(05-05-2019, 05:55 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: (05-05-2019, 12:50 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (05-04-2019, 07:44 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: I would counter that I prefer them focusing on us rather than themselves. Should they actually become self-aware they may take steps to prevent their own demise.
I prefer to limit their demise to themselves as much as possible. I can't help it, it must be the tinch of Christian in me.
I feel no threat from the Blues. The faster they drive their clown car off a cliff the better. But then again I'm not remotely a Christian.
No surprise. You went from Stalin to Trump. I have only gone from Hubert Humphrey to Barack Obama.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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(05-05-2019, 10:54 PM)taramarie Wrote: Being Christian doesn't make a person good and being a non Christian does not make a person an asshole. Anyone with a brain should know that one. An asshole is just an asshole whatever belief system. Actions and beliefs notoriously do not play well if one is not a well person. The hypocrisies are startling especially when it comes to those of faith going by their supposed beliefs. I have had Christians tell me it does not matter how good a person you are. If you don't believe, you will burn. As a non believer I laughed it off, but still found it interesting how some think its a fkn club and only they are "pure" of sin and can find peace after death. What a load of toxic rubbish.
I wouldn't get upset about a tinch of Christian anymore than I'd get upset about a non Christian. Whatever...
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(05-06-2019, 02:05 AM)taramarie Wrote: (05-06-2019, 01:41 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (05-05-2019, 10:54 PM)taramarie Wrote: Being Christian doesn't make a person good and being a non Christian does not make a person an asshole. Anyone with a brain should know that one. An asshole is just an asshole whatever belief system. Actions and beliefs notoriously do not play well if one is not a well person. The hypocrisies are startling especially when it comes to those of faith going by their supposed beliefs. I have had Christians tell me it does not matter how good a person you are. If you don't believe, you will burn. As a non believer I laughed it off, but still found it interesting how some think its a fkn club and only they are "pure" of sin and can find peace after death. What a load of toxic rubbish.
I wouldn't get upset about a tinch of Christian anymore than I'd get upset about a non Christian. Whatever...
This is not an upset. This is an observation.
Well, if you don't believe in Jesus, you probably won't get the chance to see/experience heaven. Do you have a problem with accepting that probability as a reality when the time comes? I doubt that you have the power over rule Jesus's decision. You seem like a decent person who doesn't really have to worry about being burned in hell. I'm in the same group of people as you as far as that goes. Me, I really like American life and I really like being an American. So, I wouldn't mind coming back and making sure that America stays the way that is down the road if that option is available to me when the time comes.
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(05-06-2019, 01:24 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: (05-05-2019, 05:55 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: (05-05-2019, 12:50 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (05-04-2019, 07:44 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: I would counter that I prefer them focusing on us rather than themselves. Should they actually become self-aware they may take steps to prevent their own demise.
I prefer to limit their demise to themselves as much as possible. I can't help it, it must be the tinch of Christian in me.
I feel no threat from the Blues. The faster they drive their clown car off a cliff the better. But then again I'm not remotely a Christian.
No surprise. You went from Stalin to Trump. I have only gone from Hubert Humphrey to Barack Obama.
I think he only moved from Bernie to Trump.
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(05-06-2019, 03:23 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (05-06-2019, 01:24 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: (05-05-2019, 05:55 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: (05-05-2019, 12:50 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (05-04-2019, 07:44 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: I would counter that I prefer them focusing on us rather than themselves. Should they actually become self-aware they may take steps to prevent their own demise.
I prefer to limit their demise to themselves as much as possible. I can't help it, it must be the tinch of Christian in me.
I feel no threat from the Blues. The faster they drive their clown car off a cliff the better. But then again I'm not remotely a Christian.
No surprise. You went from Stalin to Trump. I have only gone from Hubert Humphrey to Barack Obama.
I think he only moved from Bernie to Trump.
As far as electoral politics in the US are concerned, yes. And I mainly supported Bernie in that he wasn't HRC, not because he actually brought anything useful to the table.
I've gone further to the point of rejecting planned economics (see F. A. Hayek) and embracing an over arching libertarian-ism. Though I think there is room for a National Capitalism to arise. International Capitalism will only result in a race to the bottom.
After all if humans are fallible creatures prone to corruption. And we assume that power has a tendency to corrupt these fallible creatures then it seems prudent to defuse power as broadly as possible.
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05-06-2019, 05:13 PM
(This post was last modified: 05-07-2019, 09:28 AM by pbrower2a.)
(05-06-2019, 02:52 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (05-06-2019, 02:05 AM)taramarie Wrote: (05-06-2019, 01:41 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (05-05-2019, 10:54 PM)taramarie Wrote: Being Christian doesn't make a person good and being a non Christian does not make a person an asshole. Anyone with a brain should know that one. An asshole is just an asshole whatever belief system. Actions and beliefs notoriously do not play well if one is not a well person. The hypocrisies are startling especially when it comes to those of faith going by their supposed beliefs. I have had Christians tell me it does not matter how good a person you are. If you don't believe, you will burn. As a non believer I laughed it off, but still found it interesting how some think its a fkn club and only they are "pure" of sin and can find peace after death. What a load of toxic rubbish.
I wouldn't get upset about a tinch of Christian anymore than I'd get upset about a non Christian. Whatever...
This is not an upset. This is an observation.
Well, if you don't believe in Jesus, you probably won't get the chance to see/experience heaven. Do you have a problem with accepting that probability as a reality when the time comes? I doubt that you have the power over rule Jesus's decision. You seem like a decent person who doesn't really have to worry about being burned in hell. I'm in the same group of people as you as far as that goes. Me, I really like American life and I really like being an American. So, I wouldn't mind coming back and making sure that America stays the way that is down the road if that option is available to me when the time comes.
The only God that I would ever worship is One powerful enough to act with mercy toward sinners. We all fall short, but that falling short can be anything from failing to send a thank-you letter to casting small children into raging furnaces. It is a good idea to not test such a God with egregious sin that one best describes as crime. I like to believe that the righteous of all nations and cultures will go to Heaven, and that hell is full of people who would mess up Heaven. One of the horrors of Hell, as I imagine it, is a ringside seat in which one has a compulsory witness to the delights of heaven denied them. (That is the opposite of the Puritan view, in which people would get to look through a telescope to witness the suffering of the damned evil-doers, but I think that would get very old very fast). Another is that one is around murderers, thieves, rapists, cheats, perjurers, and liars. Bad company that makes life miserable will also make an Afterlife miserable. I do not want to end up where the Nazis are.
Jesus? Someone who prayed Shema Yisrael as Nazis mowed them down with machine gun fire or as they started to die from hydrogen cyanide fumes would seem damned by your criteria. I expect a merciful God to forgive misunderstandings of theology and correct those gently. Besides -- can we prove which view of God is right? I am tempted to believe that God is beyond full human understanding.
Those who persecuted Muslims may find upon their deaths that God is Allah, and Muhammad is his greatest Prophet. Does anyone want to guess the identity of the God who judges the perpetrators of the Bataan Death March and 9/11? God is powerful enough, I understand, to change His Identity when judging us -- if He exists.
If I am to give any advice on the Hereafter, it is that God is capable of much mercy -- but don't test Him too much. Don't be a murderer, rapist, thief, swindler, perjurer, or shyster lest you end up with your own kind.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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(05-06-2019, 02:52 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Well, if you don't believe in Jesus, you probably won't get the chance to see/experience heaven. Do you have a problem with accepting that probability as a reality when the time comes?
High on my list of extreme improbabilities is the concept that a supreme being would be so petulant and petty that failing to believe in his/her meme would make you a permanent exile from his/her heaven. It's irrationality at its worst.
Intelligence is not knowledge and knowledge is not wisdom, but they all play well together.
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(05-06-2019, 03:23 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (05-06-2019, 01:24 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: (05-05-2019, 05:55 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: (05-05-2019, 12:50 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (05-04-2019, 07:44 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: I would counter that I prefer them focusing on us rather than themselves. Should they actually become self-aware they may take steps to prevent their own demise.
I prefer to limit their demise to themselves as much as possible. I can't help it, it must be the tinch of Christian in me.
I feel no threat from the Blues. The faster they drive their clown car off a cliff the better. But then again I'm not remotely a Christian.
No surprise. You went from Stalin to Trump. I have only gone from Hubert Humphrey to Barack Obama.
I think he only moved from Bernie to Trump.
On the old Forum he really was a Stalinist. He denied Stalin's crimes and suggested that Stalinist economics were the best hope for Humanity.
Have you ever read Eric Hoffer's The True Believer? It exposes the moral emptiness of extremists and the ease of going from one anti-human ideology to another. I start with his observation about opposites:
Quote:The opposite of a raging fascist is not a raging communist. The opposite of a raging fascist is a sober liberal.
Many fascists were extreme Leftists before going to the ultra-nationalist, elitist Right. In view of The True Believer, it is not so surprising that a neo-Nazi becomes a member of ISIS, that a former head of the French Communist Party became a leading member of a collaborationist party in Vichy France, or that brutal enforcers of such fascist cliques (Hlinka Guard, Arrow Cross, iron Guard, and Ustase) became enforcers for Commie rule. The dreaded Nazi "hanging judge" Roland Friesler had been a toady of the Bolsheviks while a prisoner during the Bolshevik Revolution (he had been captured by the tsar's armies); one Nazi official had said of him "Friesler is our Vishinsky!", referring to the leading judge of Stalin's purge trials. One of the people executed with Mussolini at the end of World War II As a gay black man, Kinsler can of course never become a Nazi or a Ku Kluxist, for obvious reasons.
The extremist is usually ruthless, emotionally hollow, and amoral; as a substitute for morality he chooses an easily-learned code that justifies his worst tendencies. Harsh measures against pariahs will allegedly transcend the will to kill, rape, steal, and lie; one's cruelty toward pariahs is charity toward Humanity as a whole.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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(05-07-2019, 04:02 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (05-07-2019, 09:20 AM)David Horn Wrote: (05-06-2019, 02:52 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Well, if you don't believe in Jesus, you probably won't get the chance to see/experience heaven. Do you have a problem with accepting that probability as a reality when the time comes?
High on my list of extreme improbabilities is the concept that a supreme being would be so petulant and petty that failing to believe in his/her meme would make you a permanent exile from his/her heaven. It's irrationality at its worst.
Dude, Heaven's doors aren't open to the public. One has to please Jesus and prove themselves worthy of belonging before entering Heaven. I wonder what Queen Nancy going to do when she learns that her ticket that she purchased for herself is fake and learns that Jesus is an asshole doesn't care how important she thinks she is or how much she's spent making herself look good to everyone else.
If there is a petty petulant God, you can keep him. I've had quite enough of petty petulant humans. A petty petulant God would be too much to bear.
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(05-07-2019, 10:55 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: On the old Forum he really was a Stalinist. He denied Stalin's crimes and suggested that Stalinist economics were the best hope for Humanity.
Have you ever read Eric Hoffer's The True Believer? It exposes the moral emptiness of extremists and the ease of going from one anti-human ideology to another. I start with his observation about opposites:
Quote:The opposite of a raging fascist is not a raging communist. The opposite of a raging fascist is a sober liberal.
Many fascists were extreme Leftists before going to the ultra-nationalist, elitist Right. In view of The True Believer, it is not so surprising that a neo-Nazi becomes a member of ISIS, that a former head of the French Communist Party became a leading member of a collaborationist party in Vichy France, or that brutal enforcers of such fascist cliques (Hlinka Guard, Arrow Cross, iron Guard, and Ustase) became enforcers for Commie rule. The dreaded Nazi "hanging judge" Roland Friesler had been a toady of the Bolsheviks while a prisoner during the Bolshevik Revolution (he had been captured by the tsar's armies); one Nazi official had said of him "Friesler is our Vishinsky!", referring to the leading judge of Stalin's purge trials. One of the people executed with Mussolini at the end of World War II As a gay black man, Kinsler can of course never become a Nazi or a Ku Kluxist, for obvious reasons.
The extremist is usually ruthless, emotionally hollow, and amoral; as a substitute for morality he chooses an easily-learned code that justifies his worst tendencies. Harsh measures against pariahs will allegedly transcend the will to kill, rape, steal, and lie; one's cruelty toward pariahs is charity toward Humanity as a whole.
You support socialism and you view socialism as being the best hope for humanity today. I don't see why you're upset about him supporting the same economic system as you do back then.
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(05-07-2019, 05:41 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: You support socialism and you view socialism as being the best hope for humanity today. I don't see why you're upset about him supporting the same economic system as you do back then.
The best solution for an advanced economy is a social market economy which fosters a strong free-market sector that makes a generous welfare state (the welfare state existing largely to give people a chance to be highly-productive workers capable of paying taxes. Cheap labor is not an objective.
Government ownership and operation of productive businesses usually results in bad government bringing about bad business practices. Central planning has consistently shown itself a failure. Need I explain?
Business managing the political system, which is nearly what we have, implies concentration of opportunities in few places, monopolization of business with vertical integration which together promote further concentration of wealth and income, and a lust for cheap labor. When the Republicans have both Houses of Congress we effectively have government by lobbyist, which is not a democracy.
For all our unparallelled productivity most Americans endure hard times either for living in cities that have few opportunities or in places where one can get the job but pay exorbitant rent. Rural areas? The manufacturing jobs are vanishing. This is a wonderful country now for a loan-shark, landlord, or lobbyist.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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(05-07-2019, 02:58 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (05-06-2019, 07:33 PM)taramarie Wrote: I also have to ask.....what is heaven? For me it is an individual state of mind as well as a physical reality of life for people and animals alike on this earth. If in death I see my loved ones all together waiting for me whether it is in the stereotype of heaven or not, its still something that would be lovely for me to see my loved ones and be with them once more. That would be my definition of heaven. Everyone has their own definition I believe.
I don't know, I haven't seen it yet. I know some people who had a glimpse of what heaven is like. According to them, it's a very peaceful/tranquil environment/ experience for them. One person told that he was pretty upset about the doctors bringing him back to life. I think most people have their own view of heaven and understanding of what heaven is for them. I'd say most view it the same way as you. Heaven is the place where you get to see and be with your loved ones again for eternity. Me, I never had the feeling my loved ones ever left. I've always felt their presence in my life. I think my daughter has met my grandmother. I knew the moment when my grandmother passed away. I knew the moment when my aunt passed away. I knew the moment when my father passed away. Were they all coincidences? I don't think so. I wasn't raised a believer. I was raised agnostic. I became a believer. I often get the impression that I'm a life traveler. In other words, I have a strong feeling that I've lived before and most likely will live again. I don't know, I can't say for sure because it's just a feeling of mine.
Said the master to the slave: you will still be a slave, for that is necessary in the Sweet Bye-and-Bye. Let us be careful about what we pray for: God might make a slave of the master and a master from the slave.
My idea of Heaven is a composite dude ranch and Chautauqua -- stimulation of body and mind. People are free from economic concerns. Maybe it is a different experience for different people. For some a yeshiva would be paradise -- and for some it would be the scariest place possible.
The souls in any Heaven are kind, caring, and generous. People get to know their Creator as they never could in This World -- and who knows -- practically everyone will find out that he got it all wrong. Anyone who could create the laws that underpin the Universe must be way beyond us.
What of the evil? Out of sight and out of mind, for we no longer need be aware of Hitler, Stalin, Saddam, etc. Maybe we get a short peek through a telescope or a video device to see what the Afterlife is like for such types as Nazis -- enough to show us how right we are. Watching Cerberus (the three-headed dog) rip Hitler to shreds would get very old very fast.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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(05-07-2019, 05:41 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (05-07-2019, 10:55 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: On the old Forum he really was a Stalinist. He denied Stalin's crimes and suggested that Stalinist economics were the best hope for Humanity.
Have you ever read Eric Hoffer's The True Believer? It exposes the moral emptiness of extremists and the ease of going from one anti-human ideology to another. I start with his observation about opposites:
Quote:The opposite of a raging fascist is not a raging communist. The opposite of a raging fascist is a sober liberal.
Many fascists were extreme Leftists before going to the ultra-nationalist, elitist Right. In view of The True Believer, it is not so surprising that a neo-Nazi becomes a member of ISIS, that a former head of the French Communist Party became a leading member of a collaborationist party in Vichy France, or that brutal enforcers of such fascist cliques (Hlinka Guard, Arrow Cross, iron Guard, and Ustase) became enforcers for Commie rule. The dreaded Nazi "hanging judge" Roland Friesler had been a toady of the Bolsheviks while a prisoner during the Bolshevik Revolution (he had been captured by the tsar's armies); one Nazi official had said of him "Friesler is our Vishinsky!", referring to the leading judge of Stalin's purge trials. One of the people executed with Mussolini at the end of World War II As a gay black man, Kinsler can of course never become a Nazi or a Ku Kluxist, for obvious reasons.
The extremist is usually ruthless, emotionally hollow, and amoral; as a substitute for morality he chooses an easily-learned code that justifies his worst tendencies. Harsh measures against pariahs will allegedly transcend the will to kill, rape, steal, and lie; one's cruelty toward pariahs is charity toward Humanity as a whole.
You support socialism and you view socialism as being the best hope for humanity today. I don't see why you're upset about him supporting the same economic system as you do back then.
Because it wasn't his own particular brand of socialism. Never mind that all forms of socialism, national or international (Marxian), have a tendency to degenerate into dictatorships of Party.
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05-08-2019, 01:26 PM
(This post was last modified: 05-08-2019, 01:27 PM by pbrower2a.)
Big, irresponsible government, whatever its ideology, almost always degenerates into tyranny. Socialism without democracy is a sham.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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(05-08-2019, 12:56 AM)taramarie Wrote: (05-07-2019, 04:02 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (05-07-2019, 09:20 AM)David Horn Wrote: (05-06-2019, 02:52 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Well, if you don't believe in Jesus, you probably won't get the chance to see/experience heaven. Do you have a problem with accepting that probability as a reality when the time comes?
High on my list of extreme improbabilities is the concept that a supreme being would be so petulant and petty that failing to believe in his/her meme would make you a permanent exile from his/her heaven. It's irrationality at its worst.
Dude, Heaven's doors aren't open to the public. One has to please Jesus and prove themselves worthy of belonging before entering Heaven. I wonder what Queen Nancy going to do when she learns that her ticket that she purchased for herself is fake and learns that Jesus is an asshole doesn't care how important she thinks she is or how much she's spent making herself look good to everyone else.
My partner who happens to be Christian says the same thing. However believes that one does not have to believe in a God to find your "heaven" when you die. You just have to be a good person and he states also that there are some pretty shitty Christians who do not follow what their bible and church preaches. That basically actions speak louder than their supposed beliefs. He stated Pope Francis also said that those who are kind will find their "heaven" when they die and will not be separated from their loved ones as some toxic individuals preach and/or will not suffer in death. Of course I do not believe in the theory, but its the toxic connotation attached to such ideas that does disturb me. I actually like my partners interpretation of his belief. Far healthier than some who state one must be a believer and if not one will burn in hell regardless if you have lived a kind hearted selfless life. Not a very healthy belief system some have.
Most likely, people will end up where they deserve to go. I certainly do not want to go where the Nazis are! I would hate to be among drunks and addicts, too, who are far less objectionable than the killers, rapists, and scammers. To be free from the troubles that come from a mental syndrome that makes love and joy practically impossible would be great. Farewell, emotional, cultural, and material poverty!
Besides -- what if everyone is wrong about the nature of a merciful God?
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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(05-06-2019, 02:52 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (05-06-2019, 02:05 AM)taramarie Wrote: (05-06-2019, 01:41 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (05-05-2019, 10:54 PM)taramarie Wrote: Being Christian doesn't make a person good and being a non Christian does not make a person an asshole. Anyone with a brain should know that one. An asshole is just an asshole whatever belief system. Actions and beliefs notoriously do not play well if one is not a well person. The hypocrisies are startling especially when it comes to those of faith going by their supposed beliefs. I have had Christians tell me it does not matter how good a person you are. If you don't believe, you will burn. As a non believer I laughed it off, but still found it interesting how some think its a fkn club and only they are "pure" of sin and can find peace after death. What a load of toxic rubbish.
I wouldn't get upset about a tinch of Christian anymore than I'd get upset about a non Christian. Whatever...
This is not an upset. This is an observation.
Well, if you don't believe in Jesus, you probably won't get the chance to see/experience heaven. Do you have a problem with accepting that probability as a reality when the time comes? I doubt that you have the power over rule Jesus's decision. You seem like a decent person who doesn't really have to worry about being burned in hell. I'm in the same group of people as you as far as that goes. Me, I really like American life and I really like being an American. So, I wouldn't mind coming back and making sure that America stays the way that is down the road if that option is available to me when the time comes.
I thought you said you were not on board with traditional Christianity and fundamentalism. You said you think you must believe in Jesus to go to heaven. That's fundamentalism. That's what the religious right says.
America is a nation of immigrants. If America stays the way America is, that means it will guarantee freedom of speech and press and basic rights for all regardless of race or creed, and it will be even more America if it repeals the 2nd Amendment.
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(05-08-2019, 01:26 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Big, irresponsible government, whatever its ideology, almost always degenerates into tyranny. Socialism without democracy is a sham.
Socialism itself is big, irresponsible government. And what many people think of being democracy is a sham. It really amounts to people voting themselves other people's money by means of the state.
If democracy is to be desired--and I'm not sure it is in and of itself--then the franchise needs to be limited. Ideally I think to those who have already demonstrated a willingness to lay down their lives for the body politic. Starship Troopers style.
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(05-08-2019, 01:56 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Besides -- what if everyone is wrong about the nature of a merciful God?
What if everyone is wrong about a god even existing. Surely if there was omniscient, omnipresent, supernatural being, whether he, she, it or they actually cared about the affairs of humans there would be periodic evidence of their existence. Yet, so far nothing.
After all it isn't like we're contemplating the belief in the existence of humans by ants. They would see periodic evidence of our existence in their running about day to day lives. Simply drop a piece of hard candy on the pavement.
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