Do Civics get anything good in the cycle?

[AspieMillennial]

It seems like they get all of the bad. Is there any good side that extends to our lives, not the life of some hypothetical children in the future?

[David Horn]

(05-30-2019, 09:35 AM)AspieMillennial Wrote: It seems like they get all of the bad. Is there any good side that extends to our lives, not the life of some hypothetical children in the future?

Civics tend to bear burdens in youth and collect their due in later life.  That certainly beats the opposite, where a soft beginning leads to an unmanageable elderhood.  Many Silents suffered when the market went south just as retirement loomed, though others where well protected by pensions.  Boomers are less protected by pensions, and an economic crisis might leave a lot of us in poverty, just when recovery is impossible.  We still have to see this play out.

FWIW, I think I'm in decent shape, regardless.

[Kinser79]

(05-30-2019, 09:35 AM)AspieMillennial Wrote: It seems like they get all of the bad. Is there any good side that extends to our lives, not the life of some hypothetical children in the future?

Yes.  You get to spend most of your prime earning years in a stable if bland society that reflects your generation's values for good or ill.

[pbrower2a]

(05-30-2019, 10:15 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(05-30-2019, 09:35 AM)AspieMillennial Wrote: It seems like they get all of the bad. Is there any good side that extends to our lives, not the life of some hypothetical children in the future?

Civics tend to bear burdens in youth and collect their due in later life.  That certainly beats the opposite, where a soft beginning leads to an unmanageable elderhood.  Many Silents suffered when the market went south just as retirement loomed, though others where well protected by pensions.  Boomers are less protected by pensions, and an economic crisis might leave a lot of us in poverty, just when recovery is impossible.  We still have to see this play out.

FWIW, I think I'm in decent shape, regardless.

Also -- Civic youth rarely get the opportunity for flamboyant expressions of self (Liberace is the most flagrant exception), and they usually reach economic adulthood after they have saved the world and put more emphasis on quality than on display in such things as real estate, cars, etc.

Late-wave Boomers started a trend of job-jumping in which they took 'survival' jobs that they did for six months to a year while looking for something else. Long-term employment became a rarity, and most businesses abandoned pensions as a reward.

[AspieMillennial]

(05-30-2019, 11:42 AM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(05-30-2019, 10:15 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(05-30-2019, 09:35 AM)AspieMillennial Wrote: It seems like they get all of the bad. Is there any good side that extends to our lives, not the life of some hypothetical children in the future?

Civics tend to bear burdens in youth and collect their due in later life.  That certainly beats the opposite, where a soft beginning leads to an unmanageable elderhood.  Many Silents suffered when the market went south just as retirement loomed, though others where well protected by pensions.  Boomers are less protected by pensions, and an economic crisis might leave a lot of us in poverty, just when recovery is impossible.  We still have to see this play out.

FWIW, I think I'm in decent shape, regardless.

Also -- Civic youth rarely get the opportunity for flamboyant expressions of self (Liberace is the most flagrant exception), and they usually reach economic adulthood after they have saved the world and put more emphasis on quality than on display in such things as real estate, cars, etc.

Late-wave Boomers started a trend of job-jumping in which they took 'survival' jobs that they did for six months to a year while looking for something else. Long-term employment became a rarity, and most businesses abandoned pensions as a reward.

How don't they have the opportunity? It seems strange looking at all the possibilities around. Anyone who wants to express themselves can it's just they have to make the choice whether or not to do it.

[AspieMillennial]

(05-30-2019, 11:42 AM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(05-30-2019, 10:15 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(05-30-2019, 09:35 AM)AspieMillennial Wrote: It seems like they get all of the bad. Is there any good side that extends to our lives, not the life of some hypothetical children in the future?

Civics tend to bear burdens in youth and collect their due in later life.  That certainly beats the opposite, where a soft beginning leads to an unmanageable elderhood.  Many Silents suffered when the market went south just as retirement loomed, though others where well protected by pensions.  Boomers are less protected by pensions, and an economic crisis might leave a lot of us in poverty, just when recovery is impossible.  We still have to see this play out.

FWIW, I think I'm in decent shape, regardless.

Also -- Civic youth rarely get the opportunity for flamboyant expressions of self (Liberace is the most flagrant exception), and they usually reach economic adulthood after they have saved the world and put more emphasis on quality than on display in such things as real estate, cars, etc.

Late-wave Boomers started a trend of job-jumping in which they took 'survival' jobs that they did for six months to a year while looking for something else. Long-term employment became a rarity, and most businesses abandoned pensions as a reward.

When did the job hopping trend start? the 00s? What caused them to also start the trend of firing people easily for things like "not being the right fit"? or some nonsense like that?

[David Horn]

(05-30-2019, 02:03 PM)AspieMillennial Wrote: When did the job hopping trend start? the 00s? What caused them to also start the trend of firing people easily for things like "not being the right fit"? or some nonsense like that?

Job hopping started when the imbalance of power between management and employees got to the point that management could do as it pleased. It will stay that way until that's reversed and a new balance is acquired. The 4T may get it done, assuming the issue is addressed with real action, not words.

[pbrower2a]

(05-30-2019, 02:03 PM)AspieMillennial Wrote:

(05-30-2019, 11:42 AM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(05-30-2019, 10:15 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(05-30-2019, 09:35 AM)AspieMillennial Wrote: It seems like they get all of the bad. Is there any good side that extends to our lives, not the life of some hypothetical children in the future?

Civics tend to bear burdens in youth and collect their due in later life.  That certainly beats the opposite, where a soft beginning leads to an unmanageable elderhood.  Many Silents suffered when the market went south just as retirement loomed, though others where well protected by pensions.  Boomers are less protected by pensions, and an economic crisis might leave a lot of us in poverty, just when recovery is impossible.  We still have to see this play out.

FWIW, I think I'm in decent shape, regardless.

Also -- Civic youth rarely get the opportunity for flamboyant expressions of self (Liberace is the most flagrant exception), and they usually reach economic adulthood after they have saved the world and put more emphasis on quality than on display in such things as real estate, cars, etc.

Late-wave Boomers started a trend of job-jumping in which they took 'survival' jobs that they did for six months to a year while looking for something else. Long-term employment became a rarity, and most businesses abandoned pensions as a reward.

When did the job hopping trend start? the 00s? What caused them to also start the trend of firing people easily for things like "not being the right fit"? or some nonsense like that?

Late 1970s, with the rapid growth in cr@ppy jobs in retail (when the shopping malls were blooming) and fast food. People knew that those low-paying jobs were never good for anything more than  paying commuter costs, buying some clothes, and putting a couple of years' experience on a resume for a career in white-collar work. Meanwhile, educated young adults avoided manufacturing jobs that still paid fairly well. Our sales clerks were too good for what they were paid, and talented people got steered away from the manufacturing sector so that there wasn't the supply of skilled workers in manufacturing. In the 1980s, the Reagan administration acquiesced with Big Business to weaken unions and thus drive down costs.

Big Business made few investments in the training of workers to advance on the job, and young workers knew it.

[AspieMillennial]

(05-30-2019, 10:07 PM)taramarie Wrote:

(05-30-2019, 10:01 PM)AspieMillennial Wrote:

(05-30-2019, 05:12 PM)taramarie Wrote: Like others have said we struggle earlier in life, and find balance in our elder years till of course the next prophets come along to topple our sand castle for whatever reason they see fits at the time. I rather this as id rather learn early and carry those lessons with me as I age rather than be sheltered and suffer the consequences much later in life. I have learned a lot from just watching my mother do this who yes, is a boomer. She is a total idiot with money and basics of being an adult.

How did you get through the 4T without developing a nihilistic attitude? What I learned is to have fun when you can even if it's unwise because another crash can always wipe everything away. Hold on to moments because they can always be gone in a second. Be adaptable to the situation; never count on anything ever being the same. Things change like lightening. Use strategies to get what you want and be resourceful. Base your life strategy in both the now and the projected future. Never have the same life strategy applied to all situations.

Because to my core I do not believe in what nihilism represents which is, "a person who believes that life is meaningless and rejects all religious and moral principles." Meaning it just has no place in my life as I do not see life as meaningless and I have my own beliefs and morals. A 4T cannot shake that from me because I am a stronger person than that and who I am to the core is stronger than what a 4T can throw at me.

I have some moral principles but a lot of what I believe is based on what's practical and pragmatic. I do see a lot of the world as random and arbitrary. For example, I see myself as born randomly and random existing in this time and place. I see things as just happening to me with me reacting to them. I also see contradictions everywhere and think words and actions don't always correlate. Actions speak far louder to me.

[AspieMillennial]

(05-30-2019, 10:35 AM)Kinser79 Wrote:

(05-30-2019, 09:35 AM)AspieMillennial Wrote: It seems like they get all of the bad. Is there any good side that extends to our lives, not the life of some hypothetical children in the future?

Yes.  You get to spend most of your prime earning years in a stable if bland society that reflects your generation's values for good or ill.

Great. We get a totalitarian society whether left or right. So fun for me to be surrounded by assholes who want to tell me what to do. Then their kids get all the freedom then hypocritically built a more restrictive world for the sake of the children. It enrages me to no end.

[pbrower2a]

(05-30-2019, 10:16 PM)AspieMillennial Wrote:

(05-30-2019, 10:07 PM)taramarie Wrote:

(05-30-2019, 10:01 PM)AspieMillennial Wrote:

(05-30-2019, 05:12 PM)taramarie Wrote: Like others have said we struggle earlier in life, and find balance in our elder years till of course the next prophets come along to topple our sand castle for whatever reason they see fits at the time. I rather this as id rather learn early and carry those lessons with me as I age rather than be sheltered and suffer the consequences much later in life. I have learned a lot from just watching my mother do this who yes, is a boomer. She is a total idiot with money and basics of being an adult.

How did you get through the 4T without developing a nihilistic attitude? What I learned is to have fun when you can even if it's unwise because another crash can always wipe everything away. Hold on to moments because they can always be gone in a second. Be adaptable to the situation; never count on anything ever being the same. Things change like lightening. Use strategies to get what you want and be resourceful. Base your life strategy in both the now and the projected future. Never have the same life strategy applied to all situations.

Because to my core I do not believe in what nihilism represents which is, "a person who believes that life is meaningless and rejects all religious and moral principles." Meaning it just has no place in my life as I do not see life as meaningless and I have my own beliefs and morals. A 4T cannot shake that from me because I am a stronger person than that and who I am to the core is stronger than what a 4T can throw at me.

I have some moral principles but a lot of what I believe is based on what's practical and pragmatic. I do see a lot of the world as random and arbitrary. For example, I see myself as born randomly and random existing in this time and place. I see things as just happening to me with me reacting to them. I also see contradictions everywhere and think words and actions don't always correlate. Actions speak far louder to me.

Howe and Strauss in general suggest that some historical patterns are anything but random, connecting economics, mass culture, politics, wars (including their severity), and mass choices in careers. Some generations are stronger at certain things than at others; for example, a Reactive generation is more likely to consider starting a small business and sticking to it for the potential of faring better than in underpaid work (white or blue collar) in contrast to Adaptive types, who if they are to start a business it is typically a professional practice with little potential of career growth.

Heck, I think I can draw some conclusions that Howe and Strauss did not make, or did not publish. I see the latter part of a 3T as in general a time of weak government that facilitates every whim of Big Business and even sees destructive hustles for their potential for profit and not for the ruin that ensues. I see the pattern of economics reflecting the consequences of businesses having grown (or not) from businesses started (or not started!) about forty years earlier. Economic opportunity for most people taking jobs is strongest thirty to forty years after large numbers of small businesses being formed, some of the businesses growing into mass employers as the founders approach retirement age. The personal payoff for owning and operating a small business is slight for about twenty years, which makes starting a business unattractive to Adaptive types who might become accountants or veterinarians -- but more attractive to Reactive types who see investing in a small business either more attractive than ill-paid casual labor or domestic service when professional education prices out youth. The absence of small businesses formed forty years earlier practically ensures the concentration of industry into cartels and monopolies that overcharge customers, inflate costs, and create fewer work opportunities than competitive business would. Furthermore, monopolies and cartels often have the means (cash paid to politicians as campaign funds and to lobbyists to pull the strings on elected officials) to make the system work for those already entrenched to make life difficult for competitors -- and to cut taxes for the economic elites and establish tariffs to facilitate the trusts. In a late 3T (and our politicians are extending the 3T economy long into the 4T) the country may prosper, but workers simply get underpaid, overworked, and bled by profiteers.

[Tim Randal Walker]

Yes, Kinser has a good point. 1T can be a good time to be a Civic. Such a time can seem bland/boring to other archetypes; but I didn't have my young adulthood during a Crisis era. And for Civics on the elder side of a generation gap, the calm of a 1T must seem pleasant compared to the upheaval of a 2T.

[Hintergrund]

Their childhood is protected better than the Nomads' one, but still freer than the Artists' one. I know of Nomads whose parents (mind: rich parents!) wouldn't even care when their kids were molested or worse by teachers in school. They dismissed it like this: "Eh, the kid has a lot of fantasy." - If your parents ordered you around a bit - see it as the insurance for not being molested.

Their burden as young soldiers or workers is admittedly hard - but at least they have something to be proud of which nobody can steal from them. (Admittedly, this was true for former Civics. For Millennials, not so much.)

In mid-life, they had a lot of work - but also made good money. A lot of money was taken by the state from Losts and given the G.I.s.

Their high age when they were criticized by their "Prophet" kids sucked of course. But we should consider that the G.I.s made mistakes themselves, when they spoilt their Boomer kids rotten. They should have known better, but I guess they dismissed the Nomads who warned them as old fogeys.

And that's a mistake I don't forgive them: After they spoilt their Boomer kids rotten, and said kids rebelled against them, they joined in punishing the Xers (for their own failing!). Why are Xers even considered the generation of "lost civic virtue"? It's the Boomers who should be identified as that. When did they ever do something civic?

[pbrower2a]

(05-31-2019, 07:08 PM)Hintergrund Wrote: Their childhood is protected better than the Nomads' one, but still freer than the Artists' one. I know of Nomads whose parents (mind: rich parents!) wouldn't even care when their kids were molested or worse by teachers in school. They dismissed it like this: "Eh, the kid has a lot of fantasy." - If your parents ordered you around a bit - see it as the insurance for not being molested.

It is hardly surprising that the crackdown on molestation begins just as Reactive generations start approaching adulthood. Here is one of the earliest examples of the crackdown. Notice the birthdate.

Quote:Their burden as young soldiers or workers is admittedly hard - but at least they have something to be proud of which nobody can steal from them. (Admittedly, this was true for former Civics. For Millennials, not so much.)

It could be that most world leaders are scared $#!+less of the atomic bomb. The risks are not worth it unless one has absolutely nothing to lose (think of Adolf Hitler as the world, including Parkinsonism that would have killed him, using an atom bomb to wreak revenge upon a world full of enemies closing in on him). Even the vilest leaders live well enough that they do not want to die of a direct strike of an atomic bomb... or especially a near miss that imposes upon one an agonizing death if one avoids the effects of the blast and heat only to die of the radiation.

Quote:In mid-life, they had a lot of work - but also made good money. A lot of money was taken by the state from Losts and given the G.I.s.

But the sacrifices that they made in young adulthood ensured that they would not be slaves or serfs of German or Japanese overlords who would have worked them to exhaustion on starvation rations. The (largely) Gilded who survived the Civil War often used the bonuses that they got from the war to buy cheap land in the West or start businesses. The Lost got practically nothing and found themselves with (largely Missionary) moralizers who denied them even a small glass of legal wine or a legal drink of weak beer. As WWII came to its obvious beginning of the end, America's Lost came to recognize what might happen if America's war veterans got a raw economic deal as they did -- or the European contemporaries of America's Lost. Thus the GI bill. Getting inexpensive education and low-interest loans on the tract houses seeming to blossom in the new suburbs was good for having better-paying jobs and more of a stake in the capitalist system -- even if one was 'only' an industrial worker.

Quote:Their high age when they were criticized by their "Prophet" kids sucked of course. But we should consider that the G.I.s made mistakes themselves, when they spoilt their Boomer kids rotten. They should have known better, but I guess they dismissed the Nomads who warned them as old fogeys.

GIs pushed critical thinking upon Boom kids, and it worked to keep most of them from becoming narcissistic fascists -- well, there is Donald Trump.

Quote:And that's a mistake I don't forgive them: After they spoilt their Boomer kids rotten, and said kids rebelled against them, they joined in punishing the Xers (for their own failing!). Why are Xers even considered the generation of "lost civic virtue"? It's the Boomers who should be identified as that. When did they ever do something civic?

Well established -- and true. Education became more expensive, and kids were expected to work their way through college in dead-end jobs that prepared them for nothing -- and then be stuck with huge amounts of debt.

[Hintergrund]

(05-31-2019, 08:54 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(05-31-2019, 07:08 PM)Hintergrund Wrote: Their childhood is protected better than the Nomads' one, but still freer than the Artists' one. I know of Nomads whose parents (mind: rich parents!) wouldn't even care when their kids were molested or worse by teachers in school. They dismissed it like this: "Eh, the kid has a lot of fantasy." - If your parents ordered you around a bit - see it as the insurance for not being molested.

It is hardly surprising that the crackdown on molestation begins just as Reactive generations start approaching adulthood. Here is one of the earliest examples of the crackdown. Notice the birthdate.

1961, i.e. Nomad. Yeah. As if they had wanted to make sure that the Boomers are spared.
That's it: First the Nomads lose (although it's not their fault), then they get punished because they look or act or Idunno like what people expect from criminals.

[pbrower2a]

(05-31-2019, 07:08 PM)Hintergrund Wrote: Their childhood is protected better than the Nomads' one, but still freer than the Artists' one. I know of Nomads whose parents (mind: rich parents!) wouldn't even care when their kids were molested or worse by teachers in school. They dismissed it like this: "Eh, the kid has a lot of fantasy." - If your parents ordered you around a bit - see it as the insurance for not being molested.

Boomers still got some protection as children, and were nearly adults, at the least, when the destructive Sexual Revolution began. Sex became a focus of many lives instead of a supplement. X children often became objects of abuse. what had been sleazy became seductive. Add to that, X were children at the time of the divorce epidemic when old family structures broke down (for which sex was not the sole reason).

Quote:Their burden as young soldiers or workers is admittedly hard - but at least they have something to be proud of which nobody can steal from them. (Admittedly, this was true for former Civics. For Millennials, not so much.)

The one good thing that GI kids got despite being delayed in economic adulthood was good habits. Anyone who got through the Great Depression without experiencing the worst tragedies came out of it with more trust in institutions, with more respect for tradition and procedure, and with more civic spirit than did later generations. Sure, GI kids missed out on the cultural richness that Boomers (and in a way X) got to enjoy, but they also avoided the mind-numbing bilge so much of post-WWII  American pop culture.

But even with pop culture, Boomers got to see some structure by well-meaning GI's in the creation of media. If you are of a certain age you may remember the clubhouse shows that kids got to see when they got home from school. Sch was safe and relevant programming for children -- a party-like get-together in which some benign host (let us say "Ranger Jim" on WJIM-TV [get it?] offered some safe introductions to cartoons for the kiddies). Those shows allowed children to be children. In the mid-'70s those shows disappeared in favor of such variety programming more intellectually suited to adults (I think of the Mike Douglas Show), and eventually for talk shows that were often completely unsuited to children due to subject matter.

I see that as a huge divide between Boom and X. Broadcast television went from family went from family-friendly to a moral risk. Maybe those clubhouse programs weren't profitable enough. Tough! Profitable as television is, we could use those again.

Quote:In mid-life, they had a lot of work - but also made good money. A lot of money was taken by the state from Losts and given the G.I.s.

The Lost never fully trusted the government to do much good for them. They started seeing reforms to make childhood safer about as their childhood ended. They saw lax regulation by government of Big Business culminating in the Great Depression, when most of the Lost were in prime years for earning money. Lost veterans of WWI got few government benefits in contrast to what surviving Gilded got for Civil War service (the Gilded may have had Reactive childhoods but taken on Civic traits after the Civil War) or what the unambiguously Civic GI generation got. The Lost were more likely to have resentments  in America or elsewhere that led to participation in some of the vilest causes ever (Fascisti, Nazism, Bolshevism, Iron Guard, Arrow Cross, Ustase, the thug military regime in Japan, and the second -- and most dangerous -- Ku Klux Klan) worldwide. We Americans are just lucky that we did not get the KKK ruling us, or we would have had the equivalents of the Soviet Gulag or the KZ-Lager of the demonic Third Reich.

But the American Lost expected the government to serve younger people either after having made noble sacrifices to save the world or after that, simply needing to avoid the same neglect that heedless adults had imposed upon them.  The Lost were more likely to depend upon their own enterprise, and the high taxes that the Lost tolerated for fiscal reasons were graduated taxes that promoted small business over monopolistic, vertically-integrated behemoths that flourished after Reagan-era tax cuts. Those tax cuts that appeared after the Lost had practically faded from the political scene (when the youngest Lost were in their eighties) created a climate better suited to enriching extant elites than to fostering small business.

If the GI generation got government benefits such as cheap loans and post-secondary education, then the GI young-to-midlife adults
were often spending the benefits of better lives in small businesses owned and operated by Lost entrepreneurs.

Quote:Their high age when they were criticized by their "Prophet" kids sucked of course. But we should consider that the G.I.s made mistakes themselves, when they spoilt their Boomer kids rotten. They should have known better, but I guess they dismissed the Nomads who warned them as old fogeys.

The Boomers could grow up not knowing how dangerous the world could be. The 'friendly stranger' offering them bliss may have been offering heroin. Boomers could extend childhood privilege and irresponsibility much deeper into life than could any earlier generation -- but those who ended up with children often failed to terminate their extended childhood when they had children.

Quote:And that's a mistake I don't forgive them: After they spoilt their Boomer kids rotten, and said kids rebelled against them, they joined in punishing the Xers (for their own failing!). Why are Xers even considered the generation of "lost civic virtue"? It's the Boomers who should be identified as that. When did they ever do something civic?

GI's did big. Boomers at their best thought big. It could  be that the GI Generation made it impossible for a later generation to fill the GI role... until the GI Generation was off the scene. But note well -- X, especially if immigrant, has been starting small businesses as the Silent did not do at all. The Millennial Generation has the potential for reshaping the wreck of American political life when Donald Trump becomes irrelevant. I still see potential for political greatness in the Millennial Generation. We have yet to see them entering high political office in large numbers. They are still a young generation, their oldest approaching midlife. Donald Trump, the worst sort of Idealist leader possible (an exploiter and abuser who expects others to see his exploitation and abuse as beneficence), has left much to undo -- and it is obvious.

[pbrower2a]

Good habits. It is hard to overstate the value of good habits. Only in a sick society such as the old USSR are good habits of little relevance or value. Good habits are the difference between using resources and opportunities well and wasting them.

At the same age, the Millennial generation is the least likely to commit crimes, the least likely to be involved in illegal drug use, and the least likely to do underage drinking. You generation is most likely to eschew private debt unless it is attached to an income stream or to the quality of life. You smoke less. Because you have endured the time of greatest disparities between elites and the masses rather early, you will be the least likely to waste money on trifles. Your generation is least likely to allow religion to be used as a tool of oppression or exploitation.

Some things already show. Because the Millennial Generation is in bad economic shape, it is not supporting the retail behemoths well enough to keep them from going under. You do not buy bling as did Generation X.

You are more likely, if really smart, to choose skilled trades over being an over-educated clerk with a high student-0loan debt. Such will make America better at creating the physical basis of prosperity. You may be in the position in which to fill the niches that the entities once thought 'too big to fail' either no longer serve after they go under, or niches that they never served well. Your technical people are creating less-pricey alternatives to over-priced, monopolized and crony-capitalist ways of doing things.

We have yet to see what your politicians will be, but if the GIs are any indication they will be refreshing. They will not stand for elites with senses of entitlement. You will likely support tax policies that tax the Hell out of 'easy money' but favor small business. Your economic policies will not support speculative booms. You will support housing policies that promote tract houses instead of McMansions through zoning policies and taxes. Heck, you will probably end up demolishing some awful McMansions so that we can have affordable housing in their place.

We have had two awful Presidents (Dubya and now Trump) in what will have been twelve of twenty years, and your politics and business practices will repudiate such, much as the GI Generation repudiated the Harding-Coolidge-Hoover triad of awfulness. Even if we end up with a Lost-style pol resembling Dwight Eisenhower, you will find someone who does not thwart progress.

Yes, I see Donald Trump as a one-term President due to his despotic style, corruption, and erratic behavior.

[Kinser79]

(05-31-2019, 02:11 PM)Tim Randal Walker Wrote: Yes, Kinser has a good point.  1T can be a good time to be a Civic.  Such a time can seem bland/boring to other archetypes; but I didn't have my young adulthood during a Crisis era.  And for Civics on the elder side of a generation gap, the calm of a 1T must seem pleasant compared to the upheaval of a 2T.

1T will be considered very pleasant to those who are Nomads too.  Before the new prophets come along to burn everything down, and while bland, the world isn't turning to shit like it does in the other three turnings.

One of the reasons I hope to die before the new prophets get out of the "Annoying Mr. Wilson" phase.

[Tim Randal Walker]

Didn't many of the Lost die before the Boom Awakening really got going?

Perhaps the first few Awakening years weren't so bad for retired Lost. It has been noted that the Civic Order begins to decline in late 2T.

[Kinser79]

Depends. Women tend to live longer than men--mostly because they take less physically demanding jobs--so many of the lost that survived deep into the last 2T were women. I have faint memories of my lost Great Grandmother but neither of my Great Grandfathers survived past the 1960s.

Based on diary entries in my Great Grandfather's diary (that he kept from when he was about 14 till he was too ill to write, some 50 something years) he considered desegregation the start of the break down of the social order. He actually feared that blacks being allowed to shop in white owned stores and eat in white owned restaurants would eventually force out black owned businesses.

In a way he was right about the result if he was totally off base as to the cause.