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Eric The Green Wrote:The choice was between cyanide and apple juice. We got the poison. That's reason to give a fuck. The nonsense about Hillary wouldn't matter, unless it's your excuse to not give a fuck about where we are now; in deeper doodoo than we've ever been.
Since there's not a damn thing I can do about it, why should I stress out on that issue? Trump for better or worse is the President elect.
Eric Wrote:Same old stuff; I've seen it a dozen times. It made not different to the outcome at all. Hillary got the votes.
So, I'm supposed to support corruption in the DNC. The fact is, the DNC needs a reboot and stress "It's the Economy, Stupid", instead it's current culture wars crap. Look, I voted D down ticket and did nothing for POTUS.
Quote:Woulds shoulda coulda. Yes the DNC and Hillary waged an inadequate campaign. What's new about that for Democrats?
Maybe they can get it right for 2018. Be explicit about opposing NAFTA, TPP, reigning in all of their Silicon Valley bogus H1-B allotments, and get bold about debt free money. Debt accumulation isn't sustainable, but debt free money is , as long as interest rates are free to float. Interest rates need to float since they signal inflation is getting out control. They could also have specific conversion to CO2 free energy sources. That means they're being timid and not boldly countering tinkle down economics.
Quote:You can't move on. The deed has crippled the country and endangered the world.
Why not? I can't fix the mess. I can't make the DNC chuck the superdelegates. I can't make Trump's weird administration just go poof.
Quote:It's quite easy to know that. If Trump doesn't have a mandate, and everyone knows it because he lost the popular vote so badly, then he has less support for his programs, which are horrible, and so are the dufuses he's choosing to carry out his policies and advise him.
See above. I'm not magic.
Quote:No, not even for a moment. That's exactly where you need to move on from. You need to focus on what counts. A few emails do not contradict that fact that we have lost the chance to carry out any helpful policy for what will be a total of ten years by 2020, and have unleashed a madman and his cronies upon the USA and the world to give us nothing but trouble and a rapid train to a banana republic. And we should have been doing something about that trend. Instead we have a leader who want's to make it permanent and irreversible. That's what it gets "back to."
Oh, so I'm supposed to attend local Democratic Party meetings and show 'em shat a bright boy I am! I know zippo on how to pull that off and I'm such a bore, IRL. 
Eric Wrote:You are dreaming. Only a few blue states have ever done anything about this issue. Red states are dominated by religious and economic ideology. Demographics have made no difference at all in Oklahoma voting patterns. They still vote for the worst right-wing assholes, including the guy at the top of the ticket.
You are wrong. Arkansas just passed medical marijuana. That also should jolt Oklahoma. Arkansas and Oklahoma have a long eastern border. Lots of money's gonna be going to Arkansas. That's an addon to Colorado on the other side. Oklahomans are going to making lots of trips from Tulsa to Arkansas. Tulsa's close to that border.
Quote:Rags Wrote:You're not a Millie. Millies and Rags can't afford to live in CA due to too high of house prices. Eric probably got his house before real estate got weirded out. I wouldn't be free 'cause I'd have to pay lots of property tax rent. [Unless I moved to Needles. ] House prices there are OK, but the climate isn't. I'd prefer something opposite of Needles, a place folks don't like because it's cold and snowy. Dunno if there's cheap houses in the Sierra Nevada area in some dinky town there.
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[/url] Eric Wrote:Probably there is. They would be the red counties within blue CA. This isn't an issue about where you live though. It's an issue of coming to grips with the "American Amnesia," as a writer portrayed on PBS tonight said. Without a move back toward government involvement in the economy, our national decline will accelerate.
[url]
I've written lots of stuff that assorted governments can do and also what they should stop doing.
I'm OK with debt free money to be used for infrastructure/green conversion. The FED of course is not needed with that schema. The US treasury prints the money and the Federal government spends it or disburses it to lower governments or individuals as SS checks or even the Medicare starts at zero. You see there's too many parasitic entities that make disbursements inefficient. States can spend infrastructure on making something like a real passenger rail system. Also, I see no need for employer based health insurance rackets. Now that is something that's obsolete. I just wonder how much all of those private insurance premiums add up to and just how nice it would be if I didn't have to mess with them. Also, why is the US not bidding out drug prices/allowing imports from Canada/Mexico? That's stupid as it's a defacto subsidy to Big Pharma. Finally, why does everyone in DC tolerate that F-35 boondoggle? Now, I haven't heard the Democrats talk about that sort of stuff. [I know the Republicans won't ever, ever do it because it pisses in the chearios of a bunch of special interest groups. So there's your government involvement, but I haven't heard that sort of stuff from anyone.
[/url] Quote:The priorities are not soda taxes. The priorities are the larger issues of what kind of country we live in. Republicans = the oligarchy. To confuse the issue by saying the Democrats are just as bad and rig elections, misses this larger issue. The Democrats understand how to get our country back on track. Republicans want to speed up our decline. Worrying about soda taxes means you miss the train.
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I think soda taxes are a mentality of liberal "I know best about bad foodiest". The conservative "I know best variant" is "I know best about vaginas, substances you can put into your body, moonshine, and tobaccy." Moonshine should be legalized since most of it is made in the South. That's a hypocrisy that I admit is annoying. Even Russia has it where moonshine is legal to make as long as it's not sold. Back to the rigging thing. I bet the lamestream media would go apeshit if the Republicans did rigging. Btw, Obama supported the TPP, so the red/blue , R/D dichotomy doesn't hold for everything. Also, if the rigging didn't get exposed, I'm supposed to accept the fact that the DNC plays favorites and has a bunch of unelected party hacks as super delegates. That's not democratic and most tacky. You were complaining about the electoral college as unfair, but super delegates are pretty much the same thing.
It doesn't matter; they were not passed by any state authority. CA does not have soda taxes, and there's no imminent prospect for such. I'm in CA, I would have heard about it. NO, it was a ballot measure in a few cities.
[/url] Quote:And that decision by Gen X was the bad decision.
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No, Older Xer's went to Carter.
That means the Democrats could have engaged older Xer's, but didn't.
[/url] Quote: Yes, too many unions and Democrats in the 1980s fell for the Reagan propaganda that people didn't deserve a living wage; that they should yield to the boss's interests because the benefits would trickle down. Talk about not moving on; this speculation gets us nowhere. It doesn't matter what generation you are in. The problem is that unions went away, and R's have the back bench because the people fell for Republican propaganda. Trickle-down doesn't trickle. So the Gen Xers vote Republican because things failed because of their own decision!
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Yeah, by 1984, things started looking bad for Democrates...
http://ropercenter.cornell.edu/polls/us-...oted-1984/
Looks like most age groups went for Reagan. Such is a 3T attitude. Let there be no rules.
But , then GWB ran in 2000 and the voting changed again.
http://ropercenter.cornell.edu/polls/us-...oted-2000/
Obama: Same thing.
http://ropercenter.cornell.edu/polls/us-...oted-2008/
So, GenX doesn't really lean R. There was a lot of time for the Democrats to do something, but didn't. Nobody can blame R votes on GenX after all. It's all a myth.
Just because the Xer's here like Republicans by no means is a sufficient sample size to grok the actual historical data.
So again, we have what we have now due to the lack of foresight on the part of the Democratic Party. The RNC did have campus outreach while I was in college, but nada from the DNC. The DNC just , well stepped on its dick.
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---Value Added 
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(12-01-2016, 07:01 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote: Quote: Eric the Green] Wow, the margin is approaching 2%, has passed 2.5 million, and California has surpassed Hawaii in the % of the vote for Hillary.
It's December 1, do you know where your horses are? Hint, said horse left the barn on Nov, 9.
Warren Dew Wrote:Give it a year and Clinton will have 100% of the 100 million votes from California.
California has a tad of only a bit above 37,000,000 folks. Some of that is of course too young to vote. If you're counting the resident zombies, then yes, the 100 million votes would work.
the Dems need to realize that they need to quit pandering to the concerns of Left Coast folks like Eric (like gun control) because right now pandering to the Rust Belt is the far more important concern due to the Electoral College. As X_MOX mentioned elsewhere, the Dems lost because of essentially 100,000 voters in the Rust Belt, those 2.5 million people in California essentially don't matter.
#MakeTheDemocratsGreatAgain
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12-02-2016, 01:48 PM
(This post was last modified: 12-02-2016, 01:50 PM by Warren Dew.)
(12-02-2016, 12:08 AM)X_4AD_84 Wrote: (12-01-2016, 07:06 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: (12-01-2016, 06:51 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: (12-01-2016, 06:28 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Wow, the margin is approaching 2%, has passed 2.5 million, and California has surpassed Hawaii in the % of the vote for Hillary.
Give it a year and Clinton will have 100% of the 100 million votes from California.
Ca is counting legally the legal votes from legal citizens. It takes a while to count 14 million plus votes and verify that they are legal votes. Red states that don't care about the people don't take as long, because their method is to make people wait in line while they show ID cards and do all the verification at the polling place.
I went to vote in person early at the registar. I was surprised the huge parking lots were full, and I asked an employee walking along about why the county building was so full, and he said "it's the election." Lots of people work at the registrar's office to make sure the vote is conducted and counted properly. I'm sorry you live in a state where they don't do this, but don't blame California, and please don't believe a word that our stupid president-elect says; he's a total dufus, a scumbag and a dirt ball. And those are kind words for him.
Today the Chron had Bay Area stats on vote by county. Trump was in the 15 - 30% range in the 9 counties. The most conservative was Solano, that was 30ish. SF and Alameda in the teens, most in the low 20s.
I reckon SoCal was similar. Hell, Clinton won Orange County. Freakin' Orange County! There were enough #NeverTrump Reps and Indies there to garner that result. OC does not have enough Dems for that result.
Warren just cannot accept the nauseating, visceral reactions that many here in CA had to Trump. We have a real divide now between the Far West and many other places.
I live in a sanctuary city which voted 10% Trump, in a state which voted 30% Trump. I know all about the nauseating, visceral reactions to Trump and also how irrational they are. Heck, I spent hours talking my dad down.
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12-02-2016, 01:52 PM
(This post was last modified: 12-02-2016, 01:57 PM by Warren Dew.)
(12-02-2016, 07:35 AM)Odin Wrote: (12-01-2016, 07:01 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote: Quote: Eric the Green] Wow, the margin is approaching 2%, has passed 2.5 million, and California has surpassed Hawaii in the % of the vote for Hillary.
It's December 1, do you know where your horses are? Hint, said horse left the barn on Nov, 9.
Warren Dew Wrote:Give it a year and Clinton will have 100% of the 100 million votes from California.
California has a tad of only a bit above 37,000,000 folks. Some of that is of course too young to vote. If you're counting the resident zombies, then yes, the 100 million votes would work.
the Dems need to realize that they need to quit pandering to the concerns of Left Coast folks like Eric (like gun control) because right now pandering to the Rust Belt is the far more important concern due to the Electoral College. As X_MOX mentioned elsewhere, the Dems lost because of essentially 100,000 voters in the Rust Belt, those 2.5 million people in California essentially don't matter.
Very good point, and another good argument for the electoral college. Looks like you can win the popular vote by pandering to your base, which tends to result in extreme government. Having to pay attention to the politically neglected Rust Belt as well as their base regions helps ensure that the person who wins is more moderate.
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12-02-2016, 02:11 PM
(This post was last modified: 12-02-2016, 02:41 PM by Classic-Xer.)
(12-02-2016, 07:35 AM)Odin Wrote: (12-01-2016, 07:01 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote: Quote: Eric the Green] Wow, the margin is approaching 2%, has passed 2.5 million, and California has surpassed Hawaii in the % of the vote for Hillary.
It's December 1, do you know where your horses are? Hint, said horse left the barn on Nov, 9.
Warren Dew Wrote:Give it a year and Clinton will have 100% of the 100 million votes from California.
California has a tad of only a bit above 37,000,000 folks. Some of that is of course too young to vote. If you're counting the resident zombies, then yes, the 100 million votes would work.
the Dems need to realize that they need to quit pandering to the concerns of Left Coast folks like Eric (like gun control) because right now pandering to the Rust Belt is the far more important concern due to the Electoral College. As X_MOX mentioned elsewhere, the Dems lost because of essentially 100,000 voters in the Rust Belt, those 2.5 million people in California essentially don't matter.
Pandering isn't going to work. It's going to take a lot more than pandering at this point. People are tired of all the pandering going on with the left. The people are looking for results. As far as California, who cares about California or what Californians think of middle America. California has/will have major issues of its own that aren't/isn't being adequately addressed. My brother left the F'd up state of California several years ago. My brother is the type who moves ahead of the pack. California has major issues of its own coming down the road. We don't want to be politically tied up with California's issues and the issues of child adults (chidults) and see billions taken away from our schools and roads . What about Disney land? What about Hollywood and all its movie stars? What about the hot chicks who wear skimpy bikini's that we see on its beaches? What about pot and all the groovy people associated with its use? What about them? Can we afford to loose/ cut bait with them? Have you ever seen the movie Fast Times At Ridgemont High thirty years after you saw it in a movie theater and noticed all the values that were portrayed as being in play that no longer mattered to you? The Democrats lost 100,000 voters who won't be coming back and stand to loose 100,000's more who weren't sure about Trump as a leader. How many Democratic Senate seats are coming up soon?
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12-02-2016, 02:21 PM
(This post was last modified: 12-02-2016, 02:24 PM by Eric the Green.)
There can be no further good arguments for the system designed to keep the slaveowners in power. Hillary Clinton won this election by about 3 million votes, and yet we are stuck with a tyrant because of the mistakes of 70,000 or so deceived Rust Belt victims. We could have had an intelligent, capable, experienced, compassionate, dedicated, moderate president, who would have acted on the actual concerns of ALL the people INCLUDING those in the Rust Belt; instead we are enslaved to the worst and most extremist "president" in our history, concerned only with himself; in order to protect the interests of 1789 slaveowners, and to allow a minority party to keep giving us the worst presidents in our history to benefit the 1%. There is no argument left for the electoral college at all. This is not some kind of fluke, like in the year 2000. This is a huge, indelible, creepy stain, both on the peculiar institution and on America.
We are stuck with it because of the greedy slaveowners who now rule Amerikkka. The only issue is what we do from here. There are only two answers. Resist, or leave. If you don't think the concerns of 9 million Californians matter, and those of 70,000 deceived voters in the Rust Belt are the only ones who do matter, that attitude is a good recipe for secession. Only 32% of California voters wanted the Drumpenfuhrer. We voted that way to send a powerful message. Message sent. We repudiate the Drumpenfuhrer, and he is not our president. We reject the CEO of America Inc.
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(12-02-2016, 02:11 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (12-02-2016, 07:35 AM)Odin Wrote: (12-01-2016, 07:01 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote: Quote: Eric the Green] Wow, the margin is approaching 2%, has passed 2.5 million, and California has surpassed Hawaii in the % of the vote for Hillary.
It's December 1, do you know where your horses are? Hint, said horse left the barn on Nov, 9.
Warren Dew Wrote:Give it a year and Clinton will have 100% of the 100 million votes from California.
California has a tad of only a bit above 37,000,000 folks. Some of that is of course too young to vote. If you're counting the resident zombies, then yes, the 100 million votes would work.
the Dems need to realize that they need to quit pandering to the concerns of Left Coast folks like Eric (like gun control) because right now pandering to the Rust Belt is the far more important concern due to the Electoral College. As X_MOX mentioned elsewhere, the Dems lost because of essentially 100,000 voters in the Rust Belt, those 2.5 million people in California essentially don't matter.
Pandering isn't going to work. It's going to take a lot more than pandering at this point. People are tired of all the pandering going on with the left. The people are looking for results. As far as California, who cares about California or what Californians think of middle America. California has/will have major issues of its own that aren't/isn't being adequately addressed. My brother left the F'd up state of California several years ago. My brother is the type who moves ahead of the pack. California has major issues coming done the road. We don't want to be politically tied up with California's issues and the issues of child adults (chidults). What about Disney land? What about Hollywood and all its movie stars? What about the hot chicks who wear skimpy bikini's that we see on its beaches? What about its pot and all the groovy people associated with its use? Have you ever seen the movie Fast Times At Ridgemont High and see all the values that were portrayed? The Democrats lost 100,000 voters who won't be coming back and stand to loose 100,000's more who weren't sure about Trump as a leader. How many Democratic Senate seats are coming up soon?
California? That's where most of your movies come from. That's where the initial innovation in computer chips comes from.
But start censoring the movies for political content and much of the American film industry will relocate to some place that respects freedom of thought. Make America the sort of country where a software engineer can make a spectacular living but his kids can expect an education suitable only as preparation to be a farm laborer or retail clerk... and those software engineers will stay in China, India, or South Korea. Silicon Valley would become another Detroit with relics of a bygone era of prosperity.
As for 'childults' -- our incoming President is a prime example.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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12-02-2016, 02:43 PM
(This post was last modified: 12-02-2016, 02:57 PM by Eric the Green.)
(12-02-2016, 01:13 AM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote: So, I'm supposed to support corruption in the DNC. The fact is, the DNC needs a reboot and stress "It's the Economy, Stupid", instead it's current culture wars crap. Look, I voted D down ticket and did nothing for POTUS.
You're not getting the point. This is not about how YOU voted, or what the Democrats didn't do to defeat the indefeatable, charming actor with a 20-6 horoscope score 36 years ago. This is about listening to what the voters said now. The voters said we don't want President Pussygrabber, and we got him anyway.
Quote:Maybe they can get it right for 2018. Be explicit about opposing NAFTA, TPP, reigning in all of their Silicon Valley bogus H1-B allotments, and get bold about debt free money. Debt accumulation isn't sustainable, but debt free money is , as long as interest rates are free to float. Interest rates need to float since they signal inflation is getting out control. They could also have specific conversion to CO2 free energy sources. That means they're being timid and not boldly countering tinkle down economics.
We and you are stuck with Drumpf the Grump for 8 years, pal. There's nothing you or I or anyone can do now to enact these policies, except organize to defeat the Drumpfsters in future elections.
Quote:Why not? I can't fix the mess. I can't make the DNC chuck the superdelegates. I can't make Trump's weird administration just go poof.
You can't move on from this. We are stuck with this for at least 6 years. The superdelegates is another red herring. They favored Hillary in 2008 too; didn't you know that? If Sanders had won the popular vote, half of them would have switched to him, just like they did to Obama. As long as you don't recognize the message sent by the voters in the popular vote, there is no moving on.
Quote:Oh, so I'm supposed to attend local Democratic Party meetings and show 'em what a bright boy I am! I know zippo on how to pull that off and I'm such a bore, IRL.
I'm not sure exactly what to do either. We'll have to play it by ear for now. But we need to organize.
Quote:You are wrong. Arkansas just passed medical marijuana. That also should jolt Oklahoma. Arkansas and Oklahoma have a long eastern border. Lots of money's gonna be going to Arkansas. That's an addon to Colorado on the other side. Oklahomans are going to making lots of trips from Tulsa to Arkansas. Tulsa's close to that border.
I guess someone COULD say you know zippo, when you continue posting stuff like that. I don't think you have an excuse, myself. You know a lot about economics. But there is no such law passed in Arkansas.
https://ballotpedia.org/Arkansas_Medical...e_7_(2016)
The Arkansas Medical Cannabis Act, also known as Issue 7, was not on the November 8, 2016, ballot in Arkansas as an initiated state statute. The Arkansas Supreme Court struck Issue 7 from the ballot in Benca v. Martin on October 27, 2016, on the basis of invalid signatures.[1] The measure appeared on the ballot, but results were not counted.
Rags Wrote:I've written lots of stuff that assorted governments can do and also what they should stop doing.
I'm OK with debt free money to be used for infrastructure/green conversion. The FED of course is not needed with that schema. The US treasury prints the money and the Federal government spends it or disburses it to lower governments or individuals as SS checks or even the Medicare starts at zero. You see there's too many parasitic entities that make disbursements inefficient. States can spend infrastructure on making something like a real passenger rail system. Also, I see no need for employer based health insurance rackets. Now that is something that's obsolete. I just wonder how much all of those private insurance premiums add up to and just how nice it would be if I didn't have to mess with them. Also, why is the US not bidding out drug prices/allowing imports from Canada/Mexico? That's stupid as it's a defacto subsidy to Big Pharma. Finally, why does everyone in DC tolerate that F-35 boondoggle? Now, I haven't heard the Democrats talk about that sort of stuff. [I know the Republicans won't ever, ever do it because it pisses in the chearios of a bunch of special interest groups. So there's your government involvement, but I haven't heard that sort of stuff from anyone.
Why indeed; why indeed. Remember all this when we have a small chance of implementing some of it after 2022.
Quote:I think soda taxes are a mentality of liberal "I know best about bad foodiest". The conservative "I know best variant" is "I know best about vaginas, substances you can put into your body, moonshine, and tobaccy." Moonshine should be legalized since most of it is made in the South. That's a hypocrisy that I admit is annoying. Even Russia has it where moonshine is legal to make as long as it's not sold. Back to the rigging thing. I bet the lamestream media would go apeshit if the Republicans did rigging. Btw, Obama supported the TPP, so the red/blue , R/D dichotomy doesn't hold for everything. Also, if the rigging didn't get exposed, I'm supposed to accept the fact that the DNC plays favorites and has a bunch of unelected party hacks as super delegates. That's not democratic and most tacky. You were complaining about the electoral college as unfair, but super delegates are pretty much the same thing.
One thing I have confidence you CAN do if you try. Get those irrelevant red herrings out of the way, and focus on the real ideas such as you wrote in the paragraph above this one.
Quote:No, Older Xer's went to Carter.
That means the Democrats could have engaged older Xer's, but didn't.
Not according to stats I know about, and posted here before. Those older Xers were the most conservative generation among any of them, and the Jones people have been the most reliable GOP base most of the time ever since. You helped make your own bed.
Quote:Looks like most age groups went for Reagan. Such is a 3T attitude. Let there be no rules.......
So, GenX doesn't really lean R. There was a lot of time for the Democrats to do something, but didn't. Nobody can blame R votes on GenX after all. It's all a myth.
Gen X is not to blame anymore. I didn't bring up the generations blame game; you did. It's not about generations now. I don't blame Generation X. Deceived voters come in all ages. We all have to unite to recover our country, or leave.
Quote:Just because the Xer's here like Republicans by no means is a sufficient sample size to grok the actual historical data.
So again, we have what we have now due to the lack of foresight on the part of the Democratic Party. The RNC did have campus outreach while I was in college, but nada from the DNC. The DNC just , well stepped on its dick.
The DNC is not above criticism for its behavior. You have to admit though that Oklahoma is about the least likely state to go blue. But, I don't disagree; with all their money they could reach out everywhere. It's the electoral college again. It means the election is held in a dozen states, and both parties are only interested in those states or their concerns. That isn't even a republic. It's a scheme to protect slaveowners. And it's time for us slaves to rebel.
To paraphrase Bill Clinton's victorious saying in 1992:
"It's the electoral college, stupid."
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12-02-2016, 02:56 PM
(This post was last modified: 12-02-2016, 02:57 PM by Odin.)
(12-02-2016, 01:52 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: (12-02-2016, 07:35 AM)Odin Wrote: (12-01-2016, 07:01 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote: Quote: Eric the Green] Wow, the margin is approaching 2%, has passed 2.5 million, and California has surpassed Hawaii in the % of the vote for Hillary.
It's December 1, do you know where your horses are? Hint, said horse left the barn on Nov, 9.
Warren Dew Wrote:Give it a year and Clinton will have 100% of the 100 million votes from California.
California has a tad of only a bit above 37,000,000 folks. Some of that is of course too young to vote. If you're counting the resident zombies, then yes, the 100 million votes would work.
the Dems need to realize that they need to quit pandering to the concerns of Left Coast folks like Eric (like gun control) because right now pandering to the Rust Belt is the far more important concern due to the Electoral College. As X_MOX mentioned elsewhere, the Dems lost because of essentially 100,000 voters in the Rust Belt, those 2.5 million people in California essentially don't matter.
Very good point, and another good argument for the electoral college. Looks like you can win the popular vote by pandering to your base, which tends to result in extreme government. Having to pay attention to the politically neglected Rust Belt as well as their base regions helps ensure that the person who wins is more moderate.
The problem with your reasoning is that Clinton WAS the moderate.
#MakeTheDemocratsGreatAgain
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12-02-2016, 03:02 PM
(This post was last modified: 12-02-2016, 03:03 PM by Eric the Green.)
(12-02-2016, 02:11 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (12-02-2016, 07:35 AM)Odin Wrote: (12-01-2016, 07:01 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote: Quote: Eric the Green] Wow, the margin is approaching 2%, has passed 2.5 million, and California has surpassed Hawaii in the % of the vote for Hillary.
It's December 1, do you know where your horses are? Hint, said horse left the barn on Nov, 9.
Warren Dew Wrote:Give it a year and Clinton will have 100% of the 100 million votes from California.
California has a tad of only a bit above 37,000,000 folks. Some of that is of course too young to vote. If you're counting the resident zombies, then yes, the 100 million votes would work.
the Dems need to realize that they need to quit pandering to the concerns of Left Coast folks like Eric (like gun control) because right now pandering to the Rust Belt is the far more important concern due to the Electoral College. As X_MOX mentioned elsewhere, the Dems lost because of essentially 100,000 voters in the Rust Belt, those 2.5 million people in California essentially don't matter.
Pandering isn't going to work. It's going to take a lot more than pandering at this point. People are tired of all the pandering going on with the left. The people are looking for results. As far as California, who cares about California or what Californians think of middle America. California has/will have major issues of its own that aren't/isn't being adequately addressed. My brother left the F'd up state of California several years ago. My brother is the type who moves ahead of the pack. California has major issues of its own coming down the road. We don't want to be politically tied up with California's issues and the issues of child adults (chidults) and see billions taken away from our schools and roads . What about Disney land? What about Hollywood and all its movie stars? What about the hot chicks who wear skimpy bikini's that we see on its beaches? What about pot and all the groovy people associated with its use? What about them? Can we afford to loose/ cut bait with them? Have you ever seen the movie Fast Times At Ridgemont High thirty years after you saw it in a movie theater and noticed all the values that were portrayed as being in play that no longer mattered to you? The Democrats lost 100,000 voters who won't be coming back and stand to loose 100,000's more who weren't sure about Trump as a leader. How many Democratic Senate seats are coming up soon?
There's no chance of Democrats taking the Senate in 2018, and lost seats are pretty likely. However, CA knows best. We aren't going to take billions from our schools and roads. That's the GOP approach. And if you don't want to be cool on the beach and smoke pot, that's your choice if you don't want to be groovy like us. So what?
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(12-02-2016, 02:21 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: There can be no further good arguments for the system designed to keep the slaveowners in power. Hillary Clinton won this election by about 3 million votes, and yet we are stuck with a tyrant because of the mistakes of 70,000 or so deceived Rust Belt victims. We could have had an intelligent, capable, experienced, compassionate, dedicated, moderate president, who would have acted on the actual concerns of ALL the people INCLUDING those in the Rust Belt; instead we are enslaved to the worst and most extremist "president" in our history, concerned only with himself; in order to protect the interests of 1789 slaveowners, and to allow a minority party to keep giving us the worst presidents in our history to benefit the 1%. There is no argument left for the electoral college at all. This is not some kind of fluke, like in the year 2000. This is a huge, indelible, creepy stain, both on the peculiar institution and on America.
We are stuck with it because of the greedy slaveowners who now rule Amerikkka. The only issue is what we do from here. There are only two answers. Resist, or leave. If you don't think the concerns of 9 million Californians matter, and those of 70,000 deceived voters in the Rust Belt are the only ones who do matter, that attitude is a good recipe for secession. Only 32% of California voters wanted the Drumpenfuhrer. We voted that way to send a powerful message. Message sent. We repudiate the Drumpenfuhrer, and he is not our president. We reject the CEO of America Inc.
The EC came about partially to prevent a demagogue like Trump getting elected by a direct popular vote and also because politics at the beginning of the republic was much more regional and there were concerns that people in each state would just vote for their local candidates so the idea was developed that people would vote for electors, instead, who would then go and argue over a compromise candidate all the states could agree on.
Of course this system never worked as originally intended and by the election of Andrew Jackson we arrived essentially at the farce we have today. The system meant to stop a someone like Trump has made him President, instead.
#MakeTheDemocratsGreatAgain
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(12-02-2016, 02:56 PM)Odin Wrote: The problem with your reasoning is that Clinton WAS the moderate.
The reason the left lost was because they thought Clinton was in any way moderate.
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(12-02-2016, 03:16 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: (12-02-2016, 02:56 PM)Odin Wrote: The problem with your reasoning is that Clinton WAS the moderate.
The reason the left lost was because they thought Clinton was in any way moderate.
So the Left lost because they were right about something, then?
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(12-02-2016, 02:27 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: (12-02-2016, 02:11 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (12-02-2016, 07:35 AM)Odin Wrote: (12-01-2016, 07:01 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote: Quote: Eric the Green] Wow, the margin is approaching 2%, has passed 2.5 million, and California has surpassed Hawaii in the % of the vote for Hillary.
It's December 1, do you know where your horses are? Hint, said horse left the barn on Nov, 9.
Warren Dew Wrote:Give it a year and Clinton will have 100% of the 100 million votes from California.
California has a tad of only a bit above 37,000,000 folks. Some of that is of course too young to vote. If you're counting the resident zombies, then yes, the 100 million votes would work.
the Dems need to realize that they need to quit pandering to the concerns of Left Coast folks like Eric (like gun control) because right now pandering to the Rust Belt is the far more important concern due to the Electoral College. As X_MOX mentioned elsewhere, the Dems lost because of essentially 100,000 voters in the Rust Belt, those 2.5 million people in California essentially don't matter.
Pandering isn't going to work. It's going to take a lot more than pandering at this point. People are tired of all the pandering going on with the left. The people are looking for results. As far as California, who cares about California or what Californians think of middle America. California has/will have major issues of its own that aren't/isn't being adequately addressed. My brother left the F'd up state of California several years ago. My brother is the type who moves ahead of the pack. California has major issues coming done the road. We don't want to be politically tied up with California's issues and the issues of child adults (chidults). What about Disney land? What about Hollywood and all its movie stars? What about the hot chicks who wear skimpy bikini's that we see on its beaches? What about its pot and all the groovy people associated with its use? Have you ever seen the movie Fast Times At Ridgemont High and see all the values that were portrayed? The Democrats lost 100,000 voters who won't be coming back and stand to loose 100,000's more who weren't sure about Trump as a leader. How many Democratic Senate seats are coming up soon?
California? That's where most of your movies come from. That's where the initial innovation in computer chips comes from.
But start censoring the movies for political content and much of the American film industry will relocate to some place that respects freedom of thought. Make America the sort of country where a software engineer can make a spectacular living but his kids can expect an education suitable only as preparation to be a farm laborer or retail clerk... and those software engineers will stay in China, India, or South Korea. Silicon Valley would become another Detroit with relics of a bygone era of prosperity.
As for 'childults' -- our incoming President is a prime example.
I assume upper end engineers would pay the addition cost to send their kids to private upper end schools as most of their peers do now. My kid isn't an Einstein. But, I'm sure that she could be a way better teacher than you if she wants/decides to become one someday. She has passion and conviction like her father. Right now, she see's way to much BS associated with teaching and with the school in general to seriously consider it as a career choice. I know that teaching is in her genes. Her grand mother's side was loaded with teachers and college professors as well as successful entrepreneurs of various types. Her grand fathers side was loaded with entrepreneurs and various management types.
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(12-02-2016, 03:30 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: (12-02-2016, 03:16 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: (12-02-2016, 02:56 PM)Odin Wrote: The problem with your reasoning is that Clinton WAS the moderate.
The reason the left lost was because they thought Clinton was in any way moderate.
So the Left lost because they were right about something, then?
The left lost because the left isn't viewed as being moderate. Clinton lost because she associated herself to much as being with the left. Now that she's gone and traditional Democrats have no one left, you are free to move as far to the left as you'd like as long as you don't start seizing peoples property or start treating Americans like the Jews and the Bosnian's were treated in Europe. How many fascist minded blues live in California? How socialist minded blues live in California? How many communist minded blues live in California? How many American minded blues live in California? The way I see it, if we are going to have a civil war then let it be fought in your state and Playdudes state while the American states go about their business.
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(12-02-2016, 04:40 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (12-02-2016, 03:30 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: (12-02-2016, 03:16 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: (12-02-2016, 02:56 PM)Odin Wrote: The problem with your reasoning is that Clinton WAS the moderate.
The reason the left lost was because they thought Clinton was in any way moderate.
So the Left lost because they were right about something, then?
The left lost because the left isn't viewed as being moderate. Clinton lost because she associated herself to much as being with the left. Now that she's gone and traditional Democrats have no one left, you are free to move as far to the left as you'd like as long as you don't start seizing peoples property or start treating Americans like the Jews and the Bosnian's were treated in Europe. How many fascist minded blues live in California? How socialist minded blues live in California? How many communist minded blues live in California? How many American minded blues live in California? The way I see it, if we are going to have a civil war then let it be fought in your state and Playdudes state while the American states go about their business.
If that were to happen, going about your business would be standing in a soup line at the mercy of the Blue States' foreign aid to backward countries.
Once a t-bagger, and now a Trump Chump, all the same, Cynic, just another clueless sheeple being conned once again by your financial elite masters.
GDP is now over 3%, and we've reached full employment this past month. The exact opposite of the shit sandwich Bush left Obama. Let's see how long before the Orange Anus drives us back into the ditch this time. And how many of you Trump Chumps wise up.
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12-02-2016, 05:31 PM
(This post was last modified: 12-02-2016, 05:47 PM by playwrite.)
(12-02-2016, 04:39 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote: (12-02-2016, 03:16 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: (12-02-2016, 02:56 PM)Odin Wrote: The problem with your reasoning is that Clinton WAS the moderate.
The reason the left lost was because they thought Clinton was in any way moderate.
No, it's mostly because Clinton sucked in general as a candidate. Poor ability to connect (that's typically something hard wired into a person's brain, they either have it or they don't). Lots of baggage due to association with Slick Willie. Plus other issues (especially when compared with an obvious "knows how to energize and connect with the crowd" sales puke like Trump).
Now, speaking of polity and ideology, it was actually Clinton's perceived associations with corporate people, the Establishment, what have you - in other words, what revolutionaries and other radicals term "the oligarchy" - that also harmed her. In an election where it was all about crowds carrying pitchforks (figuratively speaking), someone as ordinary and milquetoast as Clinton had a serious headwind. Obviously she could not overcome it. It was anything but radicalism / New Left / Far Left ideology that did Clinton in.
Clinton's popular vote victory over Trump is approaching and likely to exceed 3 million, close if not exceeding the margin that Bush bested Kerry with. This wasn't a question of Clinton's popularity with a majority of voters; it's that very few outside of Trump could believe so many people in the midWest would let themselves become Trump Chumps. Trump knew because all grifters know their marks.
From street hustlers to billion dollar a year hedge fund managers, my city is stuff with shXtheads like Trump. We tried to warn the chumps but they were too caught up in their Clinton Hate Derangement Syndrome.
Some of the Chumps have started growing a brain -
The Trump Faithful Are Already Expressing Buyer's Remorse
- but too bad, so sad, it's too late.
With the coming devastation to their health coverage, many of them are literally going to die as a result of being Trump Chumps. Maybe now what they had in mind for their drain the swamp meme, ey? 
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(12-02-2016, 04:40 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (12-02-2016, 03:30 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: (12-02-2016, 03:16 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: (12-02-2016, 02:56 PM)Odin Wrote: The problem with your reasoning is that Clinton WAS the moderate.
The reason the left lost was because they thought Clinton was in any way moderate.
So the Left lost because they were right about something, then?
The left lost because the left isn't viewed as being moderate. Clinton lost because she associated herself to much as being aligned with the left. Now that she's gone and traditional Democrats have no one left to run, you are free to move as far to the left as you'd like as long as you don't start eliminating American rights, seizing American people's property and start treating Americans like the Jews and the Bosnian's were treated in Europe. How many fascist minded blues live in California? How socialist minded blues live in California? How many communist minded blues live in California? How many American minded blues still live in California? The way I see it, if we are going to have a civil war then it's best if it were fought in your state and Playdudes state while the rest of the American states go about their business.
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Rags Wrote:Ragnarök_62
So, I'm supposed to support corruption in the DNC. The fact is, the DNC needs a reboot and stress "It's the Economy, Stupid", instead it's current culture wars crap. Look, I voted D down ticket and did nothing for POTUS.
Eric The Green
You're not getting the point. This is not about how YOU voted, or what the Democrats didn't do to defeat the indefeatable, charming actor with a 20-6 horoscope score 36 years ago. This is about listening to what the voters said [i Wrote:now[/i]. The voters said we don't want President Pussygrabber, and we got him anyway.
It's the point since my one vote is the only thing I can control when it comes to elections. Like from tiny raindrops flow to mighty rivers flow sort of stuff.
Quote:Maybe they can get it right for 2018. Be explicit about opposing NAFTA, TPP, reigning in all of their Silicon Valley bogus H1-B allotments, and get bold about debt free money. Debt accumulation isn't sustainable, but debt free money is , as long as interest rates are free to float. Interest rates need to float since they signal inflation is getting out control. They could also have specific conversion to CO2 free energy sources. That means they're being timid and not boldly countering tinkle down economics.
I'm not sure about that. If the Dems get back to the garden and off the SJW pontificating I bet they'll do better.
Quote:We and you are stuck with Drumpf the Grump for 8 years, pal. There's nothing you or I or anyone can do now to enact these policies, except organize to defeat the Drumpfsters in future elections.
The future guarantees nothing...
Quote:Why not? I can't fix the mess. I can't make the DNC chuck the superdelegates. I can't make Trump's weird administration just go poof.
Quote:You can't move on from this. We are stuck with this for at least 6 years. The superdelegates is another red herring. They favored Hillary in 2008 too; didn't you know that? If Sanders had won the popular vote, half of them would have switched to him, just like they did to Obama. As long as you don't recognize the message sent by the voters in the popular vote, there is no moving on.
I think the message, considering the rust belt was "it's the economy stupid".
Rags Wrote:Oh, so I'm supposed to attend local Democratic Party meetings and show 'em what a bright boy I am! I know zippo on how to pull that off and I'm such a bore, IRL.
Quote:I'm not sure exactly what to do either. We'll have to play it by ear for now. But we need to organize.
How about the DNC cleaning up their act first. Like who is it here on the message board who's complaining about democratic principles? Superdelegates are the opposite of democratic principles. A bunch of party hacks is so 1930's.
Rags Wrote:You are wrong. Arkansas just passed medical marijuana. That also should jolt Oklahoma. Arkansas and Oklahoma have a long eastern border. Lots of money's gonna be going to Arkansas. That's an addon to Colorado on the other side. Oklahomans are going to making lots of trips from Tulsa to Arkansas. Tulsa's close to that border.
I guess someone COULD say you know zippo, when you continue posting stuff like that. I don't think you have an excuse, myself. You know a lot about economics. But there is no such law passed in Arkansas.
https://ballotpedia.org/Arkansas_Medical...e_7_(2016)
[/quot Wrote:Wrong again.
http://blog.norml.org/2016/11/09/arkansa...marijuana/ Issue 6 is what passed and that's what matters. Arkansas is a neighboring state, so I have to know what's going down there. It's like Colorado, another neighboring state. I have some hopes that Texas will be next and that should be the tipping point. Once Texas joins the enlightened set of states wrt weed, then so much of Oklahoma's border mileage will have weed available that enforcement collapses. I'm not holding my breath for Kansas though.
Quote:The Arkansas Medical Cannabis Act, also known as Issue 7, was not on the November 8, 2016, ballot in Arkansas as an initiated state statute. The Arkansas Supreme Court struck Issue 7 from the ballot in Benca v. Martin on October 27, 2016, on the basis of invalid signatures.[1] The measure appeared on the ballot, but results were not counted.
It's issue 6, like I mentioned above. I'll be sure to sign on to [url="http://kgou.org/post/oklahomas-pot-proponents-gearing-2018-medical-marijuana-vote] this [/url] though.
[quote='Eric']
Why indeed; why indeed. Remember all this when we have a small chance of implementing some of it after 2022.
Yeah, I have no idea why the Democrats can't do at least some of this stuff.
Quote:Rags Wrote:I think soda taxes are a mentality of liberal "I know best about bad foodiest". The conservative "I know best variant" is "I know best about vaginas, substances you can put into your body, moonshine, and tobaccy." Moonshine should be legalized since most of it is made in the South. That's a hypocrisy that I admit is annoying. Even Russia has it where moonshine is legal to make as long as it's not sold. Back to the rigging thing. I bet the lamestream media would go apeshit if the Republicans did rigging. Btw, Obama supported the TPP, so the red/blue , R/D dichotomy doesn't hold for everything. Also, if the rigging didn't get exposed, I'm supposed to accept the fact that the DNC plays favorites and has a bunch of unelected party hacks as super delegates. That's not democratic and most tacky. You were complaining about the electoral college as unfair, but super delegates are pretty much the same thing.
Eric Wrote:One thing I have confidence you CAN do if you try. Get those irrelevant red herrings out of the way, and focus on the real ideas such as you wrote in the paragraph above this one.
What Red Herrings?
Quote:No, Older Xer's went to Carter.
That means the Democrats could have engaged older Xer's, but didn't.
Quote:Not according to stats I know about, and posted here before. Those older Xers were the most conservative generation among any of them, and the Jones people have been the most reliable GOP base most of the time ever since. You helped make your own bed.
Sources please. I showed my sources.
Quote:[quote]
Looks like most age groups went for Reagan. Such is a 3T attitude. Let there be no rules.......
So, GenX doesn't really lean R. There was a lot of time for the Democrats to do something, but didn't. Nobody can blame R votes on GenX after all. It's all a myth.
[/quote]
Quote:Gen X is not to blame anymore. I didn't bring up the generations blame game; you did. It's not about generations now. I don't blame Generation X. Deceived voters come in all ages. We all have to unite to recover our country, or leave.
I didn't "blame" anyone. I just presented some data from Roper to show that GenX doesn't always push the R button.
Quote:Just because the Xer's here like Republicans by no means is a sufficient sample size to grok the actual historical data.
So again, we have what we have now due to the lack of foresight on the part of the Democratic Party. The RNC did have campus outreach while I was in college, but nada from the DNC. The DNC just , well stepped on its dick.
Quote:The DNC is not above criticism for its behavior. You have to admit though that Oklahoma is about the least likely state to go blue. But, I don't disagree; with all their money they could reach out everywhere. It's the electoral college again. It means the election is held in a dozen states, and both parties are only interested in those states or their concerns. That isn't even a republic. It's a scheme to protect slave owners. And it's time for us slaves to rebel.
If the electoral college didn't exist then the election would be held in the top 12 most populous states.
Quote:To paraphrase Bill Clinton's victorious saying in 1992:
"It's the electoral college, stupid."
It should be it's geography , stupid. It's just this time that the rust belt switched.
---Value Added
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12-02-2016, 06:10 PM
(This post was last modified: 12-02-2016, 06:11 PM by The Wonkette.)
(12-02-2016, 05:31 PM)playwrite Wrote: Clinton's popular vote victory over Trump is approaching and likely to exceed 3 million, close if not exceeding the margin that Bush bested Kerry with. This wasn't a question of Clinton's popularity with a majority of voters; it's that very few outside of Trump could believe so many people in the midWest would let themselves become Trump Chumps. Trump knew because all grifters know their marks.
I don't believe that that the Midwest voters turned to Trump. I understand that fewer people in those close states voted for Trump than voted for Romney in 2012. The problem was that many of Obama's voters in 2008 and 2012 sat home. A handful voted for Stein, but the bigger problem was that enough stayed home that Trump won Michigan, Wisconsin, Ohio, and Pennsylvania.
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