Generational Dynamics World View

[David Horn]

(08-31-2021, 03:47 AM)justpassingthrough Wrote: It's been several years since I posted here, and my views on the cyclical theories have continued to evolve. The thought I have now is that today bears a startling resemblance to the late 1970s. And that leads me to think that if you want to know what a "Crisis" is going to look like, you have to look at the end of the preceding "Awakening". Meaning, this is not a replay of the Revolutionary War, the Civil War, or WWII, as we all speculated for years. If you had to give this Crisis a name, the best one available is probably "Jimmy Carter". On steroids. 

Is this the late '70s? No, I don't think so. They do share a resonance as a "fin de siecle" -- the late 70s ushering out the 2T and the present ushering out the 4T. We're still defing what this end will be and the new start to folow as well, but this era and '70s have nothing else in common I can see.

JPT Wrote:I think it would be fair to call WWI the end of the previous Awakening, and WWII was the climax of the Crisis. The technologies and totalitarian ideologies that produced WWII were born in the preceding Progressive Era, and produced WWI, the USSR, eugenics, human flight, prohibition, and so on by the end of that Awakening. 

So we have been, stupidly, for years, predicting something that looks like past Crises. When we already know what the issues are. All you have to do is look at the 1960s and 1970s. Mao-inspired neo-Marxist identity politics, cultural revolution and terrorism, economic and cultural decline, the disintegration and demoralization of American society, and of American geopolitical standing, allowed by widespread narcissistic hedonism, greed and corruption. That's Boomers. Always has been, always will be.

Sorry, but you don't get to choose the leading-edge issues this time, any more than the last 4T selected it's precursors. First, cultural decline is still TBD (we may well be in a renaissance, just not one you recognize). Economic decline can be attributed to neoliberalism, which has roots in the first Gilded Age, not the Boomer generation. The rest has litle to do with America and the West, though both much of the East and Russia may be affected.

JPT Wrote:Economic crashes, pandemics, and technological disruption are the kinds of things that happen throughout history. What is unique to the current moment is the response to those things by the current generational constellation. S&H often seemed to suggest that these generations would "rise to the occasion" and become something they never were before. Nope. Boomers are Boomers. This is the world they created. In response to the 2008 crash (which I now commit to as the beginning of the 4T), the preceding Awakening imposed itself on the world in full force, in the form of Barack Obama. He was the embodiment and messiah of everything the Awakening was about. So instead of fixing the economy, we got Obamacare and anti-American, intersectional identity politics. And now we fly BLM and rainbow flags at American embassies while the world laughs at us. 

We Boomers are bifurcated. The Progeressive Boomers are working to settle the issues of the day. The reactionary Boomers are planning to return to an imagined past. I know, many of my friends live in their own private LaLaLand, and expecting much of them is a thorough waste of time. What Progress we make will be done by the Millennials, who are finally starting to get the message that it's them or no one. We'll have to see if that takes hold or ennui sets in.

JPT Wrote:The economy is in shambles, the US is incompetent in foreign affairs and the society is disintegrating domestically, while the crusaders of the Awakening ride triumphantly over the cliff. I am deeply disturbed by the actions of the "ruling elite" over the last 13 years, and the last two years, particularly in Washington, Silicon Valley and blue state governments. But I increasingly see the real end game here being one of delusional, megalomanical narcissists slamming face first into the brick wall of reality. The response of that elite and their dutiful followers to things not going their way, to their Utopia slipping from their grasp, has been startlingly incompetent, panicked, and frenzied. They have lashed out with outrageous authoritarianism, but also cower in their bunkers, wearing three masks if they dare to go outdoors. George Orwell never foresaw Big Brother residing in San Francisco, with the thought police stomping their boot to promote non-reproductive sexuality, obesity, open borders and a senile president. But here we are.

I'm not happy with things as they are, but calling the ecoomy "a shambles" is pusing the envelop right off the desk. And worying about Blue State governments when Red State governments are actively trying to kill their own citizens is misplaced panic. There's plenty that needs doing, and the next phase you're going to hate: communitarianism. Yes, we'll need to work together and forgo some of our excessive liberties or the entire enterperise will fail. We're already having a fourth wave of COVID, and Red States are shoouting, "Bring it on!"

JPT Wrote:Voices from other countries, especially longstanding allies, are increasingly concerned that the US is falling apart. They are increasingly seeking to protect themselves from the fallout of the disintegration of the nation they used to look to for leadership. For others, in poorer countries, there is a rejection of "Americanism", which they used to aspire to. They'll take our money where they can get it, but any moral reputation the US used to posses is utterly gone. They see our tanks riding in with rainbow flags and say, "no thank you".

There's truth here, and all for the better. We've always sucked at being imperialists, and should just agree that we can't pull it off. We do much better when we have a partner looking for our help, not an adversary or even a collapsed society that we seem to think needs us.

JPT Wrote:I don't yet know how to contextualize Trump. That has been a bizarre episode in history, and it's possible he may run again in 2024 (and win). But he is a component of the Boomer id, sabotaged by the same afflictions of the rest of his generation. He tried to combat the dominant elite by feeding their own vomit back to them, with his own style of narcissism and self-aggrandizement. In that sense, they're all the same.

Give the "it's all the Boomers fault" a rest will you? My Gen is to blame for plenty, just not everything. More to the point, we're not responsible for fixing everything that's broken either. We've fixed a lot and broken a lot, and now it's over to you and the Millies. Note: without us, you would still be writing on typewriters and in cursive. We gave you the tools. Use them well.

JPT Wrote:I know what the end game looks like, if the nation survives. Humble traditionalism, a quest for stability and normality, and a rejection of self-righteous crusades to "Change the World ™". But I'm not at all sure as of now that it will survive. What I am 99% sure of (now, as I always have been) is that civil war is not a possibility, despite the feverish speculation of some. It looks more like the fall of the Roman Empire.

You had better hope that this isn't the end of the American State, because we need the state to fix Global Warming and an impending inequality that will look a hell of a lot like Feudalism. The social stuff will require other fixes, and governemnt is a tool, but not a driver. So get vaccinated. You'll need it.

[John J. Xenakis]

** 31-Aug-2021 World View: Good fighters

(08-31-2021, 10:53 AM)David Horn Wrote: > Actually, I was referring to Trump and his GOP acolytes who have
> started to praise the Taliban. More to follow, I'm sure.

> https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-calls-t...33872.html

That article quotes Trump as saying that the Taliban are smart and
good fighters. It's actually an indirect criticism of Biden, who is
not smart and not a good fighter, and was humiliated by the Taliban.
It has nothing to do with the hard right or Trump's acolytes.

[pbrower2a]

(08-30-2021, 08:16 PM)John J. Xenakis Wrote: ** 30-Aug-2021 World View: Contempt for the Taliban

(08-30-2021, 04:48 PM)David Horn Wrote: >   John Wrote: You should watch Fox's 6 PM ET newscast.  You may
>   discover you like it much better than whatever garbage you
>   currently listen to.

>   Unlikely.  That's dinner time, and I don't want to toss cookies in
>   the middle of a meal.

That reminds me of that old Jack Nicholson movie line, "You can't
handle the truth!"

(08-30-2021, 04:48 PM)David Horn Wrote: >   John Wrote: By the way, I'm curious to know what you mean by,
>   "They've even played XOXO with the Taliban." I don't know what
>   that means, and I didn't even know that you watched Fox News.

>   Hugs and kisses. For some reason, the Taliban is now semi-revered
>   by the hard right. Go figure.

This is one of those really bizarre statements that you make that show
that you're completely out of touch with reality.  All Fox analysts
I've heard -- and also many on MSNBC and the BBC as well -- are
contemptuous of the Taliban and say that the Taliban will start raping
girls as soon as the Americans leave.  They're also contemptuous of
Biden for "cutting and running" and trusting the Taliban, in order to
get a photo op on 9/11.  So the truth is the exact opposite of what
you're saying.

• Biden crying in response to a question at an 8/27 press conference

Donald Trump, a man who has no feelings for anyone other than himself, would never cry except for himself unless as an act. 

President Biden can feel for others' loss. That makes a huge difference.

[pbrower2a]

(08-31-2021, 03:47 AM)justpassingthrough Wrote: It's been several years since I posted ranted here, and my views on the cyclical theories have continued to evolve. The thought I have now is that today bears a startling resemblance to the late 1970s. And that leads me to think that if you want to know what a "Crisis" is going to look like, you have to look at the end of the preceding "Awakening". Meaning, this is not a replay of the Revolutionary War, the Civil War, or WWII, as we all speculated for years. If you had to give this Crisis a name, the best one available is probably "Jimmy Carter". On steroids.

 

Awakening era? Do you see any Boom-like or Missionary-like behavior in the Millennial Generation? Do you see them taking it out on Boomers except if the Boomers have done grave misconduct?  Do you see any countercultural activity? Do you see them reaching for the stars with their minds but not with engineering plans? OK, they have rejected Donald Trump... but then again, you are talking about someone discreditable, a pompous fool.

Joe Biden is on the Silent/Boom cusp. Somehow people his age don't become President, but he is still only four years older than Donald Judas Iscariot Trump. If he is to be a disaster as President in accordance with the generational theory, then the analogue would not be to Jimmy Carter at the tail end of the last Awakening Era but instead to James Buchanan, who utterly bungled the run-up to the Civil War by appeasing the slave-owning interests at every turn and giving up when those interests decided that they could get no more. I have yet to see Biden appeasing any questionable interests. He has not shown sympathy figured in the Capitol Putsch or the Michigan Plot. (The Michigan Plot was some Militia types who are accused of plotting to kidnap the Governor of Michigan to lynch her for pushing masks, store closures, and social distancing to prevent the spread of the dangerous COVID-19 virus. Trump opposed that, and so did that Militia group).* We can consider ourselves fortunate that the plot was foiled or that it isn't as bad as the media tell us that it was. Joe Biden has been quiet about the Michigan plot and the Capitol Putsch, likely expecting the courts to settle it.

Your theories on the generational theory have evolved into something completely out of line with any orthodox explanation. We know what an Awakening Era looks like, and nothing after about 1985 resembles an Awakening Era. In the early 1980s the only Awakening was of the Religious Right in part as the Born-Again movement. Jesus Freaks, that sort of thing. It was arch-conservative, and it also coincided with many Boomers adopting country music as "theirs". The final phase of the Boom Awakening was arch-conservative in politics and culture.  To be sure, orthodoxy in the context of some school of thought may itself be wrong and even demonstrate how wrong the theory is, especially if the theory is itself bunk.

Accepting that the first four years of the Reagan Presidency are part of some reactionary phase of an Awakening among Boomers that made possible the shift of most of the white South (Mountain and Deep) from Democratic-leaning to Republican-leaning as well as hostile to science in any struggle between science and fundamentalist beliefs can explain much. Such is a huge shift in the culture of much of America. Such a trend can either spread, consolidate, or reverse; it could even be a topic for a thread of the theory and its interpretation. Maybe we liberals have missed something because we cannot understand Christian Protestant fundamentalism adequately because we see it more alien to our minds than we see people different in other things.  

Quote:I think it would be fair to call WWI the end of the previous Awakening, and WWII was the climax of the Crisis. The technologies and totalitarian ideologies that produced WWII were born in the preceding Progressive Era, and produced WWI, the USSR, eugenics, human flight, prohibition, and so on by the end of that Awakening. 

When the Missionary Awakening ended seems murky to me. It could be the Panic of 1907, which preceded the First World War by seven years. European cycles are not quite like ours, but that may not explain everything. The glorious expressions of late-wave Impressionism, early expressionism, the last music of Gustav Mahler, and some daring poetry and literature may have been a cover for some nasty tendencies in European politics. Except for the Balkans and the establishment of a united Germany and a united Italy, the European map of 1913 looks much like that of 1816. Much was still a settlement of the post-Napoleonic world. Many national groups were under the harsh rule of Germany, Austria-Hungary, and Russia and wanted out. Technology had advanced, and so did productivity. Even so, much of the political arrangement was rotten.

World War I was a Third Turning war during a degenerate stage of the cycle. (If one is to speak of a Regeneracy, then most likely such is an escape from its antithesis, a Degeneracy) European cycles were not together in 1914; Russia was in approaching dangerous stage between a 3T and a 4T, when a nation is most seriously polarized into opposing camps that seek the elimination of each other, when political consensus is falling apart, when leadership is at its least competent, and social cohesion is disintegrating. Leaders have excessive confidence in their ability, and that is proved catastrophically wrong. A Crisis war that starts at such a time, as did the American Civil War, becomes carnage. Russia was roughly sixty years from its last Crisis Era by the "teen" years of the twentieth century, the last Crisis being the Crimean War. Sixty years from the end of a Crisis Era puts one at the beginning of the next one. 

American leadership in 1861 and Russian leadership in 1914  had their differences, but in Russia it was far worse. Russia had little support for middle-of-the-road politics, with the country centrifugally dividing into the extreme Right associated with the Tsar and his most bloodthirsty flunkies and the revolutionary socialists, most importantly the Bolsheviks. Lenin was the most extreme figure of the Left to have lived to that time. I need not go into the details of the collapse of the incompetent Romanov court, but I can say that once Nicholas II was overthrown in a bourgeois coup, the leadership was in an impossible position of establishing a new social order during a military calamity. Within a few months, Lenin's Bolsheviks stormed the Winter Palace where the elected parliament legislated... and took over. (a hint: when I saw the Capitol Putsch I saw the October Revolution in Russia 1917 as an analogue). The Hard Right (the Whites) that had been shoved aside became the predominant opposition to Lenin's new "socialist" regime known as the "Reds" and shoved the few Russian moderates aside. The Whites saw the Reds as callous, amoral, ruthless, murderous thugs, which is exactly how the Reds saw the Whites. For once they were right about each other. Both would have exterminated the other side to the last person and symbol. I need not go on here about Russia, as the rest is basic history.      

OK, so what made Marxism-Leninism and the Soviet Union possible? The rottenness of Imperial Russia, a political order that allowed no democracy, saw industrialization solely as a means of enriching elites and creating military prowess, and treated its large Jewish minority badly enough that many of them gravitated to the most ferocious ideology against the Romanov dynasty and its retainers: Marxism.  Of course, Karl Marx himself had written his Communist Manifesto in 1848 and Capital late in his life. He gets credit or blame for offering some core ideas to Lenin. 
    

Quote:So we have been, stupidly, for years, predicting something that looks like past Crises. When we already know what the issues are. All you have to do is look at the 1960s and 1970s. Mao-inspired neo-Marxist identity politics, cultural revolution and terrorism, economic and cultural decline, the disintegration and demoralization of American society, and of American geopolitical standing, allowed by widespread narcissistic hedonism, greed and corruption. That's Boomers. Always has been, always will be.

Most of us recognize that the last three American Crises are quite different. The American Revolution was a colonial revolt against a distant King who sought to micromanage affairs in  the Colonies contrary to the abilities and desires of 'his' subjects. Until the American Revolution the British Crown had largely left the thirteen colonies from Maine (then a part of Massachusetts) to Georgia do much on their own. America got anarchy with its independence and established a Constitution to unite the former colonies by a lawful federal system. The America Civil War would determine whether a united America could survive with slavery that made a mockery of American claims to freedom and democracy. The Second World War would determine whether the demonic Axis Powers would rule the world or be obliterated. 

Obviously Americans need not concern themselves with attaining independence this time. That is settled. Slavery is not an issue this time. Obviously we are not going to have Germany, Italy, and Japan as enemies. . 

Quote:Economic crashes, pandemics, and technological disruption are the kinds of things that happen throughout history. What is unique to the current moment is the response to those things by the current generational constellation. S&H often seemed to suggest that these generations would "rise to the occasion" and become something they never were before. Nope. Boomers are Boomers. This is the world they created. In response to the 2008 crash (which I now commit to as the beginning of the 4T), the preceding Awakening imposed itself on the world in full force, in the form of Barack Obama. He was the embodiment and messiah of everything the Awakening was about. So instead of fixing the economy, we got Obamacare and anti-American, intersectional identity politics. And now we fly BLM and rainbow flags at American embassies while the world laughs at us. 

Financial panics of 1857, 1929, and 2008 left no question that business as usual was no longer possible.  Those came at the end of 3T's and presaged great trouble. People can tolerate much nastiness when a speculative boom distracts people from social rot with plentiful easy money from simply buying real estate. But those speculative booms devour capital that might otherwise be invested in plant and equipment, research and development, or in the formation of small business. Expecting a speculative boom to go well is like feeding lobster to the ravenous end of your pooch and expecting it to come out the other end of the dog as something precious. When the Crash comes, everything rotten becomes obvious. A hint: Satan Incarnate took over Germany as the result of such an economic meltdown.

Barack Obama is not a Boomer. He is more like the typical President who follows a Crisis Era.  Just consider how Obama matches up to Eisenhower in their four elections and how poorly the 1976 (Carter versus Ford) predicts the results of Obama's Presidential elections:

Quote:It may be premature, but I expect historians to hold Eisenhower and Obama similar in quality.

Despite the great differences in curriculae vitae, Eisenhower and Obama seem to have something very much in common: both are members of Reactive generations. 60-ish Reactives (George Washington, John Adams, Grover Cleveland, Harry Truman, and Dwight Eisenhower) may be the best sorts of leaders that Reactive leaders can be: cautious, mellow, respectful of precedent, and more trusting in legality than in the contemporary passion. Even if Barack Obama is one of the youngest Presidents ever elected and won't reach or surpass 60 as President (barring an amendment to undo the 22nd Amendment) he seems to act like someone in his sixties.

(The worst Reactive leaders are amoral, angry, cynical, bigoted leaders with an agenda of seeking revenge against real and imagined personal enemies -- like Adolf Hitler and Mao Zedong, puppets of tyrannical leaders such as Vidkun Quisling and Mátyás Rákosi, and such brutal functionaries of tyrants as Andrei Vishinsky and  Lavrenti Beria). When all is said and done, I think that the Obama and Eisenhower Presidencies are going to look like good analogues. Both Presidents are chilly rationalists. Both respect legal precedents more than they trust legislation and the transitory will of the people in states. Both are practically scandal-free administrations. Both started with a troublesome war that both found their way out of. Neither did much to 'grow' the strength of their Parties in either House of Congress.

The definitive moderate Republican may have been Dwight Eisenhower, and I have heard plenty of Democrats praise the Eisenhower Presidency. He went along with Supreme Court rulings that outlawed segregationist practices, stayed clear of the McCarthy bandwagon, and let McCarthy implode.


 
gray -- did not vote in 1952 or 1956
white -- Eisenhower twice, Obama twice
deep blue -- Republican all four elections
light blue -- Republican all but 2008 (I assume that greater Omaha went for Ike twice)
light green -- Eisenhower once, Stevenson once, Obama never
dark green -- Stevenson twice, Obama never
pink -- Stevenson twice, Obama once

No state voted Democratic all four times, so no state is in deep red.

(This site uses the very old red for Democrats and blue for Republicans... I do not make waves about that in that website).

To be sure, one would expect any winning President to win almost entirely states that FDR won in 1936 (all then voting except Vermont and Maine), that Nixon won in 1972 (all but Massachusetts), or Reagan won in 1980 (all but Minnesota).  But the overlay between Obama and Eisenhower fits far better includes all four such states that FDR, Nixon, and Reagan won in nearly-complete wins of the entire USA. As another coincidence, Eisenhower was the first Republican to win Virginia since 1928 (24 years) and Obama was the first Democrat to win the Old Dominion since 1964 (44 years) -- and both won the state twice.   

Now, Carter vs. Obama:

If anyone has any doubt that the Presidential Election of 1976 is ancient history for all practical purposes:

Carter 1976, Obama 2008/2012    



Carter 1976, Obama twice  red
Carter 1976, Obama once pink
Carter 1976, Obama never yellow
Ford 1976, Obama twice white
Ford 1976, Obama once light blue
Ford 1976, Obama never blue

....As you can see, Carter lost a raft of states (among them California, Oregon, Washington, Illinois, Michigan, New Jersey, Connecticut, Vermont, and Maine) that Democratic nominees for President have not lost after 1988, and some states (Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire, and New Mexico) that Democrats have not LOST in Presidential wins. On the other side, Carter was the last Democrat to win Alabama, Mississippi, South Carolina, or Texas. Barring a major realignment of the states in partisan identity or an electoral blowout, Republicans are unlikely to win more than a state or two in white and Democrats are unlikely to win more than a state or two in yellow for the next couple of decades..

Obama may be awkward in the generational theory, but so is Biden, for where they are placed. It is possible that Obama delayed or even forestalled the damage that one expects from the long economic meltdown that follows a panic at the end of a speculative boom. Maybe America did not do the structural reforms necessary to establish the sort of political order and economic policies necessary for a better America starting with the economy, like having a tax system that favors small businesses instead of corporations on the brink of death from bureaucratic bloat and the inability to innovate their way out of decay. But such is what Americans wanted in 2009 and 2010 and when they got it, the moneyed interests had the means with which to buy the political process. Those interests can express themselves with the quip that the oil billionaire H.L. Hunt expressed: 

I believe in the Golden Rule: he who owns the gold makes the rules.

... Most countries have "socialized medicine", and even we do to some extent, with the military and with Medicare. If you wonder about Medicare, it is because the elderly were typically without funds for paying their medical bills. Free Enterprise was delighted to "socialize" medical care of the elderly. Obama missed out on the Boom Awakening, for better or worse. He long kept us guessing on what his favorite music is.

If you want to give blame for identity politics -- those were already in place long before Barack Obama became President. 

 

Quote:The economy is in shambles, the US is incompetent in foreign affairs and the society is disintegrating domestically, while the crusaders of the Awakening ride triumphantly over the cliff. I am deeply disturbed by the actions of the "ruling elite" over the last 13 years, and the last two years, particularly in Washington, Silicon Valley and blue state governments. But I increasingly see the real end game here being one of delusional, megalomanical narcissists slamming face first into the brick wall of reality. The response of that elite and their dutiful followers to things not going their way, to their Utopia slipping from their grasp, has been startlingly incompetent, panicked, and frenzied. They have lashed out with outrageous authoritarianism, but also cower in their bunkers, wearing three masks if they dare to go outdoors. George Orwell never foresaw Big Brother residing in San Francisco, with the thought police stomping their boot to promote non-reproductive sexuality, obesity, open borders and a senile president. But here we are.

At some point we are going to need a way in which to scale back Big Government. The Left found Big Government necessary for a Welfare State that got in the way of plutocrats who have typically sought to intensify the suffering of the poor so that the poor will work harder, longer, and under harsher conditions for less just to survive. Then the Right found that Big Government could offer rich rewards from wars for profit, the means of stifling competition to monopoly, lucrative graft, and sweetheart deals while rescuing corporate entities that would otherwise die. But when?

A hint: many medical practices depend upon Social Security and Medicaid. Many landlords profit from Section 8 housing. I can assure you that an arch-conservative general retailer such as Wal*Mart, which sells much food on food aid, much prefers that people swipe a food card for food than that they swipe food from the shelves as shoplifters. 

The wave of the  future in advanced industrial countries seems  to be the "social market state" that recognizes that consumption drives the economy more than does production. We may be stuck with the welfare state, but crony capitalism must die.    

Obviously most of us vote wrong in about half the Presidential elections, so we can't quite expect the government to do what we want all the time. 

As for Orwellian stuff -- I have nicknamed FoX News Channel as the "Fox Newspeak Channel" for setting the mood (have a crime story before political news that involves anyone not reliably right-wing) for its viewers .  That is a modified version of the Two Minutes Hate in Nineteen Eighty-Four. Donald Trump had a personality cult around him -- and it still has followers.

Quote:Voices from other countries, especially longstanding allies, are increasingly concerned that the US is falling apart. They are increasingly seeking to protect themselves from the fallout of the disintegration of the nation they used to look to for leadership. For others, in poorer countries, there is a rejection of "Americanism", which they used to aspire to. They'll take our money where they can get it, but any moral reputation the US used to posses is utterly gone. They see our tanks riding in with rainbow flags and say, "no thank you".

Speaking of long-standing allies... rumors are that Queen Elizabeth II found President Trump highly unpleasant. German Chancellor Angela Merkel, probably the most brilliant politician in our time, chose to wait him out. She can deal with Obama and with Biden fairly and squarely, which is the only way to do things.  What is so horrible about homosexuality in itself? 

Quote:I don't yet know how to contextualize Trump. That has been a bizarre episode in history, and it's possible he may run again in 2024 (and win). But he is a component of the Boomer id, sabotaged by the same afflictions of the rest of his generation. He tried to combat the dominant elite by feeding their own vomit back to them, with his own style of narcissism and self-aggrandizement. In that sense, they're all the same.

Well, I can. He is an extreme narcissist and possibly a sociopath. His type hurts people who did nothing wrong. Maybe he has learned how to appeal to people that technological progress and social change have left behind.  I've seen that in the history of may countries, and it never works out well. Donald Trump is as much an elitist as anyone, and his elitist role ensures that he need never humble himself. If he dislikes what someone else tells him he turns against that person. Nobody can know it all, and Donald Trump is arrogant enough to contradict even medical experts because what he wants to believe is sacred. 

The fault with the Boom Generation is in its commercial, administrative, and cultural elites. The rest of us must either avoid them to keep some dignity or defer to them  for the prospect of some goodies or opportunities. The antithesis of narcissism is humility, a trait that applies to Donald Trump about as well as "warmth" applies to liquid helium. The best role in life for a Boomer not part of the elite and exempt from degradation by having a well-paying profession has been as a thing-oriented person who must rarely deal with others. Anyone else must bow and scrape to someone who thinks that his feces has a delightful aroma because it comes from his "special" anal sphincter. 

Quote:I know what the end game looks like, if the nation survives. Humble traditionalism, a quest for stability and normality, and a rejection of self-righteous crusades to "Change the World ™". But I'm not at all sure as of now that it will survive. What I am 99% sure of (now, as I always have been) is that civil war is not a possibility, despite the feverish speculation of some. It looks more like the fall of the Roman Empire.

America does not have one specific tradition. It has multiple traditions, not always suitable for amalgamation into other traditions, but no less valid even if exotic. Most of us not tied to one of those cultures ends up picking and choosing. You ought to see my freezer. 

*As a strict rule I do not predict the results of any criminal proceeding. I presume innocence until conviction in a court of law or in the case of deceased suspects a  connection of damning evidence or testimony to the deceased as an "un-indicted co-conspirator" such as Hitler, Himmler, or Goebbels at the Nuremberg trials.

[David Horn]

(08-31-2021, 01:32 PM)John J. Xenakis Wrote: ** 31-Aug-2021 World View: Good fighters

(08-31-2021, 10:53 AM)David Horn Wrote: Actually, I was referring to Trump and his GOP acolytes who have started to praise the Taliban.  More to follow, I'm sure.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-calls-t...33872.html

That article quotes Trump as saying that the Taliban are smart and good fighters.  It's actually an indirect criticism of Biden, who is
not smart and not a good fighter, and was humiliated by the Taliban.  It has nothing to do with the hard right or Trump's acolytes.

Praise is still praise, regardless of the intent.  Some of Trump'e acolytes, including Don Jr. have even pushed this further.

[John J. Xenakis]

** 01-Sep-2021 World View: Taliban vs Democrats

(09-01-2021, 12:14 PM)David Horn Wrote: > Praise is still praise, regardless of the intent. Some of Trump's
> acolytes, including Don Jr. have even pushed this further.

> https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-re...ism-2021-8

There's just no limit to the idiocy of what you post, is there.

First, BusinessInsider is a far left media source.

Second, the article is about the Fascist Stalinist censorship regime
of Joe Biden and the Democrats. It's the most vicious censorship
regime in decades or possibly in American history.

In the article, Zabihullah Mujahid is mocking the vicious Democrat
censorship regime enforced by Facebook. Donald Trump Jr is agreeing
that there is a vicious Democrat censorship regime being enforced by
Facebook.

It's almost beyond belief that Donald Trump is being censored by the
Democrats, and many conservatives are being censored by Democrats, but
the Taliban terrorists can use Facebook freely. In other words, the
Democrat regime is far worse than the Taliban regime, and Donald Trump
Jr was agreeing with that. That's what Zabihullah Mujahid was
mocking, and Donald Trump Jr was also mocking.

Incidentally, you're probably oblivious to this, but this afternoon,
Austin and Milley conducted a press conference during which they said
that they may be working closely with Taliban. So, as usual,
everything you've written is the exact opposite of the truth.

Your posts are so uniformly stupid that I'm tending to believe that
you're using them just to bait me. Even if that's true, I'm happy to
respond, since it gives an opportunity to educate any other people who
happen to read this thread. In this case, I'm educating them about
how the Democrats are worse than the Taliban, and how they're working
closely with the Taliban, maybe learning from the Taliban.

[pbrower2a]

(09-01-2021, 05:23 PM)John J. Xenakis Wrote: ** 01-Sep-2021 World View: Taliban vs Democrats

(09-01-2021, 12:14 PM)David Horn Wrote: >   Praise is still praise, regardless of the intent.  Some of Trump's
>   acolytes, including Don Jr. have even pushed this further.

>   https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-re...ism-2021-8

There's just no limit to the idiocy of what you post, is there.

First, BusinessInsider is a far left media source.

Let's see:

Quote:Bias Rating: LEFT-CENTER
Factual Reporting: HIGH
Country: USA (45/180 Press Freedom)
Media Type: Website
Traffic/Popularity: High Traffic

MBFC Credibility Rating: HIGH CREDIBILITY

History

Launched in 2007, Business Insider is a business news site concentrating on finance, industry, and tech news. Its headquarters is located in New York City, USA. Business Insider was founded by former Wall Street analyst Henry Blodget and DoubleClick’s co-founder Dwight Merriman and CEO Kevin Ryan. It is published by Insider, Inc. Business Insider’s board of directors includes Huffington Post co-founder Ken Lerer, and the president and chief operating officer are Julie Hansen. Henry Blodget is also CEO and editor-in-chief of Business Insider.
Read our profile on the United States government and media.
Funded by / Ownership
In 2015, German publishing company and owner of Bild, Die Welt, and Fakt, Axel Springer, acquired Business Insider for $442 million, which brought their share to approximately 97 percent. Bezos Expeditions, the personal investment company of Jeff Bezos, will hold further shares according to the purchase details. The website is funded through online advertising.

Analysis / Bias
In review, Business Insider occasionally publishes listicles such as: “The top 10 Google searches of 2018” and “10 burning questions Americans asked Google in 2018.” Business Insider reports news and opinions with the use of moderately loaded words such as this: “Trump inexplicably told Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi that Mexico would pay for the border wall as part of the landmark new trade deal” and “China looks like it’s going to give Trump a huge symbolic trade war win, fueling hope for a big deal.”  When it comes to sourcing information, they utilize credible media sources such as gbm.hsbc.com, brookings.edu, Bloomberg, Council on Foreign Relations, and asia.nikkei.com.
Politically, Business Insider leans left through both story selection and wording. Here are some examples of stories that have a leftward tilt:

• The odds that a gun will kill the average American may surprise you
  
  
• Mollie Tibbetts’ death used to push debunked ideas about illegal immigration and violent crime
  
  
• Big oil companies were forced to lay out the science of climate change today in a court hearing that compared to the Scopes trial on evolution
  
  
• Ocasio-Cortez burns Mike Huckabee after being mocked: ‘Leave the false statements to Sarah Huckabee. She’s much better at it.’
  

This last story about Ocasio-Cortez and Mike Huckabee comes directly from the strongly left-leaning Talking Points Memo.

Failed Fact Checks

• Amazon Doesn’t Produce 20% of Earth’s Oxygen – FALSE
  

Overall, we rate Business Insider Left-Center Biased based on story selection that leans left and High for factual reporting due to proper sourcing and a reasonable fact check record. (5/15/2016) Updated (M. Huitsing 03/10/2021)


Source: http://www.businessinsider.com/

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/business-insider/

In the same range as the BBC. It's Left by contrast to FoX Propaganda Channel... 

Far Left? Definitely not.  

Quote:Second, the article is about the Fascist Stalinist censorship regime
of Joe Biden and the Democrats.  It's the most vicious censorship
regime in decades or possibly in American history.

Your contradiction reeks. Fascism and Stalinism are not the same thing. 

If there is anything to censor into oblivion that I would not miss it is medical quackery. Even pornography occasionally passes the SLAPS (Serious Literary, Artistic, Political, or Scientific merit) test on occasion. Medical quackery is pure harm. The anti-vax and anti-mask garbage is dangerous and irresponsible.  
 

Quote:In the article, Zabihullah Mujahid is mocking the vicious Democrat
censorship regime enforced by Facebook.  Donald Trump Jr is agreeing
that there is a vicious Democrat censorship regime being enforced by
Facebook.

Facebook is not a news source. It is at worst a rumor mill. Anyone who says that "I saw this on Facebook" might as well say "I heard this drunk in a bar say..." Facebook is finally trying to knock out the conspiracy theories that have plagued it. And, yes, you can post on Facebook while being a drunk in a bar. 

It is a good way of keeping track of friends. It might be a good place for discussing one's experiences or sharing a recipe or travel tips. Propaganda is not a right.   

Quote:It's almost beyond belief that Donald Trump is being censored by the
Democrats, and many conservatives are being censored by Democrats, but
the Taliban terrorists can use Facebook freely.  In other words, the
Democrat regime is far worse than the Taliban regime, and Donald Trump
Jr was agreeing with that.  That's what Zabihullah Mujahid was
mocking, and Donald Trump Jr was also mocking.

Donald Trump has done much to besmirch his credibility. I don't have a problem with Taliban putting their message into general circulation so long as they identify themselves -- until they enter the realm of the offensive. If they start offering "beheading" videos, then maybe they get cut out. 

Quote:Incidentally, you're probably oblivious to this, but this afternoon,
Austin and Milley conducted a press conference during which they said
that they may be working closely with Taliban.  So, as usual,
everything you've written is the exact opposite of the truth.

To cooperate in smashing ISIS-K. The Taliban and ISIS are mortal enemies. We get to choose. ISIS is far worse. 

Quote:Your posts are so uniformly stupid that I'm tending to believe that
you're using them just to bait me.  Even if that's true, I'm happy to
respond, since it gives an opportunity to educate any other people who
happen to read this thread.  In this case, I'm educating them about
how the Democrats are worse than the Taliban, and how they're working
closely with the Taliban, maybe learning from the Taliban.

No, you are simply far from the American mainstream. Can the American mainstream be wrong? Sure. Can you occasionally be right? Sure.

[David Horn]

(09-01-2021, 05:23 PM)John J. Xenakis Wrote: There's just no limit to the idiocy of what you post, is there.

First, BusinessInsider is a far left media source.

They're owned by a German media conglomerate.  I assume they aren't adequately far right for you, but they certainly are not far left.

continuing in the same vein, John Wrote:Second, the article is about the Fascist Stalinist censorship regime of Joe Biden and the Democrats.  It's the most vicious censorship regime in decades or possibly in American history.

Stopping the dissemination of outright lies -- especially ones intended to incite -- is hardly "the most vicious censorship regime in decades or possibly in American history".

continuing in the same vein, John Wrote:In the article, Zabihullah Mujahid is mocking the vicious Democrat censorship regime enforced by Facebook.  Donald Trump Jr is agreeing that there is a vicious Democrat censorship regime being enforced by Facebook.

It's almost beyond belief that Donald Trump is being censored by the Democrats, and many conservatives are being censored by Democrats, but
the Taliban terrorists can use Facebook freely.  In other words, the Democrat regime is far worse than the Taliban regime, and Donald Trump Jr was agreeing with that.  That's what Zabihullah Mujahid was mocking, and Donald Trump Jr was also mocking.

In what way are Democrats involved in stopping Facebook from handing Trump the keys to the castle?  Oh yeah; see my previous comment.

continuing in the same vein, John Wrote:Incidentally, you're probably oblivious to this, but this afternoon, Austin and Milley conducted a press conference during which they said that they may be working closely with Taliban.  So, as usual, everything you've written is the exact opposite of the truth.

I listened to that press conference, and neither man said any such thing.  Their only point in regard to the Taliban has to do with holding them to their word -- which I assume you wish as well.

continuing in the same vein, John Wrote:Your posts are so uniformly stupid that I'm tending to believe that you're using them just to bait me.  Even if that's true, I'm happy to respond, since it gives an opportunity to educate any other people who happen to read this thread.  In this case, I'm educating them about how the Democrats are worse than the Taliban, and how they're working closely with the Taliban, maybe learning from the Taliban.

On that topic, Michele Goldberg has a great opinion piece in the NY Times.  Here it is:

Opinion Columnist Michele Goldberg Wrote:... in the August 27th NY Times
The Right-Wingers Who Admire the Taliban

As the Taliban swept through Afghanistan in August, a Gen Z alt-right group ran a Twitter account devoted to celebrating their progress. Tweets in Pashto juxtaposed two laughing Taliban fighters with pictures meant to represent American effeminacy. Another said, the words auto-translated into English, “Liberalism did not fail in Afghanistan because it was Afghanistan, it failed because it was not true. It failed America, Europe and the world see it.”

The account, now suspended, was just one example of the open admiration for the Taliban that’s developed within parts of the American right. The influential young white supremacist Nick Fuentes — an ally of the Arizona Republican congressman Paul Gosar and the anti-immigrant pundit Michelle Malkin — wrote on the encrypted app Telegram: “The Taliban is a conservative, religious force, the U.S. is godless and liberal. The defeat of the U.S. government in Afghanistan is unequivocally a positive development.” An account linked to the Proud Boys expressed respect for the way the Taliban “took back their national religion as law, and executed dissenters.”

“The far right, the alt-right, are all sort of galvanized by the Taliban essentially running roughshod through Afghanistan, and us leaving underneath a Democratic president,” said Moustafa Ayad, executive director for Africa, the Middle East and Asia at the Institute for Strategic Dialogue, a think tank devoted to countering violent extremism. They’re looking at Afghanistan, he said, “from a standpoint of us getting ‘owned,’ in the parlance of the internet.”

This is not the first time that right-wing American extremists have been inspired by Muslim militants; several white supremacists lauded Al Qaeda’s attacks on Sept. 11. The difference now is that the far right has grown, and the distance between the sort of right-wingers who cheer for the Taliban and conservative power centers has shrunk.

The Florida Republican Matt Gaetz may be a clown, but he’s also a congressman who was close to the previous president. On Twitter earlier this month, Gaetz described the Taliban, like Trump, as “more legitimate than the last government in Afghanistan or the current government here.”

Twenty years ago, in the aftermath of Sept. 11, the United States embarked on a war that would, in time, sell itself as a battle for democracy. Back then, liberal democracy was almost universally venerated in America, which is one reason we had the hubris to think we could export it by force. Many, especially on the right, worried about the threat that jihadism posed to a modern, open society. The tragic journey of the last two decades began with the loudest voices on the right braying for war with Islamism and ended with a right-wing vanguard envying it.

At least before the devastating terrorist attacks on Thursday, there was a subtler form of satisfaction with the Taliban’s takeover among more respectable nationalist conservatives. They don’t sympathize with barbarism, but were pleased to see liberal internationalism lose. “The humiliation of Afghanistan will have been worth it if it pries the old paradigm loose and lets new thoughts in,” Yoram Hazony, an influential nationalist intellectual whose conferences feature figures like Josh Hawley and Peter Thiel, tweeted earlier this month.

What old paradigm? Well, a few days later he tweeted, “What went wrong in Iraq and Afghanistan was, first and foremost, the ideas in the heads of the people running the show. Say its name: Liberalism.”

Fox’s Tucker Carlson, the most important nationalist voice in America, seemed to sympathize with the gender politics of Taliban-supporting Afghans. “They don’t hate their own masculinity,” he said shortly after the fall of Kabul. “They don’t think it’s toxic. They like the patriarchy. Some of their women like it too. So now they’re getting it all back. So maybe it’s possible that we failed in Afghanistan because the entire neoliberal program is grotesque.” (By “neoliberalism” he seems to mean social liberalism, not austerity economics.)

It turns out that when the government deceptively invokes liberal democracy to justify a war, liberal democracy can be discredited by a grueling defeat. In his new book “Reign of Terror,” the national security journalist Spencer Ackerman draws a direct line between our stalemated post-9/11 wars and the rise of Donald Trump. “Trump was able to safely voice the reality of the war by articulating what about it most offended right-wing exceptionalists: humiliation,” he wrote.

Humiliation is a volatile emotion. Many have written about its role in motivating Al Qaeda. Perhaps it’s not surprising that parts of the right would respond to humiliation by identifying with images of brutal masculinity.

Some of this identification might just be for shock value; the alt-right is adept at using irony to occlude its intentions. But some of it is deadly earnest.

“We’ve come across a lot of content that’s U.S.-based extreme far-right websites saying how good the Taliban victory is, and why it’s good for their cause,” said Adam Hadley, director of Tech Against Terrorism, a U.N.-supported project that monitors extremists online. One neo-Nazi website, which I won’t link to, has a tract hailing the Taliban victory in part for showing that a small band of armed fundamentalists can defeat the American empire.

As for the rest of the pro-Taliban right, the Proud Boys and incels and MAGA splinter factions, some of them are probably just trolling. But as groups like QAnon and the civil war-hungry Boogaloo Bois show, a movement can seem absurd and still be a source of real radicalization. “The classic response to any of this is, ‘Ah, they’re just a fringe group,’ and then when that metastasizes, a lot of people eat their words,” said Ayad.

If there’s one lesson of recent American history, it’s that there’s no such thing as something too ridiculous to be dangerous.

[Classic-Xer]

(08-31-2021, 03:47 AM)justpassingthrough Wrote:

(08-30-2021, 08:16 PM)John J. Xenakis Wrote: ** 30-Aug-2021 World View: Contempt for the Taliban

(08-30-2021, 04:48 PM)David Horn Wrote: >   John Wrote: You should watch Fox's 6 PM ET newscast.  You may
>   discover you like it much better than whatever garbage you
>   currently listen to.

>   Unlikely.  That's dinner time, and I don't want to toss cookies in
>   the middle of a meal.

That reminds me of that old Jack Nicholson movie line, "You can't
handle the truth!"

(08-30-2021, 04:48 PM)David Horn Wrote: >   John Wrote: By the way, I'm curious to know what you mean by,
>   "They've even played XOXO with the Taliban." I don't know what
>   that means, and I didn't even know that you watched Fox News.

>   Hugs and kisses. For some reason, the Taliban is now semi-revered
>   by the hard right. Go figure.

This is one of those really bizarre statements that you make that show
that you're completely out of touch with reality.  All Fox analysts
I've heard -- and also many on MSNBC and the BBC as well -- are
contemptuous of the Taliban and say that the Taliban will start raping
girls as soon as the Americans leave.  They're also contemptuous of
Biden for "cutting and running" and trusting the Taliban, in order to
get a photo op on 9/11.  So the truth is the exact opposite of what
you're saying.

• Biden crying in response to a question at an 8/27 press conference

It's been several years since I posted here, and my views on the cyclical theories have continued to evolve. The thought I have now is that today bears a startling resemblance to the late 1970s. And that leads me to think that if you want to know what a "Crisis" is going to look like, you have to look at the end of the preceding "Awakening". Meaning, this is not a replay of the Revolutionary War, the Civil War, or WWII, as we all speculated for years. If you had to give this Crisis a name, the best one available is probably "Jimmy Carter". On steroids. 

I think it would be fair to call WWI the end of the previous Awakening, and WWII was the climax of the Crisis. The technologies and totalitarian ideologies that produced WWII were born in the preceding Progressive Era, and produced WWI, the USSR, eugenics, human flight, prohibition, and so on by the end of that Awakening. 

So we have been, stupidly, for years, predicting something that looks like past Crises. When we already know what the issues are. All you have to do is look at the 1960s and 1970s. Mao-inspired neo-Marxist identity politics, cultural revolution and terrorism, economic and cultural decline, the disintegration and demoralization of American society, and of American geopolitical standing, allowed by widespread narcissistic hedonism, greed and corruption. That's Boomers. Always has been, always will be.

Economic crashes, pandemics, and technological disruption are the kinds of things that happen throughout history. What is unique to the current moment is the response to those things by the current generational constellation. S&H often seemed to suggest that these generations would "rise to the occasion" and become something they never were before. Nope. Boomers are Boomers. This is the world they created. In response to the 2008 crash (which I now commit to as the beginning of the 4T), the preceding Awakening imposed itself on the world in full force, in the form of Barack Obama. He was the embodiment and messiah of everything the Awakening was about. So instead of fixing the economy, we got Obamacare and anti-American, intersectional identity politics. And now we fly BLM and rainbow flags at American embassies while the world laughs at us. 

The economy is in shambles, the US is incompetent in foreign affairs and the society is disintegrating domestically, while the crusaders of the Awakening ride triumphantly over the cliff. I am deeply disturbed by the actions of the "ruling elite" over the last 13 years, and the last two years, particularly in Washington, Silicon Valley and blue state governments. But I increasingly see the real end game here being one of delusional, megalomanical narcissists slamming face first into the brick wall of reality. The response of that elite and their dutiful followers to things not going their way, to their Utopia slipping from their grasp, has been startlingly incompetent, panicked, and frenzied. They have lashed out with outrageous authoritarianism, but also cower in their bunkers, wearing three masks if they dare to go outdoors. George Orwell never foresaw Big Brother residing in San Francisco, with the thought police stomping their boot to promote non-reproductive sexuality, obesity, open borders and a senile president. But here we are.

Voices from other countries, especially longstanding allies, are increasingly concerned that the US is falling apart. They are increasingly seeking to protect themselves from the fallout of the disintegration of the nation they used to look to for leadership. For others, in poorer countries, there is a rejection of "Americanism", which they used to aspire to. They'll take our money where they can get it, but any moral reputation the US used to posses is utterly gone. They see our tanks riding in with rainbow flags and say, "no thank you".

I don't yet know how to contextualize Trump. That has been a bizarre episode in history, and it's possible he may run again in 2024 (and win). But he is a component of the Boomer id, sabotaged by the same afflictions of the rest of his generation. He tried to combat the dominant elite by feeding their own vomit back to them, with his own style of narcissism and self-aggrandizement. In that sense, they're all the same.

I know what the end game looks like, if the nation survives. Humble traditionalism, a quest for stability and normality, and a rejection of self-righteous crusades to "Change the World ™". But I'm not at all sure as of now that it will survive. What I am 99% sure of (now, as I always have been) is that civil war is not a possibility, despite the feverish speculation of some. It looks more like the fall of the Roman Empire.

Me, I think there's going to be another Revolutionary/Civil War. I don't think it will be as large  or as bloody as the last Civil War. I think most of the country will opt to remain together and continue to survive as one nation.

[pbrower2a]

Quote:So we have been, stupidly, for years, predicting something that looks like past Crises. When we already know what the issues are. All you have to do is look at the 1960s and 1970s. Mao-inspired neo-Marxist identity politics, cultural revolution and terrorism, economic and cultural decline, the disintegration and demoralization of American society, and of American geopolitical standing, allowed by widespread narcissistic hedonism, greed and corruption. That's Boomers. Always has been, always will be.

1. No two Crises in American history have been alike. The public enemies have not been the same. We are not in a struggle for independence or deciding whether slavery will persevere or be abolished. Our enemy isn't the genocidal racists of Germany, Italy, and Japan in World War II. If anything, Germany, Italy, and Japan are quite placid; if anything happened to American democracy those three countries would be at or near the top of the list as places of political refuge. 
We have a nasty virus. Maybe the personal dynamics behind the Michigan plot have parallels in John Brown's raid and Bloody Kansas/Bleeding Kansas just before the Civil War. A President who had just lost his bid for re-election fair and square sought to remain President in violation of Constitutional norms by, at the least, egging on his supporters to go "on to the Capitol". We have a terribly-bungled response to COVID-19.
I doubt that anyone involved with the generational theory believes that Crisis Eras will be quite alike. 
2. The Hard Right is as capable of Identity Politics as was the Hard Left of the 1960's and 1970's. Knowing that Marxism-Leninism is dead (or at least moribund, as in Cuba) as an economic system except in North Korea even if formerly-Marxist dictatorships as in China, Vietnam, and Laos. Maoism is dead in China even if his image appears on Chinese currency if only because he is the world's best-known Chinese. China, lacking a welfare state, is arguably more capitalist than the USA or the EU. 
The racist KKK and neo-Nazis are now far more relevant to American reality, at least if one looks at police efforts to quash their terrorist activities. Of course they are pure disgrace, but tell their members that! White losers go to prison and get connected all too often to the Aryan Nations cult. But even without the odious stench of Nazism (anyone who still thinks that there is a meaningful difference between neo-Nazis and the KKK deludes himself) we have people with a complete rejection of the Western Enlightenment. 
The American and French Revolutions were consequences of the Enlightenment, as were the revolutions of 1848 (if only they had succeeded!), as was the great flowering of European and American culture. It even extended to Russia, with its great blossoming of music and literature. In science it includes the establishment of chemistry, biological evolution, Freudian psychoanalysis, and electromagnetic theory.. and even Einstein's relativity. It includes music from Bach and Rameau to Mahler and Scriabin.  It questioned stale thought with experiment and daring expressions.
I have heard people define themselves as "Tenth Amendment Citizens". Why the Tenth and not something later?
(the 13th)
Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

(the 14th)

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Section 2. Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.

Section 3. No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may, by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

Section 5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.

(the 15th)

Section 1. The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.

Section 2. The Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

no longer relevant 

women and persons attaining the age of 18 are now eligible to vote in accordance with Constitutional amendments 

no longer relevant as t applies to the Confederate cause unless there should be some other rebellion at a later date. January 6, 2021?
America has recently had a significant number of former slaves -- of the Nazis. This point is becoming irrelevant as such people die off in extreme old age, and was never an issue in the United States except in the post-war settlement in Germany after WWII. 


I think we all know the distinction between a "Tenth Amendment citizen" and a "Fifteenth Amendment citizen".  need I say "race"? The abolition of slavery was very much an Enlightenment ideal and practice. Racism and religious bigotry are not Enlightenment ideals. 

...............................

3. Some have sought to repudiate (Nazis and other fascists) the Enlightenment; some perverted it (Marxist-Leninists, especially Stalinists) for political reasons. Some act as if it never happened (ISIS, Taliban). Some, like fundamentalist Christians, often seek to pick and choose what parts of the Enlightenment that they wish to undo. Fundamentalist Christianity is comparatively new (1926), but it often denies evolution promotes such pseudo-history as the claim that the Founding Fathers were Biblical literalists like modern Fundamentalists. Add to this we have had people denying the dangers of lead (especially as tetraethyl lead), carcinogens in tobacco, and now AGW.  

To be sure, we have identity politics -- but most of it is on the Right. Liberals are a broad coalition of people very different in ethnicity, cultural traditions, gender preference, and religion. The Hard Right is often white and proud of it. "Black Power" is very much on the fringe, and losing all relevance. Would that "white power" were vanishing. 

Identity politics solves nothing. Democrats are far more advanced in finding shared ground on such issues as education and workplace equity. Where but America could Jews and Muslims vote nearly alike? OK, a place like Dearborn, Michigan can be extremely intolerant in part because of its large Arab and Muslim population. Yes, indeed. No sexually-oriented businesses, much unlike the southwest side of Sodom and Gomorrah (Detroit). Whores, addicts, and drunks get busted if they wander in from Detroit, as there is a Dearborn city police car stationed at the Dearborn-Detroit city limit. Although one can still go to a bar in Dearborn, rowdiness in a bar is out of the question, for the city has no tolerance for such. Horrible? Well, plenty of Christians and Jews like it that way. Better the mosque than the strip club or whorehouse, right?

We all know and recognize out differences. Most of us recognize that they have much in common. The middle class and upper class of all minority groups agree on the desirability of formal education and the dangers of violent crime. 


5. Cultural decline?  Yawn! Late-Romantic music got that description. Impressionist art got that label. If you really want to see cultural decline, then just look for the world of meth. We are now in one of the most creative times in world history.

6. Do you know what is really demoralizing? Hearing Donald Trump speak. Watching video of the Capitol Putsch. 

7. American geopolitical standing? That used to correspond with American dominance of the world economy outside the Sino-Soviet bloc. That is over... so make your adjustment. We can still live well so long as our economy remains productive -- and especially, equitable.  

8. widespread narcissistic hedonism, greed and corruption.  Yes. Donald Trump exemplifies that. 

9. We Boomers are not a monolith. The problem is that our economic and administrative elites are a monolith that has lorded it over us all. People who have unchallenged power become extremely narcissistic. Those among us who never became part of the Boomer elite may be decent and competent enough that if we ever got a chance to prove ourselves would do things as well as any generation. The problem is that the Boomer elite has shut us out until they themselves become too old to participate... as is so with us.  

[David Horn]

(09-02-2021, 04:42 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Me, I think there's going to be another Revolutionary/Civil War. I don't think it will be as large  or as bloody as the last Civil War. I think most of the country will opt to remain together and continue to survive as one nation.

Don't assume that the Right will set the agenda.  The Left is pretty fed-up with decades of trying to make progress in the face of minority but controllinig opposition.  If your Civil War comes, I doubt it will end with all us in the same nation.

[John J. Xenakis]

** 31-Aug-2021 World View: Civic unity in civil war

Bob Butler" Wrote:> As I have thought about it more, any revolution or civil war will
> involved two or more aspects of a culture. Revolutions generally
> try to get rid of a flawed elite class, sometime supported by a
> colonial imperialist power, but favored by folks who get ahead
> through the existing arrangement. Civil wars involve even more
> clearly two aspects of the culture striving against one another.
> One generally supports the existing power structure, the other
> wishes to become more competitive.

> To the extent that Generational Dynamics focuses on crises that
> create unity it focuses on external threats and does not address
> internal struggles such as you see in any revolution or civil war.
> Such are hardly unique to the United States.

In the case of an internal civil war, the civic unity is split between
the two sides. What I mean by that is that previously, the two ethnic
groups will typically live together on friendly terms, often
side-by-side. The Regeneracy leads to civic unity within each side,
so that each side in the civil war is united behind that side's
leader.

The image that has stuck in my mind is that in 1984 Rwanda, the plane
crash was the major regeneracy event, and the Hutu leader broadcast
"Cut the tall trees down," referring to the taller Tutsis. Then,
according to some reports, a man would pick up a machete, and walk
next door to the home of the person with which he had previously been
friendly. He would kill and dismember the husband and children. Then
he'd rape the wife, and then dismember and kill her.

So there was civic unity among the Hutus and civic unity among the
Tutsis, but obviously not together.

[John J. Xenakis]

** 04-Sep-2021 World View: How 9/11/2001 was a 'Regeneracy Event'

If we consider "trust in government" to be a proxy for "civic unity,"
then the attacks on 9/11/2001 clearly fit the description of a
Regeneracy Event.

The following graph from a Pew Research article shows how "trust in
government" was mostly falling steadily for decades, then spiked on
9/11/2001, but then dropped off again in the following years. (The
graph also shows an increase during the Reagan administration, but the
article doesn't say why.)

• Trust in government spiked following 9/11 terror attack (Pew Research)

The text of the article is a perfect description of what a "regeneracy
event" is, as it unified Republicans, Democrats and Independents
behind President Bush:

Quote: "Just as memories of 9/11 are firmly embedded in the
minds of most Americans old enough to recall the attacks, their
historical importance far surpasses other events in people’s
lifetimes. ...

The importance of 9/11 transcended age, gender, geographic and
even political differences. The 2016 study noted that while
partisans agreed on little else that election cycle, more than
seven-in-ten Republicans and Democrats named the attacks as one of
their top 10 historic events.

9/11 transformed U.S. public opinion, but many of its impacts were
short-lived

It is difficult to think of an event that so profoundly
transformed U.S. public opinion across so many dimensions as the
9/11 attacks. While Americans had a shared sense of anguish after
Sept. 11, the months that followed also were marked by rare spirit
of public unity.

Chart shows trust in government spiked following Sept. 11 terror
attack

Patriotic sentiment surged in the aftermath of 9/11. After the
U.S. and its allies launched airstrikes against Taliban and
al-Qaida forces in early October 2001, 79% of adults said they had
displayed an American flag. A year later, a 62% majority said they
had often felt patriotic as a result of the 9/11 attacks.

Moreover, the public largely set aside political differences and
rallied in support of the nation’s major institutions, as well as
its political leadership. In October 2001, 60% of adults expressed
trust in the federal government – a level not reached in the
previous three decades, nor approached in the two decades since
then.

George W. Bush, who had become president nine months earlier after
a fiercely contested election, saw his job approval rise 35
percentage points in the space of three weeks. In late September
2001, 86% of adults – including nearly all Republicans (96%) and a
sizable majority of Democrats (78%) – approved of the way Bush was
handling his job as president."

-- Two Decades Later, the Enduring Legacy of 9/11
https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/202...y-of-9-11/
(PewResearch, 2-Sep-2021)

[John J. Xenakis]

** 03-Sep-2021 World View: China bans 'girlie men'

FullMoon Wrote:> https://youtu.be/6xcvDMDg8TY

> John, is this something like a modern Chi Hao Tian article?

No. This podcast is a somewhat hysterical reaction to fairly common
Chinese propaganda. The guy on the podcast obviously knows nothing
about China.

The document he's referring to document is at:

http://www.news.cn/politics/2021-08/29/c_1127807097.htm

This is the CCP trying to sell Xi Jinping's new policies to a domestic
audience. He's cracking down on all sorts of things to remove
"capitalist influences" from the economy. For example, he's cracking
down on China's entertainment industry, especially where it contains
Western influences or "girlie men."

Here's an article on the subject:

-- Chinese Communist Party bans “girlie” men from appearing on TV
https://americanmilitarynews.com/2021/09...ing-on-tv/
(American Military News, 3-Sep-2021)

Here's the translation of the document the podcast is referring to:

Everyone can feel that a profound change is underway!

The Chinese entertainment industry has always been lack of stinking
fierce material. Not long ago, Wu Yifan, Huo Zun’s chaos and Zhang
Zhehan’s visit to Japan’s Yasukuni Shrine to worship ghosts have been
reported. Recently, Hunan Satellite TV host Qian Feng has been
suspected of rape. She always makes people feel that the Chinese
entertainment industry has sucked. If we don't rectify it, not only
the entertainment circle will be horrible, but the entire cultural
circle, literary circle, performing arts circle, and film and
television circle will also be horrified.

In the past two days, the storm has risen again and the chaos in the
entertainment industry has been hit. The Central Cyberspace
Administration of China has made heavy efforts to rectify the “rice
circle”. The State Administration of Taxation has punished Zheng
Shuang for tax evasion and evasion of 299 million yuan. What does the
heavy blow mean?

On August 25, the Central Cyberspace Administration of China issued a
notice to strengthen the management of chaos in the “rice circle”, and
put forward ten requirements for the treatment of chaos in the “rice
circle”: one is to cancel the list of celebrity artists, and the other
is to optimize and adjust the ranking rules. The third is to strictly
control the star brokerage company, the fourth is to regulate the fan
group accounts, the fifth is to strictly prohibit the presentation of
mutual tearing information, the sixth is to clean up the illegal group
section, the seventh is to not induce fans to consume, the eight is to
strengthen the management of program settings, and the nine is to
strictly control the failure. Tenth is to standardize fund-raising
behaviors for adult participation. The notice specifically mentions
the need to improve political positions, from the perspective of
maintaining online political security and ideological security,
creating a clear cyberspace, and advancing the management of chaos in
the "rice circle". Obviously this is a political action, and all
localities must understand this rectification action from a political
perspective.

No unique coincidence. On August 27, the State Administration of
Taxation announced its decision on punishment for the tax evasion case
of artist Zheng Shuang. According to investigations, Zheng Shuang
starred in the TV series "A Chinese Ghost Story" in 2019, and agreed
with the producer to pay 160 million yuan, and actually obtained 156
million yuan, which was collected in two parts. Among them, the first
part is 48 million yuan, which changes personal income from corporate
income for false declaration and evasion of taxes; the second part is
108 million yuan, where the producer signs a false contract with Zheng
Shuang’s actual control company in the form of "capital increase"
Payment, evade industry supervision to obtain “astronomical
remuneration”, conceal income, make false declarations, and evade
taxes. In the "A Chinese Ghost Story" project, Zheng Shuang's illegal
facts were found to be 43.027 million yuan in tax evasion, and other
taxes were underpaid 16.177800 yuan. At the same time, it was found
that after regulating the taxation order of the film and television
industry in 2018, Zheng Shuang had other performance income of 35.07
million yuan. There were also problems with changing the nature of
personal income in the name of enterprise income and making false
declarations. According to Zheng Shuang’s illegal facts, he was
determined to be tax evasion by 224.26. RMB 10,342,900 in other taxes
were underpaid. Intotal, Zheng Shuang failed to declare his personal
income of 191 million yuan from 2019 to 2020, evaded taxes of
45,269,600 yuan, and underpaid other taxes of 26,520,700 yuan.

According to relevant laws and regulations, Zheng Shuang was imposed a
total fine of 299 million yuan in tax collection, late payment fees
and fines. Among them, the tax recovered according to the law was
71,790,300 yuan, plus a late fee of 8,889,800 yuan; a four-fold fine
of 30,695,700 yuan was imposed on the portion of tax evasion that
changed the nature of income; and the so-called "capital increase" was
imposed on the portion of tax evasion that completely concealed
income. "The fine is 188 million yuan. According to the "Criminal Law
of the People's Republic of China", if the fine is not paid within the
prescribed time limit, the tax authority will transfer it to the
public security authority for handling. The State Administration of
Radio, Film and Television issued a notice requiring all levels of
radio and television broadcasting organizations, radio and television
video-on-demand business establishments, and network audio-visual
program service organizations not to invite Zheng Shuang to
participate in the production of programs, and to stop broadcasting
programs that Zheng Shuang has participated in. Recently, Zhao Wei,
who often appears on the headlines of various news lists, has had an
accident again. On August 26, Zhao Wei’s super words disappeared on
Weibo, and many dramas such as "Returning the Pearl" and "Deep Love in
the Rain", Zhao Wei was deleted from the credits displayed on the
websites of Tencent and iQiyi Go to the name.

It is said that Zhao Wei should have disappeared from the Chinese
public view more than 20 years ago, but she has become more and more
developed. Twenty years ago, she appeared in the public eye wearing
the rising sun flag of the Japanese invaders and was punished by the
whole network. She was not banned. Instead, she called the cloud and
the rain in the Chinese capital market and was known as the Chinese
female version of Buffett. At that time, she was fighting fiercely
with Ma Yun, Wang Lin and other masters. She was able to control
public opinion, and negative news about her was often cleared. Later,
in her film "No Other Love", the male protagonist Dai Liren was a
diehard Taiwanese independence element, and the female protagonist
Kiko Mizuhara was a Japanese anti-Chinese activist who supported the
visit to the Yasukuni Shrine. This caused public outrage. What is
strange is this one. The matter was quickly calmed down. Recently,
Zhao Wei's actor Zhang Zhehan has appeared at the Yasukuni Shrine many
times, making Nazi gestures and making friends with the Japanese right
wing, which has aroused public outrage among the people across the
country. The problem remains that no matter how much negative news
there is, Zhao Wei will never fail. This is always a mysterious
problem. Now it seems that it is not that it is not reported, it is
not the time.

Another American Gao Xiaosong was removed from the shelves at the same
time as Zhao Wei. His programs "Xiao Shuo" and "Xiao Song Qi Tan" have
long been published on the Internet and TV stations in my country. He
talked nonsense about history. He criticized the Chinese to become his
fans.

From rectifying the rice circle to punishing Zheng Shuang, and then
banning Zhao Wei and Gao Xiaosong from the shelves, how do we feel
about what happened in just two days? If we look at this series of
events from a higher political level, we will discover the historical
trend and development trend of a country from some details.

From the suspension of Ant’s listing, to the central government’s
rectification of economic order and anti-monopoly, to the 18.2 billion
fine of Ali and the investigation of Didi, to the solemn commemoration
of the 100th anniversary of the founding of the party by the central
government, the proposal to take the path of common prosperity, and
the recent chaos in the entertainment industry. The series of
rectification actions by the People's Republic of China are telling us
that China is undergoing major changes, from the economic, financial,
cultural, and political fields to a profound change, or a profound
revolution. This is a return from the capital group to the masses of
the people, and this is a transformation from capital-centered to
people-centered. Therefore, this is a political change, the people are
becoming the main body of this change again, and all those who block
this people-centered change will be discarded. This profound change is
also a return, a return to the original intention of the Chinese
Communist Party, a return to the people-centered nature, and a return
to the essence of socialism.

This change will wash away all the dust. The capital market will no
longer become a paradise for capitalists to get rich overnight, the
cultural market will no longer be a paradise for nymphomaniac stars,
and news and public opinion will no longer be a position for
worshipping Western culture. The return of red, the return of heroes,
and the return of blood. . Therefore, we need to control all cultural
chaos and build a lively, healthy, masculine, strong, and
people-oriented culture. We need to combat the chaos of big capital
manipulation, platform monopoly taking all, and bad money driving out
good money in the capital market. Guide the flow of funds to entity
enterprises, to high-tech enterprises, and to the manufacturing
industry. The ongoing chaos of governance and education starting from
governance training institutions and school district housing, so that
education can truly return to civilians and fairness, so that ordinary
people have upward mobility. Space, in the future, we will need to
control high housing prices and high medical expenses, and completely
level the three mountains of education, medical care, and
housing. Although we are not trying to kill the rich and help the
poor, we need to effectively solve the problem of increasing income
gap between the rich and the poor. Common prosperity is to allow
ordinary workers to obtain more income in the distribution of social
wealth. This change will bring a series of new weather to our
society. The current efforts to rectify the entertainment, art, and
film and television circles are far from enough. We must use all means
to combat the various star-chasing and fan-chasing phenomena that
exist in the current society. , Completely put an end to the
phenomenon of nymphs and small fresh meat in the social character, and
truly let the entertainment, art, and film and television circles be
upright and upright. Laborers and ordinary people have become the
masters and protagonists of literature and art.

China is currently facing an increasingly severe and complex
international environment. The United States is implementing
increasingly severe military threats, economic and technological
blockades, financial strikes, political and diplomatic siege against
China, and is launching biological warfare, cyber warfare, and public
opinion against China. Wars and space wars have increasingly launched
a color revolution against China through the fifth column within
China. If at this time, we have to rely on those big capitalists as
the main force of anti-imperialist and anti-hegemony, and are still
catering to the American nipple strategy, so that our young generation
loses their strong and masculine vibes, then we don’t need enemies to
fight. I fell first, just like the Soviet Union back then, letting the
country collapse, letting the country's wealth be looted, and letting
the people fall into serious disaster. Therefore, the profound changes
currently taking place in China are precisely in response to the
current severe and complicated international situation, precisely in
response to the barbaric and ferocious attacks that the United States
has begun to launch against China.

Every one of us can feel that a profound social change has begun. Not
only the capital circle, but also not only the entertainment circle,
it must not only destroy the dead, but also repair the wounds, clean
the house, freshen the air, and make our society healthier. Let social
subjects feel physically and mentally happy. (Li Guangman)

[Correction] [Editor in charge: Wang Jianing]

[John J. Xenakis]

** 04-Sep-2021 World View: Click bait

Burner Prime" Wrote:> John, you should do a little research before declaring that he
> "obviously knows nothing about China."

> I have been following Serpentza for a while now, and if you knew
> anything about him you would never say such a stupid thing. The
> vid is click-baity and a bit hyperventilating, but he definitely
> knows what he's talking about.

> Serpentza lived in China for 14 yrs and has a Chinese wife. He has
> dealt with nasty Chinese authorities and Chinese racism. He knows
> the culture and psyche of the Chinese through his in-laws and
> Chinese friends as well as all his ex-pat friends who lived and
> worked there. He has ridden his motorbike all over the country and
> seen it all. He can speak and read Chinese.

> I don't think your resume can compare at all to Serpentza's who
> has lived and breathed China for over a decade, and continues to.

> You are quick to pull out the "obviously {so-and-so} knows nothing
> about {fill-in-the-blank}". You might want to aim better before
> recklessly pulling that trigger all the time.

I did do research. I listened to a few minutes of the video, and I
downloaded the article he referenced. His comments were hysterical
and idiotic. Maybe it got better later, but the part I heard was
idiotic and hysterical.

I don't know Serpentza, but if he lived in China and has a Chinese
wife, then he should know better.

There are plenty of Americans on cable tv who make hysterical and
idiotic comments about America, and seem to know nothing about
America. I criticize them too.

As you suggest, the video may just be click-bait. You shouldn't be so
credulous as to believe everything you hear. I've criticized you in
the past for making stuff up and misquoting me.

[John J. Xenakis]

** 04-Sep-2021 World View: Insanity

FullMoon Wrote:> It's dramatized for sure. But informative for most. Most people
> don't realize the extent of the CCP insanity. Even semi experts
> on the subject. I think the presenter was shocked at the
> deteriorating conditions, as any non expert should be. He's made
> some interesting videos in China showing the local conditions, and
> gotten into trouble for it.

Well, the part about insanity is true.

Here's another article on the subject:

-- China bans men it sees as not masculine enough from TV
https://apnews.com/article/lifestyle-ent...555a901b3f
(AP, 3-Sep-2021)

One has to marvel at the insanity of whole idea of banning "girlie
men" to achieve "national rejuvenation."

On the other hand, our leaders are indoctrinating us with "critical
race theory," which is even more insane and idiotic. There's just a
lot of insanity going around these days, and if Serpentza's point is
that insanity is dangerous, then he's right.

[John J. Xenakis]

** 05-Sep-2021 World View: Predictions are hard, expecially about the future

Guest Wrote:> I doubt the Chinese would start the war with winter approaching,
> but after the Winter Olympics, when spring arrives, I fully expect
> war to break out.

> I also expect the winter Olympics in China to be a political
> fiasco.

In a world of multiple predictions of possible future scenarios, this
one appears to me to be one more likely than many others.

[John J. Xenakis]

** 05-Sep-2021 World View: Litmus tests

utahbob Wrote:> John, I say cracking down on “girly men” is a way the CCP can
> silence perceived enemies, settle scores, and is an information
> operation to shape public opinion. With the massive surveillance
> apparatus that the CCP has at its disposal, it can develop a
> target list of those who break the law by crawling into
> everybody's cell phone, computer, and smart TV to see how is
> viewing unapproved or “un-Chinese” material. This is another
> “litmus test” for the youth of China if they want to survive under
> the CCP and a weapon to use against them; the opponents or
> potential opponents of Chairman Xi.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bl3I_FdmCmY

Yes. And in America, cracking down with "critical race theory" is a
way that the Democrats can silence perceived enemies, settle scores,
and is an information operation to shape public opinion by controlling
the minds of children. This is another “litmus test” for the youth of
America if they want to survive under the Stalinist Fascist Democrat
regime, and a weapon to use against them, since anyone who objects
will be "canceled."

"Critical race theory" also victimizes blacks, since it indoctrinates
children that blacks are inferior to whites.

A related matter is that black unemployment shot up last week, in the
seventh month of the Biden administration. Trump's policies pushed
black unemployment down to historically low levels, which the
Democrats absolutely HATED, so they must be celebrating and jumping
for joy now that the Biden administration is successfully raising
black unemployment again. This is what the Democrats want.

Meanwhile, more and more blacks are being killed on the streets of
Chicago and other Democrat-run cities, duplicating the policies of the
KKK by other means, and the Democrats must be really thrilled by
what's going on. They're extremely bitter at losing the Civil War,
and they must be really excited that they might be able to re-enslave
blacks. Critical Race Theory will play a key part in the public
indoctrination necessary for the Democrats to re-enslave the blacks,
just like banning "girlie men" is important for the CCP's
indoctrination of students. The Democrats are learning a lot from the
Chinese Communists.

[John J. Xenakis]

** 05-Sep-2021 World View: Fascism and Stalinsm

(09-01-2021, 06:09 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: > Your contradiction reeks. Fascism and Stalinism are not the same
> thing.

Stalinism, Fascism and Chinese Communism are all based on Socialism,
are all dictatorships, they all censor, jail, torture, rape, beat or
kill anyone who opposes them politically, and they're all being used
as a model by the Democrats. By referring to the Stalinist Fascist
Democrat regime, I'm making the point that the Democrats are adopting
the worst features of each.

[pbrower2a]

(09-05-2021, 02:43 PM)John J. Xenakis Wrote: ** 05-Sep-2021 World View: Fascism and Stalinsm

(09-01-2021, 06:09 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: >   Your contradiction reeks. Fascism and Stalinism are not the same
>   thing.

Stalinism, Fascism and Chinese Communism are all based on Socialism,
are all dictatorships, they all censor, jail, torture, rape, beat or
kill anyone who opposes them politically, and they're all being used
as a model by the Democrats.  By referring to the Stalinist Fascist
Democrat regime, I'm making the point that the Democrats are adopting
the worst features of each.

The right-wing ultra-capitalist regimes of Pinochet's Chile, Franco's Spain, and the Greek colonels' regime were all plutocratic. Does the theocratic regime in Iran qualify as "socialist"? Hitler's "national" socialism turned industrial workers into serfs to the benefit of German tycoons. Hitler wanted the antithesis of Soviet-style "international" socialism as in the Soviet Union at the time. Hitler's "socialism" had no semblance of social justice. The Apartheid regime of South Africa was socialism for the white minority but dog-eat dog exploitation for everybody else (OK, the regime defined Chinese, Koreans, and Japanese as "white" if they were investors or administrators).

To be Stalinism has much in common with fascism, but did the Bolsheviks more imitate fascists than the fascists imitated the Bolsheviks?