Presidential election, 2016

[Bob Butler 54]

(12-04-2016, 12:08 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: He was talking to me about the blue side. Unless you've a significant change, you are on the blue side. You may make some moves and try to relate but your still on that side sticking to your scientific values and dreams of saving the world with a group who see's more value in welfare and expanding welfare then they do in work and saving jobs or opening our market via lowering corporate tax rate and creating new jobs naturally with the money/jobs that will flow in. He's a Libertarian. You may want to consider listening to him considering that he wasn't on  on either one of our sides and he chose my side for his own reasons in this election just like I chose the Republican party for my own reasons in 2000'. Why are you loosing us and what are the reasons?

I'll try for some serious answers.

I live in an urban area, and for me a lot of the blue solutions are appropriate, but I'm not interested in shoving them down the throats of folk that don't find them appropriate.

Enlightenment values endorse freedom, that individuals should make their own decisions.  However, governments make laws to punish and prohibit the unacceptable, starting with murder and theft.  Some cultural issues like reproductive heath and the right to own and carry weapons put these two valid functions of government in conflict.  In general, I lean in the direction of freedom and the Enlightenment, but can quite understand perspectives that see some freedoms as unacceptable.  Alas, those who see freedoms as unacceptable will feel it natural to try to force their values and culture on others, using the government as a big club.  I don't think either side should be doing so using the government as a big culture altering club.

While I see my scientific values as dominant, science cannot solve moral and political problems.  I thus lean on Jefferson and Jesus when Newton isn't speaking on a given subject.  I can quite respect the teaching of Jesus, and there is much wisdom in many religious systems from all over the world.  As implied above, I do put Jefferson above Jesus.  While I can respect devout Christians living in His spirit, they should not be using the government as a big club to force their values on others.  Using the government as a big club to force values is in my opinion a big problem, no matter whether it is the blue faction or the red that is doing it.

While you are pegging me as blue and treating me as a blue partisan, surely you know how I post on gun policy issues?  Might you consider that freedom and rule of law can be more important to me that blue ideology?

Finance ought to involve as much science as politics.  Alas, many forum contributors of all stripes seem committed to certain policies as ideologies, as political doctrines.  From my perspective, simplified so this post doesn't get absurdly long, supply side can be beneficial when investors haven't the funds to make necessary healthy investments.  Demand side can be beneficial when there is high unemployment.  Paying down the debt is a good thing whenever the economy is healthy enough to do so.  It is not a question of which policy is most beneficial as a full time always on rigid doctrine.  It is a question of what is the current state of the economy.  What needs to be nudged at this given moment?  As the division of wealth is high, as there is more risk of a bubble than a lack of investment funds, and as unemployment is low, I am not enthused about either supply side or demand side stimulus at this time.  Hey, I am in favor of money being spent to fix bridges, but more because there are a lot of bridges that could really use the repair, not for ideological reasons.

So, yes, your aforementioned posts feature red folk bashing blue folk because blue folk don't listen, are stuck in immobile thought patterns which are unacceptable to half the country.  The country is apt to be a mess until the blue folk begin to listen.  Great.  Fine.  True.  I can endorse the message.  It's just that I feel you could switch the words 'red' and 'blue' in the above and end up with just as good a message.  The red folk are riding high at the moment.  The blue are smarting, are more aware of the need to change, and [wishful thinking] might possibly have marginally open minds.  [/wishful thinking].  This is a hard time to convince red folk to listen and not try to remake the nation in their own image.  They have a president with a minority popular vote.  Should be treated as a clear mandate?   Is it time to stick it to the other half of the nation?

Now, I've touched on guns, women's issues and finance as three important and representative issues.  On one I'm red, on another I'm blue, and on the third I'd cry pox on both houses.  There are any number of other issues.  Let's talk individual issues.  We're not going to get a heck of a lot far rejecting one another and not listening because of color codes.