Debate about Gun Control

[Eric the Green]

(07-04-2016, 08:44 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(07-04-2016, 04:13 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(07-03-2016, 08:10 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: I'm trying to reprise a basic difference in approach between Eric and I.  

You are simply self-deceived.

Someone is self deceived.  

What measures with regard to prohibiting access to weapons do you most wish for?  (I'd suggest limiting rate of fire and magazine size, but propose something.)  To what degree are you willing to grant in perpetuity a right to own and carry weapons for self defense?  I have proposed one tit-for-tat that attempts to grant both sides the most central elements of what they desire.  I'm open to tweaks.  You have persistently rejected anything except those who you disagree with completely surrendering.

I do not propose prohibition. You use that word, but it does not compute.

We have agreed on some control measures. What I most wish for is irrelevant at this time; it can't happen. Maybe someday. I am not in favor of rights to carry weapons. I am in favor of whatever controls can be agreed upon. I shifted my position some time ago in rejecting bans on civilian weapons or confiscations by force. We have gone backwards on guns in recent years, and I want to go forwards again. I do not value the 2nd amendment. I value the Constitution, and the amendment process and the Supreme Court, which allows the Constitution to be a living and not an outdated document. The 2nd Amendment was outdated almost from the start. No, I am not open to a different opinion on those things.

Quote:You are hardly alone.  On this board, as in the general population of the US, very few are open to considering and acknowledging the culture of the other guys.  I'm not getting much in the way of agreement or tweaks from the conservatives either.  I'm not saying that wanting all and being willing to yield nothing is unique to either side, is more common among Blue than Red.  

I do not value the gun culture at all. I value life. Guns are for killing people, and where necessary this should be done by paid professionals as directed and supervised by democratic authorities. Yes, I am values locked on that. I am in favor of whatever legislative compromises can reduce gun violence. I realize today that I can't get my own way on this. My own way matters less to me than reducing needless deaths and injuries.

Quote:The country is very sincerely and deeply divided.  The values are profoundly deep and sincere on both sides.  If you can't acknowledge that, no doubt about the lack of connection with reality.

No doubt about the division of our country on values. The Red side is mainly authoritarian, but also paradoxically libertarian; which actually means allowing economic authority to dominate us. The gun culture is part of the red values. There's no doubt at all about which side is more willing to compromise on this and all issues; the Blue side is. That's reality.