Donald Trump: America's Berlusconi?

[SomeGuy]

(01-15-2017, 02:36 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: If you want to talk about fornication, then there are JFK and Bill  Clinton. But aside from that, those two were fine leaders.

FDR, too.  Now Hitler, on the other hand, was a man of quite abstemious habits.

I am not sure that personal vices are a good proxy for political leadership (or lack thereof).

[David Horn]

(01-15-2017, 01:42 AM)gabrielle Wrote: Trump is very competent at getting his way.  

So is a whiny child.  The similarities are striking.

gabrielle Wrote:And anyway, he's got great people to take care of things.  Really great people.

Who?

[David Horn]

(01-15-2017, 01:12 PM)SomeGuy Wrote:

(01-15-2017, 10:30 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(01-14-2017, 10:26 PM)SomeGuy Wrote: It just happened again!  Look, I appreciate the free ride I am apparently getting in your head, but this has been silly for a while.

Trump ≈ <fill in the blank>:

A.) Hitler
B.) Mussolini
C.) Andrew Jackson
D.) Berlusconi
E.) None of the above.

Whaddya think?

I prefer 'similar to'. None of these guys is really a perfect fit, though Berlusconi has the edge.  He's a modern, media derived narcissist; so is Trump.  You can argue political positions, but I don't really see that being nearly as important.  Neither was/is in it to create great change to his respective country.  They both seem to be primarily into self aggrandizement and wealth accumulation.  Anything policy related is almost accidental.

Check the symbol again, Dave.  It's not an equals sign.  And I dunno, Trump has been banging on for mercantilist trade policies and against illegal immigration since the '80s.  That would be a big change.  Tax cuts for the rich, admittedly, not so much.

For the comments in BOLD: Already noted as you can see.  On the rest, Trump is an enigma.  He says what sells today.  That's not exactly a reliable marker

[SomeGuy]

Quote:For the comments in BOLD: Already noted as you can see.

Ah, I see where you were going with that now.  My apologies.

Quote:On the rest, Trump is an enigma.  He says what sells today.  That's not exactly a reliable marker

Not necessarily indicative of anything, other than a knack for retail politics.  I am reminded of a comment made by one Clare Booth Luce to speak of FDR:

Quote:"Every great leader had his typical gesture.  Hitler the upraised arm, Churchill the V sign.  Roosevelt?"  She licked her index finger and raised it to the wind.

Again, not saying the one is all that similar to the other, just that most of the complaints here could just as easily be (and, at the time, in certain circles, were) made of both.

[pbrower2a]

OK --

Juan Peron
Roberto d'Aubuissson
Ferdinand Marcos
Rafael Trujillo

[SomeGuy]

(01-15-2017, 05:49 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: OK --

Juan Peron
Roberto d'Aubuissson
Ferdinand Marcos
Rafael Trujillo

What about 'em?  I must have missed Trump's experience organizing death-squads, could you elaborate the (actual) similarities, or is this just the latest round of fascist trivia for you to wallow in?

[gabrielle]

(01-15-2017, 04:31 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(01-15-2017, 01:42 AM)gabrielle Wrote: Trump is very competent at getting his way.  

So is a whiny child.  The similarities are striking.

gabrielle Wrote:And anyway, he's got great people to take care of things.  Really great people.

Who?

Great people, the best.  So he doesn't have to listen to daily intelligence briefings and other boring stuff.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-...7a9e80af03

[Odin]

(01-15-2017, 10:39 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(01-14-2017, 10:38 PM)Odin Wrote:

(01-14-2017, 05:08 PM)SomeGuy Wrote: Seriously, Trump as Berlusconi, yay or nay?

I dunno, Silvio seemed more competent than Trump, but I'm not Italian. Also, Berlusconi wasn't a tool of a foreign power.

Berlusconi liked to trot-out his latest conquest, and having her less than fully dressed was a plus.  Not exactly a leadership trait, and one he shares with The Donald. A short story from the Globe and Mail.

I agree on the 'foreign power' comment, though it's hard to know if he thought of the Germans as 'foreign'.

Oh, I forgot about that scandal!

[Odin]

(01-15-2017, 01:09 PM)SomeGuy Wrote:

(01-15-2017, 12:53 AM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:

(01-14-2017, 11:36 PM)SomeGuy Wrote: Like I said, Rags, not only do I not own a television, I rarely watch videos on the Internet, either.

And the '80s were lame!

1.  I own a TeeVee, but it's my puter monitor. I watch youtube stuff 'cause there's no commercials.

2. The '80's.  I do have to disagree.  They were the home of some of the best music, ever.

What YouTube are you watching?  I get commercials all the time!

uBlock Origin is your friend! No more ads or Youtube commercials!

[Ragnarök_62]

(01-15-2017, 08:38 PM)Odin Wrote:

(01-15-2017, 01:09 PM)SomeGuy Wrote:

(01-15-2017, 12:53 AM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:

(01-14-2017, 11:36 PM)SomeGuy Wrote: Like I said, Rags, not only do I not own a television, I rarely watch videos on the Internet, either.

And the '80s were lame!

1.  I own a TeeVee, but it's my puter monitor. I watch youtube stuff 'cause there's no commercials.

2. The '80's.  I do have to disagree.  They were the home of some of the best music, ever.

What YouTube are you watching?  I get commercials all the time!

uBlock Origin is your friend! No more ads or Youtube commercials!

I use /etc/hosts.

[David Horn]

(01-15-2017, 04:47 PM)SomeGuy Wrote:

Quote:For the comments in BOLD: Already noted as you can see.

Ah, I see where you were going with that now.  My apologies.

Quote:On the rest, Trump is an enigma.  He says what sells today.  That's not exactly a reliable marker

Not necessarily indicative of anything, other than a knack for retail politics.  I am reminded of a comment made by one Clare Booth Luce to speak of FDR:

Quote:"Every great leader had his typical gesture.  Hitler the upraised arm, Churchill the V sign.  Roosevelt?"  She licked her index finger and raised it to the wind.

Again, not saying the one is all that similar to the other, just that most of the complaints here could just as easily be (and, at the time, in certain circles, were) made of both.

Of course, Claire Booth Luce was a Republican, so her impressions of FDR were from that perspective.  That said, FDR was good at reading the public and knowing his limits.

[David Horn]

(01-15-2017, 08:23 PM)gabrielle Wrote:

(01-15-2017, 04:31 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(01-15-2017, 01:42 AM)gabrielle Wrote: Trump is very competent at getting his way.  

So is a whiny child.  The similarities are striking.

gabrielle Wrote:And anyway, he's got great people to take care of things.  Really great people.

Who?

Great people, the best.  So he doesn't have to listen to daily intelligence briefings and other boring stuff.

He asked for the most powerful job in the world, but working at it isn't important.  OK.

[SomeGuy]

Quote:Of course, Claire Booth Luce was a Republican, so her impressions of FDR were from that perspective.  That said, FDR was good at reading the public and knowing his limits.

I dunno, she ended up that way, but she started as a liberal supporter of FDR.  Like I said, we'll see what the man actually does, and how events turn out.

[The Wonkette]

(01-15-2017, 04:31 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(01-15-2017, 01:42 AM)gabrielle Wrote: Trump is very competent at getting his way.  

So is a whiny child.  The similarities are striking.

gabrielle Wrote:And anyway, he's got great people to take care of things.  Really great people.

Who?

David, I believe Gabrielle is being snarky, given her past posts.

[SomeGuy]

Quote:David, I believe Gabrielle is being snarky, given her past posts.

The webmaster should really look into that "sarcasm" font.  Lot of mixed messages as of late.

[The Wonkette]

(01-16-2017, 03:34 PM)SomeGuy Wrote:

Quote:David, I believe Gabrielle is being snarky, given her past posts.

The webmaster should really look into that "sarcasm" font.  Lot of mixed messages as of late.

I agree. I sometimes use the "roll eyes" emoticon but it doesn't really do the trick.

[SomeGuy]

Quote:I agree. I sometimes use the "roll eyes" emoticon but it doesn't really do the trick.

Yeah, I try and use emoticons to convey things that would ordinarily be handled by tone and facial expression, but as we have seen recently, sometimes people just don't get it. 
I sure hope that eye-roll got conveyed correctly.