Countdown to a Free America

[pbrower2a]

For those of us who see the Trump Presidency as a regime instead of a 'mere' Administration

Jailbreak, roughly 300 million people, January 20, 2021...

[Eric the Green]

Yeah, but we'll have to do more that count minutes; we'll have to count votes. And we'll need a Democratic candidate whose horoscope "count" is great enough to beat the Drump, if he runs (or can run) again.

[Drakus79]

Here's the main problem with our political situation today. Both parties are divided. On the Republican side you have the neoconservatives vs. the nationalists. This election has determined that the Nationalists are winning. On the Democrat side you have the neoliberals vs. progressives. The neoliberals are still in power but I think everyone sees the writing on the wall. The future of the Democratic Party are the progressives (or socialist democrats). The neocons and neolibs are done for. Neoliberalism may have been a good and pure ideology back in the 30s and 40s when it was trying to reverse the totalitarianism of the time, but they've become corrupt warmongers. It's time for them to go. But are we replacing it with something much worse? What happens when your country becomes dominated by a mix of Nationalism and Socialism? A Totalitarian nightmare. The future true left are the libertarians, the ones fighting for freedom both socially AND economically.

[Eric the Green]

The division of our country is between the parties, more than within the parties. The Republicans include all the neo-cons, neo-liberals and nationalists/xenophobes.

Neo-liberalism is Reaganomics. That's the central Republican ideology. Democrats may have given in to it too much, but it is not central to their platforms.

Libertarian politicians are fighting only for the right of business and corporations to control, exploit and destroy our land and its people. They are neo-liberals.

Supporters of Libertarians would be wise to consider that business has the responsibility to pay taxes, and treat workers, consumers and the environment with respect, and not speculate with other peoples money. Businessmen would be wise to do voluntarily and without resistance what the law requires. Then regulations and taxes would make no difference to them. If they are sometimes onerous and unfair, then good moderate center-left Democrats are there to change or repeal them.

[pbrower2a]

Here's one that counts down by days, hours, minutes, and seconds. It ignores months.

https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/to...me=generic

[David Horn]

(02-02-2017, 06:58 PM)Drakus79 Wrote: Here's the main problem with our political situation today. Both parties are divided. On the Republican side you have the neoconservatives vs. the nationalists. This election has determined that the Nationalists are winning. On the Democrat side you have the neoliberals vs. progressives. The neoliberals are still in power but I think everyone sees the writing on the wall. The future of the Democratic Party are the progressives (or socialist democrats). The neocons and neolib.s are done for. Neoliberalism may have been a good and pure ideology back in the 30s and 40s when it was trying to reverse the totalitarianism of the time, but they've become corrupt warmongers. It's time for them to go. But are we replacing it with something much worse? What happens when your country becomes dominated by a mix of Nationalism and Socialism? A Totalitarian nightmare. The future true left are the libertarians, the ones fighting for freedom both socially AND economically.

Allow unmitigated private power, and get the worst of Gilded Age 1.0. Are you okay with?

[Cynic Hero '86]

(02-04-2017, 10:47 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(02-02-2017, 06:58 PM)Drakus79 Wrote: Here's the main problem with our political situation today. Both parties are divided. On the Republican side you have the neoconservatives vs. the nationalists. This election has determined that the Nationalists are winning. On the Democrat side you have the neoliberals vs. progressives. The neoliberals are still in power but I think everyone sees the writing on the wall. The future of the Democratic Party are the progressives (or socialist democrats). The neocons and neolib.s are done for. Neoliberalism may have been a good and pure ideology back in the 30s and 40s when it was trying to reverse the totalitarianism of the time, but they've become corrupt warmongers. It's time for them to go. But are we replacing it with something much worse? What happens when your country becomes dominated by a mix of Nationalism and Socialism? A Totalitarian nightmare. The future true left are the libertarians, the ones fighting for freedom both socially AND economically.

Allow unmitigated private power, and get the worst of Gilded Age 1.0.  Are you okay with?

Perhaps Restorationism Can emerge from this Morass of Competing Ideologies. If Trump Flounders or if he decides to embrace GOP neoconservatism/Reaganism, perhaps Restorationism Can emerge as a unifying force rather than this soft libertarianism or progressivism?

[Eric the Green]

"decides to embrace GOP neoconservatism/Reaganism" lol

He has outdone him already.

[pbrower2a]

Today is the birthday of our first President, George Washington, who defined the Presidency due to his choices and non-choices of what constitutes the Presidency. He made it a dignified office deserving the respect and honor of Kings, Emperors, Tsars, and Sultans. With a President who has degraded the respect that most of us have for the Presidency, we have 1428 days with a President disgracing the Office that President Washington defined.

I missed the birthday of Abraham Lincoln (2/9), who would be surely sickened of the current Republican President. 1441 days were left that day.

[Marypoza]

(02-02-2017, 05:58 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Yeah, but we'll have to do more that count minutes; we'll have to count votes. And we'll need a Democratic candidate whose horoscope "count" is great enough to beat the Drump, if he runs (or can run) again.

-- apparently he's already filled out the paperwork

http://theweek.com/speedreads/676391/pre...not-normal

[pbrower2a]

May 1, International Labor Day... but for President Trump, Loyalty (to our Great and Glorious Leader Who really won a landslide in the electoral and popular vote except for fraud by Democrats -- snark intended) Day.

1359 days to go. His despotic style deserves no loyalty. Maybe it gets pretended loyalty out of fear.

[pbrower2a]

Happy birthday (100 -- hard to believe it yet) -- President Kennedy!





In case you wondered whether I would use the occasion to make some cheap shots at the current President, what did you expect?

It has been 55 years since this famous (or infamous) rendition of Happy Birthday...

I doubt that many could see much in common between the Presidencies so far of Donald Trump and the first 130 or so days of JFK. By this date in 1961 many people who had voted for Richard Nixon weren't too badly disappointed with the President who had won. By this time in 2017, many who voted for President Trump recognize a huge mistake. President Kennedy and Donald Trump may have won similar numbers of electoral votes, but after that the differences overwhelm us.

Practically nobody was counting the days until America was going to be through with the President. But with Donald Trump I certainly do.

1332 days
31979 hours
1918771 minutes
115126264 seconds

until Wednesday, January 20, 2021 at 9:00:00 am (Sunnyvale time)

It is 1332 days, 11 hours, 31 minutes, 4 seconds

...my 2500th post here!

[Eric the Green]

I'm countin' with ya....

[beechnut79]

(02-04-2017, 10:47 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(02-02-2017, 06:58 PM)Drakus79 Wrote: Here's the main problem with our political situation today. Both parties are divided. On the Republican side you have the neoconservatives vs. the nationalists. This election has determined that the Nationalists are winning. On the Democrat side you have the neoliberals vs. progressives. The neoliberals are still in power but I think everyone sees the writing on the wall. The future of the Democratic Party are the progressives (or socialist democrats). The neocons and neolib.s are done for. Neoliberalism may have been a good and pure ideology back in the 30s and 40s when it was trying to reverse the totalitarianism of the time, but they've become corrupt warmongers. It's time for them to go. But are we replacing it with something much worse? What happens when your country becomes dominated by a mix of Nationalism and Socialism? A Totalitarian nightmare. The future true left are the libertarians, the ones fighting for freedom both socially AND economically.

Allow unmitigated private power, and get the worst of Gilded Age 1.0.  Are you okay with?

Haven't we, for all intents and purposes, been mired in Gilded Age 2.0 for some three decades now? But, despite the creation of a malaise situation which, IMO, is much worse than that of the Carter years, somehow the majority of the public has leared how to compartmentalize the emotions in order to go after the things they value. Any change in political and economic scenery will no doubt occur only if all pleyers are willing to partner for the benefit of all. Then there should be no problem in accomplishing goals. We've been there before and can do it again if a significant portion of the populace will get on board.

[Eric the Green]

(06-03-2017, 09:24 AM)beechnut79 Wrote:

(02-04-2017, 10:47 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(02-02-2017, 06:58 PM)Drakus79 Wrote: Here's the main problem with our political situation today. Both parties are divided. On the Republican side you have the neoconservatives vs. the nationalists. This election has determined that the Nationalists are winning. On the Democrat side you have the neoliberals vs. progressives. The neoliberals are still in power but I think everyone sees the writing on the wall. The future of the Democratic Party are the progressives (or socialist democrats). The neocons and neolib.s are done for. Neoliberalism may have been a good and pure ideology back in the 30s and 40s when it was trying to reverse the totalitarianism of the time, but they've become corrupt warmongers. It's time for them to go. But are we replacing it with something much worse? What happens when your country becomes dominated by a mix of Nationalism and Socialism? A Totalitarian nightmare. The future true left are the libertarians, the ones fighting for freedom both socially AND economically.

Allow unmitigated private power, and get the worst of Gilded Age 1.0.  Are you okay with?

Haven't we, for all intents and purposes, been mired in Gilded Age 2.0 for some three decades now? But, despite the creation of a malaise situation which, IMO, is much worse than that of the Carter years, somehow the majority of the public has learned how to compartmentalize the emotions in order to go after the things they value. Any change in political and economic scenery will no doubt occur only if all players are willing to partner for the benefit of all. Then there should be no problem in accomplishing goals. We've been there before and can do it again if a significant portion of the populace will get on board.

That's right. We are mired, and we can move forward again if we choose to.

Drakus got some of his terms confused in his post. Neo-liberals = libertarians. Those are exact synonyms, and they are Republicans; most of them. When he says "The future of the Democratic Party are the progressives (or socialist democrats)," (or just social democrats), obviously I agree with that, and that is the "left" such as it is in the USA. Most Democrats today are progressive in that way, but there's a gradation in opinion on various issues as is natural. Obviously the libertarians are right-wing, though, so they can't be Democrats or democratic socialists or the "true Left." They are quite the opposite: neo-liberals. We need social and economic freedom, but that means freedom for the people, not freedom for business to ignore and resist their responsibility to pay taxes, pay fair wages and not do harm, which is what neo-liberals like Trump and Ryan, and Gingrich, Bush and Reagan before them, promote and empower. That's unmitigated private power, as David well put it; not "economic freedom," as the neo-liberals/libertarians call it.

[Galen]

(06-03-2017, 05:57 PM)Eric the Obtuse Wrote:

(06-03-2017, 09:24 AM)beechnut79 Wrote:

(02-04-2017, 10:47 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(02-02-2017, 06:58 PM)Drakus79 Wrote: Here's the main problem with our political situation today. Both parties are divided. On the Republican side you have the neoconservatives vs. the nationalists. This election has determined that the Nationalists are winning. On the Democrat side you have the neoliberals vs. progressives. The neoliberals are still in power but I think everyone sees the writing on the wall. The future of the Democratic Party are the progressives (or socialist democrats). The neocons and neolib.s are done for. Neoliberalism may have been a good and pure ideology back in the 30s and 40s when it was trying to reverse the totalitarianism of the time, but they've become corrupt warmongers. It's time for them to go. But are we replacing it with something much worse? What happens when your country becomes dominated by a mix of Nationalism and Socialism? A Totalitarian nightmare. The future true left are the libertarians, the ones fighting for freedom both socially AND economically.

Allow unmitigated private power, and get the worst of Gilded Age 1.0.  Are you okay with?

Haven't we, for all intents and purposes, been mired in Gilded Age 2.0 for some three decades now? But, despite the creation of a malaise situation which, IMO, is much worse than that of the Carter years, somehow the majority of the public has learned how to compartmentalize the emotions in order to go after the things they value. Any change in political and economic scenery will no doubt occur only if all players are willing to partner for the benefit of all. Then there should be no problem in accomplishing goals. We've been there before and can do it again if a significant portion of the populace will get on board.

That's right. We are mired, and we can move forward again if we choose to.

Drakus got some of his terms confused in his post. Neo-liberals = libertarians. Those are exact synonyms, and they are Republicans; most of them.

You are so full of shit.  First thing you got wrong is that many libertarians register as member of the Libertarian Party or as independent.  If anything Republicans on the whole are held in contempt by libertarians with notable exceptions such as Ron Paul.  If the neo-liberals and libertarians were the same then Obozocare would have been nuked straight off and the Republicans wouldn't be trying to pass a watered down version of Obozocare.  This replacement will fail for the same reasons as Obozocare because the same basic structure is there.

[pbrower2a]

Gal;en -- you could better serve your cause by being more polite. I've tried to use wit against some of the most loathsome people on the Web -- like the sorts of people who think that "New York City" begins with the letter "J", or by turning their arguments against them. Millions of people consider Barack Obama a fine President, and millions more are finding out how much better he is as President than is Donald Trump.

My suggested insults for Donald Trump are more subtle -- like getting the word "trump" out of the play of contract bridge. Plenty of words rhyme with trump.

[Eric the Green]

(06-03-2017, 10:15 PM)Galen Wrote:

(06-03-2017, 05:57 PM)Eric the Obtuse Wrote:

(06-03-2017, 09:24 AM)beechnut79 Wrote:

(02-04-2017, 10:47 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(02-02-2017, 06:58 PM)Drakus79 Wrote: Here's the main problem with our political situation today. Both parties are divided. On the Republican side you have the neoconservatives vs. the nationalists. This election has determined that the Nationalists are winning. On the Democrat side you have the neoliberals vs. progressives. The neoliberals are still in power but I think everyone sees the writing on the wall. The future of the Democratic Party are the progressives (or socialist democrats). The neocons and neolib.s are done for. Neoliberalism may have been a good and pure ideology back in the 30s and 40s when it was trying to reverse the totalitarianism of the time, but they've become corrupt warmongers. It's time for them to go. But are we replacing it with something much worse? What happens when your country becomes dominated by a mix of Nationalism and Socialism? A Totalitarian nightmare. The future true left are the libertarians, the ones fighting for freedom both socially AND economically.

Allow unmitigated private power, and get the worst of Gilded Age 1.0.  Are you okay with?

Haven't we, for all intents and purposes, been mired in Gilded Age 2.0 for some three decades now? But, despite the creation of a malaise situation which, IMO, is much worse than that of the Carter years, somehow the majority of the public has learned how to compartmentalize the emotions in order to go after the things they value. Any change in political and economic scenery will no doubt occur only if all players are willing to partner for the benefit of all. Then there should be no problem in accomplishing goals. We've been there before and can do it again if a significant portion of the populace will get on board.

That's right. We are mired, and we can move forward again if we choose to.

Drakus got some of his terms confused in his post. Neo-liberals = libertarians. Those are exact synonyms, and they are Republicans; most of them.

You are so full of shit.  First thing you got wrong is that many libertarians register as member of the Libertarian Party or as independent.  If anything Republicans on the whole are held in contempt by libertarians with notable exceptions such as Ron Paul.  If the neo-liberals and libertarians were the same then Obozocare would have been nuked straight off and the Republicans wouldn't be trying to pass a watered down version of Obozocare.  This replacement will fail for the same reasons as Obozocare because the same basic structure is there.

All that doesn't matter in the least. Republicans of course are not pure libertarians, as I mentioned. They are not pure enough for you or many of those libertarians who register with the Party. Trump and the Republicans want to utterly decimate Obamacare, and the Freedom Caucus wants to repeal it altogether. So what? There's always shades of opinion. Republicans are just the libertarians who can actually get elected in the USA, just as you might say that Democrats are the social democrats who can get elected. Pure Socialists and pure Libertarians are not going to get elected or implement their policies in America.

Neo-liberalism and libertarianism are just two words for the same thing; that is a matter of definition. Again, Republicans are not pure neo-liberals either, nor are they pure classical liberals.

[pbrower2a]

It's the Fourth, as far west as California, Oregon, and Washington.

Sorry for the lack of patriotism when Donald Trump is President, but on this Fourth I would rather that my state (Michigan) were a province of Canada.

It is 1296 days, 9 hours, 26 minutes, 39 seconds

until Wednesday, January 20, 2021 at 9:00:00 am (Sunnyvale time)

[Bob Butler 54]

(07-04-2017, 02:33 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: It's the Fourth, as far west as California, Oregon, and Washington.

Sorry for the lack of patriotism when Donald Trump is President, but on this Fourth I would rather that my state (Michigan) were a province of Canada.

Don't know what it means, but on my lake in the back woods of Plymouth MA the fireworks display was much smaller than usual.