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Are Some Haters Of Government Sensing The Looming Regeneracy?
(03-21-2017, 07:21 AM)Odin Wrote:
(03-20-2017, 05:34 PM)Kinser79 Wrote:
(03-20-2017, 07:18 AM)Odin Wrote:
(03-19-2017, 03:54 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: Let us assume that it is cyicism.  Have you ever stopped to consider that there may be a reason for that cynicism?  A lot of governmental programs don't accomplish what they set out to do.  Many make the problem worse, and some are just plain stupid.

Then you find out what went wrong and try something else, you don't just throw up your hands and go "might as well not try", what kind of weak-minded defeatist attitude is that???

(03-19-2017, 03:54 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: Despite being accused of being a Libertarian all the time on this board I still think there is a place for government in the US.  I just think that places is Tallahassee, or Bismark or Jefferson City and not Washington DC.

That works fine for large and populous states, or for states that are small but densely populated or where the vast majority of the population is concentrated in one metropolitan area; but in a lot of the more rural red states the tax base just isn't there and federal help is needed to keep things from going to shit.

And if you have seen North Dakota state government you would rather have Washington running things than that bunch of morons, loons, and crooks in Bismarck.  Tongue

1.  Let us suppose we agree (not that we necessarily do), who do you think is more likely to respond to X isn't working lets try Y?  The slow moving lumbering Federal Government who has difficulty passing a budget or a State Government which is forced to be responsive to the people?  I'd put my money on the states.

2.  Never been to North Dakota, don't care to--I hear the place is cold so it isn't relevant to Kinser's interests.  That said lets take a look at Florida.  We have crooks, loons and morons in our state government too.  Yet I'd still trust Tallahassee over Washington any day.  It is far easier to remove crooks, loons, and morons from the state house than it is from the Capitol.  Also we have more frequent election cycles so...

3.  Federalism works for all states, not just large states or densely populated states.  Florida happens to be both.  By and large the problems the states encounter in the small states and less densely populated states is one of unfunded federal mandates (IE the federal government sticking its nose where it doesn't belong).  This is a problem for states like Mississippi, Alabama, Indiana and Wyoming.

Sometimes the Federal government has to step in when the state governments are being incompetent/corrupt due to being corrupted by powerful interests contrary to the will of the people in the state, or to protect people's rights from a state government full of socially backward idiots.

And for the record I am opposed to unfunded mandates. All federal mandates should have at least some federal funding attached.

Which is what happened in the South following the Emmett Till murder and other racially motivated atrocities.
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(03-21-2017, 07:21 AM)Odin Wrote:
(03-20-2017, 05:34 PM)Kinser79 Wrote:
(03-20-2017, 07:18 AM)Odin Wrote:
(03-19-2017, 03:54 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: Let us assume that it is cyicism.  Have you ever stopped to consider that there may be a reason for that cynicism?  A lot of governmental programs don't accomplish what they set out to do.  Many make the problem worse, and some are just plain stupid.

Then you find out what went wrong and try something else, you don't just throw up your hands and go "might as well not try", what kind of weak-minded defeatist attitude is that???

(03-19-2017, 03:54 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: Despite being accused of being a Libertarian all the time on this board I still think there is a place for government in the US.  I just think that places is Tallahassee, or Bismark or Jefferson City and not Washington DC.

That works fine for large and populous states, or for states that are small but densely populated or where the vast majority of the population is concentrated in one metropolitan area; but in a lot of the more rural red states the tax base just isn't there and federal help is needed to keep things from going to shit.

And if you have seen North Dakota state government you would rather have Washington running things than that bunch of morons, loons, and crooks in Bismarck.  Tongue

1.  Let us suppose we agree (not that we necessarily do), who do you think is more likely to respond to X isn't working lets try Y?  The slow moving lumbering Federal Government who has difficulty passing a budget or a State Government which is forced to be responsive to the people?  I'd put my money on the states.

2.  Never been to North Dakota, don't care to--I hear the place is cold so it isn't relevant to Kinser's interests.  That said lets take a look at Florida.  We have crooks, loons and morons in our state government too.  Yet I'd still trust Tallahassee over Washington any day.  It is far easier to remove crooks, loons, and morons from the state house than it is from the Capitol.  Also we have more frequent election cycles so...

3.  Federalism works for all states, not just large states or densely populated states.  Florida happens to be both.  By and large the problems the states encounter in the small states and less densely populated states is one of unfunded federal mandates (IE the federal government sticking its nose where it doesn't belong).  This is a problem for states like Mississippi, Alabama, Indiana and Wyoming.

Sometimes the Federal government has to step in when the state governments are being incompetent/corrupt due to being corrupted by powerful interests contrary to the will of the people in the state, or to protect people's rights from a state government full of socially backward idiots.

And for the record I am opposed to unfunded mandates. All federal mandates should have at least some federal funding attached.

So your contention to any corruption or incompetence on the state level is to send it to a central federal authority which throughout this past century has demonstrated it is at least as corrupt and at least as incompetent as, and in both cases often more so, any state government?

That only moves the problem around Odin, it does not solve it. And it doesn't even move it in a direction where this problem can be solved, only to where it can be concentrated.

I too oppose unfunded mandates. If the Feds insist that the States Do X then they should provide Y funds for doing X. Absent of Y funds I see no reason why the states need to be bound to their insistence on doing X. Indeed in many cases if doing X was so great, and made sense for said state they would come up with the necessary funds and do X on their own
It really is all mathematics.

Turn on to Daddy, Tune in to Nationalism, Drop out of UN/NATO/WTO/TPP/NAFTA/CAFTA Globalism.
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(Yesterday, 10:19 AM)Kinser79 Wrote: I too oppose unfunded mandates.  If the Feds insist that the States Do X then they should provide Y funds for doing X.  Absent of Y funds I see no reason why the states need to be bound to their insistence on doing X.  Indeed in many cases if doing X was so great, and made sense for said state they would come up with the necessary funds and do X on their own

The actual case, though not in practice, is that unless a power is explicitly delegated to Congress then the several states are not obligated to do anything.  That is the point of a written constitution and something the ninth and tenth amendments make perfectly clear to anyone who is actually read the Constitution.

You are right about the Feds being equally or more incompetent than the states.  Considering the problems with central planning, this is to be expected.
Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard. -- H.L. Mencken

If one rejects laissez faire on account of man's fallibility and moral weakness, one must for the same reason also reject every kind of government action.   -- Ludwig von Mises
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