Presidential election, 2016

[radind]

I am relieved and now have some hope for the future of the USA. Looking forward to seeing how this unfolds in practice. There has been too much  speculation based on assumptions.

[Earl and Mooch]

One of my moderate Republican (and Mormon) friends didn't vote for Trump because he saw the following scenario happening should he win: the Democrats take Congress in 2018, and win the White House more or less permanently in 2020, due to Trump's sheer incompetence. We shall see.

[pbrower2a]

I have lost all faith in American politics. Our economic system is nothing more now than a machine to ensure that the elites get whatever they want from the common man.

Evil people have found how to game the system, and in so doing they have wrecked it. We have a demagogue, sociopath, and kleptocrat as President and we have a majority of empty suits that corporate lobbyists can expect to follow orders to serve only about a percentage of the American people.

Whatever pride I might have had in being an American I have lost -- maybe forever. Were it a simple measure to change nationality I would do so now.

We might as well demolish those giant sculptures at Mount Rushmore. Admirable as were the men those sculptures represent, those four greats no longer have any relevance to American politics. The veneer of democracy is but a sham.

I especially feel shame in being a white American, the demographic that foolishly chose a man who will be a tyrant. Our elected government will soon be just another criminal enterprise. Furthermore I am now convinced that we will never have another free election.

America has become the Evil Empire.

I say of those who voted thinking that Donald Trump would make America Great Again -- the only thing great about him will be the second Great Depression that will begin on his watch. He will start wars for profit, and your children will be the first to join -- and return in body bags.

I will get no satisfaction in telling you "I told you so!" when it happens. I tell this to you now when you have yet to experience the tragedy.

[Eric the Green]

People have been warned. I expect they will close their eyes, as they always do, and say all of this is just peachy keen, and vote their bad leaders in again for more. As Patrick McGoohan said, "everybody votes for a dictator."

Portrait of American elections:

[Bob Butler 54]

I'm trying to find an upside.  I keep telling myself that before you get an FDR or Lincoln, you have to put up with a Hoover or Buchanan.  Before the massive transformation, the old culture has to drive itself into the ground.  If Hillary went in, with Republicans controlling both houses, she wouldn't have gotten all that far anyway.  To change a culture, to make a large part of the population shift world views and values, one needs a really really big disaster.  We now have the potential for a really big disaster.  Hillary might have managed a few baby steps forward, leaving regeneracy no closer.

Trump has promised borrow and spend trickle down.  Under prior Republican presidents this has been horrible, but will the symptoms show before 2020?  Bush 43 made it last 8 years.  He almost strung it out so the collapse happened on Obama's watch.

Trump has brought the race problem fully alive, making open prejudice more common.  What form will the backlash take?

During the campaign, he would flare anger whenever opposed.  Will this continue as President?  How much more difficult will this make forming a governing coalition?  Will the prime tension be red - blue, or establishment - Trump?

I'm not happy, but we'll have to see what happens at this point.

[David Horn]

(11-09-2016, 08:11 AM)radind Wrote: I am relieved and now have some hope for the future of the USA. Looking forward to seeing how this unfolds in practice. There has been too much  speculation based on assumptions.

Tearing up the last 8 years and extending the 50 year right-wing hold on the SCOTUS for another 20 is about as reactionary as politics gets.  Sorry, but society is moving ahead at flank speed, and old politics will look even worse now than it did before ... which got us the Great Recession, if you remember.  Putting it on steroids, as full control by one party can do, may crater the economy, and there is no way to fix it with a SCOTUS that adheres to rules written in the Agricultural Age. 

You may wish to chose apprehensive rather that relieved.

[Kinser79]

(11-09-2016, 03:57 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(11-09-2016, 08:11 AM)radind Wrote: I am relieved and now have some hope for the future of the USA. Looking forward to seeing how this unfolds in practice. There has been too much  speculation based on assumptions.

Tearing up the last 8 years and extending the 50 year right-wing hold on the SCOTUS for another 20 is about as reactionary as politics gets.  Sorry, but society is moving ahead at flank speed, and old politics will look even worse now than it did before ... which got us the Great Recession, if you remember.  Putting it on steroids, as full control by one party can do, may crater the economy, and there is no way to fix it with a SCOTUS that adheres to rules written in the Agricultural Age. 

You may wish to chose apprehensive rather that relieved.

But Mr. Horn you assume that Trump and Trumpism is the same old thing. It isn't. It can't be. Trump and Trumpism is hated by the man. Or have you stopped paying attention sometime in the mid-00s?

[Marypoza]

The peckerwoods have spoken 

[Kinser79]

(11-09-2016, 04:34 PM)Marypoza Wrote: The peckerwoods have spoken 

And the Negros what have jobs, and the Latinos what were born here, and all the other deplorables.





Michael Moore might be an obese libtard fool, but even a blind hog finds an acorn every now and then.

[Eric the Green]

Paul Ryan makes the war on the environment a top priority for our new unified Republican Party government.

[Marypoza]

(11-09-2016, 04:53 PM)Kinser79 Wrote:

(11-09-2016, 04:34 PM)Marypoza Wrote: The peckerwoods have spoken 

And the Negros what have jobs, and the Latinos what were born here, and all the other deplorables.





Michael Moore might be an obese libtard fool, but even a blind hog finds an acorn every now and then.

-- & a broken clock is right 2x a day

[Dan '82]

These former Obama strongholds sealed the election for Trump              
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/...-counties/

[pbrower2a]

(11-09-2016, 01:48 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: I'm trying to find an upside.  I keep telling myself that before you get an FDR or Lincoln, you have to put up with a Hoover or Buchanan.  Before the massive transformation, the old culture has to drive itself into the ground.  If Hillary went in, with Republicans controlling both houses, she wouldn't have gotten all that far anyway.  To change a culture, to make a large part of the population shift world views and values, one needs a really really big disaster.  We now have the potential for a really big disaster.  Hillary might have managed a few baby steps forward, leaving regeneracy no closer.

Trump has promised borrow and spend trickle down.  Under prior Republican presidents this has been horrible, but will the symptoms show before 2020?  Bush 43 made it last 8 years.  He almost strung it out so the collapse happened on Obama's watch.

Trump has brought the race problem fully alive, making open prejudice more common.  What form will the backlash take?

During the campaign, he would flare anger whenever opposed.  Will this continue as President?  How much more difficult will this make forming a governing coalition?  Will the prime tension be red - blue, or establishment - Trump?

I'm not happy, but we'll have to see what happens at this point.

Character is unlikely to change from a campaign to power. He is 70, and he is not going to make any abrupt changes of temperament unless such relates to organic disease. If he flies off the handle and suggests violent solutions to a problem at a campaign, then he will do so while doing the normal functions of government.

Inexperienced as he is in public administration he has a high likelihood of making a catastrophic blunder in anything outside his level of expertise, which is developing and leasing high-end real estate in a high-cost, low-vacancy area. That is far easier than being a slumlord in Cleveland. He likely thinks that foreign policy is little more than making business deals. That's what Joachim von Ribbentrop (who did some horrible deeds as Foreign Minister of the Third Reich) thought; he could parlay his experience as a champagne salesman into diplomacy, and that did not work well. The power of persuasion is not enough to get the leaders of foreign powers to do what is contrary to their national interests and the sensibilities of their people. I have no idea of how he sees the military chain of command or of the intelligence services, but his headstrong way will be very different from what Barack Obama does. Not privy to the decision-making process I can only guess how Barack Obama does things -- ask about the risks and benefits of different approaches to a problem and make the most rational choice. Donald Trump will do things differently, simply barking out an order and letting the generals and admirals figure it out. That will be a muddle.

I believe that he will leave Democrats completely out of any decision-making process. About as diametric an opposite in style with Barack Obama i doubt that he will use the abilities of this ex-President well. He may end up with few conflicts with Democrats who will be completely irrelevant except in the wake of a natural disaster, in which case he will surely dictate terms that make cooperation difficult. (Use contractors of my choosing, probably those who kick back to the GOP political campaigns or get no aid).

He is going to be the worst President since James Buchanan -- maybe even worse because unlike Buchanan he will have no political experience. One term?

We will then be ready for something very different. If we still have a choice, something of which I have little confidence even if he has an economic disaster and some military or diplomatic debacle to his name. I predict that the Republicans are going to try some huge effort of voter suppression to keep Democrats and liberalism irrelevant indefinitely. After all, there is but one virtue in a plutocratic order: p4rofit for economic elites irrespective of the human cost.

Yes I assume the worst. Donald Trump is a horrible person.

[pbrower2a]

Needed addendum: anything that goes well in America under Donald Trump will be sheer luck after the positive effects of the Obama Administration fade into irrelevancy.

One good thing about being irrelevant because one is a liberal: one will not be pulled into his hare-brained or even criminal deeds. Once one's associates get into power (whether in 2020 or 2056) one will have no obligation to use the services of those involved in malfeasance ranging from extremism to corruption and violations of human rights. Democrats have much to lose and little to gain in the Senatorial elections of 2018, and the gerrymander of 2010 and likely voter suppression will probably give Trump more stooges in the House of Lobbyists.

2020? I expect the Republicans to do everything to win the election -- even violence.

[Odin]

Cracked: How Half of America Lost It's Fucking Mind

Or, how patronizing urban elitism and the collapse of small town economies caused Trump.

I've been warming of my fellow left-wingers about this for ages, screaming like some Old Testament prophet, and it has kept falling on deaf ears, because what do we dumb hicks from the sticks know?

[Dan '82]

I just looked up the results from my hometown, it's a place that demographically should by favorable to Trump (75% of the population lacks a college degree the median household income $56,000.

2012, Obama 54, Romney 45, Johnson 1.
2016 Clinton 54, Trump 41, Johnson 4.

[Eric the Green]

Sent to me from People for the American Way:

Eric,

I hate having to send this email. This was an election of historic importance with so, so much at stake. Trump’s candidacy was like nothing we’ve ever seen, and we did not dodge a bullet. We took a direct hit.

Thanks to your incredible support, we did everything it would have taken to win a normal election. But this was no normal election.

Together, we helped turn out Latino voters in record numbers -- and it made the difference in the West, with Democratic victories in Colorado and Nevada, where Clinton won, we turned the state legislature blue, and we elected the first Latina to the US Senate. And even in Arizona, the notorious Sheriff Joe Arpaio was soundly defeated. But in the Midwest and the South, our efforts did not and could not offset:

The consolidation of Republican support behind Trump … despite his entire campaign being based on lies, scapegoating, and trashing one minority group after another, white Republicans -- including the college-educated suburbanites and women who pollsters told us were abandoning their party’s presidential candidate -- all came home to Trump in the end.
The sheer number of disaffected rural white voters who cast their vote with Trump and his empty promises to address their anxieties about the direction of the country.

In part, what happened yesterday was what’s been described as a “white-lash” against the changing demographics of our country -- the browning of America. But it wasn’t all racism, or sexism, or any other -ism.

Trump doesn’t have a real plan to replace all the manufacturing jobs that have left those swing states where he (barely) edged out Hillary Clinton. Nor does he have a plan to restore the dignity many of these working people have lost in the face of an increasingly unequal economy. But Democrats and progressives need to … because the pain felt by these Americans is real.

Despite statistical indicators that show strong job growth and a healing economy, growing inequality and the struggles facing Americans provide fertile ground for the rise of demagogues who are quick to make grand promises -- whether they can back them up or not.

Trump has challenged our First Amendment freedoms and showed contempt for our Constitution. Now he’ll assume the highest office in the land.

Today is a day for mourning because this is a national tragedy. But we get through tragedies. And we pick ourselves up and continue to fight, because it’s the only thing we can do, and because the American Way is now about to come under attack like never before.

Donald Trump and Mike Pence in the White House … far-right majorities in the House and Senate … executive branch appointments and Supreme Court nominees that will do real damage to the values we care about.

We can’t -- and we shouldn’t -- sugarcoat it: this is a catastrophe for America, the world, and possibly for our fundamental rights.

But we will survive it. We will learn from the loss. Donald Trump as a candidate broke every rule. He completely changed the game and the progressive movement will have to recalibrate in some areas to adapt.

But between now and the next election, we have so much more to do, because groups like PFAW and activists like you will be, in many ways, the last line of defense against an aggressive right-wing agenda that threatens the very fabric of who we are as a country.

One last point:

We woke up to election results that were on the wrong side of history this morning but WE are on the right side of history. And we will prevail.

In 1994 in California, Republican Governor Pete Wilson ran for reelection alongside an anti-immigrant ballot initiative -- the infamous Prop 187. On Election Day, both Wilson and 187 won, and they won big.

But Republicans’ demonizing immigrants in that campaign forced a sea change in California politics that still exists to this day. It took some time, and the Right Wing won in that 1994 election, but now California Republicans are all but an endangered species, with a state government controlled fully by progressive Democrats and California blazing the trail for many important progressive reforms.

We've been slowed but we have not been broken ... because this organization and this movement are simply not built to break.

So let us mourn today. Because, tomorrow, it’s once again time to fight.

We are so grateful to have you with us. We’re going to need each other in the dark days ahead.

Thank you.

Sincerely,

Michael Keegan, President

[Eric the Green]

(11-09-2016, 06:56 PM)Odin Wrote: Cracked: How Half of America Lost It's Fucking Mind

Or, how patronizing urban elitism and the collapse of small town economies caused Trump.

I've been warming of my fellow left-wingers about this for ages, screaming like some Old Testament prophet, and it has kept falling on deaf ears, because what do we dumb hicks from the sticks know?

What DO you guys know? That you know that you want your guns? Or what, exactly do you know? You tell me.

A majority of you guys (though not you) vote on the basis of personal insult and resentment about what some urban folks might say about you.

This time, some people on the coasts and near the southern border voted against what the rural folks and their candidate said loudly about them. They were outvoted this time, but that could change.

If people vote on the basis of personal feelings, and who thinks what about whom, it obscures the issues that matter.

But keep on screaming. You won't stop, whether you need to stop or not, or whether anyone insults you guys or not. That's the way you are.

Pretty dumb. Pretty ignorant. That's what a lot of you guys are, as demonstrated by how you vote. And if you vote because of what we say, because of how you vote, it's a vicious circle. Not that this concerns you at all.

I'm sorry, but I am even more mad at what you do, than you are about what we say about what you do.

[Eric the Green]

It remains to be seen what Trump is able to do.

In congress, some of his plans may be stopped by filibuster; unless the Republicans vote almost entirely for the "nuclear option" to get rid of the filibuster.

But if not, I don't know if Obamacare can be repealed and replaced, as they want. Will Trump demonstrate his self-vaunted deal-making abilities, and get some kind of compromise through that fixes some of the problems, and causes new ones? Will it be called Trumpcare? That would be the best case scenario. Real health care reform was never made in the first place. It has taken over a century in America, and this will just be another stage toward health care for all, if it ever happens.

Will he ignore or defy trade agreements, or try to renegotiate NAFTA? What can he do? How much difference would it make to the poor middle class whites whom he promised to take care of? Would he cause ruinous trade wars?

What happens to the people in the heartland who support him, when trickle-down economics fails again? Will those people ever learn, or will they go on knocking "socialism" forever?

Can he really pass infrastructure building, and how would the Republican congress pay for it?

How scared should we be about a man who is often baited into personal tiffs having his hands on the nuclear codes? I'm scared. How will he deal with his plan to make our allies pay more? Will he destroy NATO and invite Putin into Estonia? Will Russia have a free hand to conquer eastern Ukraine? How will Europe deal with the steady stream of Syrian refugees caused by our failure to help the rebels there? Will the same right-wing nationalism rising there in response force the Syrians to die or wander homeless forever?

How severe will damage be to the environment, whom he and Paul Ryan have pledged to wage all-out war on? What can be done to stop them, and at what cost to personal life and limb?

[Danilynn]

This election, because of the Supreme Court issue, was THE SINGLE most important election of the last decade.

I don't want the second amendment gutted, without it the other 9 are in serious jeopardy from the loons I have seen rioting over this election. Guess what snowflake, half of America felt just like you all apparently feel (in 2008 &2012) without babbling and bawling in youtube videos or rioting because we didn't win. We dealt with it, bitched when applicable and did everything possible to put someone who felt like we did that the book "1984" was meant as a warning not an instructional manual.

Kinser and I, both warned and told all ya'll a year ago. a full blinking year ago, that President Elect Donald J. Trump was gonna do just what he did last night. You can only shove so much illogical crap down our throats here in "rural bitter clinger deplorable" flyover country so long before we get fed up with the lunacy and fight back. And fight back hard.

Guess what, Gen X is grown up and before 2024 we WILL TAKE the majority regardless of party affiliation in the house and senate. And we are a catalyst for change. We are ruthless and if we can't fix, we will watch it burn to re-build it.

Time to get onboard the Trump Train and lend a hand to making our country run right and not on acid fumes from Woodstock or sit back and watch us obliterate it. Cause either way, gen x is pissed, and we will fix it.