Let's make fun of Trump, bash him, etc. while we can!

[Eric the Green]

I see all these pictures of women crying and weeping for their families lost in all the violence we the USA has helped cause or allowed to happen all over the world, and I feel so sorry for them. But I feel safe that I live safe in wealthy and peaceful America. But Tuesday night, women and men were weeping and crying and in shock over the fact that we elected a bully in chief. All the threats and insults we thought were enough to discredit him so that people would not believe the lies about Hillary and instead vote for a Lady America. Instead, now the liar in chief and insulter in chief has won the White House through lies and insults. That's what we wanted, and that's what we'll fucking get. LIES, and the bigger the lie, the more people will believe it. And insults and bullying, and innocent people shot, black and white; and riots and killings and women weeping and children lost and we voted for our country to be like all those other countries, and the dirty chickens are coming home to roost folks.

[Kinser79]

(11-11-2016, 02:16 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(11-10-2016, 06:56 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: I have to disagree with the use of corporeal punishment Classic Xer.  Quite simply it isn't effective parenting.  Of course my views are informed by Stephan Molyneux's work on that topic.

@Eric-the-ignoramus

Slate is a tabloid.  You may as well quote from the National Inquirer.  No wait, that rag has a better reputation. But at least it isn't the Huffington Compost.

I never received a crack on the ass that wasn't deserved. My views come from first hand knowledge and experience as usual. Knowing the result it had with me, I consider it to be a positive thing as far as my life is concerned.

In my personal experience spanking is not effective. Not saying I never was spanked without deserving it, but it simply wasn't effective. For me my currency was the radio and my music collection. Taking that away was far more effective than anything else.

That being said, research indicates that corporeal punishment works poorly and lowers the child's IQ and as such should be used as a last resort if used at all.

[noway2]

(11-11-2016, 02:14 PM)taramarie Wrote: Different people see them in different ways. It sounds like typically urban folk are more than likely to see rural folk as fools if we are to go on Odin's personal experience.

For some time now, I have been coming to the conclusion that the fracture line that is growing in this country is largely urban versus rural, or it can generally be categorized into one with a high degree of correlation.  As I can only really speak for myself, I will present my view on this.  I currently live in and own a home in a city but I also own a sizable tract of rural  (actually it is planned as less than rural and classified as agricultural) property that i plan to move to.  Consequently, I believe that i have an understanding of both the rural and urban perspectives to some degree, though I lean towards the rural.

The hands down, number one reason I want to move out to the rural environment is to be left the hell alone.  I do not want people who live on a postage stamp passing rules and trying to stipulate regulations on what I do with my land.  I want to raise a large portion of my own food including vegetables and animals.  I want to be largely self sufficient.  I accept responsibility for myself and I don't want government hand outs. I am tired of being taxed to death because some urban population center holds a vote and then holds their hand out. 

While I understand the systemic problems, including things like lack of affordable healthcare coverage, dwindling prospects for the "American dream", bleak retirement outlooks, etc, I do not accept the answer as being government forced wealth redistribution.  I didn't get a government hand out on my student loan.  I do not get a government subsidy on my housing.  I do not get a government break on my health care.  I have to work for those things and pay for them.  Similarly, I don't want a bunch of illegal immigrants coming to my country and leaching off the system by claiming a bazillion dependents on a fake SSN to avoid paying taxes and using the emergency room for their medical care at my expense.  Along those same lines my ancestors were not responsible for slavery and I don't owe the blacks one damned dime and see instead a group that needs to pull their pants up, learn to speak proper English and get a damned job instead of blocking the highway because they're pissed off.  I see these BLM riots and it looks like nothing but a bunch of animals that need to be put down and it is why when I left the house today I made sure my spouse had a Glock with several extra magazines and I left with an FN5-7 with sixty rounds and we both carry extra weapons. It is why I have well over a years supply of food and other essentials stored away while a large portion of the population of the city I live in can't feed themselves beyond 24 hours (A snow storm resulted in a line over a mile long to get into a McDonald's) as well as enough ammunition (and the ability to make more) to make a NY Liberal feint.  

Unfortunately, despite my desire to be left alone, what ends up happening is that some carpet bagger comes down here from a Yankee state and tries to vote in all the rules and regulations that they had in the little utopia they left to the net effect of destroying MY desired way of life.  I see the Clinton Criminal Crime Syndicate as being an extension of this big government bullshit and it is quickly getting to the point where "burn the MF'er down" as some of the rioters put it is starting to sound pretty good, especially if we're talking about the liberal strong holds.

Now, I am NOT a Republican.  In fact, I despise them and in many ways more than I despise the Democrats.  Unfortunately, "Pissed Off" isn't a registration option either. I see the problem as the oligarchy comprised of both parties that is selling out the jobs and replacing them with service sector dead ends while laughing all the way to the bank.  I see the QE ponzi scheme bleeding the citizens dry and benefiting those that already have too much.  I am socially very liberal in the things I support ranging from freedom to marry whomever you want (I think government should not have a say in marriage at all), what substances you want to put in your body, that abortion is a personal choice, etc.  I most closely represent the Libertarian ideals but unfortunately freedom and personal responsibility are never options on the ballot - just a choice of a shit sandwich or shit soup both courtesy of big government.  I see the government as illegitimate and I don't give a rats ass if "you voted" - I don't recognize it's authority.  I see government as the problem, not the solution.

So yes, I see civil war coming.  I see an economic collapse coming and I like the ant, preparing for it, unlike all the urban grasshoppers.  So you will just have to excuse me if I chose not to support the queen who failed in their attempt to steal a coronation, but even if she had won you wouldn't see me retreating to my "safe space" with my emotional comfort dog to have a sad before I go out and riot in the streets, because I would have to go to work in the morning.

[Odin]

(11-11-2016, 09:36 AM)Marypoza Wrote:

(11-11-2016, 07:59 AM)Odin Wrote:

(11-11-2016, 01:51 AM)taramarie Wrote: 2. Active listening, labeling and mirroring. This is most of what you will be doing. People have their own ideas of what the term "systemic racism" even means. Let someone explain their views/understanding. Resist the need to label them ("you are ignorant, racist, etc"). That will derail the entire conversation. The individual can't absorb information while trying to defend him/herself. You need to know what they know. Mirror back what they said, so both parties can confirm that you understood their viewpoint correctly. Once they confirm it, you can actually *start* the conversation.

This is the big thing sorely lacking here in the US right now.

-- l put this squarely on  the obots. Anybody who had any honest criticism of Himself &/or his policies was derided as ray-sist, stripping away any real meaning from the word. This has only been stopping in the past yr, with the advent of the TPP,  & the realization  that obummercrap is just that, & a ponzi scheme to benefit insurance companies

Your lack of self-awareness is hilarious.

[Odin]

(11-11-2016, 02:11 PM)taramarie Wrote:

(11-11-2016, 07:51 AM)Odin Wrote:

(11-11-2016, 02:34 AM)taramarie Wrote: An interesting article that breaks down country folk vs urban folk through media and how it applies to the world around us to explain the Trump phenomenon.

How Half Of America Lost Its F**king Mind

I already posted this in another thread.

I am from the exact kind of rural environment this writer is talking about and he is 100% correct. Folks out here are the butt of jokes, we are derided as "dumb, racist gun-toting hicks" by the urban intelligentsia, often with nasty insinuations that we are inbred, too. When we try to complain of our economic troubles all we get are rants about how even caring about poor rural whites is inherently racist.

Bloody heck for real huh? Well, yeah those shoot downs need to stop on both sides and listening on both sides needs to be promoted. I think people will eventually grow tired of hating (i hope) and who knows may listen. That will be one problem if solved that will lead your country into a 1T feel I think. Eliminating at least some of the current building hatred.

I wonder if this is what it felt like before the US Civil War, each half of the country hating the other half's very existence. No desire for rational problem solving, only the desire for cathartic rage.

[Bob Butler 54]

(11-11-2016, 02:03 PM)taramarie Wrote:

(11-11-2016, 06:52 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(11-10-2016, 05:47 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I'm not fighting with Bob. I pointed out to Bob where his partisan views of me were way off again. I associate Bob with a party that regularly engages, encourages, supports and allows the use of anti-white sentiment. The Democrats aren't very smart people. Smart people don't do or allow stupid shit that creates a bigger issue for themselves. Are Democrats capable of pulling their heads out of their asses and using them as intended. We'll see.

I don't see myself as anti-white.  I am white.  I associate with whites.  Remember how during the election Trump pointed out a black guy at one of his rallies?  I can't do this at the moment.  I'm somewhat reclusive, have a small number of close friends and social groups...  Oh.  Wait.  One of the gamers in my Pathfinder RPG circle is black!  I guess I'm at least as integrated as Trump.  I can point at a black person too!  I guess I forgot as her skin pigmentation just doesn't matter to the group at all.  Not a whit.

But I'm not anti-white.  I'm anti-bigot.  It seems to me that many among the Trump deplorables have difficulty distinguishing between the two.  I favor equality, civility, mutual respect, and much else mentioned among Jefferson's self evident truths.  These are core values.  As is typical of humans, I get intense and emotional about defending and advocating my core values.

It is quite possible to dislike racists without disliking whites.  Deplorables might not be able to see this.  Some are so obsessed with the black-white conflict that it becomes us or them at a primal level.

Anyway, in many respects, don't expect Democrats to always be logical and rational.  They have core values that aren't going to shift.  They see the world from a different angle.  They do not see striving for equality, harmony and inclusiveness as stupid.  They are more apt to see it as virtue.  This in the short turn my lead to conflict, but sometimes conflict is appropriate or necessary.

This conflicts unfortunately. They will not listen if you call them names. They do not see it as respectful, civil and showing mutual respect. It is not the right way of going about the issue and it does not show to them you stand by your word that you are civil and show respect. I put a list up here of ways that you can though.

OK, I might have misremembered, but wasn't it Civic who claimed the title 'deplorable' is considered a title of pride among certain groups of people?  Also, 'deplorable' is becoming a code word for 'racist', those who believe white male protestants have a superior place in the world and should be able to harass and insult without hindrance from those promoting political correctness.  Is there a proper politically correct yet descriptive word or phrase for such people that isn't insulting?  Should there be such a word or phrase?  Could you suggest such a word or phrase?

Not all Republicans belong to this class.  One can advocate supply side economics without advocating insulting abusive prejudicial behavior and vice versa.  I disagree with both, but I disagree with supply side in an intellectual way, while the other is a more emotional values driven thing.

[Eric the Green]

But the supply side trickle-down economics and the prejudice are the same thing in many minds, if perhaps not all. One is the dog whistle for the other. The rant goes: less government, fewer taxes, and the benefits will trickle-down from the job creaters. So we don't need the government programs and regulations. I don't need to pay taxes to support these welfare loafers who don't work. The ones who don't work will be out of luck now. And who are the loafers? Mexicans; you know, those rapists and drug dealers coming across the border. Those blacks who don't support the police. Those politically-correct social justice warriors. You know, the ones they used to carry out on a stretcher if they protested. These are not good people; these are not the people we need. Knock the crap out of them; I'll pay for your legal fees. It's all one package.

[Eric the Green]

Shame on people who say that racists should not be called out for what they are, along with their libertarian economics dog whistle. And to blame us for calling them out. Shame shame, and if you are not even from the USA, shame on you; you don't know what the fuck you are talking about.

The Opinion Pages | OP-ED COLUMNIST

America Elects a Bigot
Charles M. Blow
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/10/opinio....html?_r=0

Donald J. Trump is president-elect of the United States. Now there’s a sentence I never thought I’d write.

Against all odds and against all forms of the establishment, he prevailed. He won, legitimately, including in many states that were thought to be safely blue. The pundits and the polls were wrong. There was more pent-up hunger for change — and also racial, ethnic and economic angst — than many models considered.

Mr. Trump will become this country’s 45th president. For me, it is a truly shocking fact, a bitter pill to swallow. I remain convinced that this is one of the worst possible people who could be elected president. I remain convinced that Trump has a fundamentally flawed character and is literally dangerous for world stability and injurious to America’s standing in that world.

There is so much that I can’t fully comprehend.

It is hard to know specifically how to position yourself in a country that can elect a man with such staggering ineptitude and open animus. It makes you doubt whatever faith you had in the country itself.

Also, let me be clear: Businessman Donald Trump was a bigot. Candidate Donald Trump was a bigot. Republican nominee Donald Trump was a bigot. And I can only assume that President Donald Trump will be a bigot.

It is absolutely possible that America didn’t elect him in spite of that, but because of it. Consider that for a second. Think about what that means. This is America right now: throwing its lot in with a man who named an alt-right sympathizer as his campaign chief.

How can I make sense of the fact that the president appeared in pornos?

How can I make sense of the fact that the man who will appoint the next attorney general has himself boasted of assaulting women? What will this president’s vaunted “law and order” program for “inner cities” look like in an age where minority communities are already leery of police aggression?

How do I make sense of the fact that a man who attacked a federal judge for his “Mexican heritage” will be the man who will nominate the next Supreme Court justice and scores of federal judges?

I can’t make it make sense because it doesn’t. I must sit with the absurdity of it.

I must settle this in myself in this way: I respect the presidency; I do not respect this president-elect. I cannot. Count me among the resistance.

I hope that there are areas where people in Washington can agree to actually advance America’s interests, but I’m doubtful. Trump has made multiple campaign promises, promises he will be obliged to keep, that would specifically do harm.

My thoughts are now with the immigrant families he has threatened to deport and the Muslims he has threatened to bar and the women he has demeaned and those he is accused of assaulting and the disabled whom he apparently has no problem mocking.

My thoughts are with the poor people afflicted by ill health who were finally able to receive medical insurance coverage, sometimes lifesaving coverage, and the fear they must feel now that there is a president committed to repealing and replacing it (with what, I don’t know), and who has a pliable Congress at his disposal.

When I think of all these people and then think of all the people who voted to make this man president — and those who didn’t vote, thereby easing the way for his ascension — I cannot help but feel some measure of anger. I must deal with that anger. I don’t want to wrestle it to the ground; I want to harness it.

I have spent much of my life and definitely much of my time writing this column championing the causes of vulnerable populations. That work only becomes more important now. Trump represents a clear and very present danger, and it is in the face of that danger that courage and truth are made more necessary and more perfect.

I strongly support and defend the peaceful transfer of power in this country and applaud the current administration for doing what is right and normal in America, what every prior departing administration has done: to make sure the transfer of power is as smooth as possible.

We need a Trump presidency to succeed to some degree — at least to have it do as little harm to the republic as possible — in order for America to remain safe, steady and strong during his tenure.

That doesn’t mean that I don’t believe Trump to be an abomination, but rather that I honor one of the hallmarks of our democracy and that I am an American interested in protecting America.

That said, it is impossible for me to fall in line behind an unrepentant bigot. It will be impossible for me to view this man participating in the pageantry and protocols of the presidency and not be reminded of how he is a demonstrated demagogue who is also a sexist, a racist, a xenophobe and a bully.

That is not a person worthy of applause. That is a person who must be placed under unrelenting pressure. Power must be challenged, constantly. That begins today.

[Warren Dew]

(11-11-2016, 03:30 PM)noway2 Wrote:

(11-11-2016, 02:14 PM)taramarie Wrote: Different people see them in different ways. It sounds like typically urban folk are more than likely to see rural folk as fools if we are to go on Odin's personal experience.

For some time now, I have been coming to the conclusion that the fracture line that is growing in this country is largely urban versus rural, or it can generally be categorized into one with a high degree of correlation.  As I can only really speak for myself, I will present my view on this.  I currently live in and own a home in a city but I also own a sizable tract of rural  (actually it is planned as less than rural and classified as agricultural) property that i plan to move to.  Consequently, I believe that i have an understanding of both the rural and urban perspectives to some degree, though I lean towards the rural.

The hands down, number one reason I want to move out to the rural environment is to be left the hell alone.  I do not want people who live on a postage stamp passing rules and trying to stipulate regulations on what I do with my land.  I want to raise a large portion of my own food including vegetables and animals.  I want to be largely self sufficient.  I accept responsibility for myself and I don't want government hand outs. I am tired of being taxed to death because some urban population center holds a vote and then holds their hand out. 

While I understand the systemic problems, including things like lack of affordable healthcare coverage, dwindling prospects for the "American dream", bleak retirement outlooks, etc, I do not accept the answer as being government forced wealth redistribution.  I didn't get a government hand out on my student loan.  I do not get a government subsidy on my housing.  I do not get a government break on my health care.  I have to work for those things and pay for them.  Similarly, I don't want a bunch of illegal immigrants coming to my country and leaching off the system by claiming a bazillion dependents on a fake SSN to avoid paying taxes and using the emergency room for their medical care at my expense.  Along those same lines my ancestors were not responsible for slavery and I don't owe the blacks one damned dime and see instead a group that needs to pull their pants up, learn to speak proper English and get a damned job instead of blocking the highway because they're pissed off.  I see these BLM riots and it looks like nothing but a bunch of animals that need to be put down and it is why when I left the house today I made sure my spouse had a Glock with several extra magazines and I left with an FN5-7 with sixty rounds and we both carry extra weapons. It is why I have well over a years supply of food and other essentials stored away while a large portion of the population of the city I live in can't feed themselves beyond 24 hours (A snow storm resulted in a line over a mile long to get into a McDonald's) as well as enough ammunition (and the ability to make more) to make a NY Liberal feint.  

Unfortunately, despite my desire to be left alone, what ends up happening is that some carpet bagger comes down here from a Yankee state and tries to vote in all the rules and regulations that they had in the little utopia they left to the net effect of destroying MY desired way of life.  I see the Clinton Criminal Crime Syndicate as being an extension of this big government bullshit and it is quickly getting to the point where "burn the MF'er down" as some of the rioters put it is starting to sound pretty good, especially if we're talking about the liberal strong holds.

Now, I am NOT a Republican.  In fact, I despise them and in many ways more than I despise the Democrats.  Unfortunately, "Pissed Off" isn't a registration option either. I see the problem as the oligarchy comprised of both parties that is selling out the jobs and replacing them with service sector dead ends while laughing all the way to the bank.  I see the QE ponzi scheme bleeding the citizens dry and benefiting those that already have too much.  I am socially very liberal in the things I support ranging from freedom to marry whomever you want (I think government should not have a say in marriage at all), what substances you want to put in your body, that abortion is a personal choice, etc.  I most closely represent the Libertarian ideals but unfortunately freedom and personal responsibility are never options on the ballot - just a choice of a shit sandwich or shit soup both courtesy of big government.  I see the government as illegitimate and I don't give a rats ass if "you voted" - I don't recognize it's authority.  I see government as the problem, not the solution.

So yes, I see civil war coming.  I see an economic collapse coming and I like the ant, preparing for it, unlike all the urban grasshoppers.  So you will just have to excuse me if I chose not to support the queen who failed in their attempt to steal a coronation, but even if she had won you wouldn't see me retreating to my "safe space" with my emotional comfort dog to have a sad before I go out and riot in the streets, because I would have to go to work in the morning.

I sympathize with everything you say.

Please consider starting to vote in Republican primaries, changing your registration if necessary.  Certainly the current Republican establishment is far from libertarian, as is Trump, but there are many rising Republicans who have a basically libertarian philosophy.  They are going to need help in a period of Trump ascendancy.

[Eric the Green]

(11-11-2016, 03:30 PM)noway2 Wrote: For some time now, I have been coming to the conclusion that the fracture line that is growing in this country is largely urban versus rural, or it can generally be categorized into one with a high degree of correlation.  As I can only really speak for myself, I will present my view on this.  I currently live in and own a home in a city but I also own a sizable tract of rural  (actually it is planned as less than rural and classified as agricultural) property that i plan to move to.  Consequently, I believe that i have an understanding of both the rural and urban perspectives to some degree, though I lean towards the rural.

The hands down, number one reason I want to move out to the rural environment is to be left the hell alone.  I do not want people who live on a postage stamp passing rules and trying to stipulate regulations on what I do with my land.  I want to raise a large portion of my own food including vegetables and animals.  I want to be largely self sufficient.  I accept responsibility for myself and I don't want government hand outs. I am tired of being taxed to death because some urban population center holds a vote and then holds their hand out. 

Isn't it interesting that in fact it is the rural red states who get the most money back from federal taxes, and the urban blue states who pay the most. As playwrite pointed out, that's because the red state approach that you favor (trickle-down libertarian anti-taxes), does not work for the people there, and so they are far less wealthy and need more help. That's the fact as many stats posted on the old forum proved. I don't want to call you anything, but it's a fact that most people in those urban population centers who vote and hold their hands out, are people of color. And you don't want to be forced to pay to help them. I understand that. But in fact most of your taxes don't go to help them. They may go to entitlements that you pay for, for sure. And to our enormous military that Trump wants to "rebuild."

Quote:While I understand the systemic problems, including things like lack of affordable healthcare coverage, dwindling prospects for the "American dream", bleak retirement outlooks, etc, I do not accept the answer as being government forced wealth redistribution.  I didn't get a government hand out on my student loan.  I do not get a government subsidy on my housing.  I do not get a government break on my health care.  I have to work for those things and pay for them.  Similarly, I don't want a bunch of illegal immigrants coming to my country and leaching off the system by claiming a bazillion dependents on a fake SSN to avoid paying taxes and using the emergency room for their medical care at my expense.  Along those same lines my ancestors were not responsible for slavery and I don't owe the blacks one damned dime and see instead a group that needs to pull their pants up, learn to speak proper English and get a damned job instead of blocking the highway because they're pissed off.  I see these BLM riots and it looks like nothing but a bunch of animals that need to be put down and it is why when I left the house today I made sure my spouse had a Glock with several extra magazines and I left with an FN5-7 with sixty rounds and we both carry extra weapons. It is why I have well over a years supply of food and other essentials stored away while a large portion of the population of the city I live in can't feed themselves beyond 24 hours (A snow storm resulted in a line over a mile long to get into a McDonald's) as well as enough ammunition (and the ability to make more) to make a NY Liberal feint.  

Unfortunately, despite my desire to be left alone, what ends up happening is that some carpet bagger comes down here from a Yankee state and tries to vote in all the rules and regulations that they had in the little utopia they left to the net effect of destroying MY desired way of life.  I see the Clinton Criminal Crime Syndicate as being an extension of this big government bullshit and it is quickly getting to the point where "burn the MF'er down" as some of the rioters put it is starting to sound pretty good, especially if we're talking about the liberal strong holds.

I understand you don't think forced wealth distribution is the answer. But before we had forced wealth redistribution of the high income from CEOs who don't work, we had poverty, and most people could not live comfortably or without fear of poverty and death and had no hope. In the 20th century the people gained some power over the robber barons who had it all. Thank God we had a 20th century. Libertarian politics has the purpose of giving everything back to the robber barons, on the theory that this is government forced income distribution. And you guys always say, well "I didn't get a hand out." You have no conception that you might need one someday. That you have no power over this oligarchy and what it does to the people. And I see that you have indeed connected your libertarian economics with resentment of blacks and immigrants. You have demonstrated that Galen is wrong, as he always is. And that anyone who listens to him or discusses things with him as if he has something worthwhile to say, is just as wrong. You see, when people say "racist" about some folks, it has some truth to it. You just want to resent being called that, instead of looking at the man in the mirror and perhaps wondering if we don't all have some racism in us that keeps us apart and resenting each other. And you want lots of guns to "protect yourself" from unarmed black young people who get shot down for no reason in a nation where we have racist, fascist police who don't respect the right to life. Amazing. Sorry, deplorable is the only word to describe your views on this. Sickness in America that has reached truly epic proportions. Beyond anything we thought about when we used that term for America in the sixties. Truly, on life support.

Quote:Now, I am NOT a Republican.  In fact, I despise them and in many ways more than I despise the Democrats.  Unfortunately, "Pissed Off" isn't a registration option either. I see the problem as the oligarchy comprised of both parties that is selling out the jobs and replacing them with service sector dead ends while laughing all the way to the bank.  I see the QE ponzi scheme bleeding the citizens dry and benefiting those that already have too much.  I am socially very liberal in the things I support ranging from freedom to marry whomever you want (I think government should not have a say in marriage at all), what substances you want to put in your body, that abortion is a personal choice, etc.  I most closely represent the Libertarian ideals but unfortunately freedom and personal responsibility are never options on the ballot - just a choice of a shit sandwich or shit soup both courtesy of big government.  I see the government as illegitimate and I don't give a rats ass if "you voted" - I don't recognize it's authority.  I see government as the problem, not the solution.

You are completely wrong, and you have been deceived and brainwashed. The Republicans are the party that supports oligarchy in their every word and deed, not the Democrats who try to help the common people. Your ideal of no government shows how little you know or care about history. Libertarians are part of the pall that has been destroying this country since 1980. And you are succeeding beyond my wildest fears. Your new president is just another of your stooges.

Quote:So yes, I see civil war coming.  I see an economic collapse coming and I like the ant, preparing for it, unlike all the urban grasshoppers.  So you will just have to excuse me if I chose not to support the queen who failed in their attempt to steal a coronation, but even if she had won you wouldn't see me retreating to my "safe space" with my emotional comfort dog to have a sad before I go out and riot in the streets, because I would have to go to work in the morning.

Activists will need to get out and fight, and if necessary get jailed or shot. And of course you will blame them and fear them, and arm yourself against THEM, instead of the criminal government led and owned by the oligarchy that shot them.

[Eric the Green]

Literally. Sheriff Clark is in charge, it appears.
http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/11/...view-story

One of the people being prominently floated as Trump's potential head of Homeland Security is Milwaukee County Sheriff David Clarke, a prominent pro-Trump voice at the Republican convention and, as you will soon see, quite the self-promoter himself. Here's the reaction of our new potential Homeland Security chief to protests held across the nation last night over the results of Tuesday's election.

David A. Clarke, Jr. ✔ @SheriffClarke
These temper tantrums from these radical anarchists must be quelled. There is no legitimate reason to protest the will of the people.

This is the way to civil war.

[Eric the Green]

Do you know what Trump means by investing in infrastructure?

He doesn’t mean the US government will spend money on maintenance work. I can’t blame anyone for thinking this though as it has been the norm… up until now.

What Trump means is something very different indeed. He means selling off infrastructure to private companies like Trump Enterprises so that “business moguls” like himself can personally invest in infrastructure — by buying it out from under the American people who now own it, and then charging everyone tolls to use it.

And you can be sure Trump will be first in line to buy and will get a whopping presidential discount too.

http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/11/...ally-Means

Just what you want, Warren, noway; or excuse as anti-paternalist, Odin? I didn't get any hand outs. Why should I pay taxes so people can go over bridges without paying tolls!

[Eric the Green]

WASHINGTON — President-elect Donald J. Trump, who campaigned against the corrupt power of special interests, is filling his transition team with some of the very sort of people who he has complained have too much clout in Washington: corporate consultants and lobbyists.

Jeffrey Eisenach, a consultant who has worked for years on behalf of Verizon and other telecommunications clients, is the head of the team that is helping to pick staff members at the Federal Communications Commission.

Michael Catanzaro, a lobbyist whose clients include Devon Energy and Encana Oil and Gas, holds the “energy independence” portfolio.

Michael Torrey, a lobbyist who runs a firm that has earned millions of dollars helping food industry players such as the American Beverage Association and the dairy giant Dean Foods, is helping set up the new team at the Department of Agriculture.

Mr. Trump was swept to power in large part by white working-class voters who responded to his vow to restore the voices of forgotten people, ones drowned out by big business and Wall Street. But in his transition to power, some of the most prominent voices will be those of advisers who come from the same industries for which they are being asked to help set the regulatory groundwork.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/t...ar-AAk9Rg3

Anti establishment my fucking ass!

[Warren Dew]

I hope dailykos is right. Obama's focus on direct government spending on infrastructure - which these days is highly capital intensive, unlike in the 1950s - is one of the things that kept the recession going for so long.

[Eric the Green]

Welcome to the Hell you voted for, white working class voters.

http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/50...y-platform

ELECTION 2016
50 Shockingly Extreme Right-Wing Proposals in the 2016 Republican Party Platform
What Trump, a GOP Congress and GOP-appointed Supreme Court would do to America.
By Steven Rosenfeld / AlterNet July 18, 2016

Print
512 COMMENTS

Photo Credit: http://www.donaldjtrump.com

The Republican Party platform is a wish list for what Republicans in Congress and Donald Trump would like to impose on America. What’s surprising is that it goes further to the right than what’s even been heard on the campaign trail from Trump as he has promised to build a wall along the Mexican border and embrace the religious right’s long-held tenets opposing abortion, LGBT rights and more.

The GOP 2016 platform would make Christianity the official American religion, English the official American language, replace sex education with abstinence-only advice for teenagers, privatize almost all areas of federal services, cut taxes and regulations for the rich and titans of industry, and impose a belligerent foreign policy and military build-up.

Here are 50 excerpts from the 2016 GOP platform.

1. Tax cuts for the rich: "Wherever tax rates penalize thrift or discourage investment, they must be lowered. Wherever current provisions of the code are disincentives for economic growth, they must be changed… We propose to level the international playing field by lowering the corporate tax rate to be on a par with, or below, the rates of other industrial nations."

2. Deregulate the banks: "The Republican vision for American banking calls for establishing transparent, efficient markets where consumers can obtain loans they need at reasonable rates based on market conditions. Unfortunately, in response to the financial institutions crisis of 2008-2009, the Democratic-controlled Congress enacted the Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act, otherwise known as Dodd-Frank."

3. Stop consumer protection: "The worst of Dodd-Frank is the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, deliberately designed to be a rogue agency. It answers to neither Congress nor the executive, has its own guaranteed funding outside the appropriations process… If the Bureau is not abolished, it should be subjected to congressional appropriation."

4. Start repealing environmental laws: "We call for a comprehensive review of federal regulations, especially those dealing with the environment, that make it harder and more costly for Americans to rent, buy, or sell homes."

5. Start shrinking unions and union labor: "We renew our call for repeal of the Davis-Bacon law, which limits employment and drives up construction and maintenance costs for the benefit of unions… Although unionization has never been permitted in any government agency concerned with national security, the current Administration has reversed that policy for the Transportation Security Administration. We will correct that mistake… We support the right of states to enact Right-to-Work laws and call for a national law to protect the economic liberty of the modern workforce."

6. Privatize federal railway service: "Amtrak is an extremely expensive railroad for the American taxpayers, who must subsidize every ticket. The federal government should allow private ventures to provide passenger service in the northeast corridor. The same holds true with regard to high-speed and intercity rail across the country. We reaffirm our intention to end federal support for boondoggles like California’s high-speed train to nowhere."

7. No change in federal minimum wage: "Minimum wage is an issue that should be handled at the state and local level."

8. Cut government salaries and benefits: "The taxpayers spend an average of $35,000 a year per employee on non-cash benefits, triple the average non-cash compensation of the average worker in the private sector. Federal employees receive extraordinary pension benefits and vacation time wildly out of line with those of the private sector."

9. Appoint anti-choice Supreme Court justices: "Only a Republican president will appoint judges who respect the rule of law expressed within the Constitution and Declaration of Independence, including the inalienable right to life and the laws of nature and nature’s God, as did the late Justice Antonin Scalia."

10. Appoint anti-LGBT and anti-Obamacare justices: "Only such appointments will enable courts to begin to reverse the long line of activist decisions — including Roe, Obergefell, and the Obamacare cases — that have usurped Congress’s and states’ lawmaking authority."

11. Legalize anti-LGBT discrimination: "We endorse the First Amendment Defense Act, Republican legislation in the House and Senate which will bar government discrimination against individuals and businesses for acting on the belief that marriage is the union of one man and one woman."

12. Make Christianity a national religion: "We support the public display of the Ten Commandments as a reflection of our history and our country’s Judeo-Christian heritage and further affirm the rights of religious students to engage in voluntary prayer at public school events and to have equal access to school facilities."

13. Loosen campaign finance loopholes and dark money: "Freedom of speech includes the right to devote resources to whatever cause or candidate one supports. We oppose any restrictions or conditions that would discourage citizens from participating in the public square or limit their ability to promote their ideas, such as requiring private organizations to publicly disclose their donors to the government."

14. Loosen gun controls nationwide: "We support firearm reciprocity legislation to recognize the right of law-abiding Americans to carry firearms to protect themselves and their families in all 50 states. We support constitutional carry statutes and salute the states that have passed them. We oppose ill-conceived laws that would restrict magazine capacity or ban the sale of the most popular and common modern rifle."

15. Pass an anti-choice constitutional amendment: "We assert the sanctity of human life and affirm that the unborn child has a fundamental right to life which cannot be infringed. We support a human life amendment to the Constitution and legislation to make clear that the Fourteenth Amendment’s protections apply to children before birth."

16. End federal funding for Planned Parenthood: "We oppose the use of public funds to perform or promote abortion or to fund organizations, like Planned Parenthood, so long as they provide or refer for elective abortions or sell fetal body parts rather than provide healthcare."

17. Allow states to shut down abortion Clinics: "We condemn the Supreme Court’s activist decision in Whole Woman’s Health v. Hellerstedt striking down commonsense Texas laws providing for basic health and safety standards in abortion clinics."

18. Oppose stem cell scientific research: "We oppose embryonic stem cell research. We oppose federal funding of embryonic stem cell research. We support adult stem cell research and urge the restoration of the national placental stem cell bank created by President George H.W. Bush but abolished by his Democrat successor, President Bill Clinton. We oppose federal funding for harvesting embryos and call for a ban on human cloning."

19. Oppose executive branch policy making: "We condemn the current Administration’s unconstitutional expansion into areas beyond those specifically enumerated, including bullying of state and local governments in matters ranging from voter identification (ID) laws to immigration, from healthcare programs to land use decisions, and from forced education curricula to school restroom policies."

20. Oppose efforts to end the electoral college: "We oppose the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact and any other scheme to abolish or distort the procedures of the Electoral College."

21. Require citizenship documents to register to vote: "We support legislation to require proof of citizenship when registering to vote and secure photo ID when voting. We strongly oppose litigation against states exercising their sovereign authority to enact such laws."

22. Ignore undocumented immigrants when drawing congressional districts: "In order to preserve the principle of one person, one vote, we urge our elected representatives to ensure that citizenship, rather than mere residency, be made the basis for the apportionment of representatives among the states."


23. No labeling of GMO ingredients in food products: "The intrusive and expensive federal mandates on food options and menu labeling should be ended as soon as possible by a Republican Congress. We oppose the mandatory labeling of genetically modified food, which has proven to be safe, healthy, and a literal life-saver for millions in the developing world."

24. Add work requirements to welfare and cut food stamps: Nearly all the work requirements for able-bodied adults, instituted by our landmark welfare reform of 1996, have been removed. We will restore those provisions and, to correct a mistake made when the Food Stamp program was first created in 1964, separate the administration of SNAP [Supplemental Nutrition Assistance program] from the Department of Agriculture.

25. Open America’s shores to more oil and gas drilling: "We support the opening of public lands and the outer continental shelf to exploration and responsible production, even if these resources will not be immediately developed."

26. Build the Keystone XL Pipeline: "The Keystone Pipeline has become a symbol of everything wrong with the current Administration’s ideological approach. After years of delay, the President killed it to satisfy environmental extremists. We intend to finish that pipeline and others as part of our commitment to North American energy security."

27. Expand fracking and burying nuclear waste: "A federal judge has struck down the BLM’s rule on hydraulic fracturing and we support upholding this decision. We respect the states’ proven ability to regulate the use of hydraulic fracturing, methane emissions, and horizontal drilling, and we will end the Administration’s disregard of the Nuclear Waste Policy Act with respect to the long-term storage of nuclear waste."

28. No tax on carbon products: "We oppose any carbon tax… We urge the private sector to focus its resources on the development of carbon capture and sequestration technology still in its early stages here and overseas. "

29. Ignore global climate change agreements: "The United Nations’ Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change is a political mechanism, not an unbiased scientific institution. Its unreliability is reflected in its intolerance toward scientists and others who dissent from its orthodoxy. We will evaluate its recommendations accordingly. We reject the agendas of both the Kyoto Protocol and the Paris Agreement, which represent only the personal commitments of their signatories; no such agreement can be binding upon the United States until it is submitted to and ratified by the Senate."

30. Privatize Medicare, the health plan for seniors: "Impose no changes for persons 55 or older. Give others the option of traditional Medicare or transition to a premium-support model designed to strengthen patient choice, promote cost-saving competition among providers."

31. Turn Medicaid, the poor’s health plan, over to states: "Moving to a block grant approach would allow for state and local governments to create solutions for individuals and families in desperate need of help in addressing mental illness. We respect the states’ authority and flexibility to exclude abortion providers from federal programs such as Medicaid and other healthcare and family planning programs so long as they continue to perform or refer for elective abortions."

32. No increasing Social Security benefits by taxing the rich: "As Republicans, we oppose tax increases and believe in the power of markets to create wealth and to help secure the future of our Social Security system."


33. Repeal Obamacare: "Any honest agenda for improving healthcare must start with repeal of the dishonestly named Affordable Care Act of 2010: Obamacare."

34. Give internet service providers monopoly control: "The President ordered the chair of the supposedly independent Federal Communications Commission to impose upon the internet rules devised in the 1930s for the telephone monopoly… The internet’s free market needs to be free and open to all ideas and competition without the government or service providers picking winners and losers."

35. Make English the official U.S. language: "We both encourage the preservation of heritage tongues and support English as the nation’s official language, a unifying force essential for the advancement of immigrant communities and our nation as a whole."

36. No amnesty for undocumented immigrants: "Illegal immigration endangers everyone, exploits the taxpayers, and insults all who aspire to enter America legally. We oppose any form of amnesty for those who, by breaking the law, have disadvantaged those who have obeyed it."

37. Build a border wall to keep immigrants out: "Our highest priority, therefore, must be to secure our borders and all ports of entry and to enforce our immigration laws. That is why we support building a wall along our southern border and protecting all ports of entry. The border wall must cover the entirety of the southern border and must be sufficient to stop both vehicular and pedestrian traffic."

38. Require government verification of citizenship of all workers: "Use of the E-verify program — an internet-based system that verifies the employment authorization and identity of employees — must be made mandatory nationwide. We reaffirm our endorsement of the SAVE program — Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements — to ensure that public funds are not given to persons not legally present in this country."

39. Penalize cities that give sanctuary to migrants: "Because 'sanctuary cities' violate federal law and endanger their own citizens, they should not be eligible for federal funding. Using state licenses to reward people in the country illegally is an affront to the rule of law and must be halted."

40. Puerto Rico should be a state but not Washington DC: "We support the right of the United States citizens of Puerto Rico to be admitted to the Union as a fully sovereign state… A [D.C.} statehood amendment was soundly rejected by the states when last proposed in 1976 and should not be revived."

41. Support traditional marriage but no other families: "Children raised in a two-parent household tend to be physically and emotionally healthier, more likely to do well in school, less likely to use drugs and alcohol, engage in crime or become pregnant outside of marriage. We oppose policies and laws that create a financial incentive for or encourage cohabitation."

42. Privatize government services in the name of fighting poverty: "We call for removal of structural impediments which progressives throw in the path of poor people: Over-regulation of start-up enterprises, excessive licensing requirements, needless restrictions on formation of schools and day-care centers serving neighborhood families, and restrictions on providing public services in fields like transport and sanitation."

43. Require bible study in public schools: "A good understanding of the Bible being indispensable for the development of an educated citizenry, we encourage state legislatures to offer the Bible in a literature curriculum as an elective in America’s high schools."

44. Replace traditional public schools with privatized options: "We support options for learning, including home-schooling, career and technical education, private or parochial schools, magnet schools, charter schools, online learning, and early-college high schools."

45. Replace sex education with abstinence-only approaches: "We renew our call for replacing “family planning” programs for teens with sexual risk avoidance education that sets abstinence until marriage as the responsible and respected standard of behavior. That approach — the only one always effective against premarital pregnancy and sexually-transmitted disease — empowers teens to achieve optimal health outcomes. We oppose school-based clinics that provide referral or counseling for abortion and contraception and believe that federal funds should not be used in mandatory or universal mental health, psychiatric, or socio-emotional screening programs."

46. Privatize student loans instead of lowering interest rates: "The federal government should not be in the business of originating student loans. In order to bring down college costs and give students access to a multitude of financing options, private sector participation in student financing should be restored."

47. Restore the death penalty: "The constitutionality of the death penalty is firmly settled by its explicit mention in the Fifth Amendment. With the murder rate soaring in our great cities, we condemn the Supreme Court’s erosion of the right of the people to enact capital punishment in their states."

48. Dramatically increase Pentagon budget: "Quite simply, the Republican Party is committed to rebuilding the U.S. military into the strongest on earth, with vast superiority over any other nation or group of nations in the world."

49. Cancel Iran nuclear treaty and expand nuclear arsenal: "We should abandon arms control treaties that benefit our adversaries without improving our national security. We must fund, develop, and deploy a multi-layered missile defense system. We must modernize nuclear weapons and their delivery platforms."

50. Reaffirm support for Israel and slam sanctions movement: "We reaffirm America’s commitment to Israel’s security and will ensure that Israel maintains a qualitative military edge over any and all adversaries… We reject the false notion that Israel is an occupier and specifically recognize that the Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions Movement (BDS) is anti-Semitic in nature and seeks to destroy Israel. Therefore, we call for effective legislation to thwart actions that are intended to limit commercial relations with Israel, or persons or entities doing business in Israel or in Israeli-controlled territories, in a discriminatory manner."

Steven Rosenfeld covers national political issues for AlterNet, including America's retirement crisis, democracy and voting rights, and campaigns and elections. He is the author of "Count My Vote: A Citizen's Guide to Voting" (AlterNet Books, 2008).

[Eric the Green]

(11-11-2016, 06:36 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: I hope dailykos is right.  Obama's focus on direct government spending on infrastructure - which these days is highly capital intensive, unlike in the 1950s - is one of the things that kept the recession going for so long.

Nope. It's the only thing that got us out of the recession. Cuts to government spending by Republicans was the only thing that kept the recession going so long.

What the electoral-vote majority that now rules Amerikkka says, is always the exact opposite of the truth.

[Eric the Green]

I guess we'll have to keep this thread going as long as permitted, with less and less if any humor. Welcome to Trumpland, ruled and guided by our Bigot in Chief.

https://twitter.com/i/moments/796417517157830656

[Eric the Green]

Trump goes after immigrants, government workers, the environment, and gay couples — that's day one

By Mark Sumner
Thursday Nov 10, 2016 · 7:40 AM PST
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/11/10...-s-day-one

Rolling back every inch of progress in the last eight years? Not enough. Backed by a Republican Senate and Republican House, Trump is anxious to get more ambitious.

With complete GOP control of the executive and legislative branches, top Republican policy experts see a chance for enacting a sweeping conservative agenda, from tougher immigration laws to tax reform to a repeal of Obamacare, and they want to jump on the bandwagon.

The whole idea of the Republican #NeverTrump movement, or that “true conservatives” would distance themselves from Trump’s … whatever-will-rile-the-crowd-ism, has vanished with the morning sun. The Trump transition team is simply swimming in Republicans eager to join. The winning for Team Trump is just beginning.

Even when the Trump team contemplated victory, they thought they’d be facing a Democratic Senate.

They built a tentative war plan around the premise that Democrats would control the Senate and that a Trump White House would be locked in daily battles with the likes of Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.).
But now that the field is clear, they plan to run, run, run and keep running over every Democratic legislative victory back to FDR. Trump plans to start on day one by sending refugees back into danger, destroying Obama’s legacy, and of course … that wall.

Things that Trump has said he would do on day one ...

Laying out the aims of his administration, Trump said he will “repeal and replace ‘Obamacare,’” “immediately suspend the admission of Syrian refugees,” “order a review of every single regulation issued over the last eight years,” “begin lifting all regulations that are hurting our workers and our businesses,” “terminate every single unconstitutional executive order signed by President Obama,” “restore the rule of law to our land,” “begin implementing plans for construction of a wall along our southern border” and “get rid of” international gangs of thugs and drug cartels — all on his first day.
If Trump was really going to stop at “unconstitutional executive orders,” he’d be done already, because the relatively few orders Obama has issued are not unconstitutional. But that’s obviously not what Trump means.

Obama has used these orders to forestall deportation of the minor children of illegal immigrants; mandate wage increases for government contractors, institute rules regulating greenhouse emissions from power plants, and apply the Family Medical Leave Act to same-sex couples.

Deportations of children will resume. Wages will go down. CO2 will go up. And gay couples will lose their medical leave. That’s all on day one.

President Obama used executive orders where he could to get around a do-nothing Congress, and the nation has benefited from his actions. But there’s no doubt they can be, and will be, undone in an instant.

“During the first 100 days, the presidency will likely become a vehicle for moving the Republican agenda forward,” Mr. Craig said. “Nothing with Obama’s name on it is safe. It will be: ‘Let’s pull out the list of Obama’s sacred cows and slaughter them, one by one.’ ”

One of those “cows” will certainly be the Affordable Care Act. Republicans can certainly be ready on day one with a bill that destroys the ACA and which substitutes the meaningless “allow insurance across state lines.” The secret? There’s no federal law to stop insurance companies from crossing state lines now. It’s just a talking point. For the short term, millions of Americans will simply be without health care and millions more will face an explosion in costs.

Longer term, the Republican “replacement” is likely to be a voucher system, like the one proposed in the Ryan Plan. This also matches Trump’s promised model for the VA.

Don’t expect either of these plans to stop with Obamacare. Ryan’s plan called for Americans born after 1957 to never see Medicare, and the existing program to be destroyed by 2022. What the Republicans put forward will likely be an Obamacare, Medicare, Medicaid replacement, all in the vague form of “a voucher system.”

In theory, international treaties like the Iran deal and the Paris climate accords are harder for Trump to “tear up,” as he’s threatened to do, on day one. In practice, he can just as easily ignore them. Trump will support ramping up sanctions against Iran, throwing that agreement into chaos, and remove any limit on greenhouse gases, making the Paris accords moot. US bad faith is likely to then end with both agreements in tatters, even if there’s never an official withdrawal.

Reopening negotiations could also prompt Iran to restart its uranium centrifuges, putting the country back on a path to a nuclear weapon.

Safety and environmental regulations are an easy day one goal. The total dissolution of the EPA, OSHA, MSHA, and BLM will take a little longer. Expect public lands and public resources to be given away in massive blocks. And while the Republicans are destroying institutions, expect the Department of Education to go. Along with support for public libraries, which are singled out in the Ryan Plan. Who needs a library when you can always check Breitbart?

But the number one goal of the Trump administration and the Republicans in Congress will be the same as it always is—taxes.

The centerpiece of Mr. Trump’s plans is a major overhaul of the federal tax code. Mr. Trump has proposed a sharp reduction in the taxation of businesses and a series of changes that would reduce income taxes for most American households. The wealthiest households would see by far the largest reductions in taxes.

The nonpartisan Tax Policy Center estimated that Mr. Trump’s plan would cut federal revenues by $6.2 trillion over the next decade — a significantly larger reduction than the last major round of cuts under President George W. Bush in 2001 and 2003.
Corporations that are already the wealthiest and most profitable in history, are about to get a windfall. Billionaires and millionaires are about to see their taxes vastly reduced, and their wealth sheltered so it can be passed on without limit. Junior and Ivanka and the other one can rest knowing that the money will come their way without diminution.

Everyone else can expect the bill.

[Eric the Green]

What can the Democrats do?

https://newrepublic.com/article/138646/c...nald-trump

[Bob Butler 54]

(11-11-2016, 04:54 PM)taramarie Wrote:

(11-11-2016, 04:40 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(11-11-2016, 02:03 PM)taramarie Wrote:

(11-11-2016, 06:52 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(11-10-2016, 05:47 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I'm not fighting with Bob. I pointed out to Bob where his partisan views of me were way off again. I associate Bob with a party that regularly engages, encourages, supports and allows the use of anti-white sentiment. The Democrats aren't very smart people. Smart people don't do or allow stupid shit that creates a bigger issue for themselves. Are Democrats capable of pulling their heads out of their asses and using them as intended. We'll see.

I don't see myself as anti-white.  I am white.  I associate with whites.  Remember how during the election Trump pointed out a black guy at one of his rallies?  I can't do this at the moment.  I'm somewhat reclusive, have a small number of close friends and social groups...  Oh.  Wait.  One of the gamers in my Pathfinder RPG circle is black!  I guess I'm at least as integrated as Trump.  I can point at a black person too!  I guess I forgot as her skin pigmentation just doesn't matter to the group at all.  Not a whit.

But I'm not anti-white.  I'm anti-bigot.  It seems to me that many among the Trump deplorables have difficulty distinguishing between the two.  I favor equality, civility, mutual respect, and much else mentioned among Jefferson's self evident truths.  These are core values.  As is typical of humans, I get intense and emotional about defending and advocating my core values.

It is quite possible to dislike racists without disliking whites.  Deplorables might not be able to see this.  Some are so obsessed with the black-white conflict that it becomes us or them at a primal level.

Anyway, in many respects, don't expect Democrats to always be logical and rational.  They have core values that aren't going to shift.  They see the world from a different angle.  They do not see striving for equality, harmony and inclusiveness as stupid.  They are more apt to see it as virtue.  This in the short turn my lead to conflict, but sometimes conflict is appropriate or necessary.

This conflicts unfortunately. They will not listen if you call them names. They do not see it as respectful, civil and showing mutual respect. It is not the right way of going about the issue and it does not show to them you stand by your word that you are civil and show respect. I put a list up here of ways that you can though.

OK, I might have misremembered, but wasn't it Civic who claimed the title 'deplorable' is considered a title of pride among certain groups of people?  Also, 'deplorable' is becoming a code word for 'racist', those who believe white male protestants have a superior place in the world and should be able to harass and insult without hindrance from those promoting political correctness.  Is there a proper politically correct yet descriptive word or phrase for such people that isn't insulting?  Should there be such a word or phrase?  Could you suggest such a word or phrase?

Not all Republicans belong to this class.  One can advocate supply side economics without advocating insulting abusive prejudicial behavior and vice versa.  I disagree with both, but I disagree with supply side in an intellectual way, while the other is a more emotional values driven thing.

I could not say to be honest. I do not follow all threads here. My opinion is the name should not be a title for any sort of pride. It is yet another wedge to divide society. I distrust negative labels because of the fact they are ineffective in their approach to change people to your liking. No I do not think there should be any word or phrase or label for those who are like that. I want to hear these people out rather and see where they got their ideas from. Labeling them does not help. Not listening to them and shutting them down does not help. Mixing them with a massive group such as the republicans CERTAINLY does not help and has caused so much hurt and anger and division. When will we wake up stop the self destruction?

I can sympathize heavily with what you say.

I note that after Trump called Hillary a 'nasty women', a good number of blue leaning ladies embraced the label with pride, buying and using 'nasty woman' T shirts and coffee mugs.  Like it or not, this is a reflection of where we are as a country just now.  Too often the other guy's insults have enough truth behind them to be embraced.

I am also bemused by a perceived need to be politically correct to the enemies of political correctness.  Treating each other with respect is definitely a good goal and those who favor respect should take the lead.  The other guys certainly won't.

Still, the people who are against treating people with respect can't be left unopposed.  When black churches are being burned and spray painted with 'vote Trump', the blue response can't be entirely polite.  You have to talk about the problem clearly and bluntly.

I used 'deplorable' while traditionally in the past I have used 'racist' or 'bigot'.  Gut feel, 'deplorable' seems the gentler word.  Again, I'm open to alternatives.  Silence, though, isn't a valid alternative.