Let's make fun of Trump, bash him, etc. while we can!

[pbrower2a]

Classic X'er, have you listened to the introduction of Kamala Harris and the measured speech of President Biden? He ripped your idol as thoroughly as is possible for the violation of norms essential over 200-some years for American democracy. Elections beyond certifiable doubt are to be accepted, as we Democrats did in 2000 and 2016. We have always had a peaceful transition from one President to the next.

We can accept the results that we dislike not out of hopelessness but instead out of respect for the elections that define who the President is. Our elections are, for most of us, the sole expression that many of us have of democracy. Should the elections become irrelevant because their results are negated or because the elections are denied, then our elections become void and so does democracy.

One year after the Putsch and almost a year into the Biden Presidency, we still hear from some that Donald Trump is still rightly President despite the lack of evidence of any significant miscounting of the vote. We have never had that problem before.

In a despotic kingdom or an outright dictatorship, all might be about the Leader. Such was so with Nero, Ivan the Terrible, Henry VIII, Wilhelm II, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Castro, Mengistu, Idi Amin, Pinochet, Khomeini, or Saddam Hussein. It has never gone well. It would not go well here just because this is America. It would not be the America that you know. Even if the ideology and your beloved White Power are achieved, then you might be at risk if you grumble or slack off.

Donald Trump has done what all dictators have done: he has lied about everything that does not fit his idea of how the world must work. Reality may be inconvenient, but what else do we have?

[gabrielle]

'Scuse me, just gonna dump this here real quick:

[Classic-Xer]

(01-07-2022, 11:03 AM)gabrielle Wrote: 'Scuse me, just gonna dump this here real quick:

Gabrielle, the day that the mobs and guillotines show up in Washington DC, the bulk of America will be content with sitting on the side lines watching it implode. You guys amaze me, you want things fixed but your picking about who/what fixes it. Most of my Democratic buddies voted for Donald Trump because he was the only candidate willing to address the trade policies that were gutting this country. One other note, I see Tulsi on Fox News quite a bit lately. Trump didn't do or say anything that I haven't seen a Democrat do or say before him. Now, I don't care if you end up being booted from America and end up living out the rest of your under some sort of blue (quasi socialist) dictatorship. I know Tulsi will be living in America. She may have to let go of Hawaii but she will do that along with every other American currently living in blue territories so to speak.

[pbrower2a]

Ain't it the truth!

I've been in the Capitol on a tour, and I had great reverence for its history as a place in which many of the defining moments in American history were made. This is where Congress approved treaties annexing land or ending wars... and of course determining that the soldiers putting their lives at risk for their country had the supplies that they needed. This is where many of the great debates were made on Social Security, the GI Bill, civil rights, and Medicare were made. You may dislike what goes on at times, but we usually get things right.

The putschists are a great disgrace to America. Maybe they failed to fully understand what they were doing, as this is without precedent -- for reasons that most of us well understood beforehand. Many of us know now, especially as jail and prison terms get imposed. I have heard some invoking white privilege as an excuse; what schmucks!

Much was said, but nothing resembles what one might have expected from Everett Dirksen or Barack Obama in the Senate. I've seen the Capitol Police, and they seemed more like tour guides because most people have typically held the Capitol as a place of deep reverence. Had the putschists succeeded there might never be room for the sorts of people that I mentioned as Senators from Illinois.

[Classic-Xer]

(01-07-2022, 03:34 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: Classic X'er, have you listened to the introduction of Kamala Harris and the measured speech of President Biden? He ripped your idol as thoroughly as is possible for the violation of norms essential over 200-some years for American democracy. Elections beyond certifiable doubt are to be accepted, as we Democrats did in 2000 and 2016. We have always had a peaceful transition from one President to the next.

We can accept the results that we dislike not out of hopelessness but instead out of respect for the elections that define who the President is. Our elections are, for most of us, the sole expression that many of us have of democracy. Should the elections become irrelevant because their results are negated or because the elections are denied, then our elections become void and so does democracy.

One year after the Putsch and almost a year into the Biden Presidency, we still hear from some that Donald Trump is still rightly President despite the lack of evidence of any significant miscounting of the vote. We have never had that problem before.

In a despotic kingdom or an outright dictatorship, all might be about the Leader. Such was so with Nero, Ivan the Terrible, Henry VIII, Wilhelm II, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Castro, Mengistu, Idi Amin, Pinochet, Khomeini, or Saddam Hussein. It has never gone well. It would not go well here just because this is America. It would not be the America that you know. Even if the ideology and  your beloved White Power are achieved, then you might be at risk if you grumble or slack off.

Donald Trump has done what all dictators have done: he has lied about everything that does not fit his idea of how the world must work. Reality may be inconvenient, but what else do we have?

I listened to them but it was pretty clear that neither of them were speaking to me. You can listen to them along with the other 35% still listening to them and continue going down the toilet along with them. You elected them so you're stuck with them. Me, I'm moving on like the majority of Americans and determining options along with everyone else who isn't in your position.

Hint: Trump doesn't have to wait til 2024 to run as our President. He could start running right now and represent 2/3 of the country. I don't know where that would leave Biden/Harris or the ilk in Washington DC. Dude, we are inching our way towards civil war. Do you have any idea or a clue what you're going to be dying/sacrificing for these days? Is the right to steel from others worth dying/sacrificing for? Do you see where you at (which side you are on) PB? How many of your German relatives did my American aunts and uncles kill PB? Now you've got Asperger's like one of my nephews, I'd sure hate to kill or inflict major suffering on someone who ain't playing with a full deck PB.

[David Horn]

(01-06-2022, 08:30 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Biden didn't sound senile at all today as he nailed Trump to the wall in his speech on the anniversary of his attempted coup. I don't even call it an insurrection, because such might be laudible against a real tyrant that had seized power, as is happening today in Kazakhstan and has been tried in countless other countries recently where democracy had been stolen or never allowed. But this was a tyrant using lies to turn everything upside down in the heads of fools like Classic Xer so that a demagogue tyrant could seize power. It failed, but still threatens to happen again.

Regarding Biden: he's too old to run again ... period! It's not that he can't do the work. It's more a case of being too old to inspire the youth, and they need a huge jump-start. Who can do it is open to discussion. They rallied around Bernie, the oldest guy in the race, last time. It isn't physical age so much as emotional age, and Biden is a Silent through and through. I suspect it will be a firebrand next time, and good luck getting him or her elected. Then again, we need to see that kind of passion and thought, or nothing will ever change.

[David Horn]

(01-07-2022, 11:03 AM)gabrielle Wrote: 'Scuse me, just gonna dump this here real quick:

Really great.  Thanks.

[Classic-Xer]

(01-07-2022, 12:39 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Ain't it the truth!

I've been in the Capitol on a tour, and I had great reverence for its history as a place in which many of the defining moments in American history were made. This is where Congress approved treaties annexing land or ending wars... and of course determining that the soldiers putting their lives at risk for their country had the supplies that they needed. This is where many of the great debates were made on Social Security, the GI Bill, civil rights, and Medicare were made. You may dislike what goes on at times, but we usually get things right.

The putschists are a great disgrace to America. Maybe they failed to fully understand what they were doing, as this is without precedent -- for reasons that most of us well understood beforehand. Many of us know now, especially as jail and prison terms get imposed. I have heard some invoking white privilege as an excuse; what schmucks!

Much was said, but nothing resembles what one might have expected from Everett Dirksen or Barack Obama in the Senate. I've seen the Capitol Police, and they seemed more like tour guides because most people have typically held the Capitol as a place of deep reverence. Had the putschists succeeded there might never be room for the sorts of people that I mentioned as Senators from Illinois.

The government is a disgrace for the most part these days. I mean, look at all the shit the government supports and allows to go on today. You're upset and appalled, Me, I wasn't surprised and summed it up as a bunch of morons receiving a dose of their own. Like I said, I wouldn't want to be you or Eric knowing where most Americans are at as far as the government goes, PB, I don't if you are up to par on current events but there are two large groups of people with no love loss between them. Hint: I'm related to one and you're related to the other and there's a group of independents (mainly moderate Democrats and moderate Democrats who switched parties over abortion or whatever) but they're pretty much irrelevant at this point. You should start checking the information your being fed by the Democratic party. The bulk of it is outdated and irrelevant. I'm not continually fed information like you guys.

[Classic-Xer]

(01-07-2022, 12:59 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(01-06-2022, 08:30 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Biden didn't sound senile at all today as he nailed Trump to the wall in his speech on the anniversary of his attempted coup. I don't even call it an insurrection, because such might be laudible against a real tyrant that had seized power, as is happening today in Kazakhstan and has been tried in countless other countries recently where democracy had been stolen or never allowed. But this was a tyrant using lies to turn everything upside down in the heads of fools like Classic Xer so that a demagogue tyrant could seize power. It failed, but still threatens to happen again.

Regarding Biden: he's too old to run again ... period!  It's not that he can't do the work.  It's more a case of being too old to inspire the youth, and they need a huge jump-start.  Who can do it is open to discussion.  They rallied around Bernie, the oldest guy in the race, last time.  It isn't physical age so much as emotional age, and Biden is a Silent through and through.  I suspect it will be a firebrand next time, and good luck getting him or her elected.  Then again, we need to see that kind of passion and thought, or nothing will ever change.

He can't do the work. He's not making sound decisions. He doesn't seem to know what's going on most of the time. He shouldn't be President...Period. OK, he is what he is and most of the country is well aware of his condition. BTW, I didn't think the Biden charade would last very long. As a matter of fact, I told you guys that he wasn't going to make it a full term. So, what's America supposed to do while he's in office and those who elected him and those who sealed the deal anyway so to speak.

[Eric the Green]

(01-07-2022, 03:11 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(01-07-2022, 12:59 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(01-06-2022, 08:30 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Biden didn't sound senile at all today as he nailed Trump to the wall in his speech on the anniversary of his attempted coup. I don't even call it an insurrection, because such might be laudible against a real tyrant that had seized power, as is happening today in Kazakhstan and has been tried in countless other countries recently where democracy had been stolen or never allowed. But this was a tyrant using lies to turn everything upside down in the heads of fools like Classic Xer so that a demagogue tyrant could seize power. It failed, but still threatens to happen again.

Regarding Biden: he's too old to run again ... period!  It's not that he can't do the work.  It's more a case of being too old to inspire the youth, and they need a huge jump-start.  Who can do it is open to discussion.  They rallied around Bernie, the oldest guy in the race, last time.  It isn't physical age so much as emotional age, and Biden is a Silent through and through.  I suspect it will be a firebrand next time, and good luck getting him or her elected.  Then again, we need to see that kind of passion and thought, or nothing will ever change.

He can't do the work. He's not making sound decisions. He doesn't seem to know what's going on most of the time. He shouldn't be President...Period. OK, he is what he is and most of the country is well aware of his condition. BTW, I didn't think the Biden charade would last very long. As a matter of fact, I told you guys that he wasn't going to make it a full term. So, what's America supposed to do while he's in office and those who elected him and those who sealed the deal anyway so to speak.

Did you see Biden's speech? He didn't sound senile to me. He came out fighting. So why say he's too old, David, upon hearing that speech? That should be reassuring.

Who is going to run if Biden does not? Kamala Harris has zero chance of being elected. Horoscope scores are reliable; she has 3-17, one of the poorest scores ever. Events have already proved this. She is less popular in polls than Biden. Her previous campaign failed because her audiences were bored and stopped coming and her funds dried up even before the primary. She was chosen for her demographic categories. That isn't enough to win. Landrieu and McAuliffe are the only Democratic candidates who can beat Trump or the other strong Republican candidates like Tim Scott and Tom Cotton (or even Marco Rubio), and they don't seem able or willing to run. I don't see any basis to say that who can "inspire" the youth "is open to discussion". There's no-one available, period.

We are stuck with Biden through January 2029. Millennials, the biggest part of the electorate by far by 2025, won't need to be that impressed by an inspiring candidate in order to vote; in 2020 they voted for Biden in the general and flaked out on Sanders in the primary. They are slowly learning civic virtue as a civic generation, so they will vote on issues and principles, of which the first is democracy (of which the Democrats are the champions, and Republicans are the opponents).

We can't afford a Republican as president when the needed decisions on climate change have not been made, and we have only a few months now to make them. We'll likely need to make much more progress in 2025. We can't afford a Republican as president when that Party is making great headway to destroy our democracy by putting party hacks in as election officials and empowering legislators to steal electoral votes. Nov.2024 to Jan 2025 will be the peak of the 4T Crisis, centering on potential civil war. We can't afford to have a Republican put in as president at a time when we need to have the various armed forces of the state in Democratic hands to forestall an armed revolt or another attempted takeover by Classic Xer's right-wing militias.

Biden's weakness now is failure to anticipate events. But that is not his fault alone. His entire adminstration seems a bit asleep at the switch, and Republicans certainly have had nothing to offer in this regard. These events have been hard to anticipate in any event. But some sharper seers need to step up. Somebody needs to prevail upon him to require Pfizer and Moderna to share the vaccine patents with the world. Otherwise another variant will appear. That should be obvious right now, but Biden hasn't acted.

[pbrower2a]

(01-07-2022, 02:05 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(01-07-2022, 12:39 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Ain't it the truth!

I've been in the Capitol on a tour, and I had great reverence for its history as a place in which many of the defining moments in American history were made. This is where Congress approved treaties annexing land or ending wars... and of course determining that the soldiers putting their lives at risk for their country had the supplies that they needed. This is where many of the great debates were made on Social Security, the GI Bill, civil rights, and Medicare were made. You may dislike what goes on at times, but we usually get things right.

The putschists are a great disgrace to America. Maybe they failed to fully understand what they were doing, as this is without precedent -- for reasons that most of us well understood beforehand. Many of us know now, especially as jail and prison terms get imposed. I have heard some invoking white privilege as an excuse; what schmucks!

Much was said, but nothing resembles what one might have expected from Everett Dirksen or Barack Obama in the Senate. I've seen the Capitol Police, and they seemed more like tour guides because most people have typically held the Capitol as a place of deep reverence. Had the putschists succeeded there might never be room for the sorts of people that I mentioned as Senators from Illinois.

The government is a disgrace for the most part these days.

Far too simplistic. Donald Trump, wholly inadequate to be President because of his egocentric personality (in essence, everything is about himself, and to him such is the sole measure of virtue) that cannot recognize the indelible diversity of America in every possible aspect. This country may have a living saint or two, but it also has Dennis "BTK" Rader and Gary "Green River Rapist/Killer" Ridgway in it. Criminals love to get fake US passports because about everyone looks like some sort of American -- of course they do not want to show their criminality as they seek victims. (The second choice is Brazil, the only country that comes close to American diversity). Americans have multiple traditions, mostly from elsewhere, some formed here out of necessity (African-American heritage, all of which is made in America because slave-masters obliterated any cultural connections to Africa), and quite a few (tribal) traditions in America. Not one such tradition can be claimed to be better than another unless it is criminal. (If you ask which culture I disparage, I well know that most Italian-Americans agree with me on the Mafia types. I also concur with about everybody but themselves on KKK and neo-Nazi ideology, which is sickness. There is little difference between the KKK and Nazis). Labor-management differences have traditionally created their ideological divide, and I could make the case that America was at its best in its politics when such was the main divide. 

American government can only rarely be better than what people vote for. Ideally people are voting for people more competent at legislation and administration than they are themselves. We elect a disproportionate number of attorneys, but as a rule these are the closest things to learned generalists; I'm not convinced that learned non-generalists such as medical professionals, engineers, accountants, and research scientists would be good at government. Aside from Trump (who was a certifiable disaster as President), the most entrepreneurial fellow that anyone can now remember becoming President was Harry S Truman, and he was not a successful entrepreneur. He was a fine politician, and he well fit the pattern of a learned generalist. He read a lot... a lot. Ideally we do not elect rogues, although we have some. Maybe someone can't keep his hands off other people due to a sex drive out of control. 

Well, Donald Trump is a rogue, and it is not surprising that someone who cares for nobody except himself will use government to serve whatever desires they are. Trump is extremely immature and not particularly learned. I have never heard him cite any person from whom one can learn anything. I can cite Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, and Confucius on occasion, and don't let me forget the most accessible of all philosophers, Bertrand Russell. That is all that you need to know about me.  

Trump had none of the usual preparation to be President, and he is a dreadful person. That explains why Obama is already recognized as above-average as a President and Trump is one of the worst.       

Quote:I mean, look at all the (nonsense) the government supports and allows to go on today. You're upset and appalled, Me, I wasn't surprised and summed it up as a bunch of morons receiving a dose of their own. Like I said, I wouldn't want to be you or Eric knowing where most Americans are at as far as the government goes,

 
Well, well, well! We do not have some secret police like the Stasi that has informers everywhere that knows what view one holds, whether one likes the political and economic order, what cultural connections one has, what one's religious beliefs are, and has the means to send one to a some Orwellian "joycamp" -- that is, a political prison as the vile regime of Oceania twists words into lies in 1984. Maybe you'd like to have such places for people who dissent with your views. You play with fire if you seek such on behalf of your side. Many people who thought themselves the most dedicated Communists ended up dead under Josef Stalin.

74 million Americans voted for Trump and 81 million voted for Biden. That seems like a huge margin, but Trump still came close to winning due to the distortions that the Electoral College creates.  Joe Biden could have conceivably gotten an outright majority of the popular vote and lost to Trump with about a one-million nationwide shift in the popular vote toward Trump.

I know your kind well: all too well, Classic X'er. I know people who think that the definitive act of patriotism is to be part of the Trump wing of the Republican Party. Egad! I know people who think that the only real Americans are white Protestants of the fundamentalist variety. Egad! Such people are the clear majority in some parts of America, but those parts are grossly unrepresentative of America as a whole.

Quote:PB, I don't if you are up to par on current events but there are two large groups of people with no love loss between them. Hint: I'm related to one and you're related to the other and there's a group of independents (mainly moderate Democrats and moderate Democrats who switched parties over abortion or whatever) but they're pretty much irrelevant at this point. You should start checking the information your being fed by the Democratic party. The bulk of it is outdated and irrelevant.  I'm not continually fed information like you guys.

I suspect that you rely heavily upon FoX Propaganda Channel for news (it is OK on breaking news) for your view of the world.  FoX News is highly manipulative and has a powerful right-wing bias that turns its analysis into outright propaganda. 

Here is a relatively dated view (2004) but still it gives a pattern which has only intensified. 



If you are letting FoX into your mind, then your mind is being devoured much like a literal fox that gets into the hen house devours eggs.

[pbrower2a]

(01-07-2022, 12:43 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(01-07-2022, 03:34 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: Classic X'er, have you listened to the introduction of Kamala Harris and the measured speech of President Biden? He ripped your idol as thoroughly as is possible for the violation of norms essential over 200-some years for American democracy. Elections beyond certifiable doubt are to be accepted, as we Democrats did in 2000 and 2016. We have always had a peaceful transition from one President to the next.

We can accept the results that we dislike not out of hopelessness but instead out of respect for the elections that define who the President is. Our elections are, for most of us, the sole expression that many of us have of democracy. Should the elections become irrelevant because their results are negated or because the elections are denied, then our elections become void and so does democracy.

One year after the Putsch and almost a year into the Biden Presidency, we still hear from some that Donald Trump is still rightly President despite the lack of evidence of any significant miscounting of the vote. We have never had that problem before.

In a despotic kingdom or an outright dictatorship, all might be about the Leader. Such was so with Nero, Ivan the Terrible, Henry VIII, Wilhelm II, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Castro, Mengistu, Idi Amin, Pinochet, Khomeini, or Saddam Hussein. It has never gone well. It would not go well here just because this is America. It would not be the America that you know. Even if the ideology and  your beloved White Power are achieved, then you might be at risk if you grumble or slack off.

Donald Trump has done what all dictators have done: he has lied about everything that does not fit his idea of how the world must work. Reality may be inconvenient, but what else do we have?

I listened to them but it was pretty clear that neither of them were speaking to me.

Would it be right if we Democrats staged such a takeover of the Capitol? It was wrong no matter who did it. We are obliged to accept electoral results even if we are not completely sure that they aren't tainted due to dirty tricks that we cannot prove when we dislike those results. For four years I recognized Donald Trump as President by law even if I followed such with some sort of cursing. Well, if you wanted a different President, you might have spent some time in some other country. Angela Merkel (technically Chancellor of Germany) is on the Right side of the political spectrum in her country, but she has her virtues. She despised Trump. 

Consider what would have happened had Trump been able to get the 2020 election nullified. We'd have a very weak President setting up a Seven Days in May  scenario. It wouldn't take much for the Armed Services and intelligence agencies to turn against him. The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff made clear that there would be no legitimate second term for Donald Trump.    

Quote:You can listen to them along with the other 35% still listening to them and continue going down the toilet along  with them. You elected them so you're stuck with them.   Me, I'm moving on like the majority of Americans and determining options along with everyone else who isn't in your position.

You fail to recognize the power of words used well. 

Quote:Hint: Trump doesn't have to wait til 2024 to run as our President. He could start running right now and represent 2/3 of the country. I don't know where that would leave Biden/Harris or the ilk in Washington DC.  Dude, we are inching our way towards civil war. Do you have any idea or a clue what you're going to be dying/sacrificing for these days? Is the right to steel from others worth dying/sacrificing for? Do you see where you at (which side you are on) PB? How many of your German relatives did my American aunts and uncles kill PB? Now you've got Asperger's like one of my nephews, I'd sure hate to kill or inflict major suffering on someone who ain't playing with a full deck PB.

America does not divide neatly into some "real America" and something unreal (except for fiction and fantasy, things that many of us need for keeping our sanity). 

We German-Americans are a big part of America, and most of us are on the Right side of the political spectrum. Most of us voted for Trump. The people with German-sounding names who loudly excoriated Trump are largely Jewish, and their connections to Germany are shaky at best. 

Considering what the German people did during World War II, it would have been better had they mass-converted to Judaism. They would have lost Christmas, pork, and shellfish if they had gone Orthodox. There was nothing wrong with the Germans between 1930 and 1945 that Judaism would not have solved. I love Bach and hate Hitler, which is now the norm in Germany. My stomach churns when I see video of Nazis (documentary or feature films) celebrating Christmas because they were killing the people who were the source of Jesus. Under Nazi 'racial' laws, Jesus was fully qualified for being compelled to breathe fumes of Zyklon-B (lethal hydrogen cyanide). 

As far as that goes, I'd rather exchange the German part of my origin for something else because I want no connection to Nazi butchers. I have told neo-Nazis that if I had to choose between being a Jew and a Nazi I would be Jewish because such would compromise neither my moral not cultural values. Of course one does not choose one's ancestors.

[pbrower2a]

[Eric the Green]

German is the most common ancestry in northern middle America.

I have some, and a smattering of Dutch, French and Irish too, though I am mostly an ancestral Brit. I'm American for something like 8 to 10 generations on most of my lines. Doesn't that make me, uh, American?

[Bob Butler 54]

Quote:NEW YORK, Jan 10 (Reuters) - A New York man upset with what he perceived as Donald Trump's threats to democracy was criminally charged on Monday with threatening to kill the former U.S. president, who he once referred to as Hitler.

See?  There are crazies on both the left and the right.  Everyone knows Hitler and Trump are very different.  Hitler's destruction of democracy went much further and much better justifies violence.

[pbrower2a]

(01-10-2022, 01:42 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: German is the most common ancestry in northern middle America.

I have some, and a smattering of Dutch, French and Irish too, though I am mostly an ancestral Brit. I'm American for something like 8 to 10 generations on most of my lines. Doesn't that make me, uh, American?

I know. In my case I am about half German and Swiss and about half English, Welsh, and Scots-Irish with a smattering of Dutch, French, Belgian, Irish, Danish, and Norwegian. But go back beyond some early settlers in New England and you find people who had aristocratic ancestors and ultimately Royals. Royalty was an interlocking directorate, with royal houses of England, Scotland, France, Spain, Portugal (Portuguese kings were really French and Spanish in origin), and Hungary serving as a sort of "interlocking directorate" that lasted until Henry VIII divorced his Spanish wife. King Duncan of Shakespeare's Macbeth is an ancestor and not a pure legend. 

Obviously there are plenty of ways to be an American, far more than someone like Classic X'er would admit. I'd say that the plantation slaves could only be American because they had no connection other than genetic to Africa. Slave-masters brutally obliterated any trace of African culture among them in order to destroy any sense of community among them. We of course know who the First Americans were. It may be surprising that the Aztecs who established a remarkable empire, barbarous only for having bloodthirsty gods, are descended from Ute and Shoshone people of the Great Basin. Many Mexican-Americans thus have genuinely-American ancestors through the Aztecs.

[pbrower2a]

(01-10-2022, 01:56 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

Quote:NEW YORK, Jan 10 (Reuters) - A New York man upset with what he perceived as Donald Trump's threats to democracy was criminally charged on Monday with threatening to kill the former U.S. president, who he once referred to as Hitler.

See?  There are crazies on both the left and the right.  Everyone knows Hitler and Trump are very different.  Hitler's destruction of democracy went much further and much better justifies violence.

Inexcusable, of course. Donald Trump was lawfully elected President in 2016 and merits recognition for such even if one completely despises him as much as I do. 

We liberals need not be hypocrites. We can recognize, expose, and prosecute our rogues; indeed we must if we are to have any moral authority. 

Trump was also lawfully defeated in a free, competitive, and fair election, and that demonstrates that democracy works. Assassination is not democracy. I can cheer the demise of such terrorists as abu-Mursab al-Zarqawi and of course Osama bin Laden, the Mossad whacking Herbert Cukurs (Latvia's equivalent of Charles Lindbergh before WWII, but also a mass-killer of Jews as a collaborator with Nazi Germany) or even the Yugoslav secret police  attempting to assassinating (he was not killed outright) wartime Croatian dictator, Jew-slaughterer, and Nazi puppet Ante Pavelic.

[David Horn]

(01-10-2022, 01:56 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

Quote:NEW YORK, Jan 10 (Reuters) - A New York man upset with what he perceived as Donald Trump's threats to democracy was criminally charged on Monday with threatening to kill the former U.S. president, who he once referred to as Hitler.

See?  There are crazies on both the left and the right.  Everyone knows Hitler and Trump are very different.  Hitler's destruction of democracy went much further and much better justifies violence.

Wacknuts exist in all philosophical camps.  The extreme SJWs, for instance, are nearly perfect fodder for the white nationalists (WNs) they oppose.  Hint: the WNs make much better use of their opponents activities than the SJWs do.

[Classic-Xer]

(01-07-2022, 10:37 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(01-07-2022, 02:05 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(01-07-2022, 12:39 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Ain't it the truth!

I've been in the Capitol on a tour, and I had great reverence for its history as a place in which many of the defining moments in American history were made. This is where Congress approved treaties annexing land or ending wars... and of course determining that the soldiers putting their lives at risk for their country had the supplies that they needed. This is where many of the great debates were made on Social Security, the GI Bill, civil rights, and Medicare were made. You may dislike what goes on at times, but we usually get things right.

The putschists are a great disgrace to America. Maybe they failed to fully understand what they were doing, as this is without precedent -- for reasons that most of us well understood beforehand. Many of us know now, especially as jail and prison terms get imposed. I have heard some invoking white privilege as an excuse; what schmucks!

Much was said, but nothing resembles what one might have expected from Everett Dirksen or Barack Obama in the Senate. I've seen the Capitol Police, and they seemed more like tour guides because most people have typically held the Capitol as a place of deep reverence. Had the putschists succeeded there might never be room for the sorts of people that I mentioned as Senators from Illinois.

The government is a disgrace for the most part these days.

Far too simplistic. Donald Trump, wholly inadequate to be President because of his egocentric personality (in essence, everything is about himself, and to him such is the sole measure of virtue) that cannot recognize the indelible diversity of America in every possible aspect. This country may have a living saint or two, but it also has Dennis "BTK" Rader and Gary "Green River Rapist/Killer" Ridgway in it. Criminals love to get fake US passports because about everyone looks like some sort of American -- of course they do not want to show their criminality as they seek victims. (The second choice is Brazil, the only country that comes close to American diversity). Americans have multiple traditions, mostly from elsewhere, some formed here out of necessity (African-American heritage, all of which is made in America because slave-masters obliterated any cultural connections to Africa), and quite a few (tribal) traditions in America. Not one such tradition can be claimed to be better than another unless it is criminal. (If you ask which culture I disparage, I well know that most Italian-Americans agree with me on the Mafia types. I also concur with about everybody but themselves on KKK and neo-Nazi ideology, which is sickness. There is little difference between the KKK and Nazis). Labor-management differences have traditionally created their ideological divide, and I could make the case that America was at its best in its politics when such was the main divide. 

American government can only rarely be better than what people vote for. Ideally people are voting for people more competent at legislation and administration than they are themselves. We elect a disproportionate number of attorneys, but as a rule these are the closest things to learned generalists; I'm not convinced that learned non-generalists such as medical professionals, engineers, accountants, and research scientists would be good at government. Aside from Trump (who was a certifiable disaster as President), the most entrepreneurial fellow that anyone can now remember becoming President was Harry S Truman, and he was not a successful entrepreneur. He was a fine politician, and he well fit the pattern of a learned generalist. He read a lot... a lot. Ideally we do not elect rogues, although we have some. Maybe someone can't keep his hands off other people due to a sex drive out of control. 

Well, Donald Trump is a rogue, and it is not surprising that someone who cares for nobody except himself will use government to serve whatever desires they are. Trump is extremely immature and not particularly learned. I have never heard him cite any person from whom one can learn anything. I can cite Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, and Confucius on occasion, and don't let me forget the most accessible of all philosophers, Bertrand Russell. That is all that you need to know about me.  

Trump had none of the usual preparation to be President, and he is a dreadful person. That explains why Obama is already recognized as above-average as a President and Trump is one of the worst.       

Quote:I mean, look at all the (nonsense) the government supports and allows to go on today. You're upset and appalled, Me, I wasn't surprised and summed it up as a bunch of morons receiving a dose of their own. Like I said, I wouldn't want to be you or Eric knowing where most Americans are at as far as the government goes,

 
Well, well, well! We do not have some secret police like the Stasi that has informers everywhere that knows what view one holds, whether one likes the political and economic order, what cultural connections one has, what one's religious beliefs are, and has the means to send one to a some Orwellian "joycamp" -- that is, a political prison as the vile regime of Oceania twists words into lies in 1984. Maybe you'd like to have such places for people who dissent with your views. You play with fire if you seek such on behalf of your side. Many people who thought themselves the most dedicated Communists ended up dead under Josef Stalin.

74 million Americans voted for Trump and 81 million voted for Biden. That seems like a huge margin, but Trump still came close to winning due to the distortions that the Electoral College creates.  Joe Biden could have conceivably gotten an outright majority of the popular vote and lost to Trump with about a one-million nationwide shift in the popular vote toward Trump.

I know your kind well: all too well, Classic X'er. I know people who think that the definitive act of patriotism is to be part of the Trump wing of the Republican Party. Egad! I know people who think that the only real Americans are white Protestants of the fundamentalist variety. Egad! Such people are the clear majority in some parts of America, but those parts are grossly unrepresentative of America as a whole.

Quote:PB, I don't if you are up to par on current events but there are two large groups of people with no love loss between them. Hint: I'm related to one and you're related to the other and there's a group of independents (mainly moderate Democrats and moderate Democrats who switched parties over abortion or whatever) but they're pretty much irrelevant at this point. You should start checking the information your being fed by the Democratic party. The bulk of it is outdated and irrelevant.  I'm not continually fed information like you guys.

I suspect that you rely heavily upon FoX Propaganda Channel for news (it is OK on breaking news) for your view of the world.  FoX News is highly manipulative and has a powerful right-wing bias that turns its analysis into outright propaganda. 

Here is a relatively dated view (2004) but still it gives a pattern which has only intensified. 



If you are letting FoX into your mind, then your mind is being devoured much like a literal fox that gets into the hen house devours eggs.

PB, how many of you have ever watched Fox News? Once again, what you and the others say claim or claim to be true about me is only/ mainly true about yourselves. You are done PB and it's just a matter of how/which way you and the others end up going out at this point.

[pbrower2a]

I have, and I quit watching it (or more precisely, quit hearing it when my father went to the nursing home). I can see through its methods of manipulating the mood of its audience. Start with an armed robbery somewhere in America and cut to the police chase. Then cut to the story. "Get angry, folks!" Well, I do not want my mood manipulated to get the desired attitude for seeing a story. I'll make up my mind after I see, hear, or read the story.