It's in the "stars" (predicting by astrology and other means)

[ChrisP]

[quote pid='14837' dateline='1481158286']
Eric

The T4Ters have a very hard time admitting that their saeculum exactly equals the Uranus orbit during the history of the colonies and USA. Even the authors stated that by definition the saeculum is 84 years = the orbit of Uranus. And the meaning of Uranus was defined by astrologer/philosopher Dane Rudhyar as based on the length of a human life = how S&H define the saeculum. But, that doesn't stop most people HERE from ignoring this crystal-clear link of the S&H cycle to astrology.
[/quote]


Eric - How do you then account for the longer S&H saeculum prior to the U.S. and in other countries?

[Eric the Green]

They added those later. Originally they just applied it to the USA and the colonies. As applied to other countries, however, the concept is the same. Astrologically, it would be indicated by where Uranus is at the founding moment. For the USA, that is 9 degrees of Gemini, where Uranus was when Jamestown was founded in 1607, and then returned there during the crisis of the 1690s, then to July 4, 1776, April 1861, May of 1944 and in the future in 2027.

In France, Uranus was in Leo during the French Revolution in 1789-94, and when it returned there, the first long-lasting Republic was founded in the 1870s, and then the Fifth Republic changed their constitution again in 1958.

Before the modern revolutionary times, Uranus was not discovered. Its discovery in 1781, the year the USA won its independence and thus became the first independent democratic republic in the world, and the years leading up to it when astronomers were spotting Uranus but didn't know yet what it was ("the enlightenment and scientific revolution era"), represents astrologically the coming of the traits of Uranus (revolution, inventions, liberty, independent thought, unconventional approaches to life) into full human consciousness and society, whereas before then it only had significance in our collective unconscious.

The saeculum was originally based by the authors on the Roman concept of 100 year cycles; that's where the name comes from. Astrologically, the way I see it is that society back then was governed under the cycles of Jupiter and Saturn. They represent "the establishment" of the authority of kings (Saturn) and priests (Jupiter); the reign of Chronos lasting for several millennia. But the modern world represents the overturning of applecarts, and the ability of new generations to depart from what their parents did and pursue careers open to talent. And also to explore the invisible, much as the outer planets are invisible to the naked eye.

The modern world, represented by Uranus, Neptune and Pluto, is fundamentally different from the ancient and medieval world in that way. More people are involved in history than before, and they make history from generation to generation. And the 4 archetypes can only exist in the modern world, because in the ancient/medieval world people did not live long enough for a true modern saeculum to form, because there were only 2 active generations alive at any time. The modern world is like a great wheel of progress in motion that has speeded up, from 100 to 84 years.

So that's it in a nutshell!

By the way Neptune and Pluto have orbits roughly twice and three times that of Uranus; in-effect indicating double and triple rhythms. The average for half of Neptune and a third of Pluto is about 82 years, slightly faster than Uranus.

[Eric the Green]

Another important thing to remember, which the followers of Brexit and Trumpland are resisting, is that since the late 19th century and 20th century (the time when Neptune and Pluto made a conjunction starting a new 500-year cycle of civilization), the world is becoming one world global civilization and culture, for better or in some ways worse. But it cannot be stopped as long as technology and social change advance. For the saeculum, it means that the generation/turning cycle experienced in other countries is gradually aligning itself with the dominant cycle, which is the American and Western one. So, increasingly, it's all following the same cycle of Uranus as the American saeculum.

The great World Wars made an irrevocable shift from the past in that respect. The old empires were overthrown, and the result of the World Wars was the founding of the League of Nations and the United Nations, the foundation of global governance.

[ChrisP]

(12-09-2016, 03:14 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: They added those later. Originally they just applied it to the USA and the colonies. As applied to other countries, however, the concept is the same. Astrologically, it would be indicated by where Uranus is at the founding moment. For the USA, that is 9 degrees of Gemini, where Uranus was when Jamestown was founded in 1607, and then returned there during the crisis of the 1690s, then to July 4, 1776, April 1861, May of 1944 and in the future in 2027.

In France, Uranus was in Leo during the French Revolution in 1789-94, and when it returned there, the first long-lasting Republic was founded in the 1870s, and then the Fifth Republic changed their constitution again in 1958.

Before the modern revolutionary times, Uranus was not discovered. Its discovery in 1781, the year the USA won its independence and thus became the first independent democratic republic in the world, and the years leading up to it when astronomers were spotting Uranus but didn't know yet what it was ("the enlightenment and scientific revolution era"), represents astrologically the coming of the traits of Uranus (revolution, inventions, liberty, independent thought, unconventional approaches to life) into full human consciousness and society, whereas before then it only had significance in our collective unconscious.

The saeculum was originally based by the authors on the Roman concept of 100 year cycles; that's where the name comes from. Astrologically, the way I see it is that society back then was governed under the cycles of Jupiter and Saturn. They represent "the establishment" of the authority of kings (Saturn) and priests (Jupiter); the reign of Chronos lasting for several millennia. But the modern world represents the overturning of applecarts, and the ability of new generations to depart from what their parents did and pursue careers open to talent. And also to explore the invisible, much as the outer planets are invisible to the naked eye.

The modern world, represented by Uranus, Neptune and Pluto, is fundamentally different from the ancient and medieval world in that way. More people are involved in history than before, and they make history from generation to generation. And the 4 archetypes can only exist in the modern world, because in the ancient/medieval world people did not live long enough for a true modern saeculum to form, because there were only 2 active generations alive at any time. The modern world is like a great wheel of progress in motion that has speeded up, from 100 to 84 years.

So that's it in a nutshell!

By the way Neptune and Pluto have orbits roughly twice and three times that of Uranus; in-effect indicating double and triple rhythms. The average for half of Neptune and a third of Pluto is about 82 years, slightly faster than Uranus.

Thanks!  Looking forward to 2027

[Eric the Green]

I know Galen and maybe Taramarie would disagree, and I'm not going to look; and maybe Rags would still quibble. I predicted Hillary would win, and that's my mistake. And I can't deny my bias.

It is ironic that I missed it, because the two astrological systems I rely on and have worked on the most, the point system and the new moon before election method, both were correct. The point system favored (and now even more favors) Trump to win the election, and the new moon predicted that Hillary (representing the party holding the White House) would win the popular vote, and that was correct as well.

I predicted Hillary would win based on a couple of items regarding her horoscope, based on a questionable birth time. But I used it partly because it favored her to win. I was hoping I still think the birth chart I chose to use is correct, based on the preponderance of evidence as described here:

http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Clinton,_Hillary

But now with my additional checking and tallying, as well as switching Trump's and Clinton's aspects between winner and loser, I come up with an actual negative score for Hillary, and no candidate has ever won with a negative score unless the opponent had an equal or more negative score. So, it's partly in hindsight because I factored a Hillary win into how I scored the aspects in their charts within my database, which I should not have done.

Yes, Eric makes mistakes. But ironically, the systems I discovered did not. So, they will be useful going forward.

The only three candidates to win with a negative score were all Republicans.

James Garfield beat Winfield Scott Hancock in 1880. Both had a horoscope score of 8-9 in my latest count. It was the closest election in history by popular vote.

Calvin Coolidge beat John W. Davis in 1924. Coolidge scores 10-11, while Davis scores 8-17. Also running was Robert LaFollette who scores 6-14. Not even close. Neither was the election.

Herbert Hoover beat Al Smith in 1928. Hoover scores 11-12, while Smith scores 5-12. Again, not close. It was a landslide. Hoover went on to lose to FDR in 1932, who has a 21-5 score. Another landslide.

So, in my new count, Donald Trump has 9-4 and Hillary 9-11. She lost. In my previous version this year, it was Trump 8-4, Hillary 12-9. Last year, using my 2004 system, I had it as Trump 15-4 vs. Hillary 9-8.

My revised article is up.
http://philosopherswheel.com/presidentialelections.html

[Eric the Green]

It's all fascinating to me, and I certainly would not post it here if it weren't.

But take a look at Michael Moore's video above. He predicted Trump would win, but says that this election has been so crazy and unpredictable, that the unexpected could still happen and Hillary could still win.

That might make me feel a lot better if it happened, and would vindicate my prediction; on the other hand, it's unlikely I could reverse Hillary's negative score now! And so my candidate horoscope scoring system would be even more wrong now, if she wins.

That's mainly because of corrections of errors I made, and my new additional tally that's now a factor in my decision about the aspects. In the system before, Mercury square (or opposite) Saturn had barely made my list of favorable aspects. It was ranked #27 on my main list, and a bit higher on others, which is just barely enough. Now it's ranked in the 40s on my new tally; just average. And #37 on my main list. Switching Trump and Hillary's aspects between win and lose again will probably not bring this aspect back to where it was. You may remember that this is Hillary's strongest aspect in her chart; it's not even close. So she got an extra point for it too. That's two positive points she would not get on my system now, even if by some miracle things change and she wins. As Leonard Cohen said, oh well, "that's how it goes, everybody knows...."

So, once again, I can't agree with Michael Moore's prediction. As much as I hope for this, no, I predict that Trump is still going to win and become president. That's an easier prediction than the other one, for sure, but still, we'll see if I am correct now!

So now, it's like John Oliver's video about Trump and his Emmy some time back. Either way now, I win something.

[Eric the Green]

(12-07-2016, 07:40 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: My revised article with my latest scores is up:
http://philosopherswheel.com/presidentialelections.html

Regarding potential candidates mentioned in the video linked above:

Michelle Obama: 7-6 not too good.

Oprah Winfrey scores 10-5; no Jupiter rising.
Mark Zuckerberg 13-8

Not bad, but probably not scores that could successfully challenge The Donald (9-4) or Ivanka (17-0).

Chris Rock: 12-10

But there's one guy he passed over from the entertainment world: Seth Meyers. I did his numbers, and so far it looks good: 21-5. In this new Trumpworld, where being an entertainer is the chief qualification for president, Seth could give The Donald a run for his money!

TV star Ronald Reagan had 21-6.

Yeah, run Seth run!

Maybe it's worth a look at some of Trump's other nemeses from the TV humor late-night world. John Oliver, for starters. And some of the others. And they would offer something else that Trump lacks: knowledge and intelligence. (well John Oliver can't run since he wasn't born in the USA, and has only a 7-7 score anyway)

Maybe we should close down the White House and just run the country from a TV studio.

Update: Bill Maher, who admits to being "politically incorrect" and can't stop swearing on the air, has only a score of 9-17. Trevor Noah was not born in the USA. Jon Stewart is 12-10.

So, it's all up to Seth! He may have the best score of any Democrat. He is noted for his "reports" on the news, so he's very well-versed in politics. Along with President Obama, he spoke at the correspondents dinner at which Obama ridiculed Trump for his birther campaign, with Trump in the audience.

Here he is:

[Anthony '58]

(09-01-2016, 12:04 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(09-01-2016, 09:29 AM)Anthony Wrote: In addition to there going to be a Jupiter-Saturn conjunction in 2020, there will also be a perihelion/opposition of Mars and the Sun (causing Mars to flare up dramatically in brightness from out vantage point) in that year.

The last time those two events occurred in the same year?

1860 - when there of course was a "realigning election," which also directly caused a civil war.

The last four Martian perihelion/oppositions have also presaged some sort of violent conflict between Muslims and the adherents of some other religion(s): Vs. both Christians and Jews in 1956 - Billy Joel's "trouble in the Suez;" vs. Hindus in 1971 - the Indian-Pakistani war over Bangladesh (and the iconic humanitarian crisis it caused, resulting in the George Harrison-led We Are The World-like Concert For Bangladesh); vs. Jews in 1988 - the start of the Palestinian "Intifada" against Israel; and vs. Christians in 2003 - the U.S. invasion of Iraq.

So either a civil war or a religious war, or both, is possible in 2020, astrologically speaking.

That would be December-January 2020-2021.

Yes, I call it the Mars station. As Mars and the Earth get closer together, Mars seems to stop and then go backwards (retrograde) and then stop and go forward (stationary-direct). In the days following these stations, between a week and a month and a half, is when violent events and the start of wars tend to happen. The Sun-Mars opposition (when the Earth is between the Sun and Mars) happens half-way between the stations, which are about 2 to 3 months apart.

It happens every 2 years. It's not necessarily a religious conflict, unless Jupiter, Neptune or the signs Sagittarius and/or Pisces are involved. Wars tend to happen most often at these stations when Mars is also square or opposite Saturn and possibly Pluto; sometimes in trine too.

In January 2014, and then in April, were the previous 2 stations. January 2014 saw the uprising in Ukraine, and in April, the invasion by the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria. In that latter case, we had a grand cross of Mars, Jupiter, Pluto and Uranus. We have had a Mars station recently too, at the end of June.

In November 2020, Mars station-direct will happen, in Mars-sign Aries, and in mid-December it will be in square (active or aggressive aspect, 90 degrees apart) with Jupiter and Saturn as they form their conjunction at the winter solstice at 0 Aquarius, and Pluto in late Capricorn. With Jupiter involved, it seems likely religion will be involved. Look for any such war in December 2020. Earlier in September it turns retrograde, square Saturn. War may be possible then, but with Jupiter less involved then, it would be less likely to be a religious war. Usually though, the direct stations coincide more closely to the start of wars than retrograde stations.

Another famous case was late August 1939, when Mars turned stationary-direct in square to Saturn and opposite Pluto. The Russian-German non-aggression pact was announced that day. A week later Hitler invaded Poland. In August 2001, Mars had just turned stationary-direct in late July when it conjoined Pluto in Sagittarius (also a sign of flight as well as religion) and opposed Saturn in Gemini, just before Sagittarius' arrows flew into the Twin (Gemini) Towers (Saturn= structures) on Sept.11, 2001. An event I predicted.

When Mars returned to its position on Sept 11, 2001, and opposed Saturn and joined Pluto again, what I predicted to be "an upsurge in the 2001 war" happened-- the USA invasion of Iraq in early March 2003. The Sun was not opposing Mars then. The first Gulf War, as I predicted, happened soon after Mars turned stationary-direct on January 1, 1991, in close trine (120 degree angle) to Saturn. Because it was a harmonious trine, the war was "a cakewalk." (though it was a more arduous "walk" for the Kurds, and not so easy for the Shia in southern Iraq)

Any US civil war or US participation in this 2020 war or any war will happen when the USA Jupiter and Uranus Return cycles come around, which won't be until 2025-2026 now. The last Jupiter Return was in 2013-14, preceded by 2001, 1989-1990, 1977, 1965, 1953, 1941, 1929, 1917, 1906.... The Uranus Return Cycle = the modern saeculum, and the Return of the Crisis Climax: 2027, preceded by 1944, 1861, 1776, 1692, 1607.

In addition, in 2025-26 Neptune Returns to its position at 0 Aries when the civil war broke out (on the very same day it entered aggressive Aries) in April 1861.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAoeW5fXJYU

Specifically, the perihelion/opposition of Mars will be on October 13, 2020, while the Jupiter-Saturn conjunction will be on December 21, 2020 (the last one, on May 31, 2000, was too close to the Sun from our vantage point to be visible), the closest these two events have come together since 1860-61.  BTW, South Carolina seceded from the Union on December 20, 1860!

Numerology also enters the picture: The 2010s are a 3-decade, as were the 1920s - which largely explains why the 2010s feel so 3T-ish (this decade sure as hell feels 3T-ish to me).  The 2020s will be a 4-decade, as were the 1930s (and also the depression-marred 1840s).

The key will be the 2018 mid-term elections, which offer two things to watch: First, will the Tea Party types drain the swamp and throw the laissez-faire-ists out of office?  And second, will the Republicans gain a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate?

If the answer is Yes to the first OR No to the second, 2020 will become the realigning election - and likely, the election that touches off another civil war.

[Eric the Green]

(12-10-2016, 11:20 AM)Anthony 58 Wrote:

(09-01-2016, 12:04 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(09-01-2016, 09:29 AM)Anthony Wrote: In addition to there going to be a Jupiter-Saturn conjunction in 2020, there will also be a perihelion/opposition of Mars and the Sun (causing Mars to flare up dramatically in brightness from out vantage point) in that year.

The last time those two events occurred in the same year?

1860 - when there of course was a "realigning election," which also directly caused a civil war.

The last four Martian perihelion/oppositions have also presaged some sort of violent conflict between Muslims and the adherents of some other religion(s): Vs. both Christians and Jews in 1956 - Billy Joel's "trouble in the Suez;" vs. Hindus in 1971 - the Indian-Pakistani war over Bangladesh (and the iconic humanitarian crisis it caused, resulting in the George Harrison-led We Are The World-like Concert For Bangladesh); vs. Jews in 1988 - the start of the Palestinian "Intifada" against Israel; and vs. Christians in 2003 - the U.S. invasion of Iraq.

So either a civil war or a religious war, or both, is possible in 2020, astrologically speaking.

That would be December-January 2020-2021.

Yes, I call it the Mars station. As Mars and the Earth get closer together, Mars seems to stop and then go backwards (retrograde) and then stop and go forward (stationary-direct). In the days following these stations, between a week and a month and a half, is when violent events and the start of wars tend to happen. The Sun-Mars opposition (when the Earth is between the Sun and Mars) happens half-way between the stations, which are about 2 to 3 months apart.

It happens every 2 years. It's not necessarily a religious conflict, unless Jupiter, Neptune or the signs Sagittarius and/or Pisces are involved. Wars tend to happen most often at these stations when Mars is also square or opposite Saturn and possibly Pluto; sometimes in trine too.

In January 2014, and then in April, were the previous 2 stations. January 2014 saw the uprising in Ukraine, and in April, the invasion by the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria. In that latter case, we had a grand cross of Mars, Jupiter, Pluto and Uranus. We have had a Mars station recently too, at the end of June.

In November 2020, Mars station-direct will happen, in Mars-sign Aries, and in mid-December it will be in square (active or aggressive aspect, 90 degrees apart) with Jupiter and Saturn as they form their conjunction at the winter solstice at 0 Aquarius, and Pluto in late Capricorn. With Jupiter involved, it seems likely religion will be involved. Look for any such war in December 2020. Earlier in September it turns retrograde, square Saturn. War may be possible then, but with Jupiter less involved then, it would be less likely to be a religious war. Usually though, the direct stations coincide more closely to the start of wars than retrograde stations.

Another famous case was late August 1939, when Mars turned stationary-direct in square to Saturn and opposite Pluto. The Russian-German non-aggression pact was announced that day. A week later Hitler invaded Poland. In August 2001, Mars had just turned stationary-direct in late July when it conjoined Pluto in Sagittarius (also a sign of flight as well as religion) and opposed Saturn in Gemini, just before Sagittarius' arrows flew into the Twin (Gemini) Towers (Saturn= structures) on Sept.11, 2001. An event I predicted.

When Mars returned to its position on Sept 11, 2001, and opposed Saturn and joined Pluto again, what I predicted to be "an upsurge in the 2001 war" happened-- the USA invasion of Iraq in early March 2003. The Sun was not opposing Mars then. The first Gulf War, as I predicted, happened soon after Mars turned stationary-direct on January 1, 1991, in close trine (120 degree angle) to Saturn. Because it was a harmonious trine, the war was "a cakewalk." (though it was a more arduous "walk" for the Kurds, and not so easy for the Shia in southern Iraq)

Any US civil war or US participation in this 2020 war or any war will happen when the USA Jupiter and Uranus Return cycles come around, which won't be until 2025-2026 now. The last Jupiter Return was in 2013-14, preceded by 2001, 1989-1990, 1977, 1965, 1953, 1941, 1929, 1917, 1906.... The Uranus Return Cycle = the modern saeculum, and the Return of the Crisis Climax: 2027, preceded by 1944, 1861, 1776, 1692, 1607.

In addition, in 2025-26 Neptune Returns to its position at 0 Aries when the civil war broke out (on the very same day it entered aggressive Aries) in April 1861.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAoeW5fXJYU

Specifically, the perihelion/opposition of Mars will be on October 13, 2020, while the Jupiter-Saturn conjunction will be on December 21, 2020 (the last one, on May 31, 2000, was too close to the Sun from our vantage point to be visible), the closest these two events have come together since 1860-61.  BTW, South Carolina seceded from the Union on December 20, 1860!

Numerology also enters the picture: The 2010s are a 3-decade, as were the 1920s - which largely explains why the 2010s feel so 3T-ish (this decade sure as hell feels 3T-ish to me).  The 2020s will be a 4-decade, as were the 1930s (and also the depression-marred 1840s).

The key will be the 2018 mid-term elections, which offer two things to watch: First, will the Tea Party types drain the swamp and throw the laissez-faire-ists out of office?  And second, will the Republicans gain a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate?

If the answer is Yes to the first OR No to the second, 2020 will become the realigning election - and likely, the election that touches off another civil war.

I'm glad you are tuned into this; something like that is right.

I could not find any reference to confirm that Mars will be in perihelion to the Sun on Oct 13, 2020, as I mentioned to you. It is not found in any astrology ephemeris nor in any astronomical data I could find on the internet. I notice that Mars is moving retrograde more slowly in Oct than during other oppositions; I don't know if that means it is closer; I suppose so. But Mars was not in opposition to the Sun on May 31, 2000. An "opposition" to Mars can only occur between the Sun, Earth and Mars; the word has no meaning without the Earth. This kind of "opposition" does happen on Oct 31, 2020, as my ephemeris shows.

But the pattern I notice, is that when Mars is in opposition to the Sun from Earth, and then makes a "station" and turns direct from our viewpoint, wars and violent events of great importance break out within a month or a few weeks after the station. And in 2020, Mars will also be in square aspect to the Jupiter-Saturn conjunction in December 2020, which can be a violent angle or aspect according to astrology. And Mars in the sign Aries reminds us of Pearl Harbor. So a war is likely to break out then or in January, if patterns hold. That would fit with a civil war being declared after a new administration begins on Jan. 20th. Other patterns, such as the all-important and saeculum-defining Uranus Return, happen later though. And when it does, around 2025-27, the Jupiter cycle of US war will be in play too. So it has always looked to me like any civil war or other war involving the USA would not happen in 2020, but about 4-5 years later after the election of 2024. The war at the end of 2020 will likely be another mid-east conflagration, or perhaps another Russian invasion westward, or an East-Asian conflict; maybe all three at once.

But the 2020 election could well be a change of direction. If patterns work out as I hope, rather than as I fear (and as Warren, Classic Xer, Galen et al hope), the 2020s will be a progressive decade like the 1960s, 1900s, (to some extent) the 1840s, and the 1780s. It's a 60-year return of the positions of Jupiter and Saturn. I see the 2020 conjunction election resembling the 1960 one, when JFK said "let us begin" and got the country moving toward progress, including in the "progressive" sense of progress. But, once things got moving, they got unstable and more violent about 5 years later. Such will be the pattern again, it has always looked like to me. Certainly, events during particular decades tend to happen as a unit.

The Tea Party types ARE the laissez-fairists. You tend to get ideological alliances confused, with your interesting but unique point of view. But it's going to be much more straight-forward than you think. The battle remains typical red-blue, as we have known it.

[Eric the Green]

Just like Hitler did to the German working class in 1932, Trump hooked in voters like Tony with his xenophobic and nationalist rhetoric, and borrowed anti-laissez faire slogans from the left wing Democrats like Bernie, and just like Hitler promised the workers and small business people that he would rein in monopoly chain stores, so Trump promised them that he would beef up tariffs and end free trade, and stole that rhetoric from the Democrats too. But once in office, as he's already showing with his appointments, he'll forget about trade and reining in the oligarchy's corrupt swamp, and just carry out business as usual laissez faire cronyism, only this time on steroids, and that's ALL he'll do. Those who voted for Trump like Tony who thought he was creating a new "alignment" of the parties, will discover that NO, he's just Ronald Reagan, and will be doing the bidding of the oligarch class, of which he himself is the most famous representative, and has been for decades.

Republicans are all about deception and greed; that's all they offer, and all they ever will offer, and Trump is the new DIC. The swamp just got a whole lot bigger, and there's a whole lot more hungry alligators in it now, eager and ready to have the American people for lunch.

It would be great if we could learn that great Who song again, and not be fooled again. What are the odds? Not too good, I fear.

[Eric the Green]

(12-09-2016, 07:41 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(12-07-2016, 07:40 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: My revised article with my latest scores is up:
http://philosopherswheel.com/presidentialelections.html

Regarding potential candidates mentioned in the video linked above:

Michelle Obama: 7-6 not too good.

Oprah Winfrey scores 10-5; no Jupiter rising.
Mark Zuckerberg 13-8

Not bad, but probably not scores that could successfully challenge The Donald (9-4) or Ivanka (17-0).

Chris Rock: 12-10

But there's one guy he passed over from the entertainment world: Seth Meyers. I did his numbers, and so far it looks good: 21-5. In this new Trumpworld, where being an entertainer is the chief qualification for president, Seth could give The Donald a run for his money!

TV star Ronald Reagan had 21-6.

Yeah, run Seth run!

Maybe it's worth a look at some of Trump's other nemeses from the TV humor late-night world. John Oliver, for starters. And some of the others. And they would offer something else that Trump lacks: knowledge and intelligence. (well John Oliver can't run since he wasn't born in the USA, and has only a 7-7 score anyway)

Maybe we should close down the White House and just run the country from a TV studio.

Update: Bill Maher, who admits to being "politically incorrect" and can't stop swearing on the air, has only a score of 9-17. Trevor Noah was not born in the USA. Jon Stewart is 12-10.

So, it's all up to Seth! He may have the best score of any Democrat. He is noted for his "reports" on the news, so he's very well-versed in politics. Along with President Obama, he spoke at the correspondents dinner at which Obama ridiculed Trump for his birther campaign, with Trump in the audience.

Here he is:

Stephen Colbert horoscope score: 18-12

[Anthony '58]

The "perihelion/oppositions" of Mars and the Sun are never absolutely exact; but twice every 32 years they are as near as makes no difference to being exact, causing Mars to shine at a brightness exceeding -2.0 magnitude.  And of course Mars was not in opposition to the Sun on May 31, 2000 - and I only interjected that to demonstrate that this event was not visible from the Earth (Jupiter and Saturn rose an average of just eight minutes before the Sun!) while the 2020 event will be.

And my point of view is not really unique, in that it is largely influenced by various figures, most notably Michael Lind, but also prominently including the late Mike Royko in second place, followed by Daniel Patrick Moynihan, Henry "Scoop" Jackson, James Oberstar and, if posthumously, Hugh Carey.

[Eric the Green]

(12-11-2016, 02:26 PM)Anthony 58 Wrote: The "perihelion/oppositions" of Mars and the Sun are never absolutely exact; but twice every 32 years they are as near as makes no difference to being exact, causing Mars to shine at a brightness exceeding -2.0 magnitude.  

But do you have any source to verify this perihelion Mars? How did you learn about it? Who says?

I'm quite sure Daniel Patrick Moynihan would never have thought the Tea Party were not laissez faireists. Do you know what the TEA stands for in their name? They are the most outspoken and militant laissez faireists that we have. I don't understand how you could get that confused.

[Eric the Green]

Galen says I get nothing right, but I clearly predicted the two events mentioned here as being celebrated predictions by a Nobel Prize nominee. Now he says US power is on the wane. Truly, it is Galen's world view that will cause this decline and fall.

Donald Trump will cause US power to collapse, says man who correctly predicted fall of USSR

Election of Republican 'speeds up decline' of America, claims Nobel Prize-nominated professor

Harriet Agerholm @HarrietAgerholm Thursday 8 December 2016233 comments


A sociologist credited with predicting the fall of the Soviet Union has warned that US global power is in a phase of accelerated decline under the leadership of Donald Trump — and will collapse while the property mogul is the White House.

Norwegian professor Johan Galtung is known as the "founding father" of peace studies as a scientific subject and is recognised for correctly predicting numerous historical events, among them the Tiananmen Square uprising in China and the September 11 attacks.

He attracted controversy in 2000 when he predicted US global power would collapse by 2025.

But under the Bush administration he revised his forecast for the collapse to 2020. Now, he says that reality that is materialising following election of the bombastic billionaire.

Mr Trump’s election on an anti-immigrant platform coincides with one of the final phases of the decline predicted in the social scientist’s 2009 book The Fall of the American Empire—and then What? where he forecast the rise of facism before the country's power receded.

The President-elect has vowed to deport three million illegal immigrants as soon as he enters office and build a wall along the American border with Mexico.

He told Motherboard the election of Mr Trump "speeds up the decline", although he qualified the statement, saying: "Of course, what he does as a President remains to be seen."

Dr Galtung added that the President-elect's critical attitude to Nato also indicated the US would cease to be a superpower.

The Republican has previously indicated the US might not come to the aid of those in the alliance if they failed to meet the designated defence spending.

“The collapse has two faces,” Dr Galtung told the tech news site, “Other countries refuse to be good allies and the USA has to do the killing themselves, by bombing from high altitudes, drones steered by computer from an office, special forces killing all over the place.

"Both are happening today, except for Northern Europe, which supports these wars, for now. That will probably not continue beyond 2020, so I stand by that deadline.”

[Ragnarök_62]

(12-12-2016, 05:00 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Galen says I get nothing right, but I clearly predicted the two events mentioned here as being celebrated predictions by a Nobel Prize nominee. Now he says US power is on the wane. Truly, it is Galen's world view that will cause this decline and fall.

Donald Trump will cause US power to collapse, says man who correctly predicted fall of USSR

Election of Republican 'speeds up decline' of America, claims Nobel Prize-nominated professor

Dmitry Orlov  also has some words on this subject.  Rags suggests Eric have a read of :

https://www.amazon.com/Reinventing-Colla...0865716854

He's born in 1962, which means he's smart.

[Eric the Green]

I found it strange, Rags, that you said my predictions are not better than economists, when I have gotten everything right on here about the economy since I've been posting here. That's 19 years now. How many of these supposed "economists" predicted the exact month of the worst crash and depression since the Great Depression? Tell me. You saw my video. I made it pretty damn clear 10 years beforehand, and I was saying this even much earlier. So why did you say that, Rags?

[Ragnarök_62]

(12-12-2016, 11:45 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: I found it strange, Rags, that you said my predictions are not better than economists, when I have gotten everything right on here about the economy since I've been posting here. That's 19 years now. How many of these supposed "economists" predicted the exact month of the worst crash and depression since the Great Depression? Tell me. You saw my video. I made it pretty damn clear 10 years beforehand, and I was saying this even much earlier. So why did you say that, Rags?

"Wrt economists/astrologers,  one has to find the diamonds in the rough".  - Rags

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nouriel_Roubini


https://youtu.be/cyVolXreDXY

Ya happy now?

[Eric the Green]

(12-13-2016, 12:11 AM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:

(12-12-2016, 11:45 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: I found it strange, Rags, that you said my predictions are not better than economists, when I have gotten everything right on here about the economy since I've been posting here. That's 19 years now. How many of these supposed "economists" predicted the exact month of the worst crash and depression since the Great Depression? Tell me. You saw my video. I made it pretty damn clear 10 years beforehand, and I was saying this even much earlier. So why did you say that, Rags?

"Wrt economists/astrologers,  one has to find the diamonds in the rough".  - Rags

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nouriel_Roubini


https://youtu.be/cyVolXreDXY

Ya happy now?

Roubini I believe was a diamond on this. The wikipedia article points out that he was "one of the few." These videos are clearer about what I predicted (and much earlier than Roubini):

https://youtu.be/oKmyB1q3H68

https://youtu.be/WAoeW5fXJYU

[Anthony '58]

(12-12-2016, 01:41 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(12-11-2016, 02:26 PM)Anthony Wrote: The "perihelion/oppositions" of Mars and the Sun are never absolutely exact; but twice every 32 years they are as near as makes no difference to being exact, causing Mars to shine at a brightness exceeding -2.0 magnitude.  

But do you have any source to verify this perihelion Mars? How did you learn about it? Who says?

I'm quite sure Daniel Patrick Moynihan would never have thought the Tea Party were not laissez faireists. Do you know what the TEA stands for in their name? They are the most outspoken and militant laissez faireists that we have. I don't understand how you could get that confused.

I trust that this link will satisfy your criteria:

The 2020-21 Perihelic Appartion Of Mars

As for your second issue, having the government intentionally create labor shortages to drive up wages by cutting off immigration is not laissez-faire.  Government slapping prohibitive tariffs on foreign-made goods is not laissez faire, and is what the antebellum North favored and the antebellum South vehemently opposed.

The only difference between Donald Trump's approach and that of Bernie Sanders is that the former does not entail transfer payments.

[disasterzone]

(12-10-2016, 11:20 AM)Anthony 58 Wrote:

(09-01-2016, 12:04 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(09-01-2016, 09:29 AM)Anthony Wrote: In addition to there going to be a Jupiter-Saturn conjunction in 2020, there will also be a perihelion/opposition of Mars and the Sun (causing Mars to flare up dramatically in brightness from out vantage point) in that year.

The last time those two events occurred in the same year?

1860 - when there of course was a "realigning election," which also directly caused a civil war.

The last four Martian perihelion/oppositions have also presaged some sort of violent conflict between Muslims and the adherents of some other religion(s): Vs. both Christians and Jews in 1956 - Billy Joel's "trouble in the Suez;" vs. Hindus in 1971 - the Indian-Pakistani war over Bangladesh (and the iconic humanitarian crisis it caused, resulting in the George Harrison-led We Are The World-like Concert For Bangladesh); vs. Jews in 1988 - the start of the Palestinian "Intifada" against Israel; and vs. Christians in 2003 - the U.S. invasion of Iraq.

So either a civil war or a religious war, or both, is possible in 2020, astrologically speaking.

That would be December-January 2020-2021.

Yes, I call it the Mars station. As Mars and the Earth get closer together, Mars seems to stop and then go backwards (retrograde) and then stop and go forward (stationary-direct). In the days following these stations, between a week and a month and a half, is when violent events and the start of wars tend to happen. The Sun-Mars opposition (when the Earth is between the Sun and Mars) happens half-way between the stations, which are about 2 to 3 months apart.

It happens every 2 years. It's not necessarily a religious conflict, unless Jupiter, Neptune or the signs Sagittarius and/or Pisces are involved. Wars tend to happen most often at these stations when Mars is also square or opposite Saturn and possibly Pluto; sometimes in trine too.

In January 2014, and then in April, were the previous 2 stations. January 2014 saw the uprising in Ukraine, and in April, the invasion by the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria. In that latter case, we had a grand cross of Mars, Jupiter, Pluto and Uranus. We have had a Mars station recently too, at the end of June.

In November 2020, Mars station-direct will happen, in Mars-sign Aries, and in mid-December it will be in square (active or aggressive aspect, 90 degrees apart) with Jupiter and Saturn as they form their conjunction at the winter solstice at 0 Aquarius, and Pluto in late Capricorn. With Jupiter involved, it seems likely religion will be involved. Look for any such war in December 2020. Earlier in September it turns retrograde, square Saturn. War may be possible then, but with Jupiter less involved then, it would be less likely to be a religious war. Usually though, the direct stations coincide more closely to the start of wars than retrograde stations.

Another famous case was late August 1939, when Mars turned stationary-direct in square to Saturn and opposite Pluto. The Russian-German non-aggression pact was announced that day. A week later Hitler invaded Poland. In August 2001, Mars had just turned stationary-direct in late July when it conjoined Pluto in Sagittarius (also a sign of flight as well as religion) and opposed Saturn in Gemini, just before Sagittarius' arrows flew into the Twin (Gemini) Towers (Saturn= structures) on Sept.11, 2001. An event I predicted.

When Mars returned to its position on Sept 11, 2001, and opposed Saturn and joined Pluto again, what I predicted to be "an upsurge in the 2001 war" happened-- the USA invasion of Iraq in early March 2003. The Sun was not opposing Mars then. The first Gulf War, as I predicted, happened soon after Mars turned stationary-direct on January 1, 1991, in close trine (120 degree angle) to Saturn. Because it was a harmonious trine, the war was "a cakewalk." (though it was a more arduous "walk" for the Kurds, and not so easy for the Shia in southern Iraq)

Any US civil war or US participation in this 2020 war or any war will happen when the USA Jupiter and Uranus Return cycles come around, which won't be until 2025-2026 now. The last Jupiter Return was in 2013-14, preceded by 2001, 1989-1990, 1977, 1965, 1953, 1941, 1929, 1917, 1906.... The Uranus Return Cycle = the modern saeculum, and the Return of the Crisis Climax: 2027, preceded by 1944, 1861, 1776, 1692, 1607.

In addition, in 2025-26 Neptune Returns to its position at 0 Aries when the civil war broke out (on the very same day it entered aggressive Aries) in April 1861.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAoeW5fXJYU

Specifically, the perihelion/opposition of Mars will be on October 13, 2020, while the Jupiter-Saturn conjunction will be on December 21, 2020 (the last one, on May 31, 2000, was too close to the Sun from our vantage point to be visible), the closest these two events have come together since 1860-61.  BTW, South Carolina seceded from the Union on December 20, 1860!

Numerology also enters the picture: The 2010s are a 3-decade, as were the 1920s - which largely explains why the 2010s feel so 3T-ish (this decade sure as hell feels 3T-ish to me).  The 2020s will be a 4-decade, as were the 1930s (and also the depression-marred 1840s).

The key will be the 2018 mid-term elections, which offer two things to watch: First, will the Tea Party types drain the swamp and throw the laissez-faire-ists out of office?  And second, will the Republicans gain a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate?

If the answer is Yes to the first OR No to the second, 2020 will become the realigning election - and likely, the election that touches off another civil war.

Are you kidding? This decade has crisis written all over it.
It's not the go-go 80s or 90s or even early 2000s.