Let's make fun of Trump, bash him, etc. while we can!

[Galen]

(05-04-2017, 04:29 PM)Odin Wrote:

(05-04-2017, 03:21 PM)Galen Wrote:

(05-04-2017, 11:00 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: "Someone else will pay."

Odd that you would complain about Trump doing this when this has always been the mantra of the Dims since everyone of their proposals seem to involve taking money from one group of people to pay the bills of other people.

Yes, I'm sure you and all you other sub-human Libertarian scum are orgasmic over the thought of people dying because they can't afford health care.

Not really.  You might want to investigate why medical costs are so high but then that would involve actually thinking.  Thinking is too hard so I don't actually expect you to get around to doing it.

Perhaps an example of how the working class and poor dealt with health care before the government fixed it will demonstrate to you what really happened when the progressives and the AMA got their way in the early twentieth century.





You might spend some time contemplating how government increases the costs of medical care and everything else.  You might also want to spend some time contemplating what government really is but I know that will never happen.

[Galen]

(05-05-2017, 12:29 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(05-04-2017, 04:29 PM)Odin Wrote:

(05-04-2017, 03:21 PM)Galen Wrote: Odd that you would complain about Trump doing this when this has always been the mantra of the Dims since everyone of their proposals seem to involve taking money from one group of people to pay the bills of other people.

Yes, I'm sure you and all you other sub-human Libertarian scum are orgasmic over the thought of people dying because they can't afford health care.

It's the same o same o meme from Galen and his pernicious type: the concept of social insurance never enters their heads.

Because they are so much more common in the USA than in other developed countries, our nation is stuck and cannot progress. They truly are the only reason for our regression.

You might contemplate how the fraternal societies and other social institutions actually functioned then you might realize that social insurance on a voluntary basis did actually exist at one time.  Unfortunately you are simply too stupid to handle the concept of people working out how to solve their own problems.

[Odin]

Translation: "let the poor die as long as the evil gubmit doesn't take my money!!!"

Yep, evil scum. Libertarianism isn't a valid political philosophy, it's a mere rationalization for evil. A justification for selfish, anti-social behavior. I've had it, I've fucking had it. You fucking bastards are just as evil as any god-damned Nazi or Stalinist.

I. HATE. YOU.

[pbrower2a]

(05-04-2017, 03:21 PM)Galen Wrote:

(05-04-2017, 11:00 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: "Someone else will pay."

Odd that you would complain about Trump doing this when this has always been the mantra of the Dims since everyone of their proposals seem to involve taking money from one group of people to pay the bills of other people.

Yes, we are our brothers' keepers. Responsibility is not simply of the masses toward some Master Class that lives by a lax standard of ethical behavior -- if the system is to be viable.

American capitalism is showing signs of failure because it recognizes no virtues other than elite gain and indulgence. It is on the brink of deciding that millions must die for the opulent splendor of plutocrats, executives, and political hacks.

Your concept of libertarianism is to give all power to the Master Class so that their economic and political order can best serve the rest of us. What really happens is that they make us all helpless against the worst drives in human nature.

Just as we need checks and balances against executive despotism, a wayward legislature, and a corrupt judiciary we also need checks and balances against the economic power of economic elites who think more like plantation owners than like small-scale entrepreneurs.

[Eric the Green]

(05-05-2017, 04:33 AM)Galen Wrote:

(05-05-2017, 12:29 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(05-04-2017, 04:29 PM)Odin Wrote:

(05-04-2017, 03:21 PM)Galen Wrote: Odd that you would complain about Trump doing this when this has always been the mantra of the Dims since everyone of their proposals seem to involve taking money from one group of people to pay the bills of other people.

Yes, I'm sure you and all you other sub-human Libertarian scum are orgasmic over the thought of people dying because they can't afford health care.

It's the same o same o meme from Galen and his pernicious type: the concept of social insurance never enters their heads.

Because they are so much more common in the USA than in other developed countries, our nation is stuck and cannot progress. They truly are the only reason for our regression.

You might contemplate how the fraternal societies and other social institutions actually functioned then you might realize that social insurance on a voluntary basis did actually exist at one time.  Unfortunately you are simply too stupid to handle the concept of people working out how to solve their own problems.

I may be stupid, or the fact may be that people today cannot do this on a voluntary basis. People are not angels yet, so voluntary doesn't always work. There have to be laws until all people are angels. There has not been a time when we were yet, despite some small-scale activities somewhere. The mandate is fair because it assures that everyone contributes, and that the social insurance actually exists. 

In the status quo, people did not get health care. And insurance companies were charging too much or denying coverage. So that's why Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and the Affordable Care Act exist. Business itself pressured the government for ACA, in order to save itself from bankruptcy. The best way to see that everyone gets affordable coverage, is for everyone to participate and contribute what they can. Otherwise, only a few people get stuck with the bill for everyone. This was costing too much for businesses who insured their employees. The single payer system works best. The only problem with it, is that it violates the libertarian creed.

[The Wonkette]

(05-05-2017, 04:30 AM)Galen Wrote:

(05-04-2017, 04:29 PM)Odin Wrote:

(05-04-2017, 03:21 PM)Galen Wrote:

(05-04-2017, 11:00 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: "Someone else will pay."

Odd that you would complain about Trump doing this when this has always been the mantra of the Dims since everyone of their proposals seem to involve taking money from one group of people to pay the bills of other people.

Yes, I'm sure you and all you other sub-human Libertarian scum are orgasmic over the thought of people dying because they can't afford health care.

Not really.  You might want to investigate why medical costs are so high but then that would involve actually thinking.  Thinking is too hard so I don't actually expect you to get around to doing it.

Perhaps an example of how the working class and poor dealt with health care before the government fixed it will demonstrate to you what really happened when the progressives and the AMA got their way in the early twentieth century.



You might spend some time contemplating how government increases the costs of medical care and everything else.  You might also want to spend some time contemplating what government really is but I know that will never happen.

Perhaps you might contemplate how much lifespans have increased in the past century. Medical advances, vaccinations, municipal sanitation, and access to expensive, lifesaving medical procedures through insurance, Medicare, and Medicaid all played a part, I'm sure.

[Ragnarök_62]

(05-05-2017, 02:07 PM)The Wonkette Wrote:

(05-05-2017, 04:30 AM)Galen Wrote:

(05-04-2017, 04:29 PM)Odin Wrote:

(05-04-2017, 03:21 PM)Galen Wrote: <snip>

Not really.  You might want to investigate why medical costs are so high but then that would involve actually thinking.  Thinking is too hard so I don't actually expect you to get around to doing it.




Perhaps an example of how the working class and poor dealt with health care before the government fixed it will demonstrate to you what really happened when the progressives and the AMA got their way in the early twentieth century.



You might spend some time contemplating how government increases the costs of medical care and everything else.  You might also want to spend some time contemplating what government really is but I know that will never happen.

Perhaps you might contemplate how much lifespans have increased in the past century.  Medical advances, vaccinations, municipal sanitation, and access to expensive, lifesaving medical procedures through insurance, Medicare, and Medicaid all played a part, I'm sure.

1. Galen is correct on one thing.  Government sanctioned oligopolies are one of the main drivers of high health care costs are due to assorted regulations that protect said oligopolies.  I wrote one to one of my Repug Senator about this stuff. I should be able to purchase my drugs from anywhere in a global market place. I don't want to be "protected" from "bad drugs".  Rags is a big boy and can make choices to say, buy my drugs in Canada or China, for that matter. Live by the free market, die by the free market.  If Shrerki's fucking hedge fund wants to jack up prices on the US market, then I should be able to circumvent that shit by buying my drugs from China, then so be it.

2. Government should be able to  kill off oligopolies if it wants and the market place should be able to do likewise. I demand the right to get my meds from lowest price anywhere in the world. If an oligopoly jacks up prices of there shit, then I want them to face foreign competition. Also, if an oligopoly abuses its rights, then the Federal Government has the right to revoke the charter.  There needs to be a death penalty for charter abusers. Yes, government sanctioned patents/corporate charters are a huge driver in outrageous health care costs.

3. Wonkette, why can't we just allow for more competition? Abolish the state level monopoly of health insurance companies, first.  Now, here's the big thing, would it not be true that a VAT financed Medicare for all reduce the effective costs of US labor? I think it would. If I had my way, I'd promote the VAT/Medicare for all as a way to reduce the effective cost of US labor. Payroll taxes increase the price of labor, so let's just chuck that for the aforementioned VAT, which reduces the effective cost of labor.


4. Payroll taxes are not sustainable. The number of working folks is set to fall with the ongoing Boomer retirement. That's why I support VAT as the proper funding source.

5. If we had single payer/ 1 standard for medical coding, that would save money. Insurance companies are just a useless layer of administration. With single payer, the US should fold Medicare/Medicaid/CHIP/VA stuff into a single program. I do not recall any dead Canadians or maimed Canadians due to their system.

[Eric the Green]

[Ragnarök_62]

(05-05-2017, 08:30 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

Screw Dump care man. Ya know what I'd like. I want all Repugs to be consigned to have the exact same health care that Rags would have.  I want Lankford and all the other Repugs to have the exact same health coverage I get.

Fuck Repubs.  I really hope that our loser , Lankford and all other Repugs get the exact same coverage I get under Trumpcare I get.  Damn Repugs to hell, damn that loser Ryan. I hope he gets a heart attack like his father/grand father.  Fuck Ryan. He's the real jack ass.

[Odin]

(05-05-2017, 10:32 AM)X_4AD_84 Wrote: Even I have come around to accept the notion that advanced countries have some form of "large Medicare" in place. We are the only one in this class who does not. While I will still argue that American Exceptionalism has its place, this is not an area where it applies. Interestingly, ever notice how when the Right wins an election in Western Europe, Canada or Japan, they don't talk about their medical safety net at all? At least they don't talk about removal or diminishing it. If they mention it, it's in the context of reform or improvement.

It's telling that people like Galen have to resort to propaganda YouTube videos when they are reminded that people in other developed countries like their universal healthcare systems.

[Odin]

(05-05-2017, 11:20 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote: Fuck Repubs.  I really hope that our loser , Lankford and all other Repugs get the exact same coverage I get under Trumpcare I get.  Damn Repugs to hell, damn that loser Ryan. I hope he gets a heart attack like his father/grand father.  Fuck Ryan. He's the real jack ass.

Mark my words, if this abomination passes the Senate expect terminally ill people with nothing to lose to start using "2nd Amendment Solutions" on Republican politicians.

[Eric the Green]

#4 on Trending
New Rule: The Lesser of Two Evils | Real Time with Bill Maher (HBO)

[pbrower2a]

(05-05-2017, 02:07 PM)The Wonkette Wrote:

(05-05-2017, 04:30 AM)Galen Wrote:

(05-04-2017, 04:29 PM)Odin Wrote:

(05-04-2017, 03:21 PM)Galen Wrote:

(05-04-2017, 11:00 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: "Someone else will pay."

Odd that you would complain about Trump doing this when this has always been the mantra of the Dims since everyone of their proposals seem to involve taking money from one group of people to pay the bills of other people.

Yes, I'm sure you and all you other sub-human Libertarian scum are orgasmic over the thought of people dying because they can't afford health care.

Not really.  You might want to investigate why medical costs are so high but then that would involve actually thinking.  Thinking is too hard so I don't actually expect you to get around to doing it.

Perhaps an example of how the working class and poor dealt with health care before the government fixed it will demonstrate to you what really happened when the progressives and the AMA got their way in the early twentieth century.



You might spend some time contemplating how government increases the costs of medical care and everything else.  You might also want to spend some time contemplating what government really is but I know that will never happen.

Perhaps you might contemplate how much lifespans have increased in the past century.  Medical advances, vaccinations, municipal sanitation, and access to expensive, lifesaving medical procedures through insurance, Medicare, and Medicaid all played a part, I'm sure.

Some of the technologies of medicine are more expensive than the primitive means not available. Dialysis is not a cure, but it can extend life at great cost to the payer. Cancer treatment used to be far less expensive -- and much more futile. Psychiatric treatment that can turn losers into winners isn't cheap -- but had I gotten the treatment that I needed for my condition (Asperger's) when I was young I might be living a very different life and be a big net contributor to society instead of living on the mar4gin of poverty. I am not alone at that. AIDS may not be the sure, swift killer that it once was, but it is certainly expensive. Diabetes used to be a fast-acting death sentence that it no longer is. It is now a slow-acting death sentence.

Of course, people are living longer with chronic conditions, some of them self-inflicted. Alcoholism, obesity, drugs, and cancerweed are obvious mistakes. Some of the self-inflicted conditions can be extremely expensive.

But let's not forget poverty, something whose deleterious effects the Right trivializes because poverty allegedly spurs people to work harder for what little they will get.

[Eric the Green]

7,500,000-plus views on facebook.

[Ragnarök_62]

(05-06-2017, 09:20 AM)Odin Wrote:

(05-05-2017, 11:20 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote: Fuck Repubs.  I really hope that our loser , Lankford and all other Repugs get the exact same coverage I get under Trumpcare I get.  Damn Repugs to hell, damn that loser Ryan. I hope he gets a heart attack like his father/grand father.  Fuck Ryan. He's the real jack ass.

Mark my words, if this abomination passes the Senate expect terminally ill people with nothing to lose to start using "2nd Amendment Solutions" on Republican politicians.  

Like, where are the "free enterprise" solutions like smashing down regulations that keep drug companies' monopolies'  on drugs? Drump is an idiot. Medicare for all with a VAT tax to pay for it , is the way. So,,,, yeah, go Bernie.

[Galen]

(05-06-2017, 09:16 AM)Odin Wrote:

(05-05-2017, 10:32 AM)X_4AD_84 Wrote: Even I have come around to accept the notion that advanced countries have some form of "large Medicare" in place. We are the only one in this class who does not. While I will still argue that American Exceptionalism has its place, this is not an area where it applies. Interestingly, ever notice how when the Right wins an election in Western Europe, Canada or Japan, they don't talk about their medical safety net at all? At least they don't talk about removal or diminishing it. If they mention it, it's in the context of reform or improvement.

It's telling that people like Galen have to resort to propaganda YouTube videos when they are reminded that people in other developed countries like their universal healthcare systems.

Not an argument.  Then again you have proven how little you know about history with your ability to predict the future after it happens with astrology.

[Odin]

You're getting me confused with Eric, Galen.

And pointing out how wrong your BS is simply by pointing out what people in those countries actually think IS an argument.

[David Horn]

(05-05-2017, 04:30 AM)Galen Wrote: ...  You might want to investigate why medical costs are so high but then that would involve actually thinking.  Thinking is too hard so I don't actually expect you to get around to doing it.

Perhaps an example of how the working class and poor dealt with health care before the government fixed it will demonstrate to you what really happened when the progressives and the AMA got their way in the early twentieth century.

You might spend some time contemplating how government increases the costs of medical care and everything else.  You might also want to spend some time contemplating what government really is but I know that will never happen.

The real question you ignore is, what kind of care do you want?  If 19th century care is good for you, including the dying young part of that, then you can use that model.  If you want modern medicine and the benefits it provides, then the cost structure needs to be addressed, but so does the payment structure.  I have three grandchildren who are here because they were born as preemies and lived the first weeks of their lives in a NICU.  My son and DIL had great insurance that covered the bill, which topped $1,000,000.  Most of that was the cost of using the specialty facility, which included an around the clock nursing staff and on-call specialists.  In the 19th century, they would have died, along with my DIL.

[David Horn]

(05-05-2017, 05:24 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote: ... Wonkette, why can't we just allow for more competition? Abolish the state level monopoly of health insurance companies, first...

This sounds better than it is.  Assuming that we continue with private insurance, then every insurer will need to establish provider networks to use preferentially, or the benefit of competition is lost.  Even the insurance companies are against this, because they would have to expand their support functions so greatly to manage all their providers that they would price themselves out of the markets where they might compete.  In fact, they can't handle what they currently have, and are bailing.

Single payer is still the right answer.  Even the Republicans know that, but fight it tooth and nail anyway.

[Eric the Green]

Ha ha, let's seeee; they're all lies, but which one is true? probably #10 because he has won a few, and ANY win by Trump makes me TIRED of him!