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Let's make fun of Trump, bash him, etc. while we can!
#61
(06-08-2016, 04:31 PM)Odin Wrote:
(06-08-2016, 08:04 AM)Anthony Wrote: Trump is clearly a national liberal.  He supports policies that will raise the wages and cut the taxes of the working poor - and in 21st Century (but not 20th Century) terms he is a cultural conservative: He believes in a majoritarian, Anglo-American culture to which everyone should subscribe (I'm waiting for him to openly support an "English only" bill.  I don't believe that I will have to wait very long).

Trump is a Fascist who thinks Blacks and Latinos are not "real" Americans'.

Lets hear out what makes him fascist so it is clear. There seems to be many variations on what fascism really is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism#Definitions
1984 Apollonian Civic
ISFP - The Artist.






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#62
(06-08-2016, 04:40 PM)taramarie Wrote:
(06-08-2016, 04:31 PM)Odin Wrote:
(06-08-2016, 08:04 AM)Anthony Wrote: Trump is clearly a national liberal.  He supports policies that will raise the wages and cut the taxes of the working poor - and in 21st Century (but not 20th Century) terms he is a cultural conservative: He believes in a majoritarian, Anglo-American culture to which everyone should subscribe (I'm waiting for him to openly support an "English only" bill.  I don't believe that I will have to wait very long).

Trump is a Fascist who thinks Blacks and Latinos are not "real" Americans'.

Lets hear out what makes him fascist so it is clear. There seems to be many variations on what fascism really is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism#Definitions


In my opinion labels such as fascist are much too freely used. The effect is to shut down communication.

Quote:http://www.theatlantic.com/international...st/424449/

I Know Fascists; Donald Trump Is No Fascist

… "Trump will never master the techniques laid out in 1931 by the then-fascist journalist Curzio Malaparte in his Coup D’etat: The Technique of Revolution, which detailed the clear requirements of the fascist manifesto: Seize and hold state power with a sudden attack, coordinated with cunning and force. There is no fascism without this rational, violent plan to obliterate democracy. From Hitler’s Mein Kampf to Mussolini’s speeches on the Palazzo Venezia balcony, fascists told the crowd openly what their goals were and kept a nefarious, disciplined pace to realize them. Mussolini boasted about reducing Italy’s Parliament “to a fascist barrack,” “stopping any antifascist brain from thinking,” and “creating a new Roman Empire.””…
 … whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things. Phil 4:8 (ESV)
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#63
(06-08-2016, 05:04 PM)radind Wrote:
(06-08-2016, 04:40 PM)taramarie Wrote:
(06-08-2016, 04:31 PM)Odin Wrote:
(06-08-2016, 08:04 AM)Anthony Wrote: Trump is clearly a national liberal.  He supports policies that will raise the wages and cut the taxes of the working poor - and in 21st Century (but not 20th Century) terms he is a cultural conservative: He believes in a majoritarian, Anglo-American culture to which everyone should subscribe (I'm waiting for him to openly support an "English only" bill.  I don't believe that I will have to wait very long).

Trump is a Fascist who thinks Blacks and Latinos are not "real" Americans'.

Lets hear out what makes him fascist so it is clear. There seems to be many variations on what fascism really is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism#Definitions


In my opinion labels such as fascist are much too freely used. The effect is to shut down communication.

Quote:http://www.theatlantic.com/international...st/424449/

I Know Fascists; Donald Trump Is No Fascist

… "Trump will never master the techniques laid out in 1931 by the then-fascist journalist Curzio Malaparte in his Coup D’etat: The Technique of Revolution, which detailed the clear requirements of the fascist manifesto: Seize and hold state power with a sudden attack, coordinated with cunning and force. There is no fascism without this rational, violent plan to obliterate democracy. From Hitler’s Mein Kampf to Mussolini’s speeches on the Palazzo Venezia balcony, fascists told the crowd openly what their goals were and kept a nefarious, disciplined pace to realize them. Mussolini boasted about reducing Italy’s Parliament “to a fascist barrack,” “stopping any antifascist brain from thinking,” and “creating a new Roman Empire.””…

The problem is that word loses its power when used to often. Like cry wolf. Which is why I want the people who use that word to define what that word means to them when they call him a fascist. I looked the definition up. I gather it is to overthrow the current government and create a new party. ONE party. It is well organized. Authoritarian, totalitarian and therefore a dictator.
1984 Apollonian Civic
ISFP - The Artist.






Reply
#64
(06-08-2016, 05:04 PM)radind Wrote:
(06-08-2016, 04:40 PM)taramarie Wrote:
(06-08-2016, 04:31 PM)Odin Wrote:
(06-08-2016, 08:04 AM)Anthony Wrote: Trump is clearly a national liberal.  He supports policies that will raise the wages and cut the taxes of the working poor - and in 21st Century (but not 20th Century) terms he is a cultural conservative: He believes in a majoritarian, Anglo-American culture to which everyone should subscribe (I'm waiting for him to openly support an "English only" bill.  I don't believe that I will have to wait very long).

Trump is a Fascist who thinks Blacks and Latinos are not "real" Americans'.

Lets hear out what makes him fascist so it is clear. There seems to be many variations on what fascism really is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism#Definitions


In my opinion labels such as fascist are much too freely used. The effect is to shut down communication.

Quote:http://www.theatlantic.com/international...st/424449/

I Know Fascists; Donald Trump Is No Fascist

… "Trump will never master the techniques laid out in 1931 by the then-fascist journalist Curzio Malaparte in his Coup D’etat: The Technique of Revolution, which detailed the clear requirements of the fascist manifesto: Seize and hold state power with a sudden attack, coordinated with cunning and force. There is no fascism without this rational, violent plan to obliterate democracy. From Hitler’s Mein Kampf to Mussolini’s speeches on the Palazzo Venezia balcony, fascists told the crowd openly what their goals were and kept a nefarious, disciplined pace to realize them. Mussolini boasted about reducing Italy’s Parliament “to a fascist barrack,” “stopping any antifascist brain from thinking,” and “creating a new Roman Empire.””…

IMO what makes him explicitly a Fascist rather than just a garden-variety RW Authoritarian is the "Make America Great Again" rhetoric, creating an atmosphere of scapegoating against every demographic group real and imagined seen as "bringing down America". Trump generally doesn't say such things in public, but a lot of his vocal supporters want violent suppression of Blacks, Latinos, "Femi-Nazis", "Social Justice Warriors", "Cultural Marxists" and other perceived enemies of "White Christian Culture".
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#65
(06-08-2016, 05:57 PM)Odin Wrote:
(06-08-2016, 05:04 PM)radind Wrote:
(06-08-2016, 04:40 PM)taramarie Wrote:
(06-08-2016, 04:31 PM)Odin Wrote:
(06-08-2016, 08:04 AM)Anthony Wrote: Trump is clearly a national liberal.  He supports policies that will raise the wages and cut the taxes of the working poor - and in 21st Century (but not 20th Century) terms he is a cultural conservative: He believes in a majoritarian, Anglo-American culture to which everyone should subscribe (I'm waiting for him to openly support an "English only" bill.  I don't believe that I will have to wait very long).

Trump is a Fascist who thinks Blacks and Latinos are not "real" Americans'.

Lets hear out what makes him fascist so it is clear. There seems to be many variations on what fascism really is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism#Definitions


In my opinion labels such as fascist are much too freely used. The effect is to shut down communication.

Quote:http://www.theatlantic.com/international...st/424449/

I Know Fascists; Donald Trump Is No Fascist

… "Trump will never master the techniques laid out in 1931 by the then-fascist journalist Curzio Malaparte in his Coup D’etat: The Technique of Revolution, which detailed the clear requirements of the fascist manifesto: Seize and hold state power with a sudden attack, coordinated with cunning and force. There is no fascism without this rational, violent plan to obliterate democracy. From Hitler’s Mein Kampf to Mussolini’s speeches on the Palazzo Venezia balcony, fascists told the crowd openly what their goals were and kept a nefarious, disciplined pace to realize them. Mussolini boasted about reducing Italy’s Parliament “to a fascist barrack,” “stopping any antifascist brain from thinking,” and “creating a new Roman Empire.””…

IMO what makes him explicitly a Fascist rather than just a garden-variety RW Authoritarian is the "Make America Great Again" rhetoric, creating an atmosphere of scapegoating against every demographic group real and imagined seen as "bringing down America". Trump generally doesn't say such things in public, but a lot of his vocal supporters want violent suppression of Blacks, Latinos, "Femi-Nazis", "Social Justice Warriors", "Cultural Marxists" and other perceived enemies of "White Christian Culture".

I have heard the other side and they say it is a reaction against the left wing pc culture and this is their uprising. They think they are justified and i would love to know why they feel justified tbh. To me it just looks like assholes lashing out against the control. So, maybe if there are any on this forum who support this rebellion, maybe they can speak up and give reason to what points Taylor has addressed?
1984 Apollonian Civic
ISFP - The Artist.






Reply
#66
Donald Trump is a nasty person and a horrible right-wing politician, but that is not enough to make him a fascist. he has yet to show contempt for the elected legislature; he does not promise a grand new order. Will he offend liberal sensibilities if elected? Sure -- and I think as badly as Maine Governor Paul LePage.

He has yet to establish paramilitary militias whose blind obedience will allow them to do any act of violence.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist  but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.


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#67
(06-08-2016, 06:29 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Donald Trump is a nasty person and a horrible right-wing politician, but that is not enough to make him a fascist. he has yet to show contempt for the elected legislature; he does not promise a grand new order. Will he offend liberal sensibilities if elected? Sure -- and I think as badly as Maine Governor Paul LePage.

He has yet to establish paramilitary militias whose blind obedience will allow them to do any act of violence.

He does seem to be in the process of recruiting them, or at least inviting or suggesting them to establish such a militia.

On the whole he does seem to promise a "flexible" approach to working with congress now. If he wins, though, he won't have to be too flexible. We can assume he'll have a congress that is right wing in that event; even perhaps a Republican Senate that will abolish the filibuster and go for the "nuclear option." Whatever the dear leader wants.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive;
Eric M
Reply
#68
(06-09-2016, 10:16 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:
(06-08-2016, 06:29 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Donald Trump is a nasty person and a horrible right-wing politician, but that is not enough to make him a fascist. he has yet to show contempt for the elected legislature; he does not promise a grand new order. Will he offend liberal sensibilities if elected? Sure -- and I think as badly as Maine Governor Paul LePage.

He has yet to establish paramilitary militias whose blind obedience will allow them to do any act of violence.

He does seem to be in the process of recruiting them, or at least inviting or suggesting them to establish such a militia.

On the whole he does seem to promise a "flexible" approach to working with congress now. If he wins, though, he won't have to be too flexible. We can assume he'll have a congress that is right wing in that event; even perhaps a Republican Senate that will abolish the filibuster and go for the "nuclear option." Whatever the dear leader wants.
I expect Clinton to win. However, it appears to me that most of the violence has been against Trump supporters.
 … whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things. Phil 4:8 (ESV)
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#69
(06-09-2016, 11:16 AM)radind Wrote:
(06-09-2016, 10:16 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:
(06-08-2016, 06:29 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Donald Trump is a nasty person and a horrible right-wing politician, but that is not enough to make him a fascist. he has yet to show contempt for the elected legislature; he does not promise a grand new order. Will he offend liberal sensibilities if elected? Sure -- and I think as badly as Maine Governor Paul LePage.

He has yet to establish paramilitary militias whose blind obedience will allow them to do any act of violence.

He does seem to be in the process of recruiting them, or at least inviting or suggesting them to establish such a militia.

On the whole he does seem to promise a "flexible" approach to working with congress now. If he wins, though, he won't have to be too flexible. We can assume he'll have a congress that is right wing in that event; even perhaps a Republican Senate that will abolish the filibuster and go for the "nuclear option." Whatever the dear leader wants.
I expect Clinton to win. However, it appears to me that most of the violence has been against Trump supporters.


Such violence is wrong and counter-productive, unless (God forbid!) it is staged by Trump supporters.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist  but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.


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#70
(06-09-2016, 11:16 AM)radind Wrote:
(06-09-2016, 10:16 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:
(06-08-2016, 06:29 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Donald Trump is a nasty person and a horrible right-wing politician, but that is not enough to make him a fascist. he has yet to show contempt for the elected legislature; he does not promise a grand new order. Will he offend liberal sensibilities if elected? Sure -- and I think as badly as Maine Governor Paul LePage.

He has yet to establish paramilitary militias whose blind obedience will allow them to do any act of violence.

He does seem to be in the process of recruiting them, or at least inviting or suggesting them to establish such a militia.

On the whole he does seem to promise a "flexible" approach to working with congress now. If he wins, though, he won't have to be too flexible. We can assume he'll have a congress that is right wing in that event; even perhaps a Republican Senate that will abolish the filibuster and go for the "nuclear option." Whatever the dear leader wants.
I expect Clinton to win. However, it appears to me that most of the violence has been against Trump supporters.

No, it's been on both sides. But Trump stirs it up; Sanders and Clinton do not.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive;
Eric M
Reply
#71
(06-09-2016, 10:16 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:
(06-08-2016, 06:29 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Donald Trump is a nasty person and a horrible right-wing politician, but that is not enough to make him a fascist. he has yet to show contempt for the elected legislature; he does not promise a grand new order. Will he offend liberal sensibilities if elected? Sure -- and I think as badly as Maine Governor Paul LePage.

He has yet to establish paramilitary militias whose blind obedience will allow them to do any act of violence.

He does seem to be in the process of recruiting them, or at least inviting or suggesting them to establish such a militia.

On the whole he does seem to promise a "flexible" approach to working with congress now. If he wins, though, he won't have to be too flexible. We can assume he'll have a congress that is right wing in that event; even perhaps a Republican Senate that will abolish the filibuster and go for the "nuclear option." Whatever the dear leader wants.

The polarization in American political life allows winners by even a bare majority to completely neglect the sensibilities of the Other Side. People get 90% of what they want or they get nothing.

So suppose that the GOP gets its trifecta of both Houses of Congress and a President who must then acquiesce to the will of the Republican Establishment because such still controls Congress and the President is with it 90% of the time. Shift tax burdens to the non-rich? Check! Eviscerate unions? Check! Give the rich breaks for hiring domestic servants? Check! Gut all laws involving the environment and workplace safety? Check! Abolish the minimum wage! Check! Privatize the Interstate Highway System? Check! Re-establish debtors' prisons? Check! Could an opposition stop it? Not once employers get the right to control the votes of their employees!
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist  but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.


Reply
#72
Team Taramarie, et al on the fascism discussion upthread.  The more obvious comparison is the array of nativist parties worldwide, like the UKIP, Front National, AfD, etc.  About the only truly fascist current movement I can think of is Golden Dawn in Greece.
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#73
(06-09-2016, 11:35 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:
(06-09-2016, 11:16 AM)radind Wrote:
(06-09-2016, 10:16 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:
(06-08-2016, 06:29 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Donald Trump is a nasty person and a horrible right-wing politician, but that is not enough to make him a fascist. he has yet to show contempt for the elected legislature; he does not promise a grand new order. Will he offend liberal sensibilities if elected? Sure -- and I think as badly as Maine Governor Paul LePage.

He has yet to establish paramilitary militias whose blind obedience will allow them to do any act of violence.

He does seem to be in the process of recruiting them, or at least inviting or suggesting them to establish such a militia.

On the whole he does seem to promise a "flexible" approach to working with congress now. If he wins, though, he won't have to be too flexible. We can assume he'll have a congress that is right wing in that event; even perhaps a Republican Senate that will abolish the filibuster and go for the "nuclear option." Whatever the dear leader wants.
I expect Clinton to win. However, it appears to me that most of the violence has been against Trump supporters.

No, it's been on both sides. But Trump stirs it up; Sanders and Clinton do not.

I think the "both sides" coupled with "Sanders and Clinton" represents a big misunderstanding about the recent protests we have seen such as in San Diego, San Jose, Albuquerque.

These really didn't get going until the primaries moved out to the Southwest with very prominent and vocal Hispanic populations. It is a reaction to Trump's racism.  I'm sure there are more than a few (hopefully, former) Republicans in those protests that are particularly pissed off that a racist has hijacked their party.

If Trump had come to NYC and said that the Irish are murderers and rapists, and said that anyone of Irish heritage could not judge fairly from the bench due to that heritage, we would have put his head on a spike (preferable an Orange one, wink-wink). The Irish know not to give any quarter to such an a-hole.
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#74
What is masculine about Trump? Standing up to reverse sexism.... Bill Maher has got Trump by the hair!





Meathead and Bill team up against a Cruzbot lady.

Some new rules, and finally some advice for Trump and the others who knock immigrants!
https://youtu.be/ENTrCSOI1SI
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive;
Eric M
Reply
#75
(06-09-2016, 11:35 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:
(06-09-2016, 11:16 AM)radind Wrote:
(06-09-2016, 10:16 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:
(06-08-2016, 06:29 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Donald Trump is a nasty person and a horrible right-wing politician, but that is not enough to make him a fascist. he has yet to show contempt for the elected legislature; he does not promise a grand new order. Will he offend liberal sensibilities if elected? Sure -- and I think as badly as Maine Governor Paul LePage.

He has yet to establish paramilitary militias whose blind obedience will allow them to do any act of violence.

He does seem to be in the process of recruiting them, or at least inviting or suggesting them to establish such a militia.

On the whole he does seem to promise a "flexible" approach to working with congress now. If he wins, though, he won't have to be too flexible. We can assume he'll have a congress that is right wing in that event; even perhaps a Republican Senate that will abolish the filibuster and go for the "nuclear option." Whatever the dear leader wants.
I expect Clinton to win. However, it appears to me that most of the violence has been against Trump supporters.

No, it's been on both sides. But Trump stirs it up; Sanders and Clinton do not.

Ideas and labels can have consequences. We could use more restraint and fewer labels in our attempt to dialogue.
We have a different perspective on the events.

Quote:http://www.nationalreview.com/article/43...nsequences

The Consequences of Calling Trump a Fascist Become Clear in San Jose  

… "Political violence has arisen not from the right, but from the left. Progressives are already predisposed to violence against Trump supporters as a consequence of the mindset wherein political rights are only accorded to those who ascribe to a slate of largely liberal viewpoints. Add to that the belief that your opponent is a fascist intent only on the usurpation of personal power and the destruction of the democratic system, and you get a toxic mix, one that makes the leap to justifying violence a short one indeed. As the socialist provocateur Fredrik deBoer, no friend of liberal pundits, wrote on Twitter: “Journalists with big platforms called Trump a literal fascist on the rise for months. How did you expect people to react to that?””…

… "The term “fascist” is a very, very powerful thing. Its powers extend far beyond those exerted by the words “racist” or “misogynist” or “xenophobic,” for fascists threaten not merely a specific race or sex but rather the entire polity. If pundits are to use it to describe Trump and his movement, they must be prepared to live with the consequences.”
 … whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things. Phil 4:8 (ESV)
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#76
You make some good points, Radind. But just saying "we have a different perspective" does not change the facts; in this case for example, about which candidate is stirring up violence.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive;
Eric M
Reply
#77
'You were born in a Taco Bell': Trump's rhetoric fuels school bullies across US Angry
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#78
(06-09-2016, 07:09 PM)Odin Wrote: 'You were born in a Taco Bell': Trump's rhetoric fuels school bullies across US Angry

As usual, Simpsons Did It.

[Image: A3WXlrl.jpg]
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#79
(06-09-2016, 07:08 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: You make some good points, Radind. But just saying "we have a different perspective" does not change the facts; in this case for example, about which candidate is stirring up violence.

But, the issue for me is who is actually conducting the violence. It still appears to me that most of the actual  violence is coming from some opposed to Trump.
 … whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things. Phil 4:8 (ESV)
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#80
(06-09-2016, 11:14 PM)radind Wrote:
(06-09-2016, 07:08 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: You make some good points, Radind. But just saying "we have a different perspective" does not change the facts; in this case for example, about which candidate is stirring up violence.

But, the issue for me is who is actually conducting the violence. It still appears to me that most of the actual  violence is coming from some opposed to Trump.

From what i can see Trump is a candidate who is stirring up violence and some voters both sides are both becoming more violent. I do not know where most of it is coming from. But it is coming from both sides. They are frustrated. I can understand that. It just makes it worse though.
1984 Apollonian Civic
ISFP - The Artist.






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