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Presidential election, 2016
(01-16-2017, 08:55 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:
(01-16-2017, 07:38 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: Immigration today just seems an excuse by Trump, Sessions and other such demagogues to use in order to get votes through creating fear. It has no real bearing on the fortunes of our country or the people.

That's not all of it.  Lots of illegals will provide low wage labor with no requirements for benefits.  A lot of legals are understandably resentful that the illegals are taking jobs that would otherwise be available.  A lot of employers don't want their cheap labor to go away.  I agree that some politicians are using hate to get votes, but the fortunes of lots of people are on the line.

That's true.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive;
Eric M
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(01-16-2017, 03:16 PM)Warren Dew Wrote:
(01-16-2017, 12:16 PM)David Horn Wrote: My money is on the farmers, who are overwhelmingly Republican these days.  Can't get the <insert fruit or vegetable> picked?  Scream about lack of access to farm labor. 
... and it doesn't have to be arugula or quinoa.  Lettuce will do.

The farmers in question - produce, not grain - have already lost.  They are going to be killed by the new California minimum wage law.

We'll see.  Similar predictions have proven hollow in other industries.  Of course the owners want to pay less, but that doesn't make it allowing it mandatory.
Intelligence is not knowledge and knowledge is not wisdom, but they all play well together.
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(01-16-2017, 04:10 PM)David Horn Wrote:
(01-16-2017, 03:21 PM)SomeGuy Wrote: Dave,

Quote:Odin and I have had this conversation in the past.  My upbringing was similar, albeit not in the upper Midwest. At Christmas, we still had young teenage girls running around with candles in their hair.

How is this relevant?  I am not asking him about his comments on Scandinavian-American culture, but his specific, repeated references to Woodard in this and other threads.

You are SO literal!  Chill!

I wasn't even talking to you about this!  Chill yourself!  Wink
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(01-16-2017, 04:09 PM)David Horn Wrote:
(01-16-2017, 12:49 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:
(01-16-2017, 12:16 PM)David Horn Wrote:
(01-15-2017, 01:06 PM)SomeGuy Wrote:
(01-15-2017, 11:16 AM)David Horn Wrote: I'm going with "useful tool", but it may prove a very different tool than the proponents expect.  If e-verify stands between our fresh food and immigration policy, I'm betting on food.

I dunno, Donald Trump and Jeff Sessions don't much seem like foodies to me.  You might be mistaken.  But thanks for confirming (once again) some of my long-held beliefs about yuppie liberals and their political positions.

REAL 'Murican: "We need to do somethin' about this ILLEGAL immigration!  They's breaking our laws!"
Yuppie Liberal: "Oh no, you can't crack down on that, that's racist!  Think of the poor strawberries!"  

Rolleyes
My money is on the farmers, who are overwhelmingly Republican these days.  Can't get the <insert fruit or vegetable> picked?  Scream about lack of access to farm labor. 
... and it doesn't have to be arugula or quinoa.  Lettuce will do.
I don't know of many farmers (Republican voters) who still rely on people (manual labor) to harvest their crops (wheat, corn, soybeans, potatoes, so on).

That may be true for row crops.  Most fruits and truck vegetables still need attending.

Uh, not anymore!

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/F...8.html?s=p
http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2013/07...t-farming/
http://strawberryplants.org/2010/10/stra...ing-robot/

There's now no excuse for not using E-verify.   Cool
---Value Added Cool
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Right?  That's clearly a Chinese machine.  I want to see its papers first.  Angry
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I'm watching PBS's Frontline Episode, The Divided States of America.  It seems a good review of Obama's time, how his early attempts at unity came to naught, but instead fueled the revolt of the Republican base and extreme partisanship.  It's a decent review of how we got where we are.
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(01-16-2017, 08:55 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:
(01-16-2017, 07:38 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: Immigration today just seems an excuse by Trump, Sessions and other such demagogues to use in order to get votes through creating fear. It has no real bearing on the fortunes of our country or the people.

That's not all of it.  Lots of illegals will provide low wage labor with no requirements for benefits.  A lot of legals are understandably resentful that the illegals are taking jobs that would otherwise be available.  A lot of employers don't want their cheap labor to go away.  I agree that some politicians are using hate to get votes, but the fortunes of lots of people are on the line.

A big problem is that no US citizen or resident alien trying to become a citizen is going to be a fruit or veggie picker for a wage low enough for the market to bear. Hell, a lot of people wouldn't do the job period, because it sucks. We could expand the number of migrant workers allowed in, but the Right doesn't like that. A few years ago there was a big crackdown on illegal immigrants in (IIRC) Alabama and it lead to crops rotting in the fields.
#MakeTheDemocratsGreatAgain
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(01-16-2017, 12:31 PM)David Horn Wrote:
(01-15-2017, 10:41 PM)SomeGuy Wrote: ...  You just reread American Nations or something?

Not all knowledge comes from the printed page.  Since Odin is a Minnesotan and, as you should surmise, also of Scandinavian extraction, he has first hand knowledge.  He even eats lutefisk, I'm told.

It's what I was taught in Minnesota History in school. The Scandinavians and New Englanders generally got along well, but those groups tended to annoy the Germans, especially the German Catholics.
#MakeTheDemocratsGreatAgain
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(01-18-2017, 08:30 AM)Odin Wrote:
(01-16-2017, 08:55 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:
(01-16-2017, 07:38 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: Immigration today just seems an excuse by Trump, Sessions and other such demagogues to use in order to get votes through creating fear. It has no real bearing on the fortunes of our country or the people.

That's not all of it.  Lots of illegals will provide low wage labor with no requirements for benefits.  A lot of legals are understandably resentful that the illegals are taking jobs that would otherwise be available.  A lot of employers don't want their cheap labor to go away.  I agree that some politicians are using hate to get votes, but the fortunes of lots of people are on the line.

A big problem is that no US citizen or resident alien trying to become a citizen is going to be a fruit or veggie picker for a wage low enough for the market to bear. Hell, a lot of people wouldn't do the job period, because it sucks. We could expand the number of migrant workers allowed in, but the Right doesn't like that. A few years ago there was a big crackdown on illegal immigrants in (IIRC) Alabama and it lead to crops rotting in the fields.

Exactly, Odin, think of the poor strawberries!
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The strawberries will do just fine: Convicts from nearby prisons will pick them.
"It was better with them that were slain by the sword, than with them that died with hunger, for these pined away being consumed for want of the fruits of the earth" - Lamentations 4:9
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(01-18-2017, 11:36 AM)Anthony Wrote: The strawberries will do just fine: Convicts from nearby prisons will pick them.

Problem solved: Lock them up!
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(01-18-2017, 12:21 PM)SomeGuy Wrote:
(01-18-2017, 11:36 AM)Anthony Wrote: The strawberries will do just fine: Convicts from nearby prisons will pick them.

Problem solved: Lock them up!

Yes. Sounds vaguely familiar. Ah, yes! Maybe they can get Hillary to pick some crops too! Smile
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive;
Eric M
Reply
(01-18-2017, 05:22 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:
(01-18-2017, 12:21 PM)SomeGuy Wrote:
(01-18-2017, 11:36 AM)Anthony Wrote: The strawberries will do just fine: Convicts from nearby prisons will pick them.

Problem solved: Lock them up!

Yes. Sounds vaguely familiar. Ah, yes! Maybe they can get Hillary to pick some crops too! Smile

-- good luck with that
Heart  Bernie/Tulsi 2020    Heart
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(01-18-2017, 05:22 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:
(01-18-2017, 12:21 PM)SomeGuy Wrote:
(01-18-2017, 11:36 AM)Anthony Wrote: The strawberries will do just fine: Convicts from nearby prisons will pick them.

Problem solved: Lock them up!

Yes. Sounds vaguely familiar. Ah, yes! Maybe they can get Hillary to pick some crops too! Smile

Nah, everything she touches turns to shit.  Tongue
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(01-18-2017, 08:14 PM)Marypoza Wrote:
(01-18-2017, 05:22 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:
(01-18-2017, 12:21 PM)SomeGuy Wrote:
(01-18-2017, 11:36 AM)Anthony Wrote: The strawberries will do just fine: Convicts from nearby prisons will pick them.

Problem solved: Lock them up!

Yes. Sounds vaguely familiar. Ah, yes! Maybe they can get Hillary to pick some crops too! Smile

-- good luck with that

Good luck to me? WTF do I care if these big agribusiness moguls get Hillary to pick crops for them or not, or mexican illegals, or whoever?
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive;
Eric M
Reply
(01-18-2017, 11:36 AM)Anthony Wrote: The strawberries will do just fine: Convicts from nearby prisons will pick them.

Just what we need, an incentive to imprison people! /sarcasm
#MakeTheDemocratsGreatAgain
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