Trump Trainwreck - Ongoing diary of betrayal and evil

[pbrower2a]

(01-25-2017, 12:35 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(01-24-2017, 09:31 PM)TnT Wrote:

(01-24-2017, 07:08 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Many people will have to hit bottom before they recognize what a raw deal Donald Trump is. People will need to associate the Republican Party with declining living standards, more work but less pay, environmental degradation, shattered dreams of youth, and people dying because they are priced out of medical care, and maybe loved ones returning in body bags from wars for profit  while elites flaunt extreme wealth and power.  

They get a democratic alternative or they get revolution.

Here's the trouble with that.  When the s*** hits the fan, Trump won't be blamed.  Obama will be blamed.  Hillary will be blamed. Liberals will be stereotyped, blamed and demonized.  Trump will be deployed as the pitiful victim of the left.  I truly wonder if we aren't headed for a real live civil war.

We Americans are so spoiled.  We think we are immune from the crap that happens so commonly all over the world.

You're right. Trump would be more politically immune than the previous presidents (Clinton, Bush II and Obama) who proceeded him. Civil War over what? A woman's right to choose or a transgenders right to choose his/her bathroom. When the crap hits the fan, I see an American flag with a few less stars or an America flag with the same amount of stars with new states with new names and that's about it. It's funny, I listen to Obama speak about America, it's resilience, it's heroism and the greatness that it represents as if he was speaking about us from a distance. I think to myself, yeah, we are a pretty good, we are pretty brave, we unite and stick together through serious stuff pretty well and you should be proud of us. Its to bad that you were taught to hate us so much by your mother and all her liberal friends and  associates and all the liberals surrounding you later on.

Wrong. He has made a sharp break with the ethical values and social priorities of administrations going back to Franklin Delano Roosevelt. We live in a new moral and economic universe in America. For a medical analogue, think of getting paraplegia from a vehicle crash. For the victim that is new, and it implies a much less satisfying life.

The big fault is a set of economic priorities that demand great sacrifices from nine-tenths of the people on behalf of a tiny minority of economic elitists  who recognize no responsibility toward their workers -- and elitists who want to set that system in place forever by destroying what remains of democracy. Americans will not be stupid. They will get letters from expats who send letters from countries in which a waiter makes more than does an engineer in America. Those who have contact with foreigners as bellhops and bartenders will meet foreigners who go for a skiing holiday in America because it is much cheaper, even allowing for the cost of a flight, than skiing in their own Switzerland.

I wonder how many Russian Bolsheviks had relatives in America who told them how much better life is in America -- the Bolsheviks believing that all that they had to do was to dispossess the aristocrats and plutocrats and get things far better -- even better than in America!

[Eric the Green]

Trump is shutting down the government's scientists, and shutting down the openness of our internet. These could be first steps in cementing the dictatorial powers of the oligarchy which Drumpf Chumpf represents.

[Eric the Green]

(01-25-2017, 10:36 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 08:00 AM)Odin Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 02:57 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(01-24-2017, 06:23 PM)Odin Wrote:

(01-24-2017, 02:38 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: It could also be a ploy to shift the focus from him to a bunch of self serving (highly partisan) people who are associated with the press who are supposed to be looking out for all of us instead of just looking out for themselves, their progressive views and political preference that's associated with themselves. As a general rule, I tend to put this group of so-called journalists/people on ignore. However, since the election of Trump, I've been watching this group more on CNN. The role of the press is not to promote fear and hatred of Republicans and smear Republican presidents. The role of the press is not to show political favoritism and advance gossip and personally connect itself with and emotionally attach itself to progressive movements. You are losing America which seems to be OK with you and those like yourself. You already know where you stand with me. You already know your value to me. You already know the value that I place on your side of the Democratic party. Just so you're clear of where we are at right now. You are OK with losing/cutting its ties with America and I'm OK with America losing/cutting its ties with people like you. I'm OK with us continuing towards that goal and allowing the natural process that's taking place to continue going on as well. Madonna is no longer a focal point/ primary image associated with a young teenage males wet dream. Values change with age.

You're a sucker for the Alt-Right's Orwellian narrative about actual, legitimate news being "fake news", that is what you are.

Dude, I was watching the news before you were born. I've been the watching cable news channels since you've been alive. I don't trust Democrats (I haven't trusted them for a very long time) or the liberal media (I haven't trusted them for well over a decade now) in general. I distrusted them long before the so-called Alt-Right's Orwellian narrative existed, so to speak. BTW, you have sucker written all over you. But at least, you're not a big enough sucker to surrender your gun rights.

You are LITERALLY a sucker. You voted for a actual con man who took advantage of your resentments, fear, and economic illiteracy.

Dude, you're getting funny now. I didn't vote for a job. I voted bring in/bring back and take part in creating more jobs. I'm good friends with the legal immigrant who lives on the block. I'm good friends with the black guy who owns my parents old home. I don't resent either of them. What I resent is, liberal vote hounds like you or Eric using sucker ploys around me or with me. I own a company that has brought in more income than you'll see in your lifetime. Hell, I spend more money on major equipment purchases than you make in a year. If I were economically illiterate as you say, I would have been out of business/bankrupt a long time ago.

Businessmen are among the MOST susceptible to the deception of Reaganomics and the far right. Because their foremost interest is in making money. That's always been the priority and mindset of American business. The only difference is that now we live in a "center-right" country (and under Trump/Ryan it's more like hard right) in which the business and the priority of America, is business. IOW greed.

It is typical of conservatives to say that we live in a center right country. It may indeed be that from now on; it may never recover from the Trump disaster. But if it does, it will move center-left in the 2020s. It depends what time in history you are talking about when someone says we live in a center-right country. Today it just means that we should consent to Reaganomics as the norm. But it isn't the norm at all; it's an aberration. That Americans have succumbed to it for so long does not change that.

Before Reaganomics, America had been center-left for 50 years, and also for 20 years at the start of the 20th century. The Northern USA was center-left before the Civil War and a few years afterward too. It was center-left for the first 50 years of the 19th century. It just depends what time in history you are talking about.

You have had your way for a long time. But, as the conservatives used to say in the 1960s and 1970s, our day will come.

[Eric the Green]

One possible trainwreck is the collapse of the fight against the IS. Trump is threatening to carry out his absurd policy of banning Muslims from coming to the USA. I have heard some Iraqi soldiers gripe about this. If this gets too bad, Iraq may just ask the USA to leave. That will hamper Iraqi efforts to beat the IS. And if Trump refuses to leave, and seizes Iraqi oil fields instead, then the IS is back in business big time.

[Eric the Green]

(01-25-2017, 07:07 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 03:45 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 12:35 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: ... Trump would be more politically immune than the previous presidents (Clinton, Bush II and Obama) who proceeded him. Civil War over what? A woman's right to choose or a transgenders right to choose his/her bathroom. When the crap hits the fan, I see an American flag with a few less stars or an America flag with the same amount of stars with new states with new names and that's about it. It's funny, I listen to Obama speak about America, it's resilience, it's heroism and the greatness that it represents as if he was speaking about us from a distance. I think to myself, yeah, we are a pretty good, we are pretty brave, we unite and stick together through serious stuff pretty well and you should be proud of us. Its to bad that you were taught to hate us so much by your mother and all her liberal friends and  associates and all the liberals surrounding you later on.

Unfortunately, your America is the vastly poorer half.  If it comes down a schism, don't count on doing all that well.

You assume that it is. I'm politically associated with largely middle income and above.

You and Warren make the same mistake. You judge the statistics, condition and policies of the entire country based on your own personal situation.

[Eric the Green]

(01-25-2017, 07:15 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 05:10 PM)Odin Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 03:45 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 12:35 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: ... Trump would be more politically immune than the previous presidents (Clinton, Bush II and Obama) who proceeded him. Civil War over what? A woman's right to choose or a transgenders right to choose his/her bathroom. When the crap hits the fan, I see an American flag with a few less stars or an America flag with the same amount of stars with new states with new names and that's about it. It's funny, I listen to Obama speak about America, it's resilience, it's heroism and the greatness that it represents as if he was speaking about us from a distance. I think to myself, yeah, we are a pretty good, we are pretty brave, we unite and stick together through serious stuff pretty well and you should be proud of us. Its to bad that you were taught to hate us so much by your mother and all her liberal friends and  associates and all the liberals surrounding you later on.

Unfortunately, your America is the vastly poorer half.  If it comes down a schism, don't count on doing all that well.

Given that he lives in Minnesota, if the SHTF he and I will probably be part of Canada, LMAO.

If the crap hits the fan, Canada may no longer exist as country.

The United States of America may officially become the Divided States of America, and some blue states may indeed become part of a greater Canada.

[Bronsin]

#1 What's wrong with moving to Mexico?

#2 What makes you think Canada wants all you Liberals showing up on their doorstep looking for a place to stay?

CalExit. I'm all for it.

[Eric the Green]

(01-26-2017, 12:06 AM)Bronsin Wrote: #1 What's wrong with moving to Mexico?

#2 What makes you think Canada wants all you Liberals showing up on their doorstep looking for a place to stay?

CalExit. I'm all for it.

#1 Mexico is a mess. It is screwed by the drug war which the USA has fostered with its ridiculous drug and gun laws (oppressive on the one, permissive on the other; in both cases fueling the drug war south of the border). It is a dangerous country, and has so far refused to vote far enough to the left to cure its problems.

#2. Canada is a nation on a higher level economically and socially/politically than the USA, while Mexico is on a lower level. That's why NAFTA doesn't work. Canada is more liberal than the USA, so it would not object to "liberals" from the USA joining it who probably are a little less liberal than themselves.

CalExit. I'm all for it.

[Eric the Green]

From Daily Kos:

With the new regime getting itself in place, the first and easiest thing to do is set up your propaganda WhiteHouse.gov page. Gone are references to LGBT rights and climate change. One of the new pages under the WhiteHouse.gov “Issues” section is “Standing Up For Our Law Enforcement Community.”

One of the fundamental rights of every American is to live in a safe community. A Trump Administration will empower our law enforcement officers to do their jobs and keep our streets free of crime and violence. The Trump Administration will be a law and order administration. President Trump will honor our men and women in uniform and will support their mission of protecting the public. The dangerous anti-police atmosphere in America is wrong. The Trump Administration will end it.
That’s real scary. How about a preview of the administration’s ideas on protest? On the Black Lives Matter movement?

Our job is not to make life more comfortable for the rioter, the looter, or the violent disrupter. Our job is to make life more comfortable for parents who want their kids to be able to walk the streets safely. Or the senior citizen waiting for a bus. Or the young child walking home from school.

The “violent disrupter”? When the protests start clashing with law enforcement, get ready for some new buzzwords. Maybe Trump’s concept of making “America Great Again” will include bringing back old authoritarian phrases like “agitators.”

http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/1/2...terrifying?

What would happen is what I saw even in San Jose; police get worried that protesters "might" be violent because they are associated with some group; then corner them, threaten them and even start beating them (especially if they are black and young). The 1968 term "police riot" may become part of current terminology again. They may even insert provocateurs into the protesters' ranks, as the Nixon admin did.

[Classic-Xer]

(01-25-2017, 11:58 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 07:07 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 03:45 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 12:35 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: ... Trump would be more politically immune than the previous presidents (Clinton, Bush II and Obama) who proceeded him. Civil War over what? A woman's right to choose or a transgenders right to choose his/her bathroom. When the crap hits the fan, I see an American flag with a few less stars or an America flag with the same amount of stars with new states with new names and that's about it. It's funny, I listen to Obama speak about America, it's resilience, it's heroism and the greatness that it represents as if he was speaking about us from a distance. I think to myself, yeah, we are a pretty good, we are pretty brave, we unite and stick together through serious stuff pretty well and you should be proud of us. Its to bad that you were taught to hate us so much by your mother and all her liberal friends and  associates and all the liberals surrounding you later on.

Unfortunately, your America is the vastly poorer half.  If it comes down a schism, don't count on doing all that well.

You assume that it is. I'm politically associated with largely middle income and above.

You and Warren make the same mistake. You judge the condition and policies of the entire country based on your own personal situation.

Are you saying that you're weren't doing that? Do you know why you're failing at preaching blue gospel and receiving support for government charity programs and failing to convince others of your sincerity? You can't hide your self centered behavior, your super ego or your obvious disdain for others who disagree with you. How far do we need to go? My advice, place us all on you're ignore list and post liberal stuff. Have you noticed anything different starting to happen with this forum? As I said, I'm down to one.

[Odin]

(01-25-2017, 05:39 PM)SomeGuy Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 05:12 PM)Odin Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 05:10 PM)SomeGuy Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 05:08 PM)Odin Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 03:39 PM)taramarie Wrote: Haha of course he is not going to suddenly act presidential. He is still using an unsecured android phone in the white house despite bashing Hillary of doing the same. I have a link for that btw if anyone is interested.

Well he is all over the place and I think that is due to his lying nature which qualifies him already for office as they tend to be two faced.

It shall be interesting what happens in the future. So far I see nothing good happening except for him cancelling the TPP deal.

He's tweeting about shit he sees on cable news. One of his tweets, IIRC, was him agreeing with Bill O'Reilly (a conservative pundit on Fox News) that he might need to "send in the Feds" into Chicago because of it's supposed "crime problem" (a small uptick in the violent crime rate in the last 2 years).

God help us all.

A small uptick in what was already a prodigious violent crime rate there in the South Side.  I mean, keep it in perspective, but keep it ALL in perspective.

Still much lower than 30 years ago.

And still way outside developed country norms.  Chicago had 468 murders in 2015, and 762 in 2016 (this link says 480 in 2015).  It accounted for nearly half the increase in murders in the US in 2016.  Japan by contrast had 933 in 2015, despite having 50 times more people than Chicago.  If you don't think Japan is a fair comparison, let's look at at, say, the Netherlands by murder rate.

The Netherlands - 0.9 murders per 100,000
Amsterdam - 2.3 m/100,000

Chicago in 2015, 15.6 murder per 100,000.

Even NYC is down to 2.8 or so.  Maybe something is amiss there in Chi-Town, after all?  I don't think that claiming that it still isn't QUITE as bad as the early 90s makes much sense, do you?

The answer is to end the drug war, not to turn an American city into an occupied territory. And given the polarization of society "sending in the Feds" is more likely to blow up into an outright revolt than it is to solve the problem.

[Warren Dew]

(01-26-2017, 07:56 AM)Odin Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 05:39 PM)SomeGuy Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 05:12 PM)Odin Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 05:10 PM)SomeGuy Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 05:08 PM)Odin Wrote: He's tweeting about shit he sees on cable news. One of his tweets, IIRC, was him agreeing with Bill O'Reilly (a conservative pundit on Fox News) that he might need to "send in the Feds" into Chicago because of it's supposed "crime problem" (a small uptick in the violent crime rate in the last 2 years).

God help us all.

A small uptick in what was already a prodigious violent crime rate there in the South Side.  I mean, keep it in perspective, but keep it ALL in perspective.

Still much lower than 30 years ago.

And still way outside developed country norms.  Chicago had 468 murders in 2015, and 762 in 2016 (this link says 480 in 2015).  It accounted for nearly half the increase in murders in the US in 2016.  Japan by contrast had 933 in 2015, despite having 50 times more people than Chicago.  If you don't think Japan is a fair comparison, let's look at at, say, the Netherlands by murder rate.

The Netherlands - 0.9 murders per 100,000
Amsterdam - 2.3 m/100,000

Chicago in 2015, 15.6 murder per 100,000.

Even NYC is down to 2.8 or so.  Maybe something is amiss there in Chi-Town, after all?  I don't think that claiming that it still isn't QUITE as bad as the early 90s makes much sense, do you?

The answer is to end the drug war, not to turn an American city into an occupied territory. And given the polarization of society "sending in the Feds" is more likely to blow up into an outright revolt than it is to solve the problem.

"Send in the Feds" sounds dramatic, but would probably just involve FBI  help to solve murder cases and address underlying issues.

Incidentally, Chicago's murder rate last year was not that far below its peak, which was in 1992:



The Chicago murder rate was up 24% year over year in the first 20 days of 2017, so if that continued to be true for the rest of the year, it would result in an all time high murder rate for the city.

That's what Trump was talking about.  There are all a manner of reasons why the increase might not be sustained for all of 2017, but if Trump "sends in the Feds", he can claim credit if it is not.

[SomeGuy]

(01-26-2017, 07:56 AM)Odin Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 05:39 PM)SomeGuy Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 05:12 PM)Odin Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 05:10 PM)SomeGuy Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 05:08 PM)Odin Wrote: He's tweeting about shit he sees on cable news. One of his tweets, IIRC, was him agreeing with Bill O'Reilly (a conservative pundit on Fox News) that he might need to "send in the Feds" into Chicago because of it's supposed "crime problem" (a small uptick in the violent crime rate in the last 2 years).

God help us all.

A small uptick in what was already a prodigious violent crime rate there in the South Side.  I mean, keep it in perspective, but keep it ALL in perspective.

Still much lower than 30 years ago.

And still way outside developed country norms.  Chicago had 468 murders in 2015, and 762 in 2016 (this link says 480 in 2015).  It accounted for nearly half the increase in murders in the US in 2016.  Japan by contrast had 933 in 2015, despite having 50 times more people than Chicago.  If you don't think Japan is a fair comparison, let's look at at, say, the Netherlands by murder rate.

The Netherlands - 0.9 murders per 100,000
Amsterdam - 2.3 m/100,000

Chicago in 2015, 15.6 murder per 100,000.

Even NYC is down to 2.8 or so.  Maybe something is amiss there in Chi-Town, after all?  I don't think that claiming that it still isn't QUITE as bad as the early 90s makes much sense, do you?

The answer is to end the drug war, not to turn an American city into an occupied territory. And given the polarization of society "sending in the Feds" is more likely to blow up into an outright revolt than it is to solve the problem.

That's the answer?  Legalize all drugs and everything will be fine?  The sole explanation for Chicago's (as opposed to NYC or elsewhere) soaring murder rate?

That's quite a leap in logic you're making there, Odin.  How do you figure?

[SomeGuy]

Quote:Ambassador Stevens being killed in a fire that results from a benign-looking protest (it was about a horrid movie that did more to offend than entertain or educate) was a tragedy. 

There were no protests outside the consulate that day.

Fake News strikes again! 

[pbrower2a]

(01-26-2017, 01:28 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 11:58 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 07:07 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 03:45 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 12:35 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: ... Trump would be more politically immune than the previous presidents (Clinton, Bush II and Obama) who proceeded him. Civil War over what? A woman's right to choose or a transgenders right to choose his/her bathroom. When the crap hits the fan, I see an American flag with a few less stars or an America flag with the same amount of stars with new states with new names and that's about it. It's funny, I listen to Obama speak about America, it's resilience, it's heroism and the greatness that it represents as if he was speaking about us from a distance. I think to myself, yeah, we are a pretty good, we are pretty brave, we unite and stick together through serious stuff pretty well and you should be proud of us. Its to bad that you were taught to hate us so much by your mother and all her liberal friends and  associates and all the liberals surrounding you later on.

Unfortunately, your America is the vastly poorer half.  If it comes down a schism, don't count on doing all that well.

You assume that it is. I'm politically associated with largely middle income and above.

You and Warren make the same mistake. You judge the condition and policies of the entire country based on your own personal situation.

Are you saying that you're weren't doing that? Do you know why you're failing at preaching blue gospel and receiving support for government charity programs and failing to convince others of your sincerity? You can't hide your self centered behavior, your super ego or your obvious disdain for others who disagree with you. How far do we need to go? My advice, place us all on you're ignore list and post liberal stuff. Have you noticed anything different starting to happen with this forum? As I said, I'm down to one.

We "leftists" still have the First Amendment and expect to use it. We believe that we can show ourselves more coherent, honest, open, and fair than the Trump Administration. A President who keeps harping on the magnitude of his election despite it being the weakest mandate of mass popularity in more than a century and who insists that he can shape the official science to his will find his credibility vanishing quickly.

Do we claim to be flawless? Hardly, at least as persons. Some of us are alcoholics. Some of us are as greedy as the most rapacious plutocrat, except that we lack the means of achieving our greed (not well that materialism usually goes when one is successful. People under economic distress have serious needs to meet).  Some of us are sex fiends. Some of us neglect family ties. Some of us are lazy and improvident. Some of us show little loyalty to the communities in which we live. Some of us are simply stupid. But we can and must live with that.

On the whole we need a government that reflects the values of Americans. Most of us respect science because science has solved many problems in the past and created few. (It's with engineering and technology that we get into trouble, as when we cut corners or make decisions made solely for profit -- thus collapses of buildings and bridges and with such monstrosities as DDT and thalidomide). Most Americans value education for its practical value. Most of us recognize the need for probity in business dealings and for rationality in personal conduct. Most of us recognize that there is more to life than material gain and indulgence. Most of us have no use for ethnic, religious, or now sexual animus. We fare best when the political leadership promotes the best in our character, or as Abraham Lincoln put it, "the better angels of our nature" instead of our basest drives.

...the virtue of our Presidential republic is that a President and Congress get plenty of time in which to enact the will of the People as expressed in the latest election. The vice is that we can have far too long a time in which to maintain an absolute failure. Donald Trump is so far even worse than I expected in my worst-case scenario, and not only in rejecting my agenda. Could he be worse? Who knows? He might install a literal harem in the White House, so far as I can tell in view of his "grab them by the p---y" verbiage. But that would be a cultural offense. Committing war crimes? He has already shown proclivities to do so. Donald Trump, the final piece in the establishment of the sort of government to fit the dreams of the Tea Party Movement, may allow the permanent entrenchment of the power of people who see the sole purpose of government as the indulgence and enforcement of their will.... forever.

The ultimate check and balance upon despotism in America is the wisdom of the People, an unwillingness to accept leaders of vile character. The Electoral College gave us the vilest leader in American history. Donald Trump is a bigger philanderer than Bill Clinton ever was, but we could live with that. In fact, should he install a harem in the White House he might be so distracted that he might do less damage to America. Sex in the Oval Office with some failed starlet (rhymes with "harlot") might offend our sensibilities, but it would be far better than ordering the plunder of a partially-occupied country. Hmm.

Donald Trump reflects that America has some scorpions in too many American souls. Someone that awful can do so much damage that the aftermath can require major reforms of many of the political structures and even the educational system, the latter so that we be no longer vulnerable to so base a demagogue.

[Eric the Green]

(01-26-2017, 01:28 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 11:58 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 07:07 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 03:45 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 12:35 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: ... Trump would be more politically immune than the previous presidents (Clinton, Bush II and Obama) who proceeded him. Civil War over what? A woman's right to choose or a transgenders right to choose his/her bathroom. When the crap hits the fan, I see an American flag with a few less stars or an America flag with the same amount of stars with new states with new names and that's about it. It's funny, I listen to Obama speak about America, it's resilience, it's heroism and the greatness that it represents as if he was speaking about us from a distance. I think to myself, yeah, we are a pretty good, we are pretty brave, we unite and stick together through serious stuff pretty well and you should be proud of us. Its to bad that you were taught to hate us so much by your mother and all her liberal friends and  associates and all the liberals surrounding you later on.

Unfortunately, your America is the vastly poorer half.  If it comes down a schism, don't count on doing all that well.

You assume that it is. I'm politically associated with largely middle income and above.

You and Warren make the same mistake. You judge the condition and policies of the entire country based on your own personal situation.

Are you saying that you're weren't doing that? Do you know why you're failing at preaching blue gospel and receiving support for government charity programs and failing to convince others of your sincerity? You can't hide your self centered behavior, your super ego or your obvious disdain for others who disagree with you. How far do we need to go? My advice, place us all on you're ignore list and post liberal stuff. Have you noticed anything different starting to happen with this forum? As I said, I'm down to one.

Of course I'm not doing that; neither are most liberals. They understand that what is best for the whole is best for the individual. You guys reverse that: what's good for you personally is good for the whole, whether there's any link between your personal fortunes and political policies or not. When you have no basis for disagreeing with me, resorting to insults against me instead does not win your argument.

You fail again to understand social insurance, and you call it charity.

[David Horn]

(01-25-2017, 04:30 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: You view him as a conman and a crook. Correct me if I'm wrong. I view you him as a pretty good businessman and a decent person.

Many of Trump's vendors have had to sue him to get paid, and most got stiffed for some or all they were owed.  Just saying.

[David Horn]

(01-25-2017, 05:10 PM)SomeGuy Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 05:08 PM)Odin Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 03:39 PM)taramarie Wrote: Haha of course he is not going to suddenly act presidential. He is still using an unsecured android phone in the white house despite bashing Hillary of doing the same. I have a link for that btw if anyone is interested.

Well he is all over the place and I think that is due to his lying nature which qualifies him already for office as they tend to be two faced.

It shall be interesting what happens in the future. So far I see nothing good happening except for him cancelling the TPP deal.

He's tweeting about shit he sees on cable news. One of his tweets, IIRC, was him agreeing with Bill O'Reilly (a conservative pundit on Fox News) that he might need to "send in the Feds" into Chicago because of it's supposed "crime problem" (a small uptick in the violent crime rate in the last 2 years).

God help us all.

A small uptick in what was already a prodigious violent crime rate there in the South Side.  I mean, keep it in perspective, but keep it ALL in perspective.

They should welcome a wide-open review of the entire problem, because I doubt it has a simple cause.  Yes, the gangs ... I know that.  But they also have incredibly easy access to guns, because Illinois is really gun friendly.  Then again, the place has lost a lot of good jobs for the blue collar class, and those jobs are gone for good. 

In any case, it would be the kind of sociological study that might open eyes.

[Ragnarök_62]

Source: https://justicedemocrats.com

platform Wrote:It’s time to face the facts: the Democratic Party is broken and the corporate, establishment wing of the party is responsible. Republicans now hold most state legislatures, most governorships, the House of Representatives, the Senate, and the presidency. So in 2018, hundreds of Justice Democrats will run a unified campaign to replace every corporate-backed member of Congress and rebuild the party from scratch. This is our plan.
Pass a constitutional amendment to put an end to Washington corruption and bring about election reform. Super PACs should be banned, private donations to politicians and campaigns should be banned, and a clean public financing system should be implemented to end the takeover of our government by corporations and billionaires. Americans deserve free and fair elections – free from the corruption of big money donors. The Supreme Court has effectively legalized bribery. It’s time for an Article 5 convention to take our democracy back from the brink of oligarchy. Prior to passing this amendment, all members of the Justice Party should reject billionaire and corporate donations when running for office to show the American people we don’t just talk the talk, we walk the walk. Ranked choice voting should also be implemented to make smaller parties a viable option. All provisions of the voting rights act should be reinstated, and gerrymandering for partisan gain should be banned.
Re-regulate Wall Street and hold white-collar criminals accountable. Despite engaging in systemic fraud and causing a subprime mortgage meltdown and the great recession, you can count the people from Wall Street who are in prison for their crimes on one hand. It’s time to prosecute the criminals, bring back Glass-Steagall, and re-regulate Wall Street to prevent another crash. Prison is not just for the poor and the middle class anymore. We will have cops on Wall Street, not just Main Street.

Quote:It’s time for an Article 5 convention to take our Democracy back from the brink of Oligarchy.

End billionaire and corporate tax dodging, fix the system to benefit middle-class and poor people. Corporations dodge $450 billion a year in taxes by using offshore tax havens. We should end this injustice, as well as chain the capital gains tax to the income tax, increase the estate tax, and implement the Buffet rule so that no millionaire CEO pays less in taxes than his or her secretary. It’s time for a tax system that benefits the middle-class and the poor, and makes the top 1% and multinational corporations pay their fair share.
Defend free speech and expression. We support the right to express unpopular opinions without fear of censorship. We support free speech on college campuses. The marketplace of ideas should be embraced. A vibrant debate is healthy for democracy, and we should cherish our first amendment. We also support net neutrality for a free and open internet.
Oppose bigotry. We must speak out against racism, sexism, xenophobia, and all forms of bigotry. Non-discrimination protections that currently apply to race, religion, and gender should be expanded to include the LGBTQ community and the atheist community. Making all Americans equal is not asking for special privileges, it’s asking for the rule of law – justice and equality for all as outlined in the United States Constitution.
Make the minimum wage a living wage and tie it to inflation. This is about justice and basic human decency. If you work hard and you work full time you shouldn’t live in poverty.
Ensure universal healthcare as a right. The United States should catch up to every other modern nation and implement a single-payer, medicare-for-all system. There’s no reason we can’t be #1 in the world instead of #37. It’s time to end the destruction of American healthcare by rapacious, price gouging, for-profit, private health insurance middlemen.
Ensure universal education as a right. Educating the citizenry of a nation pays dividends in the long run, with the economy getting back much more than is initially put in. Crushing student debt for higher education would no longer burden young men and women trying to improve their lives through hard work. We should strive to have the best education system in the world.

Quote:In 2018, hundreds of Justice Democrats are going to run a unified campaign to replace every corporate-backed member of Congress

End unnecessary wars and nation building. The United States maintains 800 military bases worldwide at a cost of $100 billion a year, this is money that can be spent at home creating jobs, rebuilding infrastructure, and investing in the future of the people. The disastrous war in Iraq cost trillions, the war in Afghanistan is 15 years in with no end in sight, and we’re currently bombing 7 different countries. We spend more on our military than the next 8 countries combined. Despite countless lives lost and destroyed, terrorism has only gotten worse. It’s time to end the wars and the perverse monetary-incentive structure that makes politicians flippant about sending young men and women to die. Unilateral U.S. military force should only be used as a last resort to defend the nation. The current budget could be cut drastically if we used our department of defense for what it was intended – defending us, instead of waging interventionist wars.
End the failed war on drugs. The goal is legalization, taxation, and regulation. Prohibition only makes drug cartels more powerful, increases crime, and makes drugs more dangerous due to lack of enforced safety standards. What you put in your body is your own business, and your right. A free society should allow individuals to make their own choices about their bodies. While most users are recreational and moderate, rehabilitation and treatment should be available for people struggling with addiction. Additionally, those serving time for non-violent drug offenses should be pardoned.
Create the new new deal. Our infrastructure gets a grade of D from the Society of Civil Engineers. The government should invest billions in rebuilding our crumbling roads, bridges, schools, levees, airports etc. There’s no reason why we can’t have the world’s #1 infrastructure.
Create the renewable energy revolution. Scientists are sounding the alarm on climate change. In order to avoid the worst case scenario and a dystopian future we need a massive green revolution. It’s time to drastically and immediately move away from fossil fuels and develop the technologies of the future. This will be a giant boon to both the private and public sector, as well as a necessary response to a global crisis. We can and we must be #1 in sustainable energy production in the world.
Block the TPP and all outsourcing deals that will further damage the middle-class. As a result of NAFTA, CAFTA, PNTR with China and the WTO, Americans have lost millions of decent paying jobs. It’s time to end the race to the bottom and renegotiate these rigged deals that only benefit elites. We should not sacrifice our sovereignty, the only people who are allowed to make laws for the United States should be the American people, not multinational corporations.
End Constitutional overreaches. Ban the NSA from bulk data-collection and warrantless spying. Shut down Guantanamo Bay and all extrajudicial prisons. Prosecute torturers and those who violated the Geneva Conventions, Nuremberg Tribunal, International law and US law. Return habeas corpus and due process. Pardon whistleblowers like Edward Snowden. We shouldn’t be leading from behind on human rights, we must be the home of liberty. We should practice the values we preach.

Quote:It’s time to end the destruction of American healthcare by rapacious, price gouging, for-profit, private health insurance middlemen.

Ban arming human rights violators. We recently gave Saudi Arabia billions in weapons and watched the civilian death toll in their vicious bombing campaign in Yemen tick up. We continue sending Egypt arms as they violently crack down on peaceful protesters. Israel received $38 billion in aid and promptly announced new settlements. The first step to peace is not enabling nations who regularly violate international law. We must be bold enough to stand up to human rights violators who aren’t just our enemies, but our allies. We don’t weaken our allies by holding them accountable, we strengthen them.
Enact common-sense gun regulation. 92% of Americans want expanded background checks, 54% want a ban on assault weapons, and 54% want a ban on high capacity magazines. This should be implemented along with a federal gun buyback program to cut down on the 300+ million firearms in circulation. Over 30,000 Americans die every year from gun violence, including over 10,000 homicides. The time to act is now to address this public health crisis.
Ensure paid vacation time, sick time, maternity leave, childcare. The United States is one of just three countries in the world that doesn’t offer paid maternity leave, the others being Oman and Papua New Guinea. We are the only industrialized nation that doesn’t offer paid vacation time. This should be changed immediately.
Abolish the death penalty. Humans are fallible, we’ll never get the right answer 100% of the time. 4% of the people on death row are not guilty of a crime and have been wrongly convicted. A system that puts innocent people to death is indefensible and should be reformed. We want justice for the American people but killing innocent people on death row is the exact opposite.
Defend and protect women’s rights. We support the Paycheck Fairness Act. We oppose Republican cuts to Planned Parenthood and women’s health clinics all across the country. In 2016 alone, 60 TRAP laws targeting abortion were passed in 19 states. We will vigorously oppose all efforts to dismantle reproductive rights.
Enact police reform. We believe in the core idea of policing – to serve and protect the community. Police are a vital part of American society and that is why it’s so important to reform the system to make it serve all Americans. For-profit policing should be abolished, police training should be retooled to emphasize deescalation tactics, and body cameras should be mandatory on all officers. Furthermore, community oversight boards should be created and broken windows policing should be eliminated. Stop & frisk – which disproportionately targets blacks and latinos 87% of the time – has a 97% failure rate. On top of being discriminatory and ineffective, it’s also unconstitutional and should be ended. Special prosecutors must also be appointed to hold police accountable.

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These ideas represent what the Democratic Party was supposed to represent all along. Opinion polls in the United States demonstrate that these policy positions are overwhelmingly popular. Indeed, throughout the industrialized world these ideas are considered moderate.
This is a movement about freedom and justice. And it’s a movement by and for working people. If the Democrats refuse to embrace this platform, they’ll continue to lose, either to Republicans or to us. The future of the Democratic party is the Justice wing, not the establishment wing.

Not bad.  Just a small quibble about the gunz obsession which is better left to the several states.



https://justicedemocrats.com/nominate/   <-  Eric and Marypoza here y'all go.  I found y'alls calling.

[Odin]

(01-26-2017, 11:05 AM)SomeGuy Wrote: That's the answer?  Legalize all drugs and everything will be fine?  The sole explanation for Chicago's (as opposed to NYC or elsewhere) soaring murder rate?

That's quite a leap in logic you're making there, Odin.  How do you figure?

The deaths are mostly gang violence, where do you think the gangs make their money from? IIRC a year ago there was a crackdown on gang leaders in Chicago which disrupted the balance of power among the gangs there and that is why the violence spiked.