Trump Trainwreck - Ongoing diary of betrayal and evil

[David Horn]

(01-25-2017, 07:50 AM)Odin Wrote: I'll trust anything in the New York Times or Washington Post, or reported on NPR or the BBC more than non-mainstream "news" sites.

Me too.  That's not to say that reading material that disagrees with the mainstream isn't a wise move.  The WSJ gives the moneyed elite POV, and any of the many conservative regional newspapers are good for the hoi polloi version.  I read those; avoid the WSJ.

[David Horn]

(01-25-2017, 08:34 AM)SomeGuy Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 08:03 AM)Odin Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 07:52 AM)SomeGuy Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 07:50 AM)Odin Wrote:

(01-24-2017, 06:32 PM)SomeGuy Wrote: I dunno, Odin, lots of "fake news" in the MSM, too.  Didn't you know that you're more likely to get raped in college than in a Darfur refugee camp? 

On broken glass, no less.

I'll trust anything in the New York Times or Washington Post, or reported on NPR or the BBC more than non-mainstream "news" sites.

Which is exactly why you believe silly things like that.

As opposed to silly things like 5 million illegals voting?

I don't remember ever claiming that.  Not that there is any evidence to say it didn't happen, I don't remember anyone doing a recount in places like California more likely to have that as an issue.  So, I have no present opinion on whether or not it happened.  Wouldn't surprise me one way or another if anybody dug into it and we got some more light on the claim.

Probably a healthier attitude to take than blindly announcing one's allegiance to one set of "facts" or another.

Give me a break.  Show me one case where the obtuse press has made a claim about something of substance that could be proven?  Forget proven, I'll accept viable.

[David Horn]

(01-25-2017, 09:53 AM)Marypoza Wrote: -- Some Guy, Odin is a $hillhoe. Ignore him. Unless you're playing with him. Then by all means have fun

Oh yes, you are so pure butter won't melt in your mouth, nor will you ever vote for a winner.  Politics is messy, and smelly compromises are part of the game. FWIW, I doubt Bernie would have lived-up to your standards if he gotten elected.

[David Horn]

(01-25-2017, 01:26 PM)SomeGuy Wrote: Isn't every election a form of gamble?  Fail to see the cynicism in most of what you listed, but by all means, attach your "Cold-AND-Prickly!" emotional signifiers if you like.


Also, polity refers to a political entity, the word you were look for is simply politics.  Don't use words if you don't know what they mean. 

Who elected you grammar Nazi?

[Classic-Xer]

(01-25-2017, 01:10 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote: Besides voters who fell for the con man, there is another type of voter.

The type I speak of is not a sucker at all. But this type is cynical and very opportunist.

To be fair, these types exist on both the Right and the Left.

What we saw in 2016 was this type of cynical voter, if they happened to be from a camp who feature:
- Resentment of feminism (e.g. belief that some feminists are feminazis - and to be fair, there is a grain of truth to this)
- Resentment of focus on the rights of some very minuscule and marginal classes - transgender, etc.
- Concern, some of it rightful, about certain aspects of Obama's policies - such as over focus on "big event" gun incidents in spite of overall stats about gun usage, aforementioned trans rights, gay marriage, TPP, Dream Act, certain statements about illegal aliens (actual deportations notwithstanding), etc.
- Rightful anger about how globalization left behind vast swaths of middle class people especially away from the coasts
- Anger about how much we spend in other countries be it aid or war fighting, meanwhile our infrastructure is heading the wrong direction
- Plus numerous other points.

That cynical voter heard among Trump's "big splash" style of bombast, kernels of policy which flew in the face of the Obama agenda and the presumed Clinton one, in a highly politically incorrect manner, similar to hard hats drinking at a dive bar and talking smack. That cynical voter determined that Trump would be like an inoculation to "the system" which might result in better health. That cynical voter has not recovered from The Great Recession, or, if not among the actual affected, has some form of polity that hates liberalism and especially neoliberalism. That voter said, what the heck, give it a try.

So it was not a case of being suckered. It was something a lot darker than that. A type of gambling. Gambling with our nation.

You view him as a conman and a crook. Correct me if I'm wrong. I view you him as a pretty good businessman and a decent person. What/who scared you the most about Trump? You made a radical switch of political alliance. What caused you to make radical switch? What did you view as being the important thing that you viewed at stake? For me, the most important thing at stake was keeping the supreme court in balance. Regardless of what the liberals believe of themselves, we are a center-right country which this country proved and the court should what the country is and not what the liberals would like to turn it into with the use of judicial force.

You've seen my mentality and you recognize my mentality. Would it be correct for me to say that I have street smart fighter's mentality that you've seen before, fought with before and had grown to recognize and respect because its similar to one that you had at a younger age? Do you think that you and I could openly speak if we were left alone and not interfered with or rudely disrupted by other posters? You seem genuine and sincere. I worked with a bunch of white guys your age in a warehouse when I was a senior high in high school. I was the youngest employee who worked there at the time. A rugged group of white working class kids from St. Paul. A take a gulp at first sight moment, when first viewed through the eyes of an eighteen year suburban teenager. I'm not baiting you. I respect your willingness to present an honest and open opinion. I'm tired of Eric , PB and other snowflakes always getting in the way/disrupting/inserting falsehoods which reduces the chances of open/honest dialogue.

[SomeGuy]

(01-25-2017, 03:51 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 07:50 AM)Odin Wrote: I'll trust anything in the New York Times or Washington Post, or reported on NPR or the BBC more than non-mainstream "news" sites.

Me too.  That's not to say that reading material that disagrees with the mainstream isn't a wise move.  The WSJ gives the moneyed elite POV, and any of the many conservative regional newspapers are good for the hoi polloi version.  I read those; avoid the WSJ.

Yeah, I still make an effort to read the some of the mainstream press, especially ones I don't necessarily agree with, but I don't recommend blanket acceptance of anything, marquis label or no.

[SomeGuy]

Quote:Give me a break.  Show me one case where the obtuse press has made a claim about something of substance that could be proven?  Forget proven, I'll accept viable.

The obtuse press?  To whom do you refer?
If you're responding to that specific claim, vis illegal immigrants voting (which I did not make), it seems like a provable statement.  Recount the votes, scrutinize the voter rolls... it's at least as provable as what they did the recounts in Wisconsin for. 

[SomeGuy]

Quote:Who elected you grammar Nazi?

Does one really ELECT a grammar Nazi?  I mean, I suppose you could, but really, I prefer to think of it as more of a putsch type of thing. 


Besides, it's a question of semantics more than one of syntax, so "grammar" Nazi wouldn't be right.  I think what you meant to say was...

[Odin]

(01-25-2017, 09:53 AM)Marypoza Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 08:34 AM)SomeGuy Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 08:03 AM)Odin Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 07:52 AM)SomeGuy Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 07:50 AM)Odin Wrote: I'll trust anything in the New York Times or Washington Post, or reported on NPR or the BBC more than non-mainstream "news" sites.

Which is exactly why you believe silly things like that.

As opposed to silly things like 5 million illegals voting?

I don't remember ever claiming that.  Not that there is any evidence to say it didn't happen, I don't remember anyone doing a recount in places like California more likely to have that as an issue.  So, I have no present opinion on whether or not it happened.  Wouldn't surprise me one way or another if anybody dug into it and we got some more light on the claim.

Probably a healthier attitude to take than blindly announcing one's allegiance to one set of "facts" or another.

-- Some Guy, Odin is a $hillhoe. Ignore him. Unless you're playing with him. Then by all means have fun

Are you accusing me of being a paid shill?

[Odin]

(01-25-2017, 03:39 PM)taramarie Wrote: Haha of course he is not going to suddenly act presidential. He is still using an unsecured android phone in the white house despite bashing Hillary of doing the same. I have a link for that btw if anyone is interested.

Well he is all over the place and I think that is due to his lying nature which qualifies him already for office as they tend to be two faced.

It shall be interesting what happens in the future. So far I see nothing good happening except for him cancelling the TPP deal.

He's tweeting about shit he sees on cable news. One of his tweets, IIRC, was him agreeing with Bill O'Reilly (a conservative pundit on Fox News) that he might need to "send in the Feds" into Chicago because of it's supposed "crime problem" (a small uptick in the violent crime rate in the last 2 years).

God help us all.

[Odin]

(01-25-2017, 03:45 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 12:35 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: ... Trump would be more politically immune than the previous presidents (Clinton, Bush II and Obama) who proceeded him. Civil War over what? A woman's right to choose or a transgenders right to choose his/her bathroom. When the crap hits the fan, I see an American flag with a few less stars or an America flag with the same amount of stars with new states with new names and that's about it. It's funny, I listen to Obama speak about America, it's resilience, it's heroism and the greatness that it represents as if he was speaking about us from a distance. I think to myself, yeah, we are a pretty good, we are pretty brave, we unite and stick together through serious stuff pretty well and you should be proud of us. Its to bad that you were taught to hate us so much by your mother and all her liberal friends and  associates and all the liberals surrounding you later on.

Unfortunately, your America is the vastly poorer half.  If it comes down a schism, don't count on doing all that well.

Given that he lives in Minnesota, if the SHTF he and I will probably be part of Canada, LMAO.

[SomeGuy]

(01-25-2017, 05:08 PM)Odin Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 03:39 PM)taramarie Wrote: Haha of course he is not going to suddenly act presidential. He is still using an unsecured android phone in the white house despite bashing Hillary of doing the same. I have a link for that btw if anyone is interested.

Well he is all over the place and I think that is due to his lying nature which qualifies him already for office as they tend to be two faced.

It shall be interesting what happens in the future. So far I see nothing good happening except for him cancelling the TPP deal.

He's tweeting about shit he sees on cable news. One of his tweets, IIRC, was him agreeing with Bill O'Reilly (a conservative pundit on Fox News) that he might need to "send in the Feds" into Chicago because of it's supposed "crime problem" (a small uptick in the violent crime rate in the last 2 years).

God help us all.

A small uptick in what was already a prodigious violent crime rate there in the South Side.  I mean, keep it in perspective, but keep it ALL in perspective.

[Odin]

(01-25-2017, 05:10 PM)SomeGuy Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 05:08 PM)Odin Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 03:39 PM)taramarie Wrote: Haha of course he is not going to suddenly act presidential. He is still using an unsecured android phone in the white house despite bashing Hillary of doing the same. I have a link for that btw if anyone is interested.

Well he is all over the place and I think that is due to his lying nature which qualifies him already for office as they tend to be two faced.

It shall be interesting what happens in the future. So far I see nothing good happening except for him cancelling the TPP deal.

He's tweeting about shit he sees on cable news. One of his tweets, IIRC, was him agreeing with Bill O'Reilly (a conservative pundit on Fox News) that he might need to "send in the Feds" into Chicago because of it's supposed "crime problem" (a small uptick in the violent crime rate in the last 2 years).

God help us all.

A small uptick in what was already a prodigious violent crime rate there in the South Side.  I mean, keep it in perspective, but keep it ALL in perspective.

Still much lower than 30 years ago.

[SomeGuy]

(01-25-2017, 05:12 PM)Odin Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 05:10 PM)SomeGuy Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 05:08 PM)Odin Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 03:39 PM)taramarie Wrote: Haha of course he is not going to suddenly act presidential. He is still using an unsecured android phone in the white house despite bashing Hillary of doing the same. I have a link for that btw if anyone is interested.

Well he is all over the place and I think that is due to his lying nature which qualifies him already for office as they tend to be two faced.

It shall be interesting what happens in the future. So far I see nothing good happening except for him cancelling the TPP deal.

He's tweeting about shit he sees on cable news. One of his tweets, IIRC, was him agreeing with Bill O'Reilly (a conservative pundit on Fox News) that he might need to "send in the Feds" into Chicago because of it's supposed "crime problem" (a small uptick in the violent crime rate in the last 2 years).

God help us all.

A small uptick in what was already a prodigious violent crime rate there in the South Side.  I mean, keep it in perspective, but keep it ALL in perspective.

Still much lower than 30 years ago.

And still way outside developed country norms.  Chicago had 468 murders in 2015, and 762 in 2016 (this link says 480 in 2015).  It accounted for nearly half the increase in murders in the US in 2016.  Japan by contrast had 933 in 2015, despite having 50 times more people than Chicago.  If you don't think Japan is a fair comparison, let's look at at, say, the Netherlands by murder rate.

The Netherlands - 0.9 murders per 100,000
Amsterdam - 2.3 m/100,000

Chicago in 2015, 15.6 murder per 100,000.

Even NYC is down to 2.8 or so.  Maybe something is amiss there in Chi-Town, after all?  I don't think that claiming that it still isn't QUITE as bad as the early 90s makes much sense, do you?

[Eric the Green]

(01-25-2017, 04:30 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 01:10 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote: Besides voters who fell for the con man, there is another type of voter.

The type I speak of is not a sucker at all. But this type is cynical and very opportunist.

To be fair, these types exist on both the Right and the Left.

What we saw in 2016 was this type of cynical voter, if they happened to be from a camp who feature:
- Resentment of feminism (e.g. belief that some feminists are feminazis - and to be fair, there is a grain of truth to this)
- Resentment of focus on the rights of some very minuscule and marginal classes - transgender, etc.
- Concern, some of it rightful, about certain aspects of Obama's policies - such as over focus on "big event" gun incidents in spite of overall stats about gun usage, aforementioned trans rights, gay marriage, TPP, Dream Act, certain statements about illegal aliens (actual deportations notwithstanding), etc.
- Rightful anger about how globalization left behind vast swaths of middle class people especially away from the coasts
- Anger about how much we spend in other countries be it aid or war fighting, meanwhile our infrastructure is heading the wrong direction
- Plus numerous other points.

That cynical voter heard among Trump's "big splash" style of bombast, kernels of policy which flew in the face of the Obama agenda and the presumed Clinton one, in a highly politically incorrect manner, similar to hard hats drinking at a dive bar and talking smack. That cynical voter determined that Trump would be like an inoculation to "the system" which might result in better health. That cynical voter has not recovered from The Great Recession, or, if not among the actual affected, has some form of polity that hates liberalism and especially neoliberalism. That voter said, what the heck, give it a try.

So it was not a case of being suckered. It was something a lot darker than that. A type of gambling. Gambling with our nation.

You view him as a conman and a crook. Correct me if I'm wrong. I view you him as a pretty good businessman and a decent person. What/who scared you the most about Trump? You made a radical switch of political alliance. What caused you to make radical switch? What did you view as being the important thing that you viewed at stake? For me, the most important thing at stake was keeping the supreme court in balance. Regardless of what the liberals believe of themselves, we are a center-right country which this country proved and the court should what the country is and not what the liberals would like to turn it into with the use of judicial force.

You've seen my mentality and you recognize my mentality. Would it be correct for me to say that I have street smart fighter's mentality that you've seen before, fought with before and had grown to recognize and respect because its similar to one that you had at a younger age? Do you think that you and I could openly speak if we were left alone and not interfered with or rudely disrupted by other posters? You seem genuine and sincere. I worked with a bunch of white guys your age in a warehouse when I was a senior high in high school. I was the youngest employee who worked there at the time. A rugged group of white working class kids from St. Paul. A take a gulp at first sight moment, when first viewed through the eyes of an eighteen year suburban teenager. I'm not baiting you. I respect your willingness to present an honest and open opinion. I'm tired of Eric , PB and other snowflakes always getting in the way/disrupting/inserting falsehoods which reduces the chances of open/honest dialogue.

I consider this post somewhat typical of right-wing attitudes today (of course, "right-wing" today has become, through constant propaganda and deception, the "center-right," since it encompasses about 40% of the population). The right-wing considers that they are entitled to rule the country; to maintain and propagate their ideology indefinitely. The important thing is to keep the status quo and things as they are; that is "proper balance." To keep stagnation and decline in power, forever, because we are a "center-right" country. We are a center-right country, but where is it written that it should always remain a center-right country, instead of what we liberals would like to turn it into? To turn the USA into a center-left country would merely mean to move it forward on the path to justice. The arc of history is long, but it bends that way; and if it hadn't, we'd still be living in a "center-right" country founded on slavery and plantations, a very small middle class, a tech-driven, materialist, polluted society with no respect for Nature, with no rights for black people or women, or even a colony of the King inside the UK.

[Classic-Xer]

(01-25-2017, 03:39 PM)taramarie Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 03:26 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 03:11 PM)taramarie Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 08:01 AM)Odin Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 06:12 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I'm damn near fifty years old. I've owned and operated a business for twenty four years. I've heard thousands of sales pitches during my life. I've made thousands of sales pitches during my life. I live in the most heavily marketed country and group of citizens on earth. Do you have any idea what happens to suckers in America? Hint: There are no government safety nets in place to save suckers. If you lived in America, you'd hear or read about a story involving some sucker every day. Ask Eric if recruiting suckers is easy in America.

But yet you fell for a con man.

My comment still stands. I do not see how your comment negatively impacts mine. Both are suckers to a certain degree. Both have assholes who taint their message which become the stereotypes that prevent discussion being had on both sides. Neither understands the other because their brains are wired differently but from my background so far the dems message IMO is a better one so far. You have yet to change my mind on that. Fortunately for you my mind is a bit more open than the man you mentioned I should talk to. Odin is correct. Btw Odin this comment is for Classic....i just included your comment because I agree with you. But as you know I trust in action. So far Trumps actions are heinous. I will let what Trump does speak for itself as always as we have enough doomsday prophets among us and xers demand proof so that you guys will get in the future. I do not trust though that proof is enough for xers or at least some who are extreme right or left wing though. Far too easy for them to dismiss it. Cynicism is good for finding truth but not if dismisses anything that does not align with what you deem as truth. 

Btw I never asked for your age nor your background. I do not see how that makes you qualified to be less of a sucker. As you can see there are some among us who still think you are one and for reasons I have mentioned which have proven to be true. Odin votes differently to you. You see him as a sucker and he vise versa. Except you think your experience and age makes you less of one. It doesn't. A worldly person who considers everyone and considers everyone's human condition in America maybe less so. One that also considers the health of the economy and eco system too...not just the human condition maybe less so too. Thing is both sides seem to think they both have it right. So far what I see Trump doing is hurting all 3.

One thing that is already apparent about Trump is that he is not going to suddenly "act Presidential" as was incorrectly foretold by some really naive people. He has one or more personality disorders (and as I am not a therapist or counselor evaluating him 1 x 1 I will not try to guess what they are from a distance). He is behaving erratically and dis functionally. I know what I am seeing very well. I have had a long go through the wild and wooly world of tech. I hit 30 years last year. This has spanned both large corporations and very small start ups. I've had at least 30 bosses during that time. I have had a few who were really out there. One of them ended up with both civil suits and a criminal investigation. Trump reminds me in particular of him. He's the only boss that ever made me want to quit without having another job lined up. In retrospect he had severe mental health issues.

Haha of course he is not going to suddenly act presidential. He is still using an unsecured android phone in the white house despite bashing Hillary of doing the same. I have a link for that btw if anyone is interested.

Well he is all over the place and I think that is due to his lying nature which qualifies him already for office as they tend to be two faced.

It shall be interesting what happens in the future. So far I see nothing good happening except for him cancelling the TPP deal.

I think it has more to do with his adjustment to a whole new territory. However, sitting in an executive chair, well that's home Donald Trumps home away from home. I can relate to his position. I got hammered by critics was treated the same way in the old forum early on. Do you see me getting hammered by waves of liberal critics, being demoralized and treated as being illegitimate today? How could you, you weren't around during the Bush years? We have a large segment of society (super blue ego's) who view him as illegitimate because he didn't win the popular vote. Are you familiar with snowflakes? It's an American term. A conservative term associated with a segment of blue American. What side is that you ask, the side you've chosen enough times for me to associate you with view you as being a member of blue America. Who am I? I'm the Republican voter that you screwed up and sided against to many times. But, I'm not involved in American politics? You are now. Welcome to American politics. Like Trump, I just placed you in a whole new territory.

[Classic-Xer]

(01-25-2017, 03:45 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 12:35 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: ... Trump would be more politically immune than the previous presidents (Clinton, Bush II and Obama) who proceeded him. Civil War over what? A woman's right to choose or a transgenders right to choose his/her bathroom. When the crap hits the fan, I see an American flag with a few less stars or an America flag with the same amount of stars with new states with new names and that's about it. It's funny, I listen to Obama speak about America, it's resilience, it's heroism and the greatness that it represents as if he was speaking about us from a distance. I think to myself, yeah, we are a pretty good, we are pretty brave, we unite and stick together through serious stuff pretty well and you should be proud of us. Its to bad that you were taught to hate us so much by your mother and all her liberal friends and  associates and all the liberals surrounding you later on.

Unfortunately, your America is the vastly poorer half.  If it comes down a schism, don't count on doing all that well.

You assume that it is. I'm politically associated with largely middle income and above.

[Classic-Xer]

(01-25-2017, 05:10 PM)Odin Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 03:45 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 12:35 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: ... Trump would be more politically immune than the previous presidents (Clinton, Bush II and Obama) who proceeded him. Civil War over what? A woman's right to choose or a transgenders right to choose his/her bathroom. When the crap hits the fan, I see an American flag with a few less stars or an America flag with the same amount of stars with new states with new names and that's about it. It's funny, I listen to Obama speak about America, it's resilience, it's heroism and the greatness that it represents as if he was speaking about us from a distance. I think to myself, yeah, we are a pretty good, we are pretty brave, we unite and stick together through serious stuff pretty well and you should be proud of us. Its to bad that you were taught to hate us so much by your mother and all her liberal friends and  associates and all the liberals surrounding you later on.

Unfortunately, your America is the vastly poorer half.  If it comes down a schism, don't count on doing all that well.

Given that he lives in Minnesota, if the SHTF he and I will probably be part of Canada, LMAO.

If the crap hits the fan, Canada may no longer exist as country.

[Classic-Xer]

(01-25-2017, 08:00 AM)Odin Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 02:57 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(01-24-2017, 06:23 PM)Odin Wrote:

(01-24-2017, 02:38 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(01-24-2017, 12:59 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: Trump's ridiculous and insulting behavior might be a deliberate ploy, to distract attention from all the damage he's doing to us in his mission of boosting his billionaire (and millionaire) class. Take away our easy access to the web, for example. Taking away our health insurance and medicare, and our public schools. Selling off our natural heritage to robber barons. Polluting our rivers, air and climate. Blowing up our national debt and our inequality with his tax breaks. Taking away civil rights protections so his mobs and blue thugs can beat up and kill blacks, hispanics and queers with impunity. Make more drone attacks that kill innocent people, and trying to steal Iraqi oil. Oh, and yes, taking away freedom of the press. Anything I've left out?

But his 40% followers don't care about his ridiculous behavior, although that's what the press focuses on. And the people remain ignorant about what he's really doing to them. Neat set up.

It could also be a ploy to shift the focus from him to a bunch of self serving (highly partisan) people who are associated with the press who are supposed to be looking out for all of us instead of just looking out for themselves, their progressive views and political preference that's associated with themselves. As a general rule, I tend to put this group of so-called journalists/people on ignore. However, since the election of Trump, I've been watching this group more on CNN. The role of the press is not to promote fear and hatred of Republicans and smear Republican presidents. The role of the press is not to show political favoritism and advance gossip and personally connect itself with and emotionally attach itself to progressive movements. You are losing America which seems to be OK with you and those like yourself. You already know where you stand with me. You already know your value to me. You already know the value that I place on your side of the Democratic party. Just so you're clear of where we are at right now. You are OK with losing/cutting its ties with America and I'm OK with America losing/cutting its ties with people like you. I'm OK with us continuing towards that goal and allowing the natural process that's taking place to continue going on as well. Madonna is no longer a focal point/ primary image associated with a young teenage males wet dream. Values change with age.

You're a sucker for the Alt-Right's Orwellian narrative about actual, legitimate news being "fake news", that is what you are.

Dude, I was watching the news before you were born. I've been the watching cable news channels since you've been alive. I don't trust Democrats (I haven't trusted them for a very long time) or the liberal media (I haven't trusted them for well over a decade now) in general. I distrusted them long before the so-called Alt-Right's Orwellian narrative existed, so to speak. BTW, you have sucker written all over you. But at least, you're not a big enough sucker to surrender your gun rights.

You are LITERALLY a sucker. You voted for a actual con man who took advantage of your resentments, fear, and economic illiteracy.

Dude, you're getting funny now. I didn't vote for a job. I voted bring in/bring back and take part in creating more jobs. I'm good friends with the legal immigrant who lives on the block. I'm good friends with the black guy who owns my parents old home. I don't resent either of them. What I resent is, liberal vote hounds like you or Eric using sucker ploys around me or with me. I own a company that has brought in more income than you'll see in your lifetime. Hell, I spend more money on major equipment purchases than you make in a year. If I were economically illiterate as you say, I would have been out of business/bankrupt a long time ago.

[pbrower2a]

(01-24-2017, 12:54 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(01-23-2017, 11:46 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Two delights (irony intended):

Kellyanne Goebbels -- excuse me, Conway coined the spectacularly-fraudulent oxymoron "alternative facts".

The other: Donald Trump said to the CIA that it would be wise to seize the oil of counties that the United States defeats in war. Chris Matthews pointed out that the USA went to war with Saddam Hussein's  Iraq over the invasion of Kuwait because Hussein intended to take Kuwaiti oil assets.

George Orwell and Hannah Arendt are becoming relevant to a country that we never expected them to be relevant.

I don't know which is worse, the Trump administration misleading people about the size of its crowd or the Obama administration misleading people about the reason and the facts associated with the death of a US ambassador considering they're both guilty of misleading. However, I do view one as being relatively insignificant compared to the other one. PB, if you find yourself alone with no political party left for you turn to or rely for support, it will be your own fault.

Ambassador Stevens being killed in a fire that results from a benign-looking protest (it was about a horrid movie that did more to offend than entertain or educate) was a tragedy. I have no idea why Mr. Stevens went back into the burning building -- to rescue classified material, perhaps? Dangerous situations elicit heroic behavior, and those dangerous situations can get a hero killed. Heroic death is still tragic -- indeed, it might be more tragic for the loss of the hero.

Give credit to President Obama -- any deaths in that incident do not lead to a cascade of further tragedies for Americans. President Obama responded properly. I can assure you that he did not feel good about the situation.

President Trump lying about a triviality may not cause direct death or crippling injury to Americans, but it does bode ill. At one time or another any President will face some analogue of a Kobiyashi Maru test (OK, I may have been exposed to too much Star Trek for your taste -- tough!) -- a sure loss that will expose the flaws of any potential leader. President of the United States or captain of an interstellar space ship with double-talk drives and potential conflicts with Klingons.... you can take your choice of which is tougher.

The faults of Donald Trump are being bared long before he finds himself in a great tragedy not of his making. This is a vindictive, intellectually-lazy, thin-skinned person willing to make any unfounded claim just to protect his bloated self-image.  He is more likely to find scapegoats than solutions... and people who find scapegoats instead of solutions solve nothing. Baring their weaknesses of character, they expose us to one calamity after another.

I have yet to figure why so many as 46% of the electorate could vote for someone so obviously inadequate to the role and elect him President. Maybe enough people think that that electing a roguish character will send a message to the enemies of America. Maybe people think that a businessman can run the federal government like a business (it is most definitely not a profit-and-loss operation). Maybe people believe that businessmen who generate profits can inspire job-creating activities.

Then again, many people fall for rogues -- the floozie who makes some old, lonely widow think that he is getting a new burst of youth by sharing his assets with a materialistic semi-whore, the confidence artist who seems like such a nice young man, and the  suitor who showers a future victim with effusive displays of affection only to become an abusive spouse. Old men who get the floozy end up with their bank accounts drained. You know the rest of the story. I know enough philosophy, history, psychology, semantics, and economics to see the worst in Donald Trump. Multitudes saw something else before the election. I take no delight in saying that many such people will see Donald Trump as I do -- but too late to avoid experiencing the very things that I dread.

One thousand, four hundred and twenty-six days to go. The time between elections can seem like a prison term when one despises the President, as you probably felt was the case with Barack Obama. We may get out of this nightmare with the desire to establish a parliamentary system of government in which a Prime Minister is chosen by the winning party for his qualifications (which might not preclude Barack Obama, who would thrive in a parliamentary system but would preclude Donald Trump) and the potential for the vote of no confidence for a government that goes bad.

The consequences of the Obama Administration are now set in stone. We can argue to no end on how to interpret the prose. We have yet to know the consequences of four years following the election Donald Trump as President. The best that I can hope for is a leader tied to an obsolete ideology, an early-industrial paradigm in which greater production and higher profits generate human happiness. The elites around him are as out of touch with the consequences of their beliefs as the quasi-aristocrats at the start of Gone With the Wind.  The methods of military conquest include weapons far more horrible than those that William Tecumseh Sherman had at his disposal.