Presidential election, 2016

[Eric the Green]

(01-03-2017, 04:38 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(01-03-2017, 12:26 PM)The Wonkette Wrote:

(01-02-2017, 07:36 PM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(01-02-2017, 07:26 PM)Danilynn Wrote: ***still trying to figure out from one post if I'm the hillbilly or the slaveholder*** nice slurs by the way. try replacing those with slurs toward any other ethnic group and still see if they are socially acceptable, if not perhaps try not slinging slurs at southerners and Caucasians living in the south. neither was very nice, nor was it warranted.

This is why I just laugh when people like Bob accuse me of using "vile stereotypes" when I criticize progressives.  Yet he's fine with the outright slurs - as long as it's his side that is using them.

That slur was posted by Eric the Green, not Bob Butler.

If anything we liberals need to break the habit, should we have it, of calling people "hicks", "hayseeds", "rednecks", "peckerwoods", and "hillbillies" for having a culture different from ours. We liberals may need their votes to make America good again, which is the most that we can ever hope to do after what looks as appealing as a four-year prison term to me.

I wish I had dual citizenship.

But just as I would not push Johann Sebastian Bach, a part of my culture, upon black people (even if  his music is poignant and rhythmically-powerful), neither would I push his music in Appalachia. Multiculturalism, if it is to have meaning, must include respect for the home-spun culture of Appalachia and the Ozarks as well as of white cultural elites and middle-class minorities.

Their culture is fine, for them. Their political behavior, and its results upon themselves as well as everyone else; not so much.

THEY are responsible for this. Not the politicians, not urban liberals.

Nor is there any excuse for cultural isolation, in either direction.

[Danilynn]

well, this redneck hillbilly slaveholder, funny I haven't seen any extra people living in my house or property doing things whether by force or free will, thinks your side has done quite enough to destroy this country.

signed,
sick and tired of being maligned for being a conservative southerner and white, Christian.

[Eric the Green]

(01-03-2017, 09:04 PM)Danilynn Wrote: well, this redneck hillbilly slaveholder, funny I haven't seen any extra people living in my house or property doing things whether by force or free will, thinks your side has done quite enough to destroy this country.

signed,
sick and tired of being maligned for being a conservative southerner and white, Christian.

You can be sick and tired all you want. You have that right. I have the right to point out what I think are the problems, causes and solutions. I am honest in my attempt. To take it personally, is not to take responsibility for the country we live in, and all it's history, including slavery and its legacy today. The point I think Bryan Stephenson is making, is that this is a national responsibility, for all of us, and its impact is felt everywhere.

I am white, a Christian (though much different flavor of one from yours, and not to be maligned), not a southerner (though my Mom was, and my Dad's family is thoroughly red state), and a liberal. And if you say I have done quite enough to destroy this country, then you are doing the maligning as much as me. And I have my own things that I am sick and tired of, I'm sure you know; like 35 years of any amount of progress or dealing with real issues blocked for no reason.

So in my opinion, to look at our country honestly, and pray and work for it to be "great," is ALL our responsibility.

[Danilynn]

I never owned slaves.
my parents never owned slaves
my grandparents never owned slaves
my great grandparents never owned slaves
my great-great grandparents never owned slaves.

my dad's family didn't arrive in this country until 1913.

they came from Germany,
they never owned slaves.

Mississippi is a friendly state and is really pretty with some beautiful countryside and churches filled with charitable people.

My neighborhood is black, white, latino.

we get along really well.

NOT ONE OF US OWNS SLAVES.

for the love of God, we aren't evil and nor are we the antichrist. we just have different meanings of life liberty and the pursuit of happiness than you.

PLEASE STOP maligning us as evil incarnate.

[Eric the Green]

(01-03-2017, 09:19 PM)Danilynn Wrote: I never owned slaves.
my parents never owned slaves
my grandparents never owned slaves
my great grandparents never owned slaves
my great-great grandparents never owned slaves.

my dad's family didn't arrive in this country until 1913.

they came from Germany,
they never owned slaves.

Mississippi is a friendly state and is  really pretty with some beautiful countryside and churches filled with charitable people.

My neighborhood is black, white, latino.

we get along really well.

NOT ONE OF US OWNS SLAVES.

for the love of God, we aren't evil and nor are we the antichrist. we just have different meanings of life liberty and the pursuit of happiness than you.

PLEASE STOP maligning us as evil incarnate.

[Danilynn]

wow Eric wasn't aware your family on your dad's side came here in 1913 from Germany too.

what was the point of just reposting my post and saying nothing?

[Eric the Green]

(01-03-2017, 09:19 PM)Danilynn Wrote: I never owned slaves.
my parents never owned slaves
my grandparents never owned slaves
my great grandparents never owned slaves
my great-great grandparents never owned slaves.

my dad's family didn't arrive in this country until 1913.

they came from Germany,
they never owned slaves.

Good for you! We're even then. See, it's not a personal issue then, is it?

Quote:Mississippi is a friendly state and is  really pretty with some beautiful countryside and churches filled with charitable people.

My neighborhood is black, white, latino.

we get along really well.

NOT ONE OF US OWNS SLAVES.

Good, but did you watch that program about Our Mockingbird? The fact is that Mississippi and Alabama are still thoroughly segregated. all progress toward integration has been reversed, especially the 1954 decision. What does it say about you, that the only thing you can say about this issue, is to defend yourself personally? That's what I never understood about you. You are unable it appears to discuss issues in a general way.

Quote:for the love of God, we aren't evil and nor are we the antichrist. we just have different meanings of life liberty and the pursuit of happiness than you.

PLEASE STOP maligning us as evil incarnate.

I will not stop making the posts like I have been making recently about slavery and its legacy, although maybe I won't use the word hillbillies if you're around. It seems to rile you, but you could also embrace it. I certainly don't feel maligned if you call me a hippie, although you probably mean it that way as retaliation. To me, it's a compliment, so thank you

I don't know what "different meanings of liberty" you have, but I doubt it could be established that there are different meanings. Some people are confused about it, that's for sure. They think untrammeled "free enterprise" is "liberty," when it's really slavery. But, you know what George Orwell said about doublespeak. It's very often practiced today, especially by our president-elect.

As Atticus Finch said, "for the love of God, DO YOUR DUTY!" Stop covering up for and excusing the sins of your state, and face up to the world we live all in.

And you can criticize California all you want. We have very far to go too, and have multiple sins for which to atone. I've told you that before too.

[Eric the Green]

(01-03-2017, 09:24 PM)Danilynn Wrote: wow Eric wasn't aware your family on your dad's side came here in 1913 from Germany too.

what was the point of just reposting my post and saying nothing?

No, my Dad's family was Indiana for 5 generations. My Mom came from Oklahoma, where his father built most of the bridges there. He was mostly of German ancestry.

Maybe the point is that we are not really so different, as you implied; we have just made different choices in what we choose to support and think.

[Eric the Green]

Danilynn, the rural folks are responsible for the 1% OWNING OUR COUNTRY.

They put the politicians in office that made it such.

Now, just WHO is that "maligning?" Since you seem to be all in favor of the political arrangements and policies that created this condition of our country, why not then just be proud of it, and not consider it an insult? If it's what you favor, then why would you consider it "evil"?

You could follow Warren Dew's example. He just tries to argue that I and others are incorrect about those policies, and that the policies that you also favor as well as he, are correct.

[Galen]

(01-03-2017, 09:04 PM)Danilynn Wrote: sick and tired of being maligned for being a conservative southerner and white, Christian.

I can understand that but keep in mind that according to Eric the Obtuse and other idiots like him consider being a white male Christian is truly the incarnation of evil.

[Warren Dew]

(01-03-2017, 04:38 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: But just as I would not push Johann Sebastian Bach, a part of my culture, upon black people (even if  his music is poignant and rhythmically-powerful), neither would I push his music in Appalachia. Multiculturalism, if it is to have meaning, must include respect for the home-spun culture of Appalachia and the Ozarks as well as of white cultural elites and middle-class minorities.

Isn't the fiddle a traditional instrument of Appalachia?  Bach wrote plenty of good music for the fiddle.  You don't have to push it, but there's no reason for cultural apartheid, either.

[pbrower2a]

(01-03-2017, 09:04 PM)Danilynn Wrote: well, this redneck hillbilly slaveholder, funny I haven't seen any extra people living in my house or property doing things whether by force or free will, thinks your side has done quite enough to destroy this country.

signed,
sick and tired of being maligned for being a conservative southerner and white, Christian.

There was a time when Mississippi was not so friendly a place. Mississippi actually had its own secret police:

Quote:The Mississippi State Sovereignty Commission (also called the Sov-Com) was a state agency which operated from 1956 to 1977. It was directed by the governor of Mississippi.[2] The stated objective of the commission was to "[...] protect the sovereignty of the state of Mississippi, and her sister states" from "encroachment thereon by the Federal Government".[3] It coordinated activities to portray the state and racial segregation in a more positive light.

During its existence, the commission profiled more than 87,000 names of people associated with the civil rights movement (which it opposed), and was complicit in the murders of three civil rights workers in Neshoba County.[4]

The Commission was created by the Mississippi Legislature in 1956 in reaction to the 1954 Supreme Court decision, Brown v. Board of Education, in which the United States Supreme Court held unanimously that racially segregated public schools were unconstitutional. The "sovereignty" the state was trying to protect was against federal enforcement of civil rights laws, such as the 1964 Civil Rights Act and the 1965 Voting Rights Act, and U.S. Supreme Court rulings.[clarification needed] The membership consisted of twelve appointed and legislatively elected members, and ex officio members, the governor, lieutenant governor, the Speaker of the Mississippi House of Representatives, and the state attorney general. The governor sat as the chairman. Its initial budget was $250,000 a year. The Sovereignty Commission's first investigator was Leonard Hicks who began his position in 1956. In 1958 Zack Van Landingham became an investigator, followed by R.C. "Bob" Thomas, State Representative Hugh Boren, Andy Hopkins, and Tom Scarbrough in 1960. Other principal investigators for the Sovereignty Commission were Virgil Downing, Leland Cole, Fulton Tutor, Edgar C. Fortenberry, and James "Mack" Mohead.


As the state's public relations campaign failed to dampen rising civil rights activism, the commission put people to work as a de facto intelligence organization trying to identify citizens who might be supporting civil rights initiatives, be allied with communists, or just tipped state surveillance if their associations, activities, and travels did not seem to conform to segregationist norms. Swept up on lists of people under suspicion by such broad criteria were tens of thousands of African-American and white professionals, teachers, and government workers in agricultural and other agencies, churches, and community organizations. The "commission penetrated most of the major civil rights organizations in Mississippi, even planting clerical workers in the offices of activist attorneys. It informed police about planned marches or boycotts and encouraged police harassment of African-Americans who cooperated with civil rights groups. Its agents obstructed voter registration by blacks and harassed African-Americans seeking to attend white schools."[5]

The commission's activities included attempting to preserve the state's segregation and Jim Crow laws, opposing school integration, and ensuring portrayal of the state "in a positive light." Among its first employees were a former FBI agent and a transfer from the state highway patrol. "The agency outwardly extolled racial harmony, but it secretly paid investigators and spies to gather both information and misinformation."[6] Staff of the commission worked closely with, and in some cases funded, the notorious White Citizens' Councils. From 1960 to 1964, it secretly funded the White Citizens Council, a private organization, with $190,000 of state funds.[7]:75 The commission also used its intelligence-gathering capabilities to assist in the defense of Byron De La Beckwith, the murderer of Medgar Evers, during his second trial. Sov-Com investigator Andy Hopkins provided De La Beckwith's attorneys with information on the potential jurors, which the attorneys used during the selection process.[7]:204–5

The Sov-Com was also involved in the arrests and murders of James Chaney, Michael Schwerner, and Andrew Goodman, three volunteers for the Freedom Summer project of 1964.[8] Commission agent, A.L. Hopkins, met with Neshoba County law enforcement and suggested the disappearance was a propaganda ploy.[9]

After the election of Paul B. Johnson Jr., the agency director, Erle Johnston, owner of The Scott County Times, expanded the public relations role and attempted to form closer ties with business while monitoring proclaimed subversive groups, such as the Congress of Racial Equality, founded by James L. Farmer, Jr.[10] Johnston left the commission in 1968 and was from 1981 to 1985 the mayor of Forest in Scott County, Mississippi.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mississipp...Commission

Yes, I made an edit to the article to put the organization in the category "Secret Police" along with the KGB, Gestapo, Stasi, Committes for the Defense of the Revolution (for Castro), Mukhabarat (Iraq), SAVAK, Securitate, Tokko (Japan from 1911 to 1945), and Tontons Macoutes... in Wikipedia, and that description has stuck.

It did not operate much outside of Mississippi, but still (in one of my edits, this time on "Secret Police",

Quote:Secret police organizations can exist at sub-national levels in a political unit in which entrenched leadership is largely unaccountable. An example is the Mississippi State Sovereignty Commission, an agency which existed from 1960 to 1977 with the responsibility to enforce segregation and resist all challenges to it in the American state of Mississippi. It manipulated the news media, harassed opponents of segregation, coordinated with terrorist groups, and manipulated the judicial system to defend those who committed violent crimes (even murder) against those who challenged the racist order.[3]

[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_police#cite_note-3][/url]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_police

The edit (mine) sticks, attesting to its widespread acceptance by people who have the potential to edit Wikipedia at will. If it operates like a secret police organization on behalf of a polity whose adherence to the norms of democratic respect for minority views and interests is weak to non-existence and uses violence to maintain control of the political process, then it is a secret police.

...I am not accusing anyone in particular, and certainly not you. Indeed I have a concern that new secret police agencies may come into being in America

Mississippi has an ugly past, and that is worth remembering. Just saying.

[Eric the Green]

(01-03-2017, 11:38 PM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(01-03-2017, 04:38 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: But just as I would not push Johann Sebastian Bach, a part of my culture, upon black people (even if  his music is poignant and rhythmically-powerful), neither would I push his music in Appalachia. Multiculturalism, if it is to have meaning, must include respect for the home-spun culture of Appalachia and the Ozarks as well as of white cultural elites and middle-class minorities.

Isn't the fiddle a traditional instrument of Appalachia?  Bach wrote plenty of good music for the fiddle.  You don't have to push it, but there's no reason for cultural apartheid, either.

On that we agree, Warren.

I suppose Appalachians could appreciate that street violinist I posted not long ago here, playing the "Chaconne." And the famous Prelude is ubiquitous.

[Eric the Green]

(01-03-2017, 09:19 PM)Danilynn Wrote: for the love of God, we aren't evil and nor are we the antichrist. we just have different meanings of life liberty and the pursuit of happiness than you.

PLEASE STOP maligning us as evil incarnate.

And it should be clear, I did not call you evil. As a matter of principle, I try to avoid labelling people that way. It's not fair. Most people are not evil. Please STOP supporting "evil" policies. I know, fat chance of that.

But it's certain policies I disagree with; people everywhere are quite capable of choosing good ones, if they choose to do so. And of course, I know what the good ones are, and you don't. Well, at least I hope so

[Galen]

(01-04-2017, 04:32 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(01-03-2017, 09:19 PM)Danilynn Wrote: for the love of God, we aren't evil and nor are we the antichrist. we just have different meanings of life liberty and the pursuit of happiness than you.

PLEASE STOP maligning us as evil incarnate.

And it should be clear, I did not call you evil. As a matter of principle, I try to avoid labelling people that way. It's not fair. Most people are not evil. Please STOP supporting "evil" policies. I know, fat chance of that.

But it's certain policies I disagree with; people everywhere are quite capable of choosing good ones, if they choose to do so.

Eric the Obtuse considers anyone who disagrees with him as evil.

[Odin]

The Deep South is a hierarchical culture where "liberty" and political participation is only meant for the elites, where deep inequalities of wealth are accepted as part of life and not to be questioned. Where people are told to "know their place". That is not a culture I can respect.

[Warren Dew]

(01-04-2017, 12:44 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: The edit (mine) sticks, attesting to its widespread acceptance by people who have the potential to edit Wikipedia at will.

Or, possibly, ubiquitous apathy on that particular subject.

[pbrower2a]

(01-03-2017, 11:38 PM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(01-03-2017, 04:38 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: But just as I would not push Johann Sebastian Bach, a part of my culture, upon black people (even if  his music is poignant and rhythmically-powerful), neither would I push his music in Appalachia. Multiculturalism, if it is to have meaning, must include respect for the home-spun culture of Appalachia and the Ozarks as well as of white cultural elites and middle-class minorities.

Isn't the fiddle a traditional instrument of Appalachia?  Bach wrote plenty of good music for the fiddle.  You don't have to push it, but there's no reason for cultural apartheid, either.

I searched for "the difference between a violin and a fiddle" and got this.

Question: What's the Difference Between a Fiddle and a Violin?
There's an old musician's joke:
"What's the difference between a fiddle and a violin?"
"You don't spill beer on a violin!"

Now, the real answer is slightly more complicated, but that joke just about sums it up: a violin is "fancy," and a fiddle is "folksy." Other than that, they're pretty much the same thing.

Answer:
So what are the differences between fiddles and violins? The short answer is: nothing. The long answer is a little bit more complicated.
The main thing that makes a fiddle a fiddle and a violin a violin is the type of music that is played on it. Generally, fiddles play folk/traditional genres (e.g. Cajun music, Irish trad, and klezmer), and violins play composition-based genres (e.g. Western classical music, Indian classical music, and jazz). And when it comes down to it, it's all pretty wishy-washy. It's not uncommon to hear a great violinist such as Itzhak Perlman refer to his Stradivarius as his "fiddle," or a bluegrass fiddler talk about the family "violin" that his great-granddad carved by hand in the woodshed.

But are there any differences between a fiddler's instrument and a violinist's instrument?

In some cases, there may be some minor and changeable physical differences between a fiddler's instrument and a violinist's instrument. The words "fiddle" and "violin" are, in their purest sense, referring to the non-changeable parts of the instrument itself. To a layman: the wooden box with the curly-ended board sticking off one end. That part of the instrument is exactly the same, whether it's a fiddle or a violin.

The changeable pieces of the instrument, however, are known as the "set-up," and many fiddlers prefer a different set-up than many violinists. The set-up includes the strings, the tuners, the bridge, and any shoulder rests, chin rests, or pick-ups that a player may choose to use.

With strings attached...

A standard fiddle/violin has four strings. Five-string fiddles do exist, and there are plenty of fiddle-related instruments with other arrangements, but if we're talking about the standard fiddle, we're talking about four strings. Classical players (violinists) generally string their fiddles up with catgut strings, which were traditionally made of sheep intestines but are now often synthetic, wrapped ("wound") with very fine metal. The E string is generally an unwrapped steel string which can be tuned with a "fine tuner" (a small tuner on the tailpiece of the instrument) rather than just the tuning peg. Classical players almost always tune their fiddles in perfect fifths, GDAE.
A GDAE tuning is standard in most fiddle traditions as well, though cross-tunings may be used for multiple purposes (including the ever-popular fiddlesticks) and some genres may have a different standard tuning. Most modern fiddle players, particularly those who play American and Western European fiddle genres, string their fiddles with four steel strings, all of which require fine tuners as well as a tuning peg. Both fiddlers and violinists need to change their strings often, as they break frequently and can lose tone over time.

Take it to the bridge...

Another set-up difference can often be found in the bridge of the instrument. The bridge is a small piece of wood -- usually un-varnished maple -- that holds the strings up off the instrument's body. A fiddle player will often use a bridge that is carved to be flatter than that which a violinist would prefer. The flatter bridge lessens the angles between the strings, which allows the player to play two and even three notes at a time... a desirable thing in many acoustic fiddle genres. This is a matter of preference, of course, as a bridge is fully replaceable and fairly easily changed (it's not glued to anything, it's just held in suspension). Some violinists may prefer a flatter bridge, some fiddlers may prefer a more arched bridge. Generally speaking, though, a fiddler will prefer a flatter bridge than a violinist.
Is it harder to play fiddle music or violin music?

The fiddle/violin is an incredibly difficult instrument to play, no matter what genre is being played. Some people will claim that violin is harder, but that is bunk. Violinists often need skills that fiddlers don't, and fiddlers need skills that violinists don't. An advanced player in any genre will be equally, though differently, skilled.

So, that's that! A fiddle and a violin, apart from some easily-changed set-up differences, are the same thing. Now go listen to some fiddle (or violin) music!

(It's basically what music one plays on it)

[Eric the Green]

Was the election of 2016 illegal? There's many reason to think that the Liar in Chief and Cheater in Chief should not be allowed to take office. Here's another:

Report claims at least 50 Trump electors illegitimately voted in the Electoral College
Tom Cahill | January 5, 2017
http://usuncut.com/politics/bipartisan-l...neligible/

According to a report by a bipartisan legal team, anywhere between 50 and 100 of Electoral College members who voted for Trump were ineligible.

In order to be officially elected president by the Electoral College, a candidate must secure the votes of 270 electors out of 538 total Congressional Districts represented in all 50 states. Trump narrowly won the election with 306 electoral votes. However, the report claims that 16 of Trump’s 306 electors didn’t actually live in their Congressional District, violating state statutes on residency requirements for electors. An additional 34 more are listed as “dual office-holders,” meaning that those electors are current elected officials in states that bar officeholders from also being nominated to the Electoral College.

“In North Carolina, for instance, “NCGS 163-1© [a state law] states, ‘One presidential elector shall be nominated from each congressional district…’ Yet, we have voter registration cards showing that numerous North Carolina electors lived outside the congressional districts they represented,” the report read, accusing North Carolina of seating 7 illegitimate electors in the Electoral College, along with three from Texas, two from Arkansas, and one each from Indiana, Louisiana, Michigan, and Oklahoma.

In the section detailing the states that improperly seated electors that were dual office holders, the report claimed that 12 Florida electors were found to have held dual offices, in addition to four electors from Georgia, four from Kansas and Texas each, three electors apiece from South Dakota and West Virginia, two apiece from Iowa, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, and Tennessee, and one each from Kentucky, Michigan, Missouri, Nebraska, North Carolina, Ohio, South Carolina, and Utah.

“Ironically, Florida Attorney General Pam Bondi, who has issued a number of Advisory Legal Opinions on dual-office holding, was a presidential elector,” the report said.

The extensive report — which was authored by “a national team of roughly 15 pro bono attorneys, law students, and legal assistants who represent no client or entity,” cites multiple state and federal laws, as well as provisions in the 12th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution (the amendment explaining the rules of the Electoral College) as justification for its claims. The executive summary of the legal briefing insists there is no political bias behind their findings.

“We are non-partisan—Democrat, Republican, and Independent,” the summary stated. “We live in different parts of the country, urban and rural, Red states and Blue states.”

Given the evidence, the report is asking members of Congress, who are slated to officially approve the results of the presidential election and Electoral College vote on Friday, to refrain from certifying them after all. Should a member of the U.S. House of Representatives file a formal challenge and objection when a joint session of Congress meets on Friday to certify Electoral College results, and should one member of the U.S. Senate sign on to that challenge, then each chamber will then debate the validity of the results for two more hours before meeting again.

The report aims to merely spark debate about the legitimacy of the 50 electors it accuses of being improperly seated, but will leave it to Congress to ultimately decide the election.

“We are not providing any legal advice,” a legal disclaimer in the report stated. “We strongly suggest that members of Congress employ their own legal teams to verify ou[r] work.”


Tom Cahill is a writer for US Uncut based in the Pacific Northwest. He specializes in coverage of political, economic, and environmental news.

[Eric the Green]