Trump Trainwreck - Ongoing diary of betrayal and evil

[TnT]

(01-24-2017, 07:08 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Many people will have to hit bottom before they recognize what a raw deal Donald Trump is. People will need to associate the Republican Party with declining living standards, more work but less pay, environmental degradation, shattered dreams of youth, and people dying because they are priced out of medical care, and maybe loved ones returning in body bags from wars for profit  while elites flaunt extreme wealth and power.  

They get a democratic alternative or they get revolution.

Here's the trouble with that.  When the s*** hits the fan, Trump won't be blamed.  Obama will be blamed.  Hillary will be blamed. Liberals will be stereotyped, blamed and demonized.  Trump will be deployed as the pitiful victim of the left.  I truly wonder if we aren't headed for a real live civil war.

We Americans are so spoiled.  We think we are immune from the crap that happens so commonly all over the world.

[Classic-Xer]

(01-24-2017, 06:53 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(01-24-2017, 02:38 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(01-24-2017, 12:59 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: Trump's ridiculous and insulting behavior might be a deliberate ploy, to distract attention from all the damage he's doing to us in his mission of boosting his billionaire (and millionaire) class. Take away our easy access to the web, for example. Taking away our health insurance and medicare, and our public schools. Selling off our natural heritage to robber barons. Polluting our rivers, air and climate. Blowing up our national debt and our inequality with his tax breaks. Taking away civil rights protections so his mobs and blue thugs can beat up and kill blacks, hispanics and queers with impunity. Make more drone attacks that kill innocent people, and trying to steal Iraqi oil. Oh, and yes, taking away freedom of the press. Anything I've left out?

But his 40% followers don't care about his ridiculous behavior, although that's what the press focuses on. And the people remain ignorant about what he's really doing to them. Neat set up.

It could also be a ploy to shift the focus from him to a bunch of self serving (highly partisan) people who are associated with the press who are supposed to be looking out for all of us instead of just looking out for themselves, their progressive views and political preference that's associated with themselves. As a general rule, I tend to put this group of so-called journalists/people on ignore. However, since the election of Trump, I've been watching this group more on CNN. The role of the press is not to promote fear and hatred of Republicans and smear Republican presidents. The role of the press is not to show political favoritism and advance gossip and personally connect itself with and emotionally attach itself to progressive movements. You are losing America which seems to be OK with you and those like yourself. You already know where you stand with me. You already know your value to me. You already know the value that I place on your side of the Democratic party. Just so you're clear of where we are at right now. You are OK with losing/cutting its ties with America and I'm OK with America losing/cutting its ties with people like you. I'm OK with us continuing towards that goal and allowing the natural process that's taking place to continue going on as well. Madonna is no longer a focal point/ primary image associated with a young teenage males wet dream. Values change with age.

You think extreme libertarian economics and your (semi?)-racist views are natural; I think civilization is the natural unfolding of human abilities instead, and that all people are people and have responsibilities to one another, not just to themselves. No, I don't think rugged individualism is the natural human way; the natural way is cooperation and interdependence. It's OK if people like me cut ties with your red America, although I hope enough people in red America and purple America will awaken to the truth so this won't be needed. We will need to win elections again, and depose your guys from power again. Or else America both red and blue will decline and fall rapidly.

Trump's relationship with the press is narcissitic and adversarial. He calls them the worst people. He just doesn't want them to tell the truth about him; that's all there is to it. You've got your talk radio demons to put out your lies; luckily there are still journalists who report the truth, regardless of who is in power or how they try to suppress them.

You guys honestly seek to destroy Nature on land, sea and air and all wild places for future generations, and despoil the climate indefinitely. You guys want to keep people ignorant and in poverty. All this you think serves your interests, but it really doesn't.

You guys in the rust belt were deceived once again to go back to trickle down economics, in hopes that tax cuts (especially on the rich) and deregulation allowing big business to do whatever it wants to us, will somehow "make America great again." You are sadly deceived and will reap the reward of another failing economy. Tax cuts and deregulation only empowers the bosses, not the people.

I'm not associated with extreme libertarian economics. I voted for Trump to impose tariffs remember. I don't care about you or the progressives in general.  A racist doesn't get into a ugly fight with a white racist like I did not so long ago. I was amazed at how close you guys allowed him get to you by associating himself with your economic system of preference. I didn't see you guys lining up and attacking him the way you've lined up and attacked me purely on assumptions in the past. I assume white racists must scare you more than they scare me.

[Classic-Xer]

(01-24-2017, 09:31 PM)TnT Wrote:

(01-24-2017, 07:08 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Many people will have to hit bottom before they recognize what a raw deal Donald Trump is. People will need to associate the Republican Party with declining living standards, more work but less pay, environmental degradation, shattered dreams of youth, and people dying because they are priced out of medical care, and maybe loved ones returning in body bags from wars for profit  while elites flaunt extreme wealth and power.  

They get a democratic alternative or they get revolution.

Here's the trouble with that.  When the s*** hits the fan, Trump won't be blamed.  Obama will be blamed.  Hillary will be blamed. Liberals will be stereotyped, blamed and demonized.  Trump will be deployed as the pitiful victim of the left.  I truly wonder if we aren't headed for a real live civil war.

We Americans are so spoiled.  We think we are immune from the crap that happens so commonly all over the world.

You're right. Trump would be more politically immune than the previous presidents (Clinton, Bush II and Obama) who proceeded him. Civil War over what? A woman's right to choose or a transgenders right to choose his/her bathroom. When the crap hits the fan, I see an American flag with a few less stars or an America flag with the same amount of stars with new states with new names and that's about it. It's funny, I listen to Obama speak about America, it's resilience, it's heroism and the greatness that it represents as if he was speaking about us from a distance. I think to myself, yeah, we are a pretty good, we are pretty brave, we unite and stick together through serious stuff pretty well and you should be proud of us. Its to bad that you were taught to hate us so much by your mother and all her liberal friends and associates and all the liberals surrounding you later on.

[Eric the Green]

(01-24-2017, 10:47 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(01-24-2017, 06:53 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(01-24-2017, 02:38 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(01-24-2017, 12:59 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: Trump's ridiculous and insulting behavior might be a deliberate ploy, to distract attention from all the damage he's doing to us in his mission of boosting his billionaire (and millionaire) class. Take away our easy access to the web, for example. Taking away our health insurance and medicare, and our public schools. Selling off our natural heritage to robber barons. Polluting our rivers, air and climate. Blowing up our national debt and our inequality with his tax breaks. Taking away civil rights protections so his mobs and blue thugs can beat up and kill blacks, hispanics and queers with impunity. Make more drone attacks that kill innocent people, and trying to steal Iraqi oil. Oh, and yes, taking away freedom of the press. Anything I've left out?

But his 40% followers don't care about his ridiculous behavior, although that's what the press focuses on. And the people remain ignorant about what he's really doing to them. Neat set up.

It could also be a ploy to shift the focus from him to a bunch of self serving (highly partisan) people who are associated with the press who are supposed to be looking out for all of us instead of just looking out for themselves, their progressive views and political preference that's associated with themselves. As a general rule, I tend to put this group of so-called journalists/people on ignore. However, since the election of Trump, I've been watching this group more on CNN. The role of the press is not to promote fear and hatred of Republicans and smear Republican presidents. The role of the press is not to show political favoritism and advance gossip and personally connect itself with and emotionally attach itself to progressive movements. You are losing America which seems to be OK with you and those like yourself. You already know where you stand with me. You already know your value to me. You already know the value that I place on your side of the Democratic party. Just so you're clear of where we are at right now. You are OK with losing/cutting its ties with America and I'm OK with America losing/cutting its ties with people like you. I'm OK with us continuing towards that goal and allowing the natural process that's taking place to continue going on as well. Madonna is no longer a focal point/ primary image associated with a young teenage males wet dream. Values change with age.

You think extreme libertarian economics and your (semi?)-racist views are natural; I think civilization is the natural unfolding of human abilities instead, and that all people are people and have responsibilities to one another, not just to themselves. No, I don't think rugged individualism is the natural human way; the natural way is cooperation and interdependence. It's OK if people like me cut ties with your red America, although I hope enough people in red America and purple America will awaken to the truth so this won't be needed. We will need to win elections again, and depose your guys from power again. Or else America both red and blue will decline and fall rapidly.

Trump's relationship with the press is narcissitic and adversarial. He calls them the worst people. He just doesn't want them to tell the truth about him; that's all there is to it. You've got your talk radio demons to put out your lies; luckily there are still journalists who report the truth, regardless of who is in power or how they try to suppress them.

You guys honestly seek to destroy Nature on land, sea and air and all wild places for future generations, and despoil the climate indefinitely. You guys want to keep people ignorant and in poverty. All this you think serves your interests, but it really doesn't.

You guys in the rust belt were deceived once again to go back to trickle down economics, in hopes that tax cuts (especially on the rich) and deregulation allowing big business to do whatever it wants to us, will somehow "make America great again." You are sadly deceived and will reap the reward of another failing economy. Tax cuts and deregulation only empowers the bosses, not the people.

I'm not associated with extreme libertarian economics. I voted for Trump to impose tariffs remember. I don't care about you or the progressives in general.  A racist doesn't get into a ugly fight with a white racist like I did not so long ago. I was amazed at how close you guys allowed him get to you by associating himself with your economic system of preference. I didn't see you guys lining up and attacking him the way you've lined up and attacked me purely on assumptions in the past. I assume white racists must scare you more than they scare me.

You like to ignore the policies of Trump and focus on the few things he might have right. That's your privilege. You voted for the guy, and it may be hard to admit that your vote was wrong. Probably you never will. OK, that's your right too. Meanwhile your vote has helped to empower a billionaire bully who will shut down every protection of our health and well-being against the brazen greed of corporate thugs. 

And I was second to none here in raising every issue about Trump including his racism. If you don't want me to point out your racist remarks, then you can stop engaging in them if you choose. If you just don't do it anymore, you don't even have to admit I was right. And if you want to continue saying that taxes are theft for people of color, go ahead; that's your right. But myself or others might question you about it, and question your entire motives for your libertarian-economics views. Responses to racist dog-whistles are easy to hear, even if you don't hear the whistle yourself but respond to it like Pavlov's dog.

[Classic-Xer]

(01-24-2017, 06:23 PM)Odin Wrote:

(01-24-2017, 02:38 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(01-24-2017, 12:59 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: Trump's ridiculous and insulting behavior might be a deliberate ploy, to distract attention from all the damage he's doing to us in his mission of boosting his billionaire (and millionaire) class. Take away our easy access to the web, for example. Taking away our health insurance and medicare, and our public schools. Selling off our natural heritage to robber barons. Polluting our rivers, air and climate. Blowing up our national debt and our inequality with his tax breaks. Taking away civil rights protections so his mobs and blue thugs can beat up and kill blacks, hispanics and queers with impunity. Make more drone attacks that kill innocent people, and trying to steal Iraqi oil. Oh, and yes, taking away freedom of the press. Anything I've left out?

But his 40% followers don't care about his ridiculous behavior, although that's what the press focuses on. And the people remain ignorant about what he's really doing to them. Neat set up.

It could also be a ploy to shift the focus from him to a bunch of self serving (highly partisan) people who are associated with the press who are supposed to be looking out for all of us instead of just looking out for themselves, their progressive views and political preference that's associated with themselves. As a general rule, I tend to put this group of so-called journalists/people on ignore. However, since the election of Trump, I've been watching this group more on CNN. The role of the press is not to promote fear and hatred of Republicans and smear Republican presidents. The role of the press is not to show political favoritism and advance gossip and personally connect itself with and emotionally attach itself to progressive movements. You are losing America which seems to be OK with you and those like yourself. You already know where you stand with me. You already know your value to me. You already know the value that I place on your side of the Democratic party. Just so you're clear of where we are at right now. You are OK with losing/cutting its ties with America and I'm OK with America losing/cutting its ties with people like you. I'm OK with us continuing towards that goal and allowing the natural process that's taking place to continue going on as well. Madonna is no longer a focal point/ primary image associated with a young teenage males wet dream. Values change with age.

You're a sucker for the Alt-Right's Orwellian narrative about actual, legitimate news being "fake news", that is what you are.

Dude, I was watching the news before you were born. I've been the watching cable news channels since you've been alive. I don't trust Democrats (I haven't trusted them for a very long time) or the liberal media (I haven't trusted them for well over a decade now) in general. I distrusted them long before the so-called Alt-Right's Orwellian narrative existed, so to speak. BTW, you have sucker written all over you. But at least, you're not a big enough sucker to surrender your gun rights.

[Classic-Xer]

(01-25-2017, 04:05 AM)taramarie Wrote: Both sides think the others are suckers. But which side hurts the most people? I guess that is up for debate too. Which side hurts the environment the most? Which side considers everyone and their rights? I think everyone has their own priorities but to call one or the other "sucker" well that is certainly debatable because depending on top priorities I think Dems could call conservatives suckers as well as vise versa. You know the environment that I grew up in so I perceive certain people to qualify as "suckers." But that does not mean i cannot pick holes in parties i agree with on the whole as well. If you do not believe that I have changed parties because of it and I certainly point out flaws with Dems too. All have qualities that make them suckers but which is the worst. So far I think it is the conservatives by far. I would need reasonable evidence to show why they are better and less of a bunch of "suckers."

I'm damn near fifty years old. I've owned and operated a business for twenty four years. I've heard thousands of sales pitches during my life. I've made thousands of sales pitches during my life. I live in the most heavily marketed country and group of citizens on earth. Do you have any idea what happens to suckers in America? Hint: There are no government safety nets in place to save suckers. If you lived in America, you'd hear or read about a story involving some sucker every day. Ask Eric if recruiting suckers is easy in America.

[Odin]

(01-24-2017, 06:32 PM)SomeGuy Wrote:

(01-24-2017, 06:23 PM)Odin Wrote:

(01-24-2017, 02:38 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(01-24-2017, 12:59 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: Trump's ridiculous and insulting behavior might be a deliberate ploy, to distract attention from all the damage he's doing to us in his mission of boosting his billionaire (and millionaire) class. Take away our easy access to the web, for example. Taking away our health insurance and medicare, and our public schools. Selling off our natural heritage to robber barons. Polluting our rivers, air and climate. Blowing up our national debt and our inequality with his tax breaks. Taking away civil rights protections so his mobs and blue thugs can beat up and kill blacks, hispanics and queers with impunity. Make more drone attacks that kill innocent people, and trying to steal Iraqi oil. Oh, and yes, taking away freedom of the press. Anything I've left out?

But his 40% followers don't care about his ridiculous behavior, although that's what the press focuses on. And the people remain ignorant about what he's really doing to them. Neat set up.

It could also be a ploy to shift the focus from him to a bunch of self serving (highly partisan) people who are associated with the press who are supposed to be looking out for all of us instead of just looking out for themselves, their progressive views and political preference that's associated with themselves. As a general rule, I tend to put this group of so-called journalists/people on ignore. However, since the election of Trump, I've been watching this group more on CNN. The role of the press is not to promote fear and hatred of Republicans and smear Republican presidents. The role of the press is not to show political favoritism and advance gossip and personally connect itself with and emotionally attach itself to progressive movements. You are losing America which seems to be OK with you and those like yourself. You already know where you stand with me. You already know your value to me. You already know the value that I place on your side of the Democratic party. Just so you're clear of where we are at right now. You are OK with losing/cutting its ties with America and I'm OK with America losing/cutting its ties with people like you. I'm OK with us continuing towards that goal and allowing the natural process that's taking place to continue going on as well. Madonna is no longer a focal point/ primary image associated with a young teenage males wet dream. Values change with age.

You're a sucker for the Alt-Right's Orwellian narrative about actual, legitimate news being "fake news", that is what you are.

I dunno, Odin, lots of "fake news" in the MSM, too.  Didn't you know that you're more likely to get raped in college than in a Darfur refugee camp? 

On broken glass, no less.

I'll trust anything in the New York Times or Washington Post, or reported on NPR or the BBC more than non-mainstream "news" sites.

[SomeGuy]

(01-25-2017, 07:50 AM)Odin Wrote:

(01-24-2017, 06:32 PM)SomeGuy Wrote:

(01-24-2017, 06:23 PM)Odin Wrote:

(01-24-2017, 02:38 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(01-24-2017, 12:59 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: Trump's ridiculous and insulting behavior might be a deliberate ploy, to distract attention from all the damage he's doing to us in his mission of boosting his billionaire (and millionaire) class. Take away our easy access to the web, for example. Taking away our health insurance and medicare, and our public schools. Selling off our natural heritage to robber barons. Polluting our rivers, air and climate. Blowing up our national debt and our inequality with his tax breaks. Taking away civil rights protections so his mobs and blue thugs can beat up and kill blacks, hispanics and queers with impunity. Make more drone attacks that kill innocent people, and trying to steal Iraqi oil. Oh, and yes, taking away freedom of the press. Anything I've left out?

But his 40% followers don't care about his ridiculous behavior, although that's what the press focuses on. And the people remain ignorant about what he's really doing to them. Neat set up.

It could also be a ploy to shift the focus from him to a bunch of self serving (highly partisan) people who are associated with the press who are supposed to be looking out for all of us instead of just looking out for themselves, their progressive views and political preference that's associated with themselves. As a general rule, I tend to put this group of so-called journalists/people on ignore. However, since the election of Trump, I've been watching this group more on CNN. The role of the press is not to promote fear and hatred of Republicans and smear Republican presidents. The role of the press is not to show political favoritism and advance gossip and personally connect itself with and emotionally attach itself to progressive movements. You are losing America which seems to be OK with you and those like yourself. You already know where you stand with me. You already know your value to me. You already know the value that I place on your side of the Democratic party. Just so you're clear of where we are at right now. You are OK with losing/cutting its ties with America and I'm OK with America losing/cutting its ties with people like you. I'm OK with us continuing towards that goal and allowing the natural process that's taking place to continue going on as well. Madonna is no longer a focal point/ primary image associated with a young teenage males wet dream. Values change with age.

You're a sucker for the Alt-Right's Orwellian narrative about actual, legitimate news being "fake news", that is what you are.

I dunno, Odin, lots of "fake news" in the MSM, too.  Didn't you know that you're more likely to get raped in college than in a Darfur refugee camp? 

On broken glass, no less.

I'll trust anything in the New York Times or Washington Post, or reported on NPR or the BBC more than non-mainstream "news" sites.

Which is exactly why you believe silly things like that.

[Odin]

(01-25-2017, 12:36 AM)taramarie Wrote:

(01-24-2017, 09:31 PM)TnT Wrote:

(01-24-2017, 07:08 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Many people will have to hit bottom before they recognize what a raw deal Donald Trump is. People will need to associate the Republican Party with declining living standards, more work but less pay, environmental degradation, shattered dreams of youth, and people dying because they are priced out of medical care, and maybe loved ones returning in body bags from wars for profit  while elites flaunt extreme wealth and power.  

They get a democratic alternative or they get revolution.

Here's the trouble with that.  When the s*** hits the fan, Trump won't be blamed.  Obama will be blamed.  Hillary will be blamed. Liberals will be stereotyped, blamed and demonized.  Trump will be deployed as the pitiful victim of the left.  I truly wonder if we aren't headed for a real live civil war.

We Americans are so spoiled.  We think we are immune from the crap that happens so commonly all over the world.

I have suggested this many times before and even some Americans like Chas are comparing this era in America to the civil war era as well as the Gilded age. Let us just say there is a high possibility at this time in history for it to happen. It would possibly take some larger foreign danger or some miracle to happen to bring people together rather than start a new civil war.

In the 1850s there was a New York senator named William Seward, later Lincoln's secretary of state, who famously said that there was an "irrepressible conflict" between the North and South. I think Seward's phrase is relevant again. The divisions in American society are irreconcilable. We can't even agree on what is true and what is false.

[Odin]

(01-25-2017, 02:57 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(01-24-2017, 06:23 PM)Odin Wrote:

(01-24-2017, 02:38 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(01-24-2017, 12:59 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: Trump's ridiculous and insulting behavior might be a deliberate ploy, to distract attention from all the damage he's doing to us in his mission of boosting his billionaire (and millionaire) class. Take away our easy access to the web, for example. Taking away our health insurance and medicare, and our public schools. Selling off our natural heritage to robber barons. Polluting our rivers, air and climate. Blowing up our national debt and our inequality with his tax breaks. Taking away civil rights protections so his mobs and blue thugs can beat up and kill blacks, hispanics and queers with impunity. Make more drone attacks that kill innocent people, and trying to steal Iraqi oil. Oh, and yes, taking away freedom of the press. Anything I've left out?

But his 40% followers don't care about his ridiculous behavior, although that's what the press focuses on. And the people remain ignorant about what he's really doing to them. Neat set up.

It could also be a ploy to shift the focus from him to a bunch of self serving (highly partisan) people who are associated with the press who are supposed to be looking out for all of us instead of just looking out for themselves, their progressive views and political preference that's associated with themselves. As a general rule, I tend to put this group of so-called journalists/people on ignore. However, since the election of Trump, I've been watching this group more on CNN. The role of the press is not to promote fear and hatred of Republicans and smear Republican presidents. The role of the press is not to show political favoritism and advance gossip and personally connect itself with and emotionally attach itself to progressive movements. You are losing America which seems to be OK with you and those like yourself. You already know where you stand with me. You already know your value to me. You already know the value that I place on your side of the Democratic party. Just so you're clear of where we are at right now. You are OK with losing/cutting its ties with America and I'm OK with America losing/cutting its ties with people like you. I'm OK with us continuing towards that goal and allowing the natural process that's taking place to continue going on as well. Madonna is no longer a focal point/ primary image associated with a young teenage males wet dream. Values change with age.

You're a sucker for the Alt-Right's Orwellian narrative about actual, legitimate news being "fake news", that is what you are.

Dude, I was watching the news before you were born. I've been the watching cable news channels since you've been alive. I don't trust Democrats (I haven't trusted them for a very long time) or the liberal media (I haven't trusted them for well over a decade now) in general. I distrusted them long before the so-called Alt-Right's Orwellian narrative existed, so to speak. BTW, you have sucker written all over you. But at least, you're not a big enough sucker to surrender your gun rights.

You are LITERALLY a sucker. You voted for a actual con man who took advantage of your resentments, fear, and economic illiteracy.

[Odin]

(01-25-2017, 06:12 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 04:05 AM)taramarie Wrote: Both sides think the others are suckers. But which side hurts the most people? I guess that is up for debate too. Which side hurts the environment the most? Which side considers everyone and their rights? I think everyone has their own priorities but to call one or the other "sucker" well that is certainly debatable because depending on top priorities I think Dems could call conservatives suckers as well as vise versa. You know the environment that I grew up in so I perceive certain people to qualify as "suckers." But that does not mean i cannot pick holes in parties i agree with on the whole as well. If you do not believe that I have changed parties because of it and I certainly point out flaws with Dems too. All have qualities that make them suckers but which is the worst. So far I think it is the conservatives by far. I would need reasonable evidence to show why they are better and less of a bunch of "suckers."

I'm damn near fifty years old. I've owned and operated a business for twenty four years. I've heard thousands of sales pitches during my life. I've made thousands of sales pitches during my life. I live in the most heavily marketed country and group of citizens on earth. Do you have any idea what happens to suckers in America? Hint: There are no government safety nets in place to save suckers. If you lived in America, you'd hear or read about a story involving some sucker every day. Ask Eric if recruiting suckers is easy in America.

But yet you fell for a con man.

[Odin]

(01-25-2017, 07:52 AM)SomeGuy Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 07:50 AM)Odin Wrote:

(01-24-2017, 06:32 PM)SomeGuy Wrote:

(01-24-2017, 06:23 PM)Odin Wrote:

(01-24-2017, 02:38 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: It could also be a ploy to shift the focus from him to a bunch of self serving (highly partisan) people who are associated with the press who are supposed to be looking out for all of us instead of just looking out for themselves, their progressive views and political preference that's associated with themselves. As a general rule, I tend to put this group of so-called journalists/people on ignore. However, since the election of Trump, I've been watching this group more on CNN. The role of the press is not to promote fear and hatred of Republicans and smear Republican presidents. The role of the press is not to show political favoritism and advance gossip and personally connect itself with and emotionally attach itself to progressive movements. You are losing America which seems to be OK with you and those like yourself. You already know where you stand with me. You already know your value to me. You already know the value that I place on your side of the Democratic party. Just so you're clear of where we are at right now. You are OK with losing/cutting its ties with America and I'm OK with America losing/cutting its ties with people like you. I'm OK with us continuing towards that goal and allowing the natural process that's taking place to continue going on as well. Madonna is no longer a focal point/ primary image associated with a young teenage males wet dream. Values change with age.

You're a sucker for the Alt-Right's Orwellian narrative about actual, legitimate news being "fake news", that is what you are.

I dunno, Odin, lots of "fake news" in the MSM, too.  Didn't you know that you're more likely to get raped in college than in a Darfur refugee camp? 

On broken glass, no less.

I'll trust anything in the New York Times or Washington Post, or reported on NPR or the BBC more than non-mainstream "news" sites.

Which is exactly why you believe silly things like that.

As opposed to silly things like 5 million illegals voting?

[SomeGuy]

(01-25-2017, 08:03 AM)Odin Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 07:52 AM)SomeGuy Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 07:50 AM)Odin Wrote:

(01-24-2017, 06:32 PM)SomeGuy Wrote:

(01-24-2017, 06:23 PM)Odin Wrote: You're a sucker for the Alt-Right's Orwellian narrative about actual, legitimate news being "fake news", that is what you are.

I dunno, Odin, lots of "fake news" in the MSM, too.  Didn't you know that you're more likely to get raped in college than in a Darfur refugee camp? 

On broken glass, no less.

I'll trust anything in the New York Times or Washington Post, or reported on NPR or the BBC more than non-mainstream "news" sites.

Which is exactly why you believe silly things like that.

As opposed to silly things like 5 million illegals voting?

I don't remember ever claiming that.  Not that there is any evidence to say it didn't happen, I don't remember anyone doing a recount in places like California more likely to have that as an issue.  So, I have no present opinion on whether or not it happened.  Wouldn't surprise me one way or another if anybody dug into it and we got some more light on the claim.

Probably a healthier attitude to take than blindly announcing one's allegiance to one set of "facts" or another.

[Marypoza]

(01-25-2017, 08:34 AM)SomeGuy Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 08:03 AM)Odin Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 07:52 AM)SomeGuy Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 07:50 AM)Odin Wrote:

(01-24-2017, 06:32 PM)SomeGuy Wrote: I dunno, Odin, lots of "fake news" in the MSM, too.  Didn't you know that you're more likely to get raped in college than in a Darfur refugee camp? 

On broken glass, no less.

I'll trust anything in the New York Times or Washington Post, or reported on NPR or the BBC more than non-mainstream "news" sites.

Which is exactly why you believe silly things like that.

As opposed to silly things like 5 million illegals voting?

I don't remember ever claiming that.  Not that there is any evidence to say it didn't happen, I don't remember anyone doing a recount in places like California more likely to have that as an issue.  So, I have no present opinion on whether or not it happened.  Wouldn't surprise me one way or another if anybody dug into it and we got some more light on the claim.

Probably a healthier attitude to take than blindly announcing one's allegiance to one set of "facts" or another.

-- Some Guy, Odin is a $hillhoe. Ignore him. Unless you're playing with him. Then by all means have fun

[SomeGuy]

(01-25-2017, 09:53 AM)Marypoza Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 08:34 AM)SomeGuy Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 08:03 AM)Odin Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 07:52 AM)SomeGuy Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 07:50 AM)Odin Wrote: I'll trust anything in the New York Times or Washington Post, or reported on NPR or the BBC more than non-mainstream "news" sites.

Which is exactly why you believe silly things like that.

As opposed to silly things like 5 million illegals voting?

I don't remember ever claiming that.  Not that there is any evidence to say it didn't happen, I don't remember anyone doing a recount in places like California more likely to have that as an issue.  So, I have no present opinion on whether or not it happened.  Wouldn't surprise me one way or another if anybody dug into it and we got some more light on the claim.

Probably a healthier attitude to take than blindly announcing one's allegiance to one set of "facts" or another.

-- Some Guy, Odin is a $hillhoe. Ignore him. Unless you're playing with him. Then by all means have fun

I like Odin.  I don't agree with him politically on a lot, but unlike most of the people here he doesn't habitually breathe through his mouth.

He IS a bit of a $hillhoe, though (I like that, am keeping it, thanks).

Honestly, watching a level-headed Midwestern white guy preaching the shibboleths of a movement that increasingly resembles the Symbionese Liberation Army in ideology (if not yet in actions, though it is beginning to look iffy) is very funny.

[SomeGuy]

Isn't every election a form of gamble?  Fail to see the cynicism in most of what you listed, but by all means, attach your "Cold-AND-Prickly!" emotional signifiers if you like.


Also, polity refers to a political entity, the word you were look for is simply politics.  Don't use words if you don't know what they mean. 

[David Horn]

(01-24-2017, 02:38 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(01-24-2017, 12:59 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: Trump's ridiculous and insulting behavior might be a deliberate ploy, to distract attention from all the damage he's doing to us in his mission of boosting his billionaire (and millionaire) class. Take away our easy access to the web, for example. Taking away our health insurance and medicare, and our public schools. Selling off our natural heritage to robber barons. Polluting our rivers, air and climate. Blowing up our national debt and our inequality with his tax breaks. Taking away civil rights protections so his mobs and blue thugs can beat up and kill blacks, hispanics and queers with impunity. Make more drone attacks that kill innocent people, and trying to steal Iraqi oil. Oh, and yes, taking away freedom of the press. Anything I've left out?

But his 40% followers don't care about his ridiculous behavior, although that's what the press focuses on. And the people remain ignorant about what he's really doing to them. Neat set up.

It could also be a ploy to shift the focus from him to a bunch of self serving (highly partisan) people who are associated with the press who are supposed to be looking out for all of us instead of just looking out for themselves, their progressive views and political preference that's associated with themselves. As a general rule, I tend to put this group of so-called journalists/people on ignore. However, since the election of Trump, I've been watching this group more on CNN. The role of the press is not to promote fear and hatred of Republicans and smear Republican presidents. The role of the press is not to show political favoritism and advance gossip and personally connect itself with and emotionally attach itself to progressive movements. You are losing America which seems to be OK with you and those like yourself. You already know where you stand with me. You already know your value to me. You already know the value that I place on your side of the Democratic party. Just so you're clear of where we are at right now. You are OK with losing/cutting its ties with America and I'm OK with America losing/cutting its ties with people like you. I'm OK with us continuing towards that goal and allowing the natural process that's taking place to continue going on as well. Madonna is no longer a focal point/ primary image associated with a young teenage males wet dream. Values change with age.

If a dog is rabid, is it fully proper to (1) warn people explicitly, (2) merely tell them about the dog's condition, or (3) engage in supposition about the actual status of the dog?  You seem to be saying that (2) is right, because the press is saying (1), but it seems to me that you really mean that they should say (3).  So which is it?

... and please give the 'America -- love it or leave it!' meme a rest.  I heard plenty of that as a young veteran opposed to the Vietnam War ... mostly from pudgy, middle aged men who never served and had no children at risk of serving.  It's easy to be a Sunshine Patriot.

[David Horn]

(01-24-2017, 04:02 PM)SomeGuy Wrote: I couldn't handle Vox, it was way too dumbed-down, smug, and "Here's what you should know" for me.  I am no longer willing to tolerate the NYT (which I would have to pay for), so really at this point my primary news sources for non-specialized info are the Atlantic and the American Conservative, which I react to in roughly the opposite proportion that you do.

But yes, Fox News and MSNBC are ridiculous, CNN has long been a joke (especially since that Malaysia flight, which I alluded to in the Fake News thread), and all in all I find myself earnestly wishing we could throw the present crop of journalists in a blender and start from scratch.

Which is a pity, I actually used to want to be a journalist at one point. 

I watch Morning Joe for entertainment, but have been surprised at the level of discourse that has arisen organically.  Since that show has plenty of high-profile types standing in line to be on the air, they have actually managed to bring a real cross-section to morning TV ... but only recently.  I'm not sure if that's accidental, or they decided that they finally needed to do something a step or two above banal.  So for as long as it lasts, I'll enjoy watching for more than chuckles.

[David Horn]

(01-24-2017, 09:31 PM)TnT Wrote:

(01-24-2017, 07:08 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Many people will have to hit bottom before they recognize what a raw deal Donald Trump is. People will need to associate the Republican Party with declining living standards, more work but less pay, environmental degradation, shattered dreams of youth, and people dying because they are priced out of medical care, and maybe loved ones returning in body bags from wars for profit  while elites flaunt extreme wealth and power.  

They get a democratic alternative or they get revolution.

Here's the trouble with that.  When the s*** hits the fan, Trump won't be blamed.  Obama will be blamed.  Hillary will be blamed. Liberals will be stereotyped, blamed and demonized.  Trump will be deployed as the pitiful victim of the left.  I truly wonder if we aren't headed for a real live civil war.

We Americans are so spoiled.  We think we are immune from the crap that happens so commonly all over the world.

I don't know about that.  Trump is really a chimera.  He is a blustery buffoon in public, but congenial and engaging in private ... or so those who know him readily admit.  Is the public side an act?  It may be.  When he is doing something that the public, and especially his followers, dislike, he rants on about something stupid, like illegal votes denying him the majority he won.  The problem with that act, it wears with age.  We'll see how long it lasts for trump.

[David Horn]

(01-25-2017, 12:35 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: ... Trump would be more politically immune than the previous presidents (Clinton, Bush II and Obama) who proceeded him. Civil War over what? A woman's right to choose or a transgenders right to choose his/her bathroom. When the crap hits the fan, I see an American flag with a few less stars or an America flag with the same amount of stars with new states with new names and that's about it. It's funny, I listen to Obama speak about America, it's resilience, it's heroism and the greatness that it represents as if he was speaking about us from a distance. I think to myself, yeah, we are a pretty good, we are pretty brave, we unite and stick together through serious stuff pretty well and you should be proud of us. Its to bad that you were taught to hate us so much by your mother and all her liberal friends and  associates and all the liberals surrounding you later on.

Unfortunately, your America is the vastly poorer half.  If it comes down a schism, don't count on doing all that well.