Let's make fun of Trump, bash him, etc. while we can!

[Classic-Xer]

(09-10-2022, 04:27 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: British and dated (related to Trump's State visit to the UK)  but worthy of recall.











Corgis are about the size of domestic cats. I figure that Obama, a dog lover, got to meet them, and Trump didn't. We will likely soon find out (the late Queen was extremely secretive!) Small dogs have big teeth and claws, and they have the power with which to express their opinions of people with those teeth and claws. Take it from me: dog claws are dangerous!

The Chaplin character (Chaplin was British) is a mockery of a real dictator, unlike the wannabe that Trump was (and still is). George Orwell... well, we know the connection to Trump, don't we?

PB, what's all this LW propaganda accomplishing these days?

[pbrower2a]

(10-06-2022, 03:15 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(09-10-2022, 04:27 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: British and dated (related to Trump's State visit to the UK)  but worthy of recall.











Corgis are about the size of domestic cats. I figure that Obama, a dog lover, got to meet them, and Trump didn't. We will likely soon find out (the late Queen was extremely secretive!) Small dogs have big teeth and claws, and they have the power with which to express their opinions of people with those teeth and claws. Take it from me: dog claws are dangerous!

The Chaplin character (Chaplin was British) is a mockery of a real dictator, unlike the wannabe that Trump was (and still is). George Orwell... well, we know the connection to Trump, don't we?

PB, what's all this LW propaganda accomplishing these days?

If you can't laugh about someone like Donald Trump, then you will cry or go mad. Can't you laugh about Trump? 

... The generational cycle may not give a perfect match. Mel Brooks would have been perfect for skewering Trump much as he skewered you-know-who, except that he is now too old to do comedy. Of course we are approaching the time in which the successors of the Silent will appear on the entertainment scene, and I expect them to do comedy well.

[pbrower2a]

(10-06-2022, 03:07 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(10-05-2022, 02:15 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

Does being referred to as   deaf, dumb and blind or simply clueless seem/sound at all familiar to you? So, have you become more independent since you elected old senile  Biden or are you still as reliant upon others  as you've been the entire time that I've known you?

I'm on the autistic spectrum, which is bad enough. Loved ones covered for me, but they really didn't let me get away with much. I needed to discover how to get away with autism so that I could live as normal a life as is possible. That means steady work that I do not hate, connections to my community, and maybe a wife and children. That's a reasonable expectation for someone with an above-average IQ and a solid moral compass. I live as close as possible to the honor code of the Service Academies -- basically 

Quote:Do not lie; do not cheat; do not steal, and do not tolerate lying, cheating, and stealing by others.  

It has different formulations in the Academies, but it also applies to all skilled trades and professions except perhaps marketing. If you lie, cheat, or steal, then you create a toxic workplace. If your workplace tolerates, let alone promotes, such, then you are in a toxic environment -- one that cheats customers in part by cutting dangerous corners. 

I thought that I had a fault of character... no, I have faulty connections between my mind and body, and they make it seem that I am a liar. I would flunk a lie-detector test even if telling the truth.

Donald Trump lies, cheats, and steals and expects others to do much the same on his behalf. That is toxic leadership. Good reason exists for that military code; misrepresentation of reality to make oneself look good or to cover up for misconduct or incompetence can get people killed in combat. Cheating to get ahead is to put oneself ahead in the competition for rank is one way to get promoted into responsibilities that one cannot handle well. Stealing takes military supplies that some other officer might need. 

Then again consider yourself in the role of an engineer. Maybe in return for a bribe you can replace standard concrete or steel to create a less stable bridge over a river for commute traffic. Should that bridge collapse, then at least morally you are a murderer -- as much a murderer as some street thug who does an armed robbery and shoots a salesclerk who is not swift enough to turn over the money or who suggests turning on a camera to detect you -- except that it could be several people at once. Misrepresenting your calculations is cheating, and it too can kill. Lying? One must lie to defend oneself against accusations of misconduct. I don't care how brilliant an engineer is, if he lies, cheats, or steals on the job in ways that compromise a project, then he should be fired and compelled to seek a career in which his misconduct is less likely to get someone killed -- like warehouse work.

 I doubt that you have ever read Nineteen Eighty-Four. It is essential for those who want to know how different the fraud of totalitarianism is from democracy. Totalitarian leaders lie all the time about everything from their desires of military aggrandizement to the validity of expectations on human rights and civil liberties. They kill anyone who gets in the way and treat the common man with gross callousness whether a worker in a plant or cannon fodder in military service. In a democracy one expects leadership to recognize human life as precious and the achievement of the desires of the common people as a desired end; in a totalitarian regime those are obstacles to the Glory of the Leader. In a democracy one generally gets what one pays for through formal taxes; totalitarian regimes bleed the common man for the egoistic indulgence of the elites and their hangers-on. The lying gets so bad, as in Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union that words become lies, and as Orwell suggests, people are stripped of the language that can even express their feelings and hopes, let alone the ability to recognize a lie for what it is because words lose their meaning. Even at the small scale of the Manson cult words lose their meaning, which shows the pathological control that Charles Manson had over his cult.    
I don't know if you have ever heard the expression "Are you going to believe me or are you going to believe your lying eyes?"  Let's make it clear that adultery is a betrayal of a marriage, and that if one sees evidence of adultery one has good cause to suspect personal betrayal. We need traveling salesmen and truck drivers who travel around the country and find themselves in the temptation, out of loneliness, boredom, and the sex drive, to cheat on a spouse. Assuming that it is Hubby who does the cheating, maybe Wifey in the Twin Cities opens the credit-card statement and finds that Hubby is making frequent purchases from a high-priced lingerie shop in Fort Worth or Fort Wayne.  Maybe he is paying something other than the Single rate at the motel. Should Wifey be concerned? If I were Wifey I would be consulting a divorce lawyer. Maybe one needs to have a private investigator follow Hubby around and  see whether someone goes into his hotel room after he checks in and whether he buys lingerie at the Cheaters Paradise store -- you know, lingerie that doesn't fit Wifey and isn't her taste. She is satisfied with lingerie from mass-manufacturers. 

(OK, I'm not going to write the book, but in Men: an Owner's Manual I would call to attention that women do not think of sexy lingerie as an appropriate gift, even such is suggested in Playboy. I would suggest that she buy sexy lingerie for her to wear as an enticing gift to him!)
I have read plenty of history, and I know to some extent how the Bolshevik Revolution took place in Russia. Events in Washington DC on January 6 fit much the same pattern. To say that the world would be a far better place had the Bolshevik Revolution failed may not be what you expect from me... but it made the fascist reaction possible and intensified hatred by the Hard Right in many countries toward Jews, culminating in the Holocaust. A bigot like Hitler thought that a Jewish small-business owner was just the same as the destructive and murderous "Jewish Bolshevik" except to have a thin veneer of respectability. Big Business in Germany wanted to destroy such small-business owners to consolidate near-monopoly more completely and found common cause with Hitler. That alliance culminated in the Holocaust. 

I've known plenty of Jews. The alleged veneer is also the deep reality, and I must recognize that Jews never persecuted my Huguenot, Quaker, and Mennonite ancestors; indeed the same sorts of people who persecuted my Huguenot, Quaker, and Mennonite ancestors also persecuted Jews.  Unless someone is trying to pull a con, most people are what they say they are. I'm satisfied that Judaism if practiced fully is pure morality. I can live with that. Antisemitism typically turns words about Jews into lies. 

...Ultimately most of us have learned that something analogous to science and jurisprudence (which both insist upon rigorous adherence to the meaning of words used in scientific contexts) applies to words. Most of us recognize that what we observe gives at the least insights into the truth unless we are dealing with a funhouse mirror or a cinematic special effect for pure entertainment. Liars often turn to code-words. 

Trump took the sorts of tiger-cub steps on the road to totalitarianism. To compare Hitler or Stalin to a man-eating tiger is to understate the horror on a gigantic stage. Gutting the meaning of words to deceive people is the worst of all lies because in addition to contradicting the truth it cripples our ability to express what is truly human. In Nineteen Eighty-Four, Winston's 'romance' with Julia so completely lacks sizzle that it is the most incompetent expression of romance in well-received literature. Then again, words have no meaning, so both Winston (who is comparatively privileged as part of the bureaucracy) lack the words that can express love. Smart people are highly verbal in the expression of love -- but not in Nineteen Eighty-Four.

[pbrower2a]

[Classic-Xer]

(10-06-2022, 08:25 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(10-06-2022, 03:15 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(09-10-2022, 04:27 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: British and dated (related to Trump's State visit to the UK)  but worthy of recall.











Corgis are about the size of domestic cats. I figure that Obama, a dog lover, got to meet them, and Trump didn't. We will likely soon find out (the late Queen was extremely secretive!) Small dogs have big teeth and claws, and they have the power with which to express their opinions of people with those teeth and claws. Take it from me: dog claws are dangerous!

The Chaplin character (Chaplin was British) is a mockery of a real dictator, unlike the wannabe that Trump was (and still is). George Orwell... well, we know the connection to Trump, don't we?

PB, what's all this LW propaganda accomplishing these days?

If you can't laugh about someone like Donald Trump, then you will cry or go mad. Can't you laugh about Trump? 

... The generational cycle may not give a perfect match. Mel Brooks would have been perfect for skewering Trump much as he skewered you-know-who, except that he is now too old to do comedy. Of course we are approaching the time in which the successors of the Silent will appear on the entertainment scene, and I expect them to do comedy well.

I laugh about you guys and the Left's obsession with Trump all the time. So, do you know that you spend the bulk of your time doing propaganda ? You're issue ain't Trump. You're issue is the worthless piece of shit that you and others elected to replace him. It's to bad the majority of the country is now paying a significant price for YOUR carelessness and utter stupidity. Like I've said, you can all starve to death, freeze to death, be beaten to death or murdered by ghetto slugs or rounded up, exterminated, grounded up and turned into fertilizer for all that I care at this point. So, I suggest that you enjoy this moment because the road ahead is going to be very rough for all you guys. Now, I'm not on your side as you know. I'm on the American side like I've always been. As I've told you, this is going to boil down to the Americans vs the Democrats and a Democratic population that's mainly aloof, worried about other issues than what matters to most and finding itself in a position of being decimated.

[pbrower2a]

(10-07-2022, 11:47 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I laugh about you guys and the Left's obsession with Trump all the time. So, do you know that you spend the bulk of your time doing propaganda ? You're issue ain't Trump. You're issue is the worthless piece of shit that you and others elected to replace him. It's to bad the majority of the country is now paying a significant price for YOUR carelessness and utter stupidity. Like I've said, you can all starve to death, freeze to death, be beaten to death or murdered by ghetto slugs or rounded up, exterminated, grounded up and turned into fertilizer for all that I care at this point. So, I suggest that you enjoy this moment because the road ahead is going to be very rough for all you guys. Now, I'm not on your side as you know. I'm on the American side like I've always been. As I've told you, this is going to boil down to the Americans vs the Democrats and a Democratic population that's mainly aloof, worried about other issues than what matters to most and finding itself in a position of being decimated.

It's Trump who is worthless. 

You have a fantasy of us liberals being killed if we don't accept your vision little different from Donald Trump's syphilitic rants. It's sick. Get help!

I look forward to convincing your kids that what you consider American isn't definitively American. Aside perhaps from English as a language of convenience, about all that is truly American is our Constitutional style of government, free and fair elections, and (in general) free enterprise -- and a respect for the rule of law which allows people very different from each other to get along. 

I took a road-trip that took me through Chicago and the southern part of Wisconsin. Small towns in Wisconsin are mostly lily-white (although I did have lunch in a Mexican restaurant -- the food is tasty and inexpensive... ownership and staff seemed nice enough), but I look as if I could fit in among the Anglo majority. Not that that is important. On the way to Wisconsin I went through a Chicago neighborhood going from "Polish" to "Mexican" and saw no obvious stress. I saw the site of the first Lincoln-Douglas debate and the Congressional office of hero Adam Kinzinger.  On the way back I also went to Chicago and ended up in its Chinatown. I was lost, and I asked directions and got them from people friendly enough. 

As far as I could tell people that diverse are not at each others' throats. Of course I did see a news story from Scary (Freudian slip) Gary, Indiana. Four murders in three different gun-related incidents in one day.  That sort of behavior really is un-American because it is lawless. Maybe it should be easier to get a job, welfare, or a college education than to get a firearm. It isn't race; most blacks hate that sort of violence. Needless to say I had no desire to see the birthplace of the Jackson family in Gary strong enough to offset my fear of a truly and tragically dangerous place. .

What really is American is that we may be different, but we are not after each others' throats. We may recognize our obvious differences in religion and ethnic origin, but we recognize people who look much unlike ourselves as no less American than ourselves. E pluribus unum has a subtly different meaning today than it did in 1787 when it was thirteen recent colonies and by 1791 one former independent republic (Vermont).

[Bob Butler 54]

(10-07-2022, 11:47 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I laugh about you guys and the Left's obsession with Trump all the time.

For me the conflict is more about ideas than a person, but Trump’s and the conservative policy exemplify the wrong ideas.  At the highest level, the wrong sort of people seek to control others.  The opposite is obviously independence from that control, as exemplified be equality and freedom.

The issues?  Abortion, in not having the religious enforce their belief on those with different values.  Racism.  Criminality.  Containment.  Elites.  None of these issues are particularly new, invented by Trump, or apt to disappear with Trump.  But he sure makes a nice symbol of what has been perpetually wrong with America, has been wrong since the founder’s time.  He has sure tried to take various aspects of the conservative movement down the wrong path.  I consider taking down Trump as less important than taking down the wrong parts of America.

The good part I suppose is giving the crisis a focus.  By being the obvious ideal of what is wrong, it makes true Americans ready to move to what is correct.

[pbrower2a]

(10-07-2022, 04:10 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(10-07-2022, 11:47 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I laugh about you guys and the Left's obsession with Trump all the time.

For me the conflict is more about ideas than a person, but Trump’s and the conservative policy exemplify the wrong ideas.  At the highest level, the wrong sort of people seek to control others.  The opposite is obviously independence from that control, as exemplified be equality and freedom.

The issues?  Abortion, in not having the religious enforce their belief on those with different values.  Racism.  Criminality.  Containment.  Elites.  None of these issues are particularly new, invented by Trump, or apt to disappear with Trump.  But he sure makes a nice symbol of what has been perpetually wrong with America, has been wrong since the founder’s time.  He has sure tried to take various aspects of the conservative movement down the wrong path.  I consider taking down Trump as less important than taking down the wrong parts of America.

The good part I suppose is giving the crisis a focus.  By being the obvious ideal of what is wrong, it makes true Americans ready to move to what is correct.

It's Trumpism that must die. Trump believes in nothing other than himself. He would offer boilerplate liberalism if it got him elected. The problem is that  liberals are fussy about morality and ideological consistency and moral conduct. Right-wing authoritarians are not. 

Paraphrasing Bob Altmeyer on right-wing authoritarians and their tolerance for people who tell them what they want to hear yet have done evil:

Suppose you are a slime-ball politician with far more ambition than conviction. You plotted and participated in a coup against the democratically-elected government of the second-largest subdivision (by population) in your country. So what do you do? You offer a law-and-order campaign in which miscreants and pariahs are to be punished severely for national hardships. You align yourself with people delighted to strip freedom from others who resist your beloved near-monopoly and super-cheap labor. You appeal to nationalist resentments and seek to restore a former glory. 

Here is the slime-ball politician:


     

Yes, Hitler was an extreme example of a right-wing authoritarian, a cruel and unprincipled opportunist, and we know his worst from his deeds as Fuehrer. Once in power he committed his country to monumental risks, severe and pointless injustice, and extreme suffering on behalf of his glorification in historical achievements.  

In setting up an experiment to see how right-wing authoritarians (RWA)  behaved, so that it wasn't simply an assessment of a few pathological figures of history Altmeyer set up a Risk-like game in which players exposed their character in simulations of international policies. The non-RWA solved their problems with calm and moderate diplomacy. With some of the RWA players one had nuclear blackmail that culminated in nuclear war. RWA types have an extreme "us and them" view of the world.

Someone like me might resolve the threat of global warming with worldwide ZPG, reformed policies of land use and heavy taxes on energy use. I have no desire to consign tens of millions of Bangladeshi peasant farmers to inundation or to let southeastern Europe go from rich grain country (like central Illinois) to   not-so-rich rangeland with a huge reduction of the world's crop production. I recognize politics as give-and-take. As I see it there is no techno-fix for mass hunger; all the technological wonders and cultural richness of our world mean nothing to those starving to death.  

I wonder what Classic X'er thinks of this.

[pbrower2a]

[Eric the Green]

I was going to post this too LOL

[pbrower2a]

(10-07-2022, 11:47 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(10-06-2022, 08:25 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(10-06-2022, 03:15 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(09-10-2022, 04:27 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: British and dated (related to Trump's State visit to the UK)  but worthy of recall.






Corgis are about the size of domestic cats. I figure that Obama, a dog lover, got to meet them, and Trump didn't. We will likely soon find out (the late Queen was extremely secretive!) Small dogs have big teeth and claws, and they have the power with which to express their opinions of people with those teeth and claws. Take it from me: dog claws are dangerous!

The Chaplin character (Chaplin was British) is a mockery of a real dictator, unlike the wannabe that Trump was (and still is). George Orwell... well, we know the connection to Trump, don't we?

PB, what's all this LW propaganda accomplishing these days?

If you can't laugh about someone like Donald Trump, then you will cry or go mad. Can't you laugh about Trump? 

... The generational cycle may not give a perfect match. Mel Brooks would have been perfect for skewering Trump much as he skewered you-know-who, except that he is now too old to do comedy. Of course we are approaching the time in which the successors of the Silent will appear on the entertainment scene, and I expect them to do comedy well.

I laugh about you guys and the Left's obsession with Trump all the time. So, do you know that you spend the bulk of your time doing propaganda ? You're issue ain't Trump. You're issue is the worthless piece of shit that you and others elected to replace him. It's to bad the majority of the country is now paying a significant price for YOUR carelessness and utter stupidity. Like I've said, you can all starve to death, freeze to death, be beaten to death or murdered by ghetto slugs or rounded up, exterminated, grounded up and turned into fertilizer for all that I care at this point. So, I suggest that you enjoy this moment because the road ahead is going to be very rough for all you guys. Now, I'm not on your side as you know. I'm on the American side like I've always been. As I've told you, this is going to boil down to the Americans vs the Democrats and a Democratic population that's mainly aloof, worried about other issues than what matters to most and finding itself in a position of being decimated.

I live in Michigan, and we Michigan liberals had much to dread going into the 2022 election. Michigan went from having 14 to 13 Congressional Representatives. and the GOP was the Party to lose a seat. Democrats swept statewide offices against some extremists and loonies (sometimes both). By referendum we have one of the most liberal stands on abortion and contraception. We liberals get a little delight laughing at some of the nutcases that they defeated at the polls. let alone those terrorists convicted for plotting to kidnap our Governor. Of course we need stop laughing as we have work to do to make Michigan better. 

Classic X'er, what constitutes America is changing under your nose. You are on the side of cruelty, which has much the same consequences whether Commies, fascists, or people simply  full of ethnic hatreds exercise it. E pluribus unum has grown from thirteen recently-freed colonies trying to piece together a national entity to fifty in the most powerful empire that the world has known. Unlike the other empires this one is an Empire of Liberty. But not only has E pluribus unum gone from referring to a political entity with thirteen stars on its flag to one with fifty, it also refers to a multi-ethnic society in which most of us recognize the validity of very different religious and ethnic origins having traditions appropriate for themselves. Most of us recognize those traditions as far more enriching than divisive. If we keep things this way we keep our freedom and likely make any attack upon the USA a catastrophic blunder. If we abandon our respect for difference in America, then the USA will implode much as did the Austro-Hungarian Empire and the Soviet Union did.  The United States is not a nation-state. As it is we have in our cultural heritage such comic geniuses as Charlie Chaplin and Mel Brooks ridiculing the vilest people to have ever lived and getting away with it.  

As a liberal I have had to consider what such a concept as "law and order" means. Genuine law and order is the most important of all civil rights because without it no life or property is safe. Freedom of speech means nothing if a lynch mob can punish the expression of ideas that that lynch mob thinks worthy of a hanging or tarring-and-feathering. Freedom of religion means nothing if one can detonate a bomb or mow people down at a place of worship with impunity. I am firmly for LGBT rights because such make life safer for someone like me who has been attacked for real or imagined homosexuality  (I'm straight. Gay porn does not turn me on). I'm not saying that we need brutal enforcement of the laws, only fair and effective even if rigid. 

Donald Trump is becoming an object of ridicule in America as the political climate changes. Remember that we are much closer to the end of this 4T today than we were a week ago -- just as people were starting to cast ballots on the last day of the 2022 election. Donald Trump failed to do what other defeated one-term Presidents have typically done, which is to separate oneself from partisan politics. Loudmouth boor as Trump is, he chose to act as if he were rightfully still President.   His stench still permeates our political reality. It is just as well. Trump remains all too real.

[Classic-Xer]

(11-15-2022, 08:59 AM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(10-07-2022, 11:47 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(10-06-2022, 08:25 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(10-06-2022, 03:15 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(09-10-2022, 04:27 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: British and dated (related to Trump's State visit to the UK)  but worthy of recall.






Corgis are about the size of domestic cats. I figure that Obama, a dog lover, got to meet them, and Trump didn't. We will likely soon find out (the late Queen was extremely secretive!) Small dogs have big teeth and claws, and they have the power with which to express their opinions of people with those teeth and claws. Take it from me: dog claws are dangerous!

The Chaplin character (Chaplin was British) is a mockery of a real dictator, unlike the wannabe that Trump was (and still is). George Orwell... well, we know the connection to Trump, don't we?

PB, what's all this LW propaganda accomplishing these days?

If you can't laugh about someone like Donald Trump, then you will cry or go mad. Can't you laugh about Trump? 

... The generational cycle may not give a perfect match. Mel Brooks would have been perfect for skewering Trump much as he skewered you-know-who, except that he is now too old to do comedy. Of course we are approaching the time in which the successors of the Silent will appear on the entertainment scene, and I expect them to do comedy well.

I laugh about you guys and the Left's obsession with Trump all the time. So, do you know that you spend the bulk of your time doing propaganda ? You're issue ain't Trump. You're issue is the worthless piece of shit that you and others elected to replace him. It's to bad the majority of the country is now paying a significant price for YOUR carelessness and utter stupidity. Like I've said, you can all starve to death, freeze to death, be beaten to death or murdered by ghetto slugs or rounded up, exterminated, grounded up and turned into fertilizer for all that I care at this point. So, I suggest that you enjoy this moment because the road ahead is going to be very rough for all you guys. Now, I'm not on your side as you know. I'm on the American side like I've always been. As I've told you, this is going to boil down to the Americans vs the Democrats and a Democratic population that's mainly aloof, worried about other issues than what matters to most and finding itself in a position of being decimated.

I live in Michigan, and we Michigan liberals had much to dread going into the 2022 election. Michigan went from having 14 to 13 Congressional Representatives. and the GOP was the Party to lose a seat. Democrats swept statewide offices against some extremists and loonies (sometimes both). By referendum we have one of the most liberal stands on abortion and contraception. We liberals get a little delight laughing at some of the nutcases that they defeated at the polls. let alone those terrorists convicted for plotting to kidnap our Governor. Of course we need stop laughing as we have work to do to make Michigan better. 

Classic X'er, what constitutes America is changing under your nose. You are on the side of cruelty, which has much the same consequences whether Commies, fascists, or people simply  full of ethnic hatreds exercise it. E pluribus unum has grown from thirteen recently-freed colonies trying to piece together a national entity to fifty in the most powerful empire that the world has known. Unlike the other empires this one is an Empire of Liberty. But not only has E pluribus unum gone from referring to a political entity with thirteen stars on its flag to one with fifty, it also refers to a multi-ethnic society in which most of us recognize the validity of very different religious and ethnic origins having traditions appropriate for themselves. Most of us recognize those traditions as far more enriching than divisive. If we keep things this way we keep our freedom and likely make any attack upon the USA a catastrophic blunder. If we abandon our respect for difference in America, then the USA will implode much as did the Austro-Hungarian Empire and the Soviet Union did.  The United States is not a nation-state. As it is we have in our cultural heritage such comic geniuses as Charlie Chaplin and Mel Brooks ridiculing the vilest people to have ever lived and getting away with it.  

As a liberal I have had to consider what such a concept as "law and order" means. Genuine law and order is the most important of all civil rights because without it no life or property is safe. Freedom of speech means nothing if a lynch mob can punish the expression of ideas that that lynch mob thinks worthy of a hanging or tarring-and-feathering. Freedom of religion means nothing if one can detonate a bomb or mow people down at a place of worship with impunity. I am firmly for LGBT rights because such make life safer for someone like me who has been attacked for real or imagined homosexuality  (I'm straight. Gay porn does not turn me on). I'm not saying that we need brutal enforcement of the laws, only fair and effective even if rigid. 

Donald Trump is becoming an object of ridicule in America as the political climate changes. Remember that we are much closer to the end of this 4T today than we were a week ago -- just as people were starting to cast ballots on the last day of the 2022 election. Donald Trump failed to do what other defeated one-term Presidents have typically done, which is to separate oneself from partisan politics. Loudmouth boor as Trump is, he chose to act as if he were rightfully still President.   His stench still permeates our political reality. It is just as well. Trump remains all too real.

Your right, you shouldn't laugh, you have bigger problems and way more promises to keep or come through on than those you've depicted as extremists that you defeated. Like I said College Boy, some day you're going have to explain how the Democrats are going to keep up with all Liberal wants and needs when they're no longer able to function and live off the taxes of the entire country. I want to see the look on Chucky's, Kamala's and Barrack's face when all they have is each other to leach off and only about a 1/3 of the US economy. Like I said, the Democratic population better start showing on the other side of the political divide that they care about the country before they find themselves being the idiots stuck smack dab in the middle of a civil war. Like I said, I'm one step closer to having the right to kill your dumb ass thanks to your incompetent leadership and the millions who seem to value the Democratic Party and that's about it these days. Don't tell me that you're not in that group because you've already proven it to me time after time. I going to ask you a question, did Trump hang the American troops serving in Afghanistan out to dry and kill 13 of them in the process? Nope, it was the old worthless piece of shit that you elected. Get ready PB, it's not going to be fun for any of you from now til 2024. We're going to be hounding you and leaning on you in ways that you've never been hounded or leaned on before. I'll be coming at you like the good old days in ways you've never seen before dude. Btw, his stench does permeate more than the stench of the decaying Democratic Dinosaur that you elected in 2024 or the stench of the Democratic shit holes that are getting worse or the shortages and rising costs of livings that persist.

[Classic-Xer]

(10-07-2022, 04:10 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(10-07-2022, 11:47 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I laugh about you guys and the Left's obsession with Trump all the time.

For me the conflict is more about ideas than a person, but Trump’s and the conservative policy exemplify the wrong ideas.  At the highest level, the wrong sort of people seek to control others.  The opposite is obviously independence from that control, as exemplified be equality and freedom.

The issues?  Abortion, in not having the religious enforce their belief on those with different values.  Racism.  Criminality.  Containment.  Elites.  None of these issues are particularly new, invented by Trump, or apt to disappear with Trump.  But he sure makes a nice symbol of what has been perpetually wrong with America, has been wrong since the founder’s time.  He has sure tried to take various aspects of the conservative movement down the wrong path.  I consider taking down Trump as less important than taking down the wrong parts of America.

The good part I suppose is giving the crisis a focus.  By being the obvious ideal of what is wrong, it makes true Americans ready to move to what is correct.

I'm in the group of Americans that don't care about about abortion one way or the other. I wonder if the woman's right to an abortion is more important the woman's right to eat, work and provide for their children or even live for that matter. I don't know, time may tell. Bob, aren't you the one who preached about values lock and tribalism. We aren't in crisis ye and that's the only reason why you're still in the game at this point. You may feel as if you're ( the Liberals) in crisis but the rest of country ain't there yet and may even be wise enough to opt out and more less hang Biden, the Democrats and whatever is left of the GOP establishment out to dry before getting there. I mean, it's not like the American people don't have the right to do so at anytime during the Crisis. Bob, to be honest, I don't really care what happens to Democratic supporters these days.

[pbrower2a]

(11-16-2022, 10:37 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(11-15-2022, 08:59 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: [quote pid='82784' dateline='1665161238']
[quote pid='82781' dateline='1665105951']
[quote pid='82777' dateline='1665087347']
If you can't laugh about someone like Donald Trump, then you will cry or go mad. Can't you laugh about Trump? 

... The generational cycle may not give a perfect match. Mel Brooks would have been perfect for skewering Trump much as he skewered you-know-who, except that he is now too old to do comedy. Of course we are approaching the time in which the successors of the Silent will appear on the entertainment scene, and I expect them to do comedy well.

I laugh about you guys and the Left's obsession with Trump all the time. So, do you know that you spend the bulk of your time doing propaganda ? You're issue ain't Trump. You're issue is the worthless piece of shit that you and others elected to replace him. It's to bad the majority of the country is now paying a significant price for YOUR carelessness and utter stupidity. Like I've said, you can all starve to death, freeze to death, be beaten to death or murdered by ghetto slugs or rounded up, exterminated, grounded up and turned into fertilizer for all that I care at this point. So, I suggest that you enjoy this moment because the road ahead is going to be very rough for all you guys. Now, I'm not on your side as you know. I'm on the American side like I've always been. As I've told you, this is going to boil down to the Americans vs the Democrats and a Democratic population that's mainly aloof, worried about other issues than what matters to most and finding itself in a position of being decimated.
[/quote]

I live in Michigan, and we Michigan liberals had much to dread going into the 2022 election. Michigan went from having 14 to 13 Congressional Representatives. and the GOP was the Party to lose a seat. Democrats swept statewide offices against some extremists and loonies (sometimes both). By referendum we have one of the most liberal stands on abortion and contraception. We liberals get a little delight laughing at some of the nutcases that they defeated at the polls. let alone those terrorists convicted for plotting to kidnap our Governor. Of course we need stop laughing as we have work to do to make Michigan better. 

Classic X'er, what constitutes America is changing under your nose. You are on the side of cruelty, which has much the same consequences whether Commies, fascists, or people simply  full of ethnic hatreds exercise it. E pluribus unum has grown from thirteen recently-freed colonies trying to piece together a national entity to fifty in the most powerful empire that the world has known. Unlike the other empires this one is an Empire of Liberty. But not only has E pluribus unum gone from referring to a political entity with thirteen stars on its flag to one with fifty, it also refers to a multi-ethnic society in which most of us recognize the validity of very different religious and ethnic origins having traditions appropriate for themselves. Most of us recognize those traditions as far more enriching than divisive. If we keep things this way we keep our freedom and likely make any attack upon the USA a catastrophic blunder. If we abandon our respect for difference in America, then the USA will implode much as did the Austro-Hungarian Empire and the Soviet Union did.  The United States is not a nation-state. As it is we have in our cultural heritage such comic geniuses as Charlie Chaplin and Mel Brooks ridiculing the vilest people to have ever lived and getting away with it.  

As a liberal I have had to consider what such a concept as "law and order" means. Genuine law and order is the most important of all civil rights because without it no life or property is safe. Freedom of speech means nothing if a lynch mob can punish the expression of ideas that that lynch mob thinks worthy of a hanging or tarring-and-feathering. Freedom of religion means nothing if one can detonate a bomb or mow people down at a place of worship with impunity. I am firmly for LGBT rights because such make life safer for someone like me who has been attacked for real or imagined homosexuality  (I'm straight. Gay porn does not turn me on). I'm not saying that we need brutal enforcement of the laws, only fair and effective even if rigid. 

Donald Trump is becoming an object of ridicule in America as the political climate changes. Remember that we are much closer to the end of this 4T today than we were a week ago -- just as people were starting to cast ballots on the last day of the 2022 election. Donald Trump failed to do what other defeated one-term Presidents have typically done, which is to separate oneself from partisan politics. Loudmouth boor as Trump is, he chose to act as if he were rightfully still President.   His stench still permeates our political reality. It is just as well. Trump remains all too real.
[/quote]

Your right, you shouldn't laugh, you have bigger problems and way more promises to keep or come through on than those you've depicted as extremists that you defeated. Like I said College Boy, some day you're going have to explain how the Democrats are going to keep up with all Liberal wants and needs when they're no longer able to function and live off the taxes of the entire country. I want to see the look on Chucky's, Kamala's and Barrack's face when all they have is each other to leach off and only about a 1/3 of the US economy. Like I said, the Democratic population better start showing on the other side of the political divide that they care about the country before they find themselves being the idiots stuck smack dab in the middle of a civil war. Like I said, I'm one step closer to having the right to kill your dumb ass thanks to your incompetent leadership and the millions who seem to value the Democratic Party and that's about it these days. Don't tell me that you're not in that group because you've already proven it to me time after time. I going to ask you a question, did Trump hang the American troops serving in Afghanistan out to dry and kill 13 of them in the process? Nope, it was the old worthless piece of shit that you elected. Get ready PB, it's not going to be fun for any of you from now til 2024. We're going to be hounding you and leaning on you in ways that you've never been hounded or leaned on before. I'll be coming at you like the good old days in ways you've never seen before dude. Btw, his stench does permeate more than the stench of the decaying Democratic Dinosaur that you elected in 2024 or the stench of the Democratic shit holes that are getting worse or the shortages and rising costs of livings that persist.
[/quote]

This is far better than your apparent dream of an economy that makes prosperity only for the Rich and Powerful aside from what those elites deem necessary to keep the proles alive to continue working perhaps 60 hours a week until they are worn out by age 40 so that their kiddies can work in the Dark Satanic Mills. Maybe small farmers survive only to be taxed savagely so that they must work over 80 hours a week to maintain the faced of independence (the food is being requisitioned for next-to-nothing for sale by the corrupt elites or to feed a war machine intent on imposing a perverse version of an American Way of sort-of-Life on people who have every cause to resist it. 

I am convinced that any economic collapse will have its origin in the failure of bureaucratized, inflexible, corrupt organizations recently described as Too Big to Fail that might not face a government to bail out entities too corrupt to compete or too inflexible to adapt. When that happens we are going to find that many shareholders find their assets worthless and executives who can never explain what they are achieving other than to bar competition with them for roles at the top find themselves fired -- while at the same time the investment firms that hold their retirement accounts in what were recently "good stocks" are unable to make the pension payments. 

Who is going to survive? People who do honest work, people who can see what they are doing as toilers and small-scale entrepreneurs. As the (right-wing) science-fiction writer Robert Heinlein put it, society divides into "makers, takers, and fakers". Of course plenty of corporate bureaucrats who drain the life out of corporate behemoths through bloated bureaucracies are both takers and fakers. In the 1930's America had a government that had to connect its tax-collection with doing obvious good for people, and plenty of small businesses came into being. After all, high-quality labor was available cheaply; real estate was cheap, as were supplies and machinery; merchandise was available at fire-sale prices without the smoky aroma. If you started a retail business your employees would try to get their extended families to shop or eat there to help keep those employees at work. We'd see plenty of cottage industries appearing in the wreckage of beached-whale businesses.  

Those who do not do heavy work or own their own shops    

As for Afghanistan, the nominally-independent government of Afghanistan was riddled with military officers who had to choose between resisting the Taliban and being hanged for military resistance along with their families or to submit to Taliban subjection. Trump cut the deal.

Donald Trump is still a horrible person, and had he let the normal course of events take place in a midterm election, then maybe most of us liberals would be looking for ways in which to get out while the leaving is good.  Two questions to ask of any politician:

1. Do his stated values and personal life fit your idea of goodness? If both are OK, then you have other questions. Donald Trump left plenty of signs that he would be a dreadful President such as mocking the handicapped, showing support for dictatorial regimes hostile to American and other democracy, and disrespecting military service. His family life? Fine -- if you want a Borgia-style or even Gotti-style family. (I'm not knocking Italian-Americans, most of whom want nothing to do with Mafia types). It is hard for me to imagine anyone calling himself a defender of "Christian" family values supporting that rogue.

2. Does he have a political record supporting high public office? Except for knowing whom to bribe, Trump knew nothing about governing. Business does not count.  Businesses fire people all the time; the President cannot fire a letter carrier or demand a dishonorable discharge for a soldier who shows 'inadequate' enthusiasm for him, let alone a federal judge or any elected official. Government must work with what is already there because of the political process or civil-service rules. 

3. Is he an extremist? Then if so -- it is a clear no. 

After that you are on your own. Trump failed on all three.

[Eric the Green]

(11-16-2022, 10:37 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(11-15-2022, 08:59 AM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(10-07-2022, 11:47 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(10-06-2022, 08:25 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(10-06-2022, 03:15 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: PB, what's all this LW propaganda accomplishing these days?

If you can't laugh about someone like Donald Trump, then you will cry or go mad. Can't you laugh about Trump? 

... The generational cycle may not give a perfect match. Mel Brooks would have been perfect for skewering Trump much as he skewered you-know-who, except that he is now too old to do comedy. Of course we are approaching the time in which the successors of the Silent will appear on the entertainment scene, and I expect them to do comedy well.

I laugh about you guys and the Left's obsession with Trump all the time. So, do you know that you spend the bulk of your time doing propaganda ? You're issue ain't Trump. You're issue is the worthless piece of shit that you and others elected to replace him. It's to bad the majority of the country is now paying a significant price for YOUR carelessness and utter stupidity. Like I've said, you can all starve to death, freeze to death, be beaten to death or murdered by ghetto slugs or rounded up, exterminated, grounded up and turned into fertilizer for all that I care at this point. So, I suggest that you enjoy this moment because the road ahead is going to be very rough for all you guys. Now, I'm not on your side as you know. I'm on the American side like I've always been. As I've told you, this is going to boil down to the Americans vs the Democrats and a Democratic population that's mainly aloof, worried about other issues than what matters to most and finding itself in a position of being decimated.

I live in Michigan, and we Michigan liberals had much to dread going into the 2022 election. Michigan went from having 14 to 13 Congressional Representatives. and the GOP was the Party to lose a seat. Democrats swept statewide offices against some extremists and loonies (sometimes both). By referendum we have one of the most liberal stands on abortion and contraception. We liberals get a little delight laughing at some of the nutcases that they defeated at the polls. let alone those terrorists convicted for plotting to kidnap our Governor. Of course we need stop laughing as we have work to do to make Michigan better. 

Classic X'er, what constitutes America is changing under your nose. You are on the side of cruelty, which has much the same consequences whether Commies, fascists, or people simply  full of ethnic hatreds exercise it. E pluribus unum has grown from thirteen recently-freed colonies trying to piece together a national entity to fifty in the most powerful empire that the world has known. Unlike the other empires this one is an Empire of Liberty. But not only has E pluribus unum gone from referring to a political entity with thirteen stars on its flag to one with fifty, it also refers to a multi-ethnic society in which most of us recognize the validity of very different religious and ethnic origins having traditions appropriate for themselves. Most of us recognize those traditions as far more enriching than divisive. If we keep things this way we keep our freedom and likely make any attack upon the USA a catastrophic blunder. If we abandon our respect for difference in America, then the USA will implode much as did the Austro-Hungarian Empire and the Soviet Union did.  The United States is not a nation-state. As it is we have in our cultural heritage such comic geniuses as Charlie Chaplin and Mel Brooks ridiculing the vilest people to have ever lived and getting away with it.  

As a liberal I have had to consider what such a concept as "law and order" means. Genuine law and order is the most important of all civil rights because without it no life or property is safe. Freedom of speech means nothing if a lynch mob can punish the expression of ideas that that lynch mob thinks worthy of a hanging or tarring-and-feathering. Freedom of religion means nothing if one can detonate a bomb or mow people down at a place of worship with impunity. I am firmly for LGBT rights because such make life safer for someone like me who has been attacked for real or imagined homosexuality  (I'm straight. Gay porn does not turn me on). I'm not saying that we need brutal enforcement of the laws, only fair and effective even if rigid. 

Donald Trump is becoming an object of ridicule in America as the political climate changes. Remember that we are much closer to the end of this 4T today than we were a week ago -- just as people were starting to cast ballots on the last day of the 2022 election. Donald Trump failed to do what other defeated one-term Presidents have typically done, which is to separate oneself from partisan politics. Loudmouth boor as Trump is, he chose to act as if he were rightfully still President.   His stench still permeates our political reality. It is just as well. Trump remains all too real.

Your right, you shouldn't laugh, you have bigger problems and way more promises to keep or come through on than those you've depicted as extremists that you defeated. Like I said College Boy, some day you're going have to explain how the Democrats are going to keep up with all Liberal wants and needs when they're no longer able to function and live off the taxes of the entire country. I want to see the look on Chucky's, Kamala's and Barrack's face when all they have is each other to leach off and only about a 1/3 of the US economy. Like I said, the Democratic population better start showing on the other side of the political divide that they care about the country before they find themselves being the idiots stuck smack dab in the middle of a civil war. Like I said, I'm one step closer to having the right to kill your dumb ass thanks to your incompetent leadership and the millions who seem to value the Democratic Party and that's about it these days. Don't tell me that you're not in that group because you've already proven it to me time after time. I going to ask you a question, did Trump hang the American troops serving in Afghanistan out to dry and kill 13 of them in the process? Nope, it was the old worthless piece of shit that you elected. Get ready PB, it's not going to be fun for any of you from now til 2024. We're going to be hounding you and leaning on you in ways that you've never been hounded or leaned on before. I'll be coming at you like the good old days in ways you've never seen before dude. Btw, his stench does permeate more than the stench of the decaying Democratic Dinosaur that you elected in 2024 or the stench of the Democratic shit holes that are getting worse or the shortages and rising costs of livings that persist.

Hey you worthless piece of shit, ha ha! You forget that young people support Democrats in huge numbers!

[pbrower2a]

[pbrower2a]

[Classic-Xer]

(11-17-2022, 06:39 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: This is far better than your apparent dream of an economy that makes prosperity only for the Rich and Powerful aside from what those elites deem necessary to keep the proles alive to continue working perhaps 60 hours a week until they are worn out by age 40 so that their kiddies can work in the Dark Satanic Mills. Maybe small farmers survive only to be taxed savagely so that they must work over 80 hours a week to maintain the faced of independence (the food is being requisitioned for next-to-nothing for sale by the corrupt elites or to feed a war machine intent on imposing a perverse version of an American Way of sort-of-Life on people who have every cause to resist it. 

I am convinced that any economic collapse will have its origin in the failure of bureaucratized, inflexible, corrupt organizations recently described as Too Big to Fail that might not face a government to bail out entities too corrupt to compete or too inflexible to adapt. When that happens we are going to find that many shareholders find their assets worthless and executives who can never explain what they are achieving other than to bar competition with them for roles at the top find themselves fired -- while at the same time the investment firms that hold their retirement accounts in what were recently "good stocks" are unable to make the pension payments. 

Who is going to survive? People who do honest work, people who can see what they are doing as toilers and small-scale entrepreneurs. As the (right-wing) science-fiction writer Robert Heinlein put it, society divides into "makers, takers, and fakers". Of course plenty of corporate bureaucrats who drain the life out of corporate behemoths through bloated bureaucracies are both takers and fakers. In the 1930's America had a government that had to connect its tax-collection with doing obvious good for people, and plenty of small businesses came into being. After all, high-quality labor was available cheaply; real estate was cheap, as were supplies and machinery; merchandise was available at fire-sale prices without the smoky aroma. If you started a retail business your employees would try to get their extended families to shop or eat there to help keep those employees at work. We'd see plenty of cottage industries appearing in the wreckage of beached-whale businesses.  

Those who do not do heavy work or own their own shops    

As for Afghanistan, the nominally-independent government of Afghanistan was riddled with military officers who had to choose between resisting the Taliban and being hanged for military resistance along with their families or to submit to Taliban subjection. Trump cut the deal.

Donald Trump is still a horrible person, and had he let the normal course of events take place in a midterm election, then maybe most of us liberals would be looking for ways in which to get out while the leaving is good.  Two questions to ask of any politician:

1. Do his stated values and personal life fit your idea of goodness? If both are OK, then you have other questions. Donald Trump left plenty of signs that he would be a dreadful President such as mocking the handicapped, showing support for dictatorial regimes hostile to American and other democracy, and disrespecting military service. His family life? Fine -- if you want a Borgia-style or even Gotti-style family. (I'm not knocking Italian-Americans, most of whom want nothing to do with Mafia types). It is hard for me to imagine anyone calling himself a defender of "Christian" family values supporting that rogue.

2. Does he have a political record supporting high public office? Except for knowing whom to bribe, Trump knew nothing about governing. Business does not count.  Businesses fire people all the time; the President cannot fire a letter carrier or demand a dishonorable discharge for a soldier who shows 'inadequate' enthusiasm for him, let alone a federal judge or any elected official. Government must work with what is already there because of the political process or civil-service rules. 

3. Is he an extremist? Then if so -- it is a clear no. 

After that you are on your own. Trump failed on all three.

The American economy has worked pretty good for me and just about everyone that I know (Democrats, Republicans and Independents) so far. I doubt it has worked as well for you and those who vote Democrat on the basis of survival. As I've mentioned before, I don't vote Republican on the basis of survival or economics (lively hood is directly attached to federal or state funding one way or another) so to speak. I'm in the group of taxpayers that pay the bulk of the taxes and we both know what the result is going to be when the Democrats ( the more greedy, power hungry and the more reliant on higher levels of taxation of the two parties) and their supporters find out that they're on verge of losing most of them and facing the distinct possibility of a nasty civil war with millions of American revolutionaries dedicated to preserving/defending the founding principles principles freedom and the American way of life. Time will prove that you are on the wrong side of the conflict that's coming regardless of political outcome. Like I said, you are on the verge of giving me the freedom to kill your dumb ass. It's kind of funny that a college boy like yourself ain't smart enough aka wise enough to figure that out yourself. BTW, the majority of those who own shops are either doing the heavy work themselves or did the heavy themselves before growing and becoming more successful as a busing and being able to afford others doing it for them. It's funny how an old college boy like yourself ain't smart enough to know that either.

Here's what we know about Biden to date , Biden has already proven to be a weak and largely incompetent leader or in layman's a colossal fuck up/failure aka A Big Mistake. Now, I understand that the Republicans who signed off on his election and are more or less attached to his success/failure and whatever has been agreed upon and passed so far have no alternative than to continue going along, keeping quiet about all the Democratic related shit America has been seeing for the last three years and continue supporting like they've been doing while Biden has been in office. As goes Biden, so goes them and they understand that if Biden and their neo liberal based system fails that they're all toast and they'd be better off dead than being caught and facing the consequences associated with a colossal failure. To be honest, I think America will opt to wash its hand and move on as a new nation and leave Washington DC and the Democratic states behind to deal with they're own demise. Like I said, it won't take long for the American states to ratify the US Constitution and purchase the original document from a failing or failed Democratic state.

[Classic-Xer]

(11-17-2022, 06:39 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

Pb, Hitler was elected and took advantage of the situation and seized power. Trump did the exact opposite of Hitler during the COVID19 crisis. He remained true to the US Constitution and delegated authority to the states and did nothing to threaten the rights of the American people. You don't grasp that because you're a partisan hack who is into spreading Left Wing propaganda like this. I'm going to ask you a real life question, when the war comes between those on today's American Right and The Democrats and whatever GOP's are foolish enough to side with them, how long do you think you're going to live? I see 4 Left Wing propagandists and one half wit named Bob posting here and being confronted and often warning them of what's to come and often telling what to expect as far as treatment by just one of the multiple millions of American Right Wingers that currently exist/ live throughout the entire country today.

[Eric the Green]

(11-17-2022, 06:39 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

Good one! Trump among his fellows! Putin right behind him, which fits the actual facts!