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(11-09-2016, 02:32 AM)taramarie Wrote: Fucking dionysians. They only know how to self destruct.
You got that right.
Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard. -- H.L. Mencken
If one rejects laissez faire on account of man's fallibility and moral weakness, one must for the same reason also reject every kind of government action. -- Ludwig von Mises
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(11-09-2016, 03:11 AM)taramarie Wrote: Come to NZ. Heck I am not even in your country and am shocked to the core. I now know that America is no longer what it used to stand for anymore (or at least pretended to stand for). Has it ever done that? Welcoming to immigrants, freedom for all whatever the f that meant (looking at your history here) "home of the free." To vote in that immature man who is terrible in business, who has zero experience stuns me. Anti PC movement has won. Eat the hate cake guys and enjoy it. Civil war is on the way.
As long as they're legal they're acceptable. Hint: The interests of foreign nationalists ( whether they be Mexican, Syrian, Irish or Kiwi ) should never be placed above the interests of most hard core Americans. You lose elections that you should win by doing stupid shit like that on a regular basis. My advice. Keep your nose out of American politics. BTW, Civil war was most likely averted with the outcome of this election. As I've told you before, you live on a some small islands out in the ocean. What you see and experience and what we see and experience is greatly different in many ways.
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(11-09-2016, 03:43 AM)Galen Wrote: Actually I expected this election to closer in many ways than it actually turned out. Truth is, an economic crisis was already baked into the cake. The best anyone could do is delay it with the unfortunate consequence of having an even worse crisis later. Given the current state of the US it would be best if the government would quite bombing the middle east and antagonizing Russia. As I have said before, " I am not certain that Trump is the answer but it is clear that Hillary isn't".
Trump pledged to defeat ISIS. I shudder at the thought of him at the helm of this difficult operation.
Quote:Take if from someone who has watched Trump longer than you have been alive. Trump is not self destructive, not even in his younger days. Now that he is seventy with children and grand-children it seems unlikely that will have changed.
I don't think anyone knows. He has been destructive toward others. Noone said he was terribly self-destructive. I think he cares about the country. I don't think he knows how to do it.
Quote: Remember, that I am an Xer with an over-developed sense of self-preservation. I have had to take risks but I don't take stupid ones and tend to win more than I lose.
See Gabrielle? There you are again. Xers are about survival.
Quote:As for the election: so much for astrology. You are absolutely correct about that.
I dunno. It's a blow. It must be said that there were lots of astrologers who predicted Trump would win. I did not think their methods were well-researched. But maybe that doesn't matter.
Quote:We are entering the second half of the fourth turning and its going to be a bumpy ride. I think our odds of survival have increased greatly.
Diminished greatly.
But I wish us and the new president well anyway.
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(11-09-2016, 02:40 AM)Warren Dew Wrote: (11-09-2016, 01:18 AM)Bronsin Wrote: I am mildly surprised at the results so far. I just didn't think there were enough of us out there that were sick and tired of the status quo to change it.
I'm not banking on Trump to change the status quo. In fact I voted for him to preserve the status quo of a liberal democracy for one more secular cycle. Clinton would have appointed Supreme Court justices that would have gutted the first and second amendments, hastening the shift to an autocratic government as warfare shift from firearms to nuclear weapons.
I don't know what to say about folks like you. all you want is your guns and your traditional religious superstition. You guys truly are deplorable.
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(11-09-2016, 03:43 AM)Galen Wrote: (11-09-2016, 02:27 AM)taramarie Wrote: I am sad to say my quiet prediction that I kept to myself came to pass. I predicted civil war. Some here did not believe me. I predicted Trump winning. I predicted a rise in Nationalism and all of the hatred boiling over to this which some Dems have pushed Repubs towards. I predicted another crash worse than the last one. I do not say it though till I know for sure. That is going by gut instinct. Being an ISFJ stinks sometimes. Now you see why I was so scared. I do not go by stars. I go by actions now, in the past and predict the reaction.
Actually I expected this election to closer in many ways than it actually turned out. Truth is, an economic crisis was already baked into the cake. The best anyone could do is delay it with the unfortunate consequence of having an even worse crisis later. Given the current state of the US it would be best if the government would quite bombing the middle east and antagonizing Russia. As I have said before, " I am not certain that Trump is the answer but it is clear that Hillary isn't".
Take if from someone who has watched Trump longer than you have been alive. Trump is not self destructive, not even in his younger days. Now that he is seventy with children and grand-children it seems unlikely that will have changed. Remember, that I am an Xer with an over-developed sense of self-preservation. I have had to take risks but I don't take stupid ones and tend to win more than I lose.
As for the election: so much for astrology. You are absolutely correct about that.
We are entering the second half of the fourth turning and its going to be a bumpy ride. I think our odds of survival have increased greatly.
I don't believe that we've entered the 1st half of the crisis yet.
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(11-09-2016, 04:05 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (11-09-2016, 03:43 AM)Galen Wrote: (11-09-2016, 02:27 AM)taramarie Wrote: I am sad to say my quiet prediction that I kept to myself came to pass. I predicted civil war. Some here did not believe me. I predicted Trump winning. I predicted a rise in Nationalism and all of the hatred boiling over to this which some Dems have pushed Repubs towards. I predicted another crash worse than the last one. I do not say it though till I know for sure. That is going by gut instinct. Being an ISFJ stinks sometimes. Now you see why I was so scared. I do not go by stars. I go by actions now, in the past and predict the reaction.
Actually I expected this election to closer in many ways than it actually turned out. Truth is, an economic crisis was already baked into the cake. The best anyone could do is delay it with the unfortunate consequence of having an even worse crisis later. Given the current state of the US it would be best if the government would quite bombing the middle east and antagonizing Russia. As I have said before, " I am not certain that Trump is the answer but it is clear that Hillary isn't".
Take if from someone who has watched Trump longer than you have been alive. Trump is not self destructive, not even in his younger days. Now that he is seventy with children and grand-children it seems unlikely that will have changed. Remember, that I am an Xer with an over-developed sense of self-preservation. I have had to take risks but I don't take stupid ones and tend to win more than I lose.
As for the election: so much for astrology. You are absolutely correct about that.
We are entering the second half of the fourth turning and its going to be a bumpy ride. I think our odds of survival have increased greatly.
I don't believe that we've entered the 1st half of the crisis yet.
2 years away according to Mr. Howe.
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(11-09-2016, 04:00 AM)taramarie Wrote: (11-09-2016, 03:56 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (11-09-2016, 03:11 AM)taramarie Wrote: Come to NZ. Heck I am not even in your country and am shocked to the core. I now know that America is no longer what it used to stand for anymore (or at least pretended to stand for). Has it ever done that? Welcoming to immigrants, freedom for all whatever the f that meant (looking at your history here) "home of the free." To vote in that immature man who is terrible in business, who has zero experience stuns me. Anti PC movement has won. Eat the hate cake guys and enjoy it. Civil war is on the way.
As long as they're legal they're acceptable. Hint: The interests of foreign nationalists ( whether they be Mexican, Syrian, Irish or Kiwi ) should never be placed above the interests of most hard core Americans. You lose elections that you should win by doing stupid shit like that on a regular basis. My advice. Keep your nose out of American politics. BTW, Civil war was most likely averted with the outcome of this election. As I've told you before, you live on a some small islands out in the ocean. What you see and experience and what we see and experience is greatly different in many ways.
When in a crisis I agree.
Freedom of speech buddy. You Americans are all for "Freedom" ......right? I am free to say what I please when it comes to what I think about this election. As for civil war...I would not bet on that.
You are free to say what you please and I'm free to respond to what you say as I please because that's how freedom still works in America.
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11-09-2016, 04:26 AM
(This post was last modified: 11-09-2016, 04:35 AM by Galen.)
(11-09-2016, 03:56 AM)taramarie Wrote: (11-09-2016, 03:43 AM)Galen Wrote: Actually I expected this election to closer in many ways than it actually turned out. Truth is, an economic crisis was already baked into the cake. The best anyone could do is delay it with the unfortunate consequence of having an even worse crisis later. Given the current state of the US it would be best if the government would quite bombing the middle east and antagonizing Russia. As I have said before, " I am not certain that Trump is the answer but it is clear that Hillary isn't".
Take if from someone who has watched Trump longer than you have been alive. Trump is not self destructive, not even in his younger days. Now that he is seventy with children and grand-children it seems unlikely that will have changed. Remember, that I am an Xer with an over-developed sense of self-preservation. I have had to take risks but I don't take stupid ones and tend to win more than I lose.
As for the election: so much for astrology. You are absolutely correct about that.
We are entering the second half of the fourth turning and its going to be a bumpy ride. I think our odds of survival have increased greatly.
Neither is but he is ringing off alarm bells for me. He is not mature enough, liable to piss some foreign country off, he has no experience in politics at all, he flip flops constantly and is easily swayed by the looks of things. He has the manners of a sailor which is making that sort of behaviour mainstream (thanks anti pc movement). He has a negative reputation with business. Just a few reasons why I am scared of him. If you can ease my mind that would be fantastic. Two things I like about him is that he wants to ease the tensions with China and Russia (however he intends to do that I have no clue) and he is anti TPPA. Something I have been against right from the start.
Trump tends to play to his audience. Other than residents of college campuses, the average American is well and truly tired of the PC crowd and would very much like to see them rot in hell. Think about all of the business deals Trump has had to execute over the last forty plus years to get to four billion in tangible assets. You don't do that by pissing people off in negotiations. Naturally, I expect you to do your own homework. Look into his background and history yourself and then tell me what you think. Don't restrict yourself to the recent campaign.
The liberals are freaking out right now and are less rational than usual. Which is simultaneously impressive and disturbing now that I think about it.
(11-09-2016, 03:56 AM)taramarie Wrote: Astrology is a load of garbage. Anyone who is grounded in reality knows that. Gut instinct and listening to what is going on/reactions and facts is much more trustworthy.
Which definitely does not describe Eric the Obtuse. How you feel about circumstances does not matter. Events always have a logic to them, understand the logic of the circumstances and the people involved and you understand the event. Always remember the five questions, they will help you in understanding the people involved. I have also had people threatening me with the "End of the World" longer than you have been alive and it has invariably been a crude attempt at emotional manipulation in an effort to get me to go against my own interests.
Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard. -- H.L. Mencken
If one rejects laissez faire on account of man's fallibility and moral weakness, one must for the same reason also reject every kind of government action. -- Ludwig von Mises
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(11-09-2016, 03:56 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: Quote: Remember, that I am an Xer with an over-developed sense of self-preservation. I have had to take risks but I don't take stupid ones and tend to win more than I lose.
See Gabrielle? There you are again. Xers are about survival.
Everyone is concerned with surviving, some people have different ideas about how to survive than others. I just happen to believe that looking out solely for no 1 or for one's own tribe all the time means weakening the whole and bringing everyone down. And I'm far from the only Gen Xer who thinks that.
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(11-09-2016, 04:26 AM)taramarie Wrote: (11-09-2016, 04:24 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (11-09-2016, 04:00 AM)taramarie Wrote: (11-09-2016, 03:56 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (11-09-2016, 03:11 AM)taramarie Wrote: Come to NZ. Heck I am not even in your country and am shocked to the core. I now know that America is no longer what it used to stand for anymore (or at least pretended to stand for). Has it ever done that? Welcoming to immigrants, freedom for all whatever the f that meant (looking at your history here) "home of the free." To vote in that immature man who is terrible in business, who has zero experience stuns me. Anti PC movement has won. Eat the hate cake guys and enjoy it. Civil war is on the way.
As long as they're legal they're acceptable. Hint: The interests of foreign nationalists ( whether they be Mexican, Syrian, Irish or Kiwi ) should never be placed above the interests of most hard core Americans. You lose elections that you should win by doing stupid shit like that on a regular basis. My advice. Keep your nose out of American politics. BTW, Civil war was most likely averted with the outcome of this election. As I've told you before, you live on a some small islands out in the ocean. What you see and experience and what we see and experience is greatly different in many ways.
When in a crisis I agree.
Freedom of speech buddy. You Americans are all for "Freedom" ......right? I am free to say what I please when it comes to what I think about this election. As for civil war...I would not bet on that.
You are free to say what you please and I'm free to respond to what you say as I please because that's how freedom still works in America.
Then do not try to silence me. Deal with it boy.
I'm not trying to silence you. I'm trying to avoid (by giving you some advice) entering into conflict with you and your wayward views. BTW, I ain't no boy. I've handled much meaner and much tougher women than you without using direct force.
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(11-09-2016, 04:31 AM)taramarie Wrote: (11-09-2016, 04:26 AM)Galen Wrote: Which definitely does not describe Eric the Obtuse. How you feel about circumstances does not matter. Events always have a logic to them, understand the logic of the circumstances and the people involved and you understand the event. Always remember the five questions, they will help you in understanding the people involved. I have also had people threatening me with the "End of the World" longer than you have been alive and it has invariable be a crude attempt at emotional manipulation in an effort to get me to go against my own interests.
Why? Is being polite a crime now? What is going on over there?
As for end of the world, I do not think so but the drastic change is scary and as this is a 4T it is understandable why people feel this way. It is also a very dangerous time.
Whenever you are investigating something it is best to divorce yourself from your feelings. Remember that you are trying to understand the current situation and so your feelings about it are irrelevant. The more like a dispassionate observer you become the better you will able to understand. Like many Xers, I compartmentalize in a way that you can't imagine and its one of the reasons I am still alive after all of these years. Ask Dannilyn, if you don't believe me, because I am pretty sure she has been doing the same thing for almost as long as I have.
It is only when you understand and need to decide on a course of action does your understanding of ethics and your feelings become relevant.
Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard. -- H.L. Mencken
If one rejects laissez faire on account of man's fallibility and moral weakness, one must for the same reason also reject every kind of government action. -- Ludwig von Mises
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(11-09-2016, 04:57 AM)taramarie Wrote: (11-09-2016, 04:49 AM)Galen Wrote: Whenever you are investigating something it is best to divorce yourself from your feelings. Remember that you are trying to understand the current situation and so your feelings about it are irrelevant. The more like a dispassionate observer you become the better you will able to understand. Like many Xers, I compartmentalize in a way that you can't imagine and its one of the reasons I am still alive after all of these years. Ask Dannilyn, if you don't believe me, because I am pretty sure she has been doing the same thing for almost as long as I have.
It is only when you understand and need to decide on a course of action does your understanding of ethics and your feelings become relevant.
For an ISFJ that is very hard to do. I am very high sensory person but that is good advice. You cannot see with a clear head otherwise. But it does worry me as to why the anti PC backlash began. I worry for America's future and how it will influence the rest of us. Oh btw scratch my earlier post to classic xer. You are a libertarian. Not republican. Sorry it is late here and I am very unwell at the moment.
Political Correctness is just a way to shut people up. Do yourself a favor and read 1984. You will understand.
Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard. -- H.L. Mencken
If one rejects laissez faire on account of man's fallibility and moral weakness, one must for the same reason also reject every kind of government action. -- Ludwig von Mises
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(11-09-2016, 04:51 AM)taramarie Wrote: (11-09-2016, 04:44 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (11-09-2016, 04:26 AM)taramarie Wrote: (11-09-2016, 04:24 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (11-09-2016, 04:00 AM)taramarie Wrote: When in a crisis I agree.
Freedom of speech buddy. You Americans are all for "Freedom" ......right? I am free to say what I please when it comes to what I think about this election. As for civil war...I would not bet on that.
You are free to say what you please and I'm free to respond to what you say as I please because that's how freedom still works in America.
Then do not try to silence me. Deal with it boy.
I'm not trying to silence you. I'm trying to avoid (by giving you some advice) entering into conflict with you and your wayward views. BTW, I ain't no boy. I've handled much meaner and much tougher women than you without using direct force.
Ok lets read your comment "My advice. Keep your nose out of American politics."
That is a recommendation for me to pretty much shut up. Sorry, no can do. That is UNAMERICAN to try to silence someone when you guys are supposed to be pro freedom. We will only enter conflict if you push for it as I am much more open to conversation than some others here as you can see by how I talk to people like Galen who is a respectful and intelligent republican. I listen to him due to this.
Wise up before opening mouth was my recommendation to you. I assume that you aren't as stupid as you are coming across to me as being right now. How many years of American political experience do you have? Do you have more than me? I hope you're not foolish enough to believe that you have more knowledge and experience with American politics and with Americans in general than me.
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(11-09-2016, 05:12 AM)taramarie Wrote: (11-09-2016, 05:03 AM)Galen Wrote: Political Correctness is just a way to shut people up. Do yourself a favor and read 1984. You will understand.
Ah so it is abused over there. I got a taste of it when a lady said I was a racist or racist enabler when i was simply doing what i always do....listen to both sides and measure. She did not even know me and immediately called me that. Not even allowed to listen to both sides and that is why I declare America tribal. This is why I have warned Democrats that doing that shit only hurts them. They caused this. I hope they will listen to me now. Probably not. This is why he was not hurt by talking in a way that was not pc. In fact it helped him. No one listens.
Pretty much.
No, they will not listen to you. They have been given that warning many times before.
Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard. -- H.L. Mencken
If one rejects laissez faire on account of man's fallibility and moral weakness, one must for the same reason also reject every kind of government action. -- Ludwig von Mises
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(11-09-2016, 05:21 AM)taramarie Wrote: (11-09-2016, 05:16 AM)Galen Wrote: (11-09-2016, 05:12 AM)taramarie Wrote: (11-09-2016, 05:03 AM)Galen Wrote: Political Correctness is just a way to shut people up. Do yourself a favor and read 1984. You will understand.
Ah so it is abused over there. I got a taste of it when a lady said I was a racist or racist enabler when i was simply doing what i always do....listen to both sides and measure. She did not even know me and immediately called me that. Not even allowed to listen to both sides and that is why I declare America tribal. This is why I have warned Democrats that doing that shit only hurts them. They caused this. I hope they will listen to me now. Probably not. This is why he was not hurt by talking in a way that was not pc. In fact it helped him. No one listens.
Pretty much.
No, they will not listen to you. They have been given that warning many times before.
Yeah I suspected as such. Least I can rely on xers to be upfront with me on the facts.
Pretty much all we can do.
Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard. -- H.L. Mencken
If one rejects laissez faire on account of man's fallibility and moral weakness, one must for the same reason also reject every kind of government action. -- Ludwig von Mises
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(11-09-2016, 04:49 AM)Galen Wrote: (11-09-2016, 04:31 AM)taramarie Wrote: (11-09-2016, 04:26 AM)Galen Wrote: Which definitely does not describe Eric (insult redacted). How you feel about circumstances does not matter. Events always have a logic to them, understand the logic of the circumstances and the people involved and you understand the event. Always remember the five questions, they will help you in understanding the people involved. I have also had people threatening me with the "End of the World" longer than you have been alive and it has invariable be a crude attempt at emotional manipulation in an effort to get me to go against my own interests.
Why? Is being polite a crime now? What is going on over there?
As for end of the world, I do not think so but the drastic change is scary and as this is a 4T it is understandable why people feel this way. It is also a very dangerous time.
Whenever you are investigating something it is best to divorce yourself from your feelings. Remember that you are trying to understand the current situation and so your feelings about it are irrelevant. The more like a dispassionate observer you become the better you will able to understand. Like many Xers, I compartmentalize in a way that you can't imagine and its one of the reasons I am still alive after all of these years. Ask Dannilyn, if you don't believe me, because I am pretty sure she has been doing the same thing for almost as long as I have.
It is only when you understand and need to decide on a course of action does your understanding of ethics and your feelings become relevant.
When it comes to a moral issue one had better not divorce oneself from one's feelings.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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I guess this is the kind of dialogue we can expect more of in Trump's America. Disgraceful.
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(11-09-2016, 05:29 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: I guess this is the kind of dialogue we can expect more of in Trump's America. Disgraceful.
In the words of the immortal Patrick Henry, "If this be treason, then let us make the most of it!"
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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(11-09-2016, 05:42 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: (11-09-2016, 05:29 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: I guess this is the kind of dialogue we can expect more of in Trump's America. Disgraceful.
In the words of the immortal Patrick Henry, "If this be treason, then let us make the most of it!"
That may be a good idea.
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(11-09-2016, 05:49 AM)taramarie Wrote: However, that said I just saw this post and want to get people's thoughts on this.
"Please tell me how we teach children not to mock people with disabilities when the president does it.
Please tell me how we teach men to respect women when the president doesn't do it.
Please tell me how we teach white people that racism is bad when the president does it.
Please tell me how we teach teenagers that lying is bad when the president does it.
Please tell me how we teach kids that bullying is wrong when the president does it.
Please tell me how I explain this to my future children."
Maybe we must pull out the religious text with which we feel most comfortable and use examples of honorable behavior as models of what a corrupt and vile leader does that we must not do.
It's the old "do unto others what you would have them do to you". It's also "do no harm".
Donald Trump is just another bad man achieving a high office in a country, a man who will likely assume or accrete dictatorial powers and use them in ways contrary to the teachings of Moses, Jesus, Mohammad, Zoroaster, the Bab, Confucius, the Buddha, or Joseph Smith.
He is not the first. He is simply the first American President with undeniable sociopathy.
I expect him to steal. A private-sector kleptocrat who gets in charge of the biggest enterprise of all, he will find ways to give away assets in return for some personal bonus.
...As things deteriorate during a Trump Presidency -- civil unrest, an economic meltdown, diplomatic calamities, and wars that go badly, we shall see an unambiguous lesson on why bad behavior by a leader can get horrible results.
We must resist the evil that we see if we are to consider ourselves good.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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