Let's make fun of Trump, bash him, etc. while we can!

[Eric the Green]

They don't "indicate otherwise" They indicate nothing.

It would make no difference if no charges were made against her; none at all! Slurs and slanders are used by Hillary opponents to weaken her. But the real issue is that folks like you want vicarious satisfaction from a "strong leader" who will move our country backwards as fast as possible to the good old days which were the bad old days.

[Eric the Green]

Donald Trump: I meant that Obama founded ISIS, literally

By Tal Kopan, CNN
Updated 1:35 PM ET, Thu August 11, 2016
http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/11/politics/d...nder-isis/

Trump and conservative show host Hugh Hewitt went back and forth over Trump's statement

In 2007, Trump supported a rapid exit from Iraq

Washington (CNN)Donald Trump said Thursday that he meant exactly what he said when he called President Barack Obama the "founder of ISIS" and objected when a conservative radio show host tried to clarify the GOP nominee's position.

Trump was asked by host Hugh Hewitt about the comments Trump made Wednesday night in Florida, and Hewitt said he understood Trump to mean "that he (Obama) created the vacuum, he lost the peace."
Trump objected. "No, I meant he's the founder of ISIS," Trump said. "I do. He was the most valuable player. I give him the most valuable player award. I give her, too, by the way, Hillary Clinton."

Hewitt pushed back again, saying that Obama is "not sympathetic" to ISIS and "hates" and is "trying to kill them."
"I don't care," Trump said, according to a show transcript. "He was the founder. His, the way he got out of Iraq was that that was the founding of ISIS, okay?"

Hewitt and Trump went back and forth after that, with Hewitt warning Trump that his critics would seize on his use of "founder" as more example of Trump being loose with words.

Clinton later hit back on Thursday on Twitter, saying it was Trump who was unfit to be president.
"It can be difficult to muster outrage as frequently as Donald Trump should cause it, but his smear against President Obama requires it," Clinton tweeted. "No, Barack Obama is not the founder of ISIS. ... Anyone willing to sink so low, so often should never be allowed to serve as our Commander-in-Chief."

Trump has been under near-constant scrutiny for his discussion of sensitive world events, with his opponents using favorable comments he's made toward Vladimir Putin and other dictators as evidence of misplaced priorities.
Sen. Susan Collins of Maine, one of the most senior Republicans to oppose Trump, said her decision came down to Trump making the world a "more dangerous" place, in her estimation.

While Trump remains around 40% in national polling, Obama's approval rating was at 54% after the Democratic convention, according to CNN polling.

But the GOP nominee remained steadfast, saying it was "no mistake" what he said, standing by his labeling of the Democratic opponent as a "co-founder."

"Do you not like that?" Trump asked Hewitt.
"I think I would say they created, they lost the peace. They created the Libyan vacuum, they created the vacuum into which ISIS came, but they didn't create ISIS. That's what I would say," Hewitt said.
"Well, I disagree," Trump replied, and Hewitt moved on.

In 2007, however, Trump actually supported a rapid withdrawal from Iraq, despite hitting Obama for his drawdown years later. "You know how they get out? They get out," Trump told CNN's Wolf Blitzer in 2007. "That's how they get out. Declare victory and leave, because I'll tell you, this country is just going to get further bogged down. They're in a civil war over there, Wolf. There's nothing that we're going to be able to do with a civil war. They are in a major civil war."

The comments from 2007 were resurfaced Thursday by Buzzfeed.

On Wednesday night, former ambassador to Russia Michael McFaul hit Trump on the comments, saying they mimicked Russian talking points designed to sow anger toward the US and the West. "BTW, Trumps line that Obama founded ISIS echoes exactly a myth propagated by Russian state-controlled media and bloggers," McFaul tweeted.

Follow
Michael McFaul ✔ @McFaul
BTW, Trumps line that Obama founded ISIS echoes exactly a myth propagated by Russian state-controlled media and bloggers.
8:42 PM - 10 Aug 2016
2,335 2,335 Retweets 2,445 2,445 likes

Clinton's campaign also ripped Trump's comments as damaging to the country, in a statement from policy adviser Jake Sullivan.

"This is another example of Donald Trump trash-talking the United States," Sullivan said. "It goes without saying that this is a false claim from a presidential candidate with an aversion to the truth and an unprecedented lack of knowledge. What's remarkable about Trump's comments is that once again, he's echoing the talking points of Putin and our adversaries to attack American leaders and American interests, while failing to offer any serious plans to confront terrorism or make this country more secure."

[The Wonkette]

Quote:The only time a presidential election was certainly rigged, in the last 140 years, was in 2000 when the Supreme Court ratified the blatant rigging of Katherine Harris and the Republicans in order to put a "shocking and awesome" genocidal murderer in the White House, and possibly in Ohio by Mr. Black in 2004 too to keep him there. THEY are the ones who rig elections. Nowadays conspiracy theory fans use that fact as the background event for the believability of their theories that elections are rigged by Hillary's Democrats.

The only name for the tactic of claiming that if you lose, the system is rigged, is "intimidation." That is certainly a tactic that bullies like Trump use all the time, and voters who prefer bullies (like you and Cynic Hero) are quite pleased with use of the tactic.

Just to nit, one could certainly argue that the election of 1876 was rigged.  That election was exactly 140 years ago.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Sta...tion,_1876

[Classic-Xer]

(08-10-2016, 11:31 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(08-10-2016, 04:49 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-10-2016, 04:23 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote:

(08-10-2016, 02:46 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: When you think it can't get lower, then here it comes: a call to murderous violence against political opponents.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trum...ction=&

I hate making this comparison, but the late Ugandan tyrant Idi Amurderin' -- I mean Idi Amin -- frequently joked about killing people. He also killed people with serious intent, and in horrible numbers.

Donald Trump makes me wish that I were a German instead of a German-American.

Once in a while you may hear a talk host or passerby make a statement to the effect of "one of the reasons for the 2nd Amendment is to prevent tyranny" which I actually agree with and have no issue with. But in the context it was said, I sure didn't take Trump's statement that way, I took it as a veiled threat. Plus, even beyond that, even though talk hosts and passerby may make statements like the one in my first sentence, that is just not something a PotUS candidate says. I know, how quaint and old fashioned, this concept of decorum. We don't need no stinkin' decorum. We like a real man who tells it like it is ... blah, blah.

You don't need much decorum when you're dealing with progressive shitheads or competing against low down Democrats. Screw decorum, I would have been eaten alive (socially overwhelmed) had I stuck to decorum. We like a real man who knows the game of his adversary and plays the game to win. Mitt Romney should've cut through the liberal child play, set him on edge and drilled Obama. But no, no ,no...we have to be nice to the first cherry picked Black president. Washington DC, Washington politics and the media associated are becoming an ugly joke. There's you're problem dude and your bade Hillary doesn't have the balls or the interest in fixing it.

Do politics your way -- the Trump way -- and America would degenerate quickly into a political hell-hole in which everyone who runs afoul of the Great and Infallible Leader risks being assassinated. Maybe it's a jab from an umbrella that deposits a pellet of ricin stuck just beneath your skin, for which there is no antidote by some tourist while you are in London (that's how Georgi Markov, a dissident Bulgarian writer, met his end at the behest of the Commie secret police of the time). Ricin is even deadlier than cyanide. Or as you and your recent captor share a toast to your soon-to-arrive freedom you get a dose of thallium (a favorite trick of Saddam Hussein's Mukhabarat) which ensures that you don't get to enjoy freedom for long in Perth or Prague.

Barack Obama won the Presidency despite being black and won re-election decisively, which says much about him. In view of all the derision about him mostly for what he is or what he is alleged to be, I can't see how the Right treated him 'nicely':



This comes from the fascistic Posse Comitatus site, which has some vile commentary:

African lion or Lyin African. One is in the zoo and the other is the Communist Marxist Obama in the White House. How the public tide of opinion has turned on the Liberal Communist Party and their commie henchmen (including the Jewess Nancy Pelosi) in the White House. And the masses continue to awaken to these political whores in all aspects. The picture below is worth
10,000 words of truth.

Dr. James P. Wickstrom, D. Litt.

President Obama seems to get caught in few lies for a high-profile politician. Enough said. (FYI -- Nancy Pelosi isn't Jewish, as if being Jewish would make one questionable as a person).

Doctor of Letters -- where did "Doctor" Wickstrom get that -- some diploma mill? I could write better than that when I was in junior high school.

Trump isn't afraid to do politics your way. I wasn't afraid to do politics your way either.

[Classic-Xer]

(08-11-2016, 03:49 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote:

(08-11-2016, 12:54 PM)Cynic Hero Wrote: If hillary is a good leader, Eric,  Xymox. How come wikileaks has produced copious amounts of documents indicating otherwise. Documents don't lie.

I'm not claiming she some sort of saint. I've written as much on several other threads. However, of the two candidates, she's the only one with the technical skills and expertise to do the job. I'll take the apple with bruises and a worm versus the rotten one given a choice between the two.

She got caught for using a private server located in her home. She got caught lying to us about it. You can have her and all the political garbage that will be coming with her. I'll take a chance on the political unknown.

[Classic-Xer]

(08-10-2016, 06:46 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(08-10-2016, 06:01 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-10-2016, 05:14 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Why don't YOU run, classic? Trump has prepared the way for you. Seth Myers, John Oliver and Bill Maher will have as much fun with you as they have with the orange-haired menace.

I would love the opportunity to have a serious go at Bill Maher. Bill Maher wouldn't know what to do with me. I would turn that liberal minded twit inside out. First of all, I would remind him that he's a comedian and he's not an expert on anything very important or anything that really matters to fully mature adults.

I think voting matters, and the issues he deals with.

Quote: Second, I would verbally push him a bit on his Atheist views and give him a small glimpse as to what someone is like who is actually connected to a higher power.

How would you demonstrate that? Say a prayer and then give him a powerful karate Chop Chop?

Quote: Third, I would remind him that he's a life long bachelor who's never been responsible for the advancement or care of another human life his entire adult male life. No, I'd have him on the defensive from the start. I would make fun of his insecurity as it relates to religious people. I would poke at and make fun of his bigoted views. I would bring up his use of insults and verbally smash him for being a bigot. I would also suggest that making millions must lend to the complete disregard and disdain that he displays for regular folks. I would completely tear him apart and he would never be as popular as he was before meeting me. I could hold my own and do damage to the image of any one of them.

I doubt it. They'd make as much mince meat of you as they do of Trump, since you have the same illusions and prejudices. You call him a bigot, and he'd smack you on the head with your own black kettle.

I have to give plaudits to Seth Myers over the other two, because he's on broadcast media and can't depend on or resort to obscene words to get some of his laughs.

It's easy to make mince meat of people who aren't there to directly counter them and defend themselves. The task of making mince meat of someone or some group becomes much harder face to face in a real life setting with a real life crowd. I would destroy the credibility of Bill Maher on his own stage in front of his own crowd by exploiting his obvious lack of character, lack of knowledge and emotional weakness's. Bill Maher is to much of an idiot to understand that most people who support Republicans do it because idiots like him are now viewed as being the ones who are in control of the Democrats. If you can't see that money speaks louder on your side than it does on the right then you're blind.

[Eric the Green]

(08-11-2016, 10:53 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: It's easy to make mince meat of people who aren't there to directly counter them and defend themselves. The task of making mince meat of someone or some group becomes much harder face to face in a real life setting with a real life crowd. I would destroy the credibility of Bill Maher on his own stage in front of his own crowd by exploiting his obvious lack of character, lack of knowledge and emotional weakness's. Bill Maher is to much of an idiot to understand that most people who support Republicans do it because idiots like him are now viewed as being the ones who are in control of the Democrats. If you can't see that money speaks louder on your side than it does on the right then you're blind.

X_4AD_84, it's more than anger, in the case of Classic Xer and all who support the right-wing today. And Classic Xer even denies that he's a Republican, and denies that he's a racist too. His last sentence here shows how blind people can't see their own blindness, and attribute their own blindness to the other guys.

[Eric the Green]

(08-11-2016, 09:38 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-11-2016, 03:49 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote:

(08-11-2016, 12:54 PM)Cynic Hero Wrote: If hillary is a good leader, Eric,  Xymox. How come wikileaks has produced copious amounts of documents indicating otherwise. Documents don't lie.

I'm not claiming she some sort of saint. I've written as much on several other threads. However, of the two candidates, she's the only one with the technical skills and expertise to do the job. I'll take the apple with bruises and a worm versus the rotten one given a choice between the two.

She got caught for using a private server located in her home. She got caught lying to us about it. You can have her and all the political garbage that will be coming with her. I'll take a chance on the political unknown.

It's not unknown at all. Everyone now knows that Trump mistreats and rips off his contractors and employees, that he lies constantly, that he is emotionally unstable, that he insults people and takes offense at insults, that he changes his views even in mid-sentence, that he refuses to ever apologize, that he has little knowledge and little inclination to learn things, that his fiscal plans would wreck the budget and the economy, and so on.

Accusations against Hillary are all nonsense and smears. Using private servers was common practice; it was not something she got "caught" doing. She hasn't lied about it; apparently the only thing that happened was that she and her 300 colleagues and employees who were emailing with her didn't see a few emails that were marked inconspicuously as classified. There is no comparison with The Donald. He makes Hillary look like Abraham Lincoln on truth serum.

But blindness rules on the other side. Republicans are like the old southern yellow dog Democrats. They said they'd vote for a yellow dog, as long as it's a Democrat. Now we've got the same thing on the Republican side. They are going to vote for an orange-haired orangutan just because it's a Republican. As long as the candidate wants to lower taxes, stop catering to ethnic groups other than their own Caucasian white group, and protect the second amendment (actually, protect THEIR interpretation of it), and oppose a few things like abortion or gay marriage (their valyas), they will vote for him or her. Qualifications don't matter at all to them. The country doesn't matter at all. Just their ideology.

[Eric the Green]

(08-11-2016, 07:36 PM)The Wonkette Wrote:

Quote:The only time a presidential election was certainly rigged, in the last 140 years, was in 2000 when the Supreme Court ratified the blatant rigging of Katherine Harris and the Republicans in order to put a "shocking and awesome" genocidal murderer in the White House, and possibly in Ohio by Mr. Black in 2004 too to keep him there. THEY are the ones who rig elections. Nowadays conspiracy theory fans use that fact as the background event for the believability of their theories that elections are rigged by Hillary's Democrats.

The only name for the tactic of claiming that if you lose, the system is rigged, is "intimidation." That is certainly a tactic that bullies like Trump use all the time, and voters who prefer bullies (like you and Cynic Hero) are quite pleased with use of the tactic.

Just to nit, one could certainly argue that the election of 1876 was rigged.  That election was exactly 140 years ago.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Sta...tion,_1876

That's what I meant; since then.

[pbrower2a]

(08-11-2016, 10:53 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-10-2016, 06:46 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(08-10-2016, 06:01 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-10-2016, 05:14 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Why don't YOU run, classic? Trump has prepared the way for you. Seth Myers, John Oliver and Bill Maher will have as much fun with you as they have with the orange-haired menace.

I would love the opportunity to have a serious go at Bill Maher. Bill Maher wouldn't know what to do with me. I would turn that liberal minded twit inside out. First of all, I would remind him that he's a comedian and he's not an expert on anything very important or anything that really matters to fully mature adults.

I think voting matters, and the issues he deals with.

Quote: Second, I would verbally push him a bit on his Atheist views and give him a small glimpse as to what someone is like who is actually connected to a higher power.

How would you demonstrate that? Say a prayer and then give him a powerful karate Chop Chop?

Quote: Third, I would remind him that he's a life long bachelor who's never been responsible for the advancement or care of another human life his entire adult male life. No, I'd have him on the defensive from the start. I would make fun of his insecurity as it relates to religious people. I would poke at and make fun of his bigoted views. I would bring up his use of insults and verbally smash him for being a bigot. I would also suggest that making millions must lend to the complete disregard and disdain that he displays for regular folks. I would completely tear him apart and he would never be as popular as he was before meeting me. I could hold my own and do damage to the image of any one of them.

I doubt it. They'd make as much mince meat of you as they do of Trump, since you have the same illusions and prejudices. You call him a bigot, and he'd smack you on the head with your own black kettle.

I have to give plaudits to Seth Myers over the other two, because he's on broadcast media and can't depend on or resort to obscene words to get some of his laughs.

It's easy to make mince meat of people who aren't there to directly counter them and defend themselves. The task of making mince meat of someone or some group becomes much harder face to face in a real life setting with a real life crowd. I would destroy the credibility of Bill Maher on his own stage in front of his own crowd by exploiting his obvious lack of character, lack of knowledge and emotional weakness's. Bill Maher is to much of an idiot to understand that most people who support Republicans do it because idiots like him are now viewed as being the ones who are in control of the Democrats. If you can't see that money speaks louder on your side than it does on the right then you're blind.

We often have some distance between ourselves and some bad guys. It's just as well.

Demographic evidence suggests that well-educated people -- even well-educated white people who used to voting reliably Republican as a group -- are turning against him as he begins to scare people with his bigotry and calls just underneath the surface for violence and revenge.

Donald Trump may not be a directly evil person in the sense that one considers Ted Bundy, Al Capone, Ken Lay, or Saddam Hussein evil, but he has unleashed a destructive whirlwind. In that he falls short of a responsibility that one expects of competent adults that we expect in leaders.

The intelligent people (if one uses education as a proxy for intelligence, as nobody polls politics against IQ, the usual measure of intelligence) -- even white educated people who used to vote reliably Republican -- show signs of rejecting Donald Trump. White educated people are now voting their cultural values, and educated white people have more in common with educated Asians, Hispanics, and blacks in culture than they have with under-educated white people.

Intelligent people do not like violence. Republicans used to refrain from calling for violence against political opponents. Donald Trump has broken that barrier, and he stands to lose in a landslide in part for that. Political violence is uttersly un-American, which may explain why the KKK has a hard time in America.

[Eric the Green]

A fake persona!

[Bob Butler 54]

(08-12-2016, 12:02 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Intelligent people do not like violence. Republicans used to refrain from calling for violence against political opponents. Donald Trump has broken that barrier, and he stands to lose in a landslide in part for that. Political violence is uttersly un-American, which may explain why the KKK has a hard time in America.

Hmm...  The current mood of much the country is opposed to Political violence.  After the Oklahoma City bombing and after September 11th, the Republicans and Democrats came together to sell the notion that violence cannot be allowed to change the Establishment.  Or...  The Establishment tried to sell that violence should not be used against the Establishment.  The People bought it.

But that's against our establishment.  Violence against Bin Ladin and Saddam Hussain is and remains completely OK.

This was not always the case.  When the country was much younger, when the Right to Keep and Bear Arms was new, glorious and exciting thing, Americans were more inclined to use force to spread their political system and culture.  The Revolution, Civil War, Indian Wars, Mexican War, Spanish American War, etc, etc, etc, reflect the early feeling of Manifest Destiny.  Ask Cynic Hero about that time.  He'll tell you all about it with enthusiasm.  War was often cost effective in those days, at least for the winner.

For the most part you're right, we only glorify violence in our entertainment, but Trump seems to be playing to rural folk who are really angry.  He is playing with fire, but I am inclined to believe he will turn off more people with that sort of talk than he will draw to him.

[Classic-Xer]

(08-12-2016, 12:02 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(08-11-2016, 10:53 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-10-2016, 06:46 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(08-10-2016, 06:01 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-10-2016, 05:14 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Why don't YOU run, classic? Trump has prepared the way for you. Seth Myers, John Oliver and Bill Maher will have as much fun with you as they have with the orange-haired menace.

I would love the opportunity to have a serious go at Bill Maher. Bill Maher wouldn't know what to do with me. I would turn that liberal minded twit inside out. First of all, I would remind him that he's a comedian and he's not an expert on anything very important or anything that really matters to fully mature adults.

I think voting matters, and the issues he deals with.

Quote: Second, I would verbally push him a bit on his Atheist views and give him a small glimpse as to what someone is like who is actually connected to a higher power.

How would you demonstrate that? Say a prayer and then give him a powerful karate Chop Chop?

Quote: Third, I would remind him that he's a life long bachelor who's never been responsible for the advancement or care of another human life his entire adult male life. No, I'd have him on the defensive from the start. I would make fun of his insecurity as it relates to religious people. I would poke at and make fun of his bigoted views. I would bring up his use of insults and verbally smash him for being a bigot. I would also suggest that making millions must lend to the complete disregard and disdain that he displays for regular folks. I would completely tear him apart and he would never be as popular as he was before meeting me. I could hold my own and do damage to the image of any one of them.

I doubt it. They'd make as much mince meat of you as they do of Trump, since you have the same illusions and prejudices. You call him a bigot, and he'd smack you on the head with your own black kettle.

I have to give plaudits to Seth Myers over the other two, because he's on broadcast media and can't depend on or resort to obscene words to get some of his laughs.

It's easy to make mince meat of people who aren't there to directly counter them and defend themselves. The task of making mince meat of someone or some group becomes much harder face to face in a real life setting with a real life crowd. I would destroy the credibility of Bill Maher on his own stage in front of his own crowd by exploiting his obvious lack of character, lack of knowledge and emotional weakness's. Bill Maher is to much of an idiot to understand that most people who support Republicans do it because idiots like him are now viewed as being the ones who are in control of the Democrats. If you can't see that money speaks louder on your side than it does on the right then you're blind.

We often have some distance between ourselves and some bad guys. It's just as well.

Demographic evidence suggests that well-educated people -- even well-educated white people who used to voting reliably Republican as a group -- are turning against him as he begins to scare people with his bigotry and calls just underneath the surface for violence and revenge.

Donald Trump may not be a directly evil person in the sense that one considers  Ted Bundy, Al Capone, Ken Lay, or Saddam Hussein evil, but he has unleashed a destructive whirlwind. In that he falls short of a responsibility that one expects of competent adults that we expect in leaders.

The intelligent people (if one uses education as a proxy for intelligence, as nobody polls politics against IQ, the usual measure of intelligence) -- even white educated people who used to vote reliably Republican -- show signs of rejecting Donald Trump. White educated people are now voting their cultural values, and educated white people have more in common with educated Asians, Hispanics, and blacks in culture than they have with under-educated white people.

Intelligent people do not like violence. Republicans used to refrain from calling for violence against political opponents. Donald Trump has broken that barrier, and he stands to lose in a landslide in part for that. Political violence is uttersly un-American, which may explain why the KKK has a hard time in America.

Intelligent people do not welcome violence. However, intelligent people are able to accept and deal with violence once violence becomes a regular thing associated with American politics. BTW, I don't use education as a proxy for intelligence. I'm not that foolish. BTW, I'm not foolish enough to tie my boat to a ship full of clueless idiots with college degrees with a cargo hold that's filled to max with social charity cases.

[Classic-Xer]

(08-12-2016, 08:51 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(08-12-2016, 12:02 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Intelligent people do not like violence. Republicans used to refrain from calling for violence against political opponents. Donald Trump has broken that barrier, and he stands to lose in a landslide in part for that. Political violence is uttersly un-American, which may explain why the KKK has a hard time in America.

Hmm...  The current mood of much the country is opposed to Political violence.  After the Oklahoma City bombing and after September 11th, the Republicans and Democrats came together to sell the notion that violence cannot be allowed to change the Establishment.  Or...  The Establishment tried to sell that violence should not be used against the Establishment.  The People bought it.

But that's against our establishment.  Violence against Bin Ladin and Saddam Hussain is and remains completely OK.

This was not always the case.  When the country was much younger, when the Right to Keep and Bear Arms was new, glorious and exciting thing, Americans were more inclined to use force to spread their political system and culture.  The Revolution, Civil War, Indian Wars, Mexican War, Spanish American War, etc, etc, etc, reflect the early feeling of Manifest Destiny.  Ask Cynic Hero about that time.  He'll tell you all about it with enthusiasm.  War was often cost effective in those days, at least for the winner.

For the most part you're right, we only glorify violence in our entertainment, but Trump seems to be playing to rural folk who are really angry.  He is playing with fire, but I am inclined to believe he will turn off more people with that sort of talk than he will draw to him.

Trump is playing to working class folks who are really angry with the Democrats and the policies that they obviously support. What does your party become once it has lost its place with the vast majority of American workers? I see the obvious signs of a banana republic. Good luck with that as we enter the crisis era.

[Eric the Green]

The working class is often deceived into supporting policies and candidates that are not in their interest. Democratic party policies benefit workers; Republican party policies hurt them. The workers need to beware of the greed and power of their bosses, whom the Republicans answer to; not immigrants or gun control advocates or atheists. Workers need to beware of cuts to social and safety net programs, which protect them; not higher taxes, which they won't have to pay if Democrats win.

[Eric the Green]

(08-13-2016, 02:17 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Intelligent people do not welcome violence. However, intelligent people are able to accept and deal with violence once violence becomes a regular thing associated with American politics. BTW, I don't use education as a proxy for intelligence. I'm not that foolish. BTW, I'm not foolish enough to tie my boat to a ship full of clueless idiots with college degrees with a cargo hold that's filled to max with social charity cases.

Charity begins at home. Social programs protect everyone, and regular folks need the protections liberal government provides against the bosses who exploit and fire them or not hire them in the first place. And from Donald Trump and his ilk, who want to fire them. Who made "you're fired" a famous phrase? It's no accident. That's what The Donald and his kind do to us.

[Bob Butler 54]

(08-13-2016, 02:32 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Trump is playing to working class folks who are really angry with the Democrats and the policies that they obviously support. What does your party become once it has lost its place with the vast majority of American workers? I see the obvious signs of a banana republic. Good luck with that as we enter the crisis era.

You are still betting on linear history, buying into the Reagan memes.  Because smaller taxes and supply side trickle down voodoo were plausible in Reagan's time doesn't mean they are working well today.  Bush 41 lost to "it's the economy stupid" as trickle down voodoo was tired and not working even then.  Bush 43 triggered the greatest collapse since the Great Depression by pushing trickle down voodoo well beyond its place in the cycles.

But you are not alone.  A whole bunch of people are still betting on unravelling trickle down voodoo, refusing to buy into crisis "work together for the common good".  Not only are a lot of people rejecting Democratic working together for the common good, they are rejecting the Republican Establishment to go with Trump.  The GOP main liners seemingly did not follow the Reagan memes with enough fervor and partisanship for the die hard unravellers.  They demand that the old ways be driven far beyond reason.

I'm not going to convince you, obviously.  I've made this point a bunch of times to no effect.  You've bought into the unravelling way of thinking and seem determined to unravel America into an abyss.  It takes a rather large and obvious disaster to make people reevaluate their values.  The end of Bush 43's time in office with its twin military and economic catastrophes seems not to have been sufficient disasters.  

They were quite a large enough disasters for me, thank you.

I do have faith, however, that the The Donald, given the chance, could create a large enough disaster to make even Republicans think.

But I don't think that likely.  The Donald is doing a wonderful job thus far of losing the election.  Normally I don't like Hitler comparisons, but, sure, why not one more?  Hitler helped lose the war for Germany by over riding his professional military people and trying to make military decisions himself.  The Donald is similarly ignoring the political professionals who perhaps ought to be on his side.  Narcissism and egotism will do that to you.

After that, it's a question of whether Hillary can make working together for the common good work, or can the Republican obstructionists somehow make sure it doesn't work without taking the blame themselves.

In the end, it does matter which ideology is correct for the times.  If one is stuck on one ideology, one is occasionally going to be on the wrong side of history for a decade or three.  That's the way I read it, anyway.  The Bush dynasty crashed the country twice.  This was enough that they weren't given a third chance.  In four or eight years they'll be even more out of season.

Not that you'll be able to see it.  You seem to be stuck back in the 80s.

[pbrower2a]

(08-13-2016, 02:17 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Intelligent people do not welcome violence. However, intelligent people are able to accept and deal with violence once violence becomes a regular thing associated with American politics. BTW, I don't use education as a proxy for intelligence. I'm not that foolish. BTW, I'm not foolish enough to tie my boat to a ship full of clueless idiots with college degrees with a cargo hold that's filled to max with social charity cases.

Violence rarely serves the purposes of intelligent people. It can serve small-scale objectives but often at great personal risk for little gain or indulgence. I want nothing to do with a bar brawl.

On a large scale one can use education as a proxy for intelligence. Individuals can be brilliant yet too ill-disciplined to study, they can be poor cultural fits for college, they can become drunks or druggies, and of course they can have money problems that compel them to drop out. College is stressful. Also, some people may find that college gets in the way of their plans. Want to be an entrepreneur? College will only slow one down. It is telling that college graduates on the whole are job-takers and not job-creators as a group.

But on the whole, formal education is a good proxy for intelligence. However one might hold Murray and Herrnstein's The Bell Curve in contempt one must recognize that the cognitive elite that they introduce as a concept has some backing. Stupidity may have some compensation in the reality of most work, mass culture, advertising content, and even political discourse being made for dullards, but for finding real happiness in life, intelligence helps.

However classist America is, it still has some gatekeepers who can identify talented people from disadvantaged backgrounds and mentor them to success. K-12 education has some functions as a social welfare agency, and IQ testing can detect people with above-average raw talent (for which IQ is related). Thus the rare bright kid in the Detroit Independent School District (yes, a horrible school district) can be pushed along in a very different direction from that of fellow students who have all the disadvantages. Aid might be so drastic as to find a way to get the kid to a rural district, a high-performing religious school, or a private academy.

Clueless idiots? Most of those, not surprisingly, are undereducated people. I want nothing to do with people stupid enough to think (if that is the operative world) who think that they could go on a crime spree emulating Clyde Barrow and Bonnie Parker. Of course there are educated fools, often political extremists who think Lenin or Hitler sources of mental sunshine... or people high in intelligence but low in morals I think of Enron Corporation).

I want to be around problem solvers. People effective at problem solving are generally intelligent.

[Bob Butler 54]

(08-14-2016, 10:35 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: I want to be around problem solvers. People effective at problem solving are generally intelligent.

You clearly don't get it.  In the Readings according to Saint Reagan, it is revealed that the government cannot solve problems.  Attempting to solve problems merely increases corruption and taxation.  People who attempt to solve problems are the problem.  

Go solve yourself.  

[Classic-Xer]

(08-13-2016, 11:32 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(08-13-2016, 02:17 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Intelligent people do not welcome violence. However, intelligent people are able to accept and deal with violence once violence becomes a regular thing associated with American politics. BTW, I don't use education as a proxy for intelligence. I'm not that foolish. BTW, I'm not foolish enough to tie my boat to a ship full of clueless idiots with college degrees with a cargo hold that's filled to max with social charity cases.

Charity begins at home. Social programs protect everyone, and regular folks need the protections liberal government provides against the bosses who exploit and fire them or not hire them in the first place. And from Donald Trump and his ilk, who want to fire them. Who made "you're fired" a famous phrase? It's no accident. That's what The Donald and his kind do to us.

If I was a Democrat, I would have fired someone like you a long time ago. I would've fired Hilary for breaking the trust that is needed to effectively govern and function as one body. If I was the owner of the 4T, I would have subjected you to the same rules and standards as everyone else. I would not have allowed a group of knee jerk liberals to take it over and destroy the integrity of the forum. I've fired a lot of people for various reasons. I've fired lazy people preferred to screw around more than work. I've fired trouble makers. I've fired people for doing stupid things like repeating the same mistakes. I've fired people for breaking common sense rules like no stealing or no use company assets/property for the benefit of oneself. I've fired whites, blacks and Hispanics. I've fired family members and friends. I've fired business partners. I've fired men and women. I judge people the same regardless of their race or gender. Does Trump really want to be President? Does Trump really want to deal with all the petty liberal/conservative bullshit that has been plaguing America? Don't know but we are going to find out soon enough.