the best songs ever

[Eric the Green]

(06-09-2016, 07:41 PM)gabrielle Wrote: Here is a song from that window of time you consider a void of creativity in popular music.  It has as catchy a tune as any Millennial pop song; its mood just as simple and upbeat (though if you listen closely to the lyrics they seem better suited to the Nomad's more ambivalent childhood/youth experience).

The 3T was not a void; I just say it was not as good. It has even more lousy pop than usual (all eras have lousy pop), and the best of it was not as good; as I heard it. Your post is interesting, though. That's a nice try. It's not bad, and has a good rhythm; but the problem for me is that the mood and melody of the song lacks something hard to describe. It wanders, and does not strike fire in my heart. I think that's an attitude of those times. Like other New Wave-era pop it avoids the grand and the dynamic in favor of something else hard to describe. I don't know exactly what a more positive term for it would be. Ambivalent, maybe. Reflecting a bored rejection of the scene they grew up in; preferring an "OK, whatever" attitude to the boomer passions.

Quote:This is also what I would consider "kid's music."  It was our kid's music; my particular cohort (I was probably 11 or 12 when this song was released) was the audience for this type of pop--New Wave synthpop.  It was mainly teens and tweens buying this music in the early to mid 80s, often in cassette form to listen to in their Walkmans.  But to my knowledge, this music did not appeal to core Boomers, at least not to any great extent.  They had simply outgrown this sort of thing.

Really? It didn't strike me as kids' music. Of course, the "New Wave" aspect might be the problem for me, as it tended toward the bland and aimless. But the synthpop part appeals to me; "Good Time" is of course a later example from that same genre. For me, the synthesizers I turned to in the 3T were of course in the New Age genre, rather than the New Wave genre.

Quote:Not that there's anything wrong with liking simple, upbeat pop music as an adult!  I just think it is a type of music that usually tends to appeal more to children.  Perhaps I was being too harsh calling the Owl City song "awful."

That's right. Although in the case of Good Time, it did also appeal to adults.

[pbrower2a]

(06-09-2016, 10:11 PM)taramarie Wrote:

(06-09-2016, 06:31 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(06-09-2016, 01:04 PM)taramarie Wrote: Like i have been saying i do not care if it is your personal opinion. That is the magical word of the day. PERSONAL. I think with you it is like talking to a brick wall. I can see why Galen calls you Obtuse. I have no problem getting through to other people. With you it is like i am speaking another language. I hope you are not an idiot, and just stubborn....hence obtuse. I believe everybody else here understands me except you.

Because you persist in being mean. I guess that's your inclination. You can't be anything but serious, and personal is indeed the word for you, because you take everything personally, can't see humor, and won't let go of a perceived slight. I suggest you get some help for that.

One more mean post from you, and you're on ignore. There's no excuse for your icky behavior. I want to discourage myself from participating in these useless personal arguments. That's what the ignore list is for.

You would save yourself a lot of trouble if you actually listened to me. I had a valid point. No, this is NOT a "mean" post btw. It is just honest. Like i have been the whole time. You can give but not take. Again, not mean, just honest. How you take it next will determine what you get out of that honesty. At least I know (regarding you anyway) i know i am quite serious. Some people here know me on fb and see all my shades. Light and dark.

I consider the "Obtuse" label a gratuitous insult. When I cite material including the insult I try to undo it.

Distortion of a name into something offensive is a terrible insult. Thus if someone had the user "John Morton" and someone distorted it to "John Moron"... well, such would say more about the person who did the distortion than of "John Morton".

[pbrower2a]

Most of us are stubborn about our political beliefs, religious identity, or cultural tastes. Do you really think that I am likely to develop a passion for disco, worship the Devil, or denounce modern art for its modernity? I'm not going to accept creationism or Holocaust denial unless I have a very serious threat of death or severe bodily harm?

[gabrielle]

(06-09-2016, 10:14 PM)taramarie Wrote:

(06-09-2016, 07:41 PM)gabrielle Wrote:

(06-09-2016, 07:29 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: That many people who say they don't like Bieber (I don't know who Beiber is) are older, is an objective fact. There are polls on that too. Some of us older folks liking his music anyway is also an objective fact. My statement that it's sometimes prejudice to not like Bieber is my opinion, although in many cases a valid one. Maybe for many, like gabrielle, songs like Good Time and Pray sound like music for kids, and they don't like that. Myself, I am looking past that, and I hear music that I like a lot in some of those songs. I know from all the thousands of you tube covers of Good Time, and the people who sang on them (sometimes thousands in one video), that a lot of them were 20 or 30-somethings. So that's an "objective fact" that many people who liked that popular song were not "kids."

I also know that many Gen X and some older millie listeners are used to stuff that is rough, edgy and cynical, and the upbeat and simple stuff in 4T millie pop doesn't jive with what they have learned to appreciate and which "expresses their experience." To me, the new simpler and upbeat millie pop is sometimes a relief and a joy.

Here is a song from that window of time you consider a void of creativity in popular music.  It has as catchy a tune as any Millennial pop song; its mood just as simple and upbeat (though if you listen closely to the lyrics they seem better suited to the Nomad's more ambivalent childhood/youth experience).

This is also what I would consider "kid's music."  It was our kid's music; my particular cohort (I was probably 11 or 12 when this song was released) was the audience for this type of pop--New Wave synthpop.  It was mainly teens and tweens buying this music in the early to mid 80s, often in cassette form to listen to in their Walkmans.  But to my knowledge, this music did not appeal to core Boomers, at least not to any great extent.  They had simply outgrown this sort of thing.

Not that there's anything wrong with liking simple, upbeat pop music as an adult!  I just think it is a type of music that usually tends to appeal more to children.  Perhaps I was being too harsh calling the Owl City song "awful."

Bugger the link is not available. My location no doubt.

It is "Fascination" by the Human League.

[gabrielle]

(06-09-2016, 09:38 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(06-09-2016, 07:41 PM)gabrielle Wrote: Here is a song from that window of time you consider a void of creativity in popular music.  It has as catchy a tune as any Millennial pop song; its mood just as simple and upbeat (though if you listen closely to the lyrics they seem better suited to the Nomad's more ambivalent childhood/youth experience).

The 3T was not a void; I just say it was not as good. It has even more lousy pop than usual (all eras have lousy pop), and the best of it was not as good; as I heard it. Your post is interesting, though. That's a nice try. It's not bad, and has a good rhythm; but the problem for me is that the mood and melody of the song lacks something hard to describe. It wanders, and does not strike fire in my heart. I think that's an attitude of those times. Like other New Wave-era pop it avoids the grand and the dynamic in favor of something else hard to describe. I don't know exactly what a more positive term for it would be. Ambivalent, maybe. Reflecting a bored rejection of the scene they grew up in; preferring an "OK, whatever" attitude to the boomer passions.

Quote:This is also what I would consider "kid's music."  It was our kid's music; my particular cohort (I was probably 11 or 12 when this song was released) was the audience for this type of pop--New Wave synthpop.  It was mainly teens and tweens buying this music in the early to mid 80s, often in cassette form to listen to in their Walkmans.  But to my knowledge, this music did not appeal to core Boomers, at least not to any great extent.  They had simply outgrown this sort of thing.

Really? It didn't strike me as kids' music. Of course, the "New Wave" aspect might be the problem for me, as it tended toward the bland and aimless. But the synthpop part appeals to me; "Good Time" is of course a later example from that same genre. For me, the synthesizers I turned to in the 3T were of course in the New Age genre, rather than the New Wave genre.

Quote:Not that there's anything wrong with liking simple, upbeat pop music as an adult!  I just think it is a type of music that usually tends to appeal more to children.  Perhaps I was being too harsh calling the Owl City song "awful."

That's right. Although in the case of Good Time, it did also appeal to adults.

I'm pretty sure my parents thought of New Wave pop as "kid's music," lol.  But they tolerated it.  They certainly didn't call it "lousy" as you do.  They even liked some of it.  They both liked Michael Jackson, for example--both his music and his dancing.  (He might not have been "New Wave" exactly, but he was a pop musician from the same era.)  

"It wanders, and does not strike fire in my heart. I think that's an attitude of those times. Like other New Wave-era pop it avoids the grand and the dynamic in favor of something else hard to describe. I don't know exactly what a more positive term for it would be. Ambivalent, maybe. Reflecting a bored rejection of the scene they grew up in; preferring an "OK, whatever" attitude to the boomer passions."

That is the Boomer narrative, yes:  that Generation X was bored and cynical, that they rejected the admirable visions and passions of their elders.  Since there is no logical reason why anyone would reject such obvious righteousness, there must be something "bad" about Generation X.  Yes, you guys think really highly of yourselves.  Remember, we grew up watching you.  Grew up watching the counter-culture revolution getting dropped the moment the draft was, and the idealist generation settling into complacency and materialism.

"Scratch any cynic and you'll find a disappointed idealist."  --George Carlin (1937-2008)

"All cynicism masks a failure to cope."  --John Fowles (1926-2005)

[Eric the Green]

(06-10-2016, 02:13 AM)gabrielle Wrote: I'm pretty sure my parents thought of New Wave pop as "kid's music," lol.  But they tolerated it.  They certainly didn't call it "lousy" as you do.  They even liked some of it.  They both liked Michael Jackson, for example--both his music and his dancing.  (He might not have been "New Wave" exactly, but he was a pop musician from the same era.)  

I liked some of it too, actually; just not as much as the pop and rock of the era when boomers were "kids" and 20-somethings, and not as much as the millie pop like I posted. But some of it was interesting. Talking Heads and Devo for example.

Quote:That is the Boomer narrative, yes:  that Generation X was bored and cynical, that they rejected the admirable visions and passions of their elders.  Since there is no logical reason why anyone would reject such obvious righteousness, there must be something "bad" about Generation X.  Yes, you guys think really highly of yourselves.  Remember, we grew up watching you.  Grew up watching the counter-culture revolution getting dropped the moment the draft was, and the idealist generation settling into complacency and materialism.

"Scratch any cynic and you'll find a disappointed idealist."  --George Carlin (1937-2008)

"All cynicism masks a failure to cope."  --John Fowles (1926-2005)

My point goes beyond the boomer narrative about Gen Xers; the difference in the sound of pop music between the 2T and the 3T is real, and seems to reflect the general attitude of Gen X toward the boomer youth era and the 2T generally. The music was less romantic and impassioned and more bland, to reflect the mood of rejecting the "righteousness" of boomers and war babies, and a less optimistic attitude no doubt because of what Gen Xers dealt with. No doubt the boomers were disappointing, in the ways you mentioned. And it's usually the case that most members of younger generations are disappointed in their elders, at least in modern saeculum times.

Of course when I referred to "boomer passions," that included some that were not so admirable to me; some boomers were reactionary and they passionately fought with the idealists, and the passion was on both sides. They grew up to be the George W Bush wing of boomers; what we call red boomers now. And those passions were also part of the 2T times, so they were expressed by more than just the young boomers, but by their elders too.

[pbrower2a]

(06-09-2016, 10:51 PM)taramarie Wrote:

(06-09-2016, 10:40 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Most of us are stubborn about our political beliefs or cultural tastes.

Naturally and that i have no issue with. What i have been saying all along is where he crosses the line is when he makes remarks like we are not hearing his music correctly (do not have the ear for it) as if there is something wrong with us. Or what he said to someone else and many of us actually that we do not like biebs because he is a kid and because it is "cool" to hate him. Which implies he does not understand that someone could simply not like it. But then he would say we do not have the ear for his music. Maybe he does not for ours? He thinks music being his specialty gives him the higher ground. But that would only be true if he was being objective to the music....but he isn't. He is making it personal. I find no comedy in it tbh. Maybe you can understand my point on this. It is fine for him to like his music...but not to say what i have mentioned. But he has no trouble throwing out his specialty while not being objective, and saying there is something wrong with us for not liking his type of music (not have the ear for it and not believing we do not like it for what it is but rather blame other reasons. Can you see that point? Maybe he does not have the ear for OUR music? Has he thought of that? As i said to him he can give but cannot take. He can have his fave music. I really do not care. But he should know how he comes across when he says silly things like this. But he will ignore and carry on as usual then wonder why i continue to point it out.

Just consider something like JS Bach's Art of Fugue, the definitive expression of musical counterpoint. It is something one gets -- or does not get. It isn't for everyone. One is attuned to the thinly-veiled mathematical relations of rhythm and tones. But I can at least recognize it. Twelve-tone music? I find it hard to remember. It persists in consciousness or it might as well not exist in my universe.

I don't get Bieber, either.  But I also don't get rap 'music'.

[Eric the Green]

I admitted often that I can be wrong and hear or not hear something that I hear later. Tara refuses to admit that she could be wrong, and hear or not hear something that she might hear later in some music.

I must admit I "got" Bieber from the start. I posted that I liked "Never Say Never" back in Nov.2010, when he performed for the world series that "my" team was playing in. I promptly forgot all about it and then "discovered" him again in April 2012, hearing "Somebody to Love," "Pray" and "Never Say Never" (again). It's true Bieber is not everyone's cup of tea, nor is today's pop in general; but I do think there's a lot of prejudice against him that closes peoples ears to him. That is abundantly clear from all the smears he gets, which is extraordinary considering he's just a talented young guy putting out good songs. The libertarian philosopher Stefan Molyneux set things very straight about JB and those who hate him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyptVWcCvlY

Taramarie will no doubt claim that I am saying she hates JB like those haters Stefan describes. But I am no longer conversing directly with Tara; she's on my ignore list now for making mean remarks about me, and simply labeling them as "not mean" does not change them.

Edit to Add from the archive: Another poster, no backer of me, Amy/ASB65, chimed in early on the Bieber "shrine" and said this:

Eric, I think it's fine that you like Justin Bieber. Everyone is entitled to their own musical opinions. My older son never liked him, but then he generally has never liked any pop music. My younger son loved Justin Bieber for a while and he even had a poster of him in his room. But then his older brother teased him so much about it that he took it down and now he says he doesn't like Justin Bieber anymore. (But truth be told, since my younger son does tend to like pop music more than other kinds of music, he probably secretly still does like Bieber.)

So there's a testimony of peer pressure that people feel to get in line and dislike or hate Justin Bieber. It's a VERY prevalent thing, especially a few years ago.

[Ragnarök_62]

I guess I'll make this my 70's shrine thread.    Ah yes, so many bad jams on FM radio.

[Ragnarök_62]

Another awesome stuff from Bad Company

[Eric the Green]

The best I can find from 1981:

[Mikebert]

I am going to interpret best songs as favorite songs. For me in 1973 it was Layla.  By the late 1970's it was Born to Run. In the 1980's I got into New Wave, and faves were Girl's Talk and Cruel to be Kind.  The last album I bought on vinyl was New Order.  Since then I have been more into classical.  My fave (relatively recent) classical piece is the theme for the Mission.

If I go through the entire corpus of Western music, I would have to say the most kick-ass piece ever written was Beethoven's Ninth just because of the choral.

[gabrielle]

(06-10-2016, 08:10 PM)Mikebert Wrote: I am going to interpret best songs as favorite songs. For me in 1973 it was Layla.  By the late 1970's it was Born to Run. In the 1980's I got into New Wave, and faves were Girl's Talk and Cruel to be Kind.  The last album I bought on vinyl was New Order.  Since then I have been more into classical.  My fave (relatively recent) classical piece is the theme for the Mission.

If I go through the entire corpus of Western music, I would have to say the most kick-ass piece ever written was Beethoven's Ninth just because of the choral.

Sounds like a good idea.

[gabrielle]

I'm indecisive and it's hard for me to narrow down "favorites" of anything, but I will post a few songs that I think are really special.

I guess we'll start with Radiohead, from 2001:

[gabrielle]

Joy Division, "Atmosphere" (1979):

[gabrielle]

Roberta Flack, "The First Time Ever I Saw Your Face," (1969):

[Ragnarök_62]

More from my home decade, the 70's 

[gabrielle]

(06-11-2016, 01:52 AM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote: More from my home decade, the 70's 

Toys In the Attic, good album. "Oooo, it's a sunny day outside my window..."

[Ragnarök_62]

One of the Biggest Hit bands during Jr. high

[Ragnarök_62]

One for us on the hippie side of the redneck/hippie divide. 





Gotta have one of these



and of course one of these.