04-30-2020, 11:12 PM
For those with access, a really beautiful graphical illustration of how the virus spread around the world here:
https://www.wsj.com/graphics/coronavirus...lead_pos10
https://www.wsj.com/graphics/coronavirus...lead_pos10
(04-30-2020, 07:42 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]Did President Trump really need to make that "perfect phone call"? John Bolton (someone that I dislike) called it "a drug deal" -- which is about a contemptuous as one can get toward a gross blunder and literal crime.I've never been a fan of Bolton myself. Did you read his book and learn if the so called "drug deal" was really as bad as it sounded? I dunno, typical business as usual stuff doesn't bother me much these days. I'm pretty sure the stuff related to Biden and his kid that we watched during the impeachment isn't going to bother you enough to stop you from voting for him. I'm sure the idea of him making millions while in office isn't enough either. I doubt the sexual assault stuff related to him won't be enough either. The liberal gals who want to be his running mate have already decided she's lying and he's innocent without a public trial. Good old irony. It's to bad that you're unable to see it.
(04-30-2020, 11:13 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ](04-30-2020, 07:42 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]Did President Trump really need to make that "perfect phone call"? John Bolton (someone that I dislike) called it "a drug deal" -- which is about a contemptuous as one can get toward a gross blunder and literal crime.I've never been a fan of Bolton myself. Did you read his book and learn if the so called "drug deal" was really as bad as it sounded? I dunno, typical business as usual stuff doesn't bother me much these days. I'm pretty sure the stuff related to Biden and his kid that we watched during the impeachment isn't going to bother you enough to stop you from voting for him. I'm sure the idea of him making millions while in office isn't enough either. I doubt the sexual assault stuff related to him won't be enough either. The liberal gals who want to be his running mate have already decided she's lying and he's innocent without a public trial. Good old irony. It's to bad that you're unable to see it.
(04-30-2020, 11:03 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: [ -> ](04-30-2020, 07:35 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]I note how many Asian countries had encountered the SARS and MERS epidemics had planned for future outbreaks. The plans seemed to have worked, in spite of a few mistakes, and in contrast to Trump dismissing our planners.
Wrong. The "ME" in MERS stands for the Middle East, which is not the same as Asia, as you may not be aware. Most Pacific Rim countries have seen at least one change of government since SARS.
To the extent there was a benefit, it was from most of the citizens having been through it before with SARS, and acting before the governments could interfere. Japan and Taiwan did have early restrictions on travel from China, but South Korea missed the boat on that.
(04-30-2020, 03:49 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ](04-30-2020, 03:35 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]You still think he can learn? You must be further gone than I thought.
I think he's shown that he's able to learn better than all of you at this point. Good luck with living under the Progressives and good luck with keeping up with all the taxes and added costs that are going to be imposed on you, your property, your retirement funds and so forth.
(04-30-2020, 04:52 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: [ -> ](04-30-2020, 01:00 PM)David Horn Wrote: [ -> ]Here's a pretty good synopsis of what South Korea did and when.
Much better documentation of the actual facts are here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_coron...outh_Korea
(04-30-2020, 07:22 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ](04-30-2020, 07:08 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]We're only concerned about taxes. Are you sure about that? You guys seem way more concerned about taxation than us. We are more concerned about individual wealth than taxation like you guys. I get the impression that the bulk of the Democratic supporters are either living off it or reliant upon it or directly related to it and empowered by it somehow or another these days. I think it's quite obvious and I'm amazed that you're unable to see it.
The Republican unraveling memes have been low tax, small government, cut domestic spending for years. They have gone way beyond the point of diminishing return.
I know that off an Engineer’s pay I am not living off, reliant, directly related to it or otherwise. Neither do I know of many that are. You sound like you are wallowing in Reagan’s welfare queen myth. If you allow yourself to indulge in a false sense of what is common, you come up with strange ideals.
(04-30-2020, 11:03 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: [ -> ](04-30-2020, 07:35 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]I note how many Asian countries had encountered the SARS and MERS epidemics had planned for future outbreaks. The plans seemed to have worked, in spite of a few mistakes, and in contrast to Trump dismissing our planners.
Wrong. The "ME" in MERS stands for the Middle East, which is not the same as Asia, as you may not be aware. Most Pacific Rim countries have seen at least one change of government since SARS.
To the extent there was a benefit, it was from most of the citizens having been through it before with SARS, and acting before the governments could interfere. Japan and Taiwan did have early restrictions on travel from China, but South Korea missed the boat on that.
(05-01-2020, 07:54 AM)David Horn Wrote: [ -> ]Is there ever a time that you see any benefit at all from common effort? No, this is not the success of individual effort. South Korea was a gentler version than Singapore, I grant you that, but both were collective efforts.
Do you (Warren) like team sports, or are you only interested in track and field, tennis, swimming, speed skating and skiing? Just curious.
(05-01-2020, 10:35 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ](05-01-2020, 07:54 AM)David Horn Wrote: [ -> ]Is there ever a time that you see any benefit at all from common effort? No, this is not the success of individual effort. South Korea was a gentler version than Singapore, I grant you that, but both were collective efforts.
Do you (Warren) like team sports, or are you only interested in track and field, tennis, swimming, speed skating and skiing? Just curious.
Well, when he was younger he was into Fantasy Role Playing, which is a collective effort. I consider it to be a shared daydream.
(05-01-2020, 10:38 AM)David Horn Wrote: [ -> ](05-01-2020, 10:35 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ](05-01-2020, 07:54 AM)David Horn Wrote: [ -> ]Is there ever a time that you see any benefit at all from common effort? No, this is not the success of individual effort. South Korea was a gentler version than Singapore, I grant you that, but both were collective efforts.
Do you (Warren) like team sports, or are you only interested in track and field, tennis, swimming, speed skating and skiing? Just curious.
Well, when he was younger he was into Fantasy Role Playing, which is a collective effort. I consider it to be a shared daydream.
If it takes place IRL, then it's collective. If it happens on a computer screen, not so much.
(04-30-2020, 07:08 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ](04-30-2020, 04:09 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]We're only concerned about taxes. Are you sure about that? You guys seem way more concerned about taxes/ taxation than us. We are more concerned about wealth than taxation like you guys. I get the impression that the bulk of the Democratic supporters these days are either living off it or reliant upon it stuff related to it or directly related to it politically and empowered by it somehow or another these days. I think it's quite obvious and I'm amazed that you're unable to see it. So, how much did you pay for your solar panels? I assume that it costed you a lot more than 4000. I had a customer who paid several thousand dollars to have them installed.(04-30-2020, 03:49 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ](04-30-2020, 03:35 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]You still think he can learn? You must be further gone than I thought.
I think he's shown that he's able to learn better than all of you at this point. Good luck with living under the Progressives and good luck with keeping up with all the taxes and added costs that are going to be imposed on you, your property, your retirement funds and so forth.
See, you guys are only concerned about taxes. Blue people might pay more taxes, but we create a society in which there's more prosperity and opportunity because we pay more taxes. You git whutcha pay fer. I just paid my taxes, but I got a good $4000 federal credit for my solar panels this year. I'm glad the Democrats insisted on keeping it before Trump got in.
(04-30-2020, 07:46 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ](04-30-2020, 04:06 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]UP in the new age ethersYep. You go right ahead and continue dreaming on....
I even learned something from HIM today. Who knows, my good example could inspire him. Oh well, I dream on....
(05-01-2020, 07:44 AM)David Horn Wrote: [ -> ]That looks like a success story to me.
(05-01-2020, 07:54 AM)David Horn Wrote: [ -> ](04-30-2020, 11:03 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: [ -> ]Wrong. The "ME" in MERS stands for the Middle East, which is not the same as Asia, as you may not be aware. Most Pacific Rim countries have seen at least one change of government since SARS.
To the extent there was a benefit, it was from most of the citizens having been through it before with SARS, and acting before the governments could interfere. Japan and Taiwan did have early restrictions on travel from China, but South Korea missed the boat on that.
Is there ever a time that you see any benefit at all from common effort? No, this is not the success of individual effort. South Korea was a gentler version than Singapore, I grant you that, but both were collective efforts.
(05-01-2020, 12:44 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]My solar panels cost almost $14,000, and I got more than $4000 as a credit, reducing my tax bill this year by that amount. You have to have at least that much in taxes due otherwise in order to take the credit, though; which I did this past year.
(05-01-2020, 04:13 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: [ -> ](05-01-2020, 07:54 AM)David Horn Wrote: [ -> ](04-30-2020, 11:03 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: [ -> ]Wrong. The "ME" in MERS stands for the Middle East, which is not the same as Asia, as you may not be aware. Most Pacific Rim countries have seen at least one change of government since SARS.
To the extent there was a benefit, it was from most of the citizens having been through it before with SARS, and acting before the governments could interfere. Japan and Taiwan did have early restrictions on travel from China, but South Korea missed the boat on that.
Is there ever a time that you see any benefit at all from common effort? No, this is not the success of individual effort. South Korea was a gentler version than Singapore, I grant you that, but both were collective efforts.
Everyone wearing masks actually is a common, collective effort. It's just not a government run effort.
It's a perfect example of the "think globally, act locally" philosophy that dominated the environmental movement in the 1970s. In this case, "think globally" means, "if everyone wore a mask, then transmission would be cut massively, thus greatly reducing the damage from the pandemic". "Act locally" means, "therefore I should wear a mask, even though my mask doesn't protect me personally, because if everyone does it, then everyone will be protected, including myself".
I don't understand how any Boomers could have missed that, without missing the counterculture entirely. I'm sure Eric would understand it. It amazes me that any Boomer could have to wait for the government to tell him what to do before he could take action.
(05-01-2020, 10:22 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not sure what the science says about how well masks work. It depends on the quality of the mask, at least. Many of them have to be cleaned after each use or replaced after each use. Because of that doubt, other measures have been taken as well by governments.