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(10-03-2020, 03:35 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-03-2020, 02:48 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]I think it's normal for Trump to take precautionary steps like he did at this point. It makes sense to me.

It is certainly normal for Trump to paint a rosy picture of COVID.  It is normal for him to hide stuff from the people.  It is normal for him to be all in favor of exotic treatments and miracle stuff.  Lots of stuff regarding Trump is in character.

The accelerated timeframe of COVID?  Less normal.  

This does seem one time his habit of lying to the people or feeding them lies may be backfiring.  People wouldn't be expecting the truth even if he offered it.
He didn't hide that he tested positive for COVID19 or hide that he was going to the hospital for treatment or hide that he received an exotic treatment that boosts his natural immunity and aids faster recovery either. You seem to be out of the loop as far as all the advancements that have been made by scientists and doctors who have been successfully treating people for several months.
(10-05-2020, 12:21 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]He didn't hide that he tested positive for COVID19 or hide that he was  going to the hospital for treatment  or hide that he received an exotic treatment that boosts his natural immunity and aids faster recovery either. You seem to be out of the loop as far as all the advancements that have been made by scientists and doctors who have been successfully treating people for several months.

It was an experimental medication that reduced inflammation at the possible cost of increasing infection.  In other words, mask the symptoms while taking a risk with the disease.  Don't know all, but I'm a bit wary of the approach.

I doubt he could have hid it effectively, at least while not turning the White House into an infection machine.  It apparently took a bit to get him to the hospital.  We'll see.  One factor is that much of the staff is not on the executive medical plan.  At Walter Reed you are pretty much isolated.  In the White House you have the staff to worry about, the kitchen help, the cleaners, the Gardners, etc...  Of course it only makes a difference if you care about ordinary people.

I understand they have made minor updates in fighting the disease, but no breakthroughs.  People are still dying.  The percentages and delays of cases vs hospitalizations vs deaths is still similar.
(10-05-2020, 02:30 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-05-2020, 12:21 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]He didn't hide that he tested positive for COVID19 or hide that he was  going to the hospital for treatment  or hide that he received an exotic treatment that boosts his natural immunity and aids faster recovery either. You seem to be out of the loop as far as all the advancements that have been made by scientists and doctors who have been successfully treating people for several months.

It was an experimental medication that reduced inflammation at the possible cost of increasing infection.  In other words, mask the symptoms while taking a risk with the disease.  Don't know all, but I'm a bit wary of the approach.

I doubt he could have hid it effectively, at least while not turning the White House into an infection machine.  It apparently took a bit to get him to the hospital.  We'll see.  One factor is that much of the staff is not on the executive medical plan.  At Walter Reed you are pretty much isolated.  In the White House you have the staff to worry about, the kitchen help, the cleaners, the Gardners, etc...  Of course it only makes a difference if you care about ordinary people.

I understand they have made minor updates in fighting the disease, but no breakthroughs.  People are still dying.  The percentages and delays of cases vs hospitalizations vs deaths is still similar.

According to many experts on infectious disease, the treatment Trump is getting is only productive in serious cases.  In minor cases, it can be detrimental.  What that means in this case is hard to determine. Trump hates and fears hospitals, so anything to get out of there has his vote.
(10-05-2020, 12:21 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-03-2020, 03:35 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-03-2020, 02:48 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]I think it's normal for Trump to take precautionary steps like he did at this point. It makes sense to me.

It is certainly normal for Trump to paint a rosy picture of COVID.  It is normal for him to hide stuff from the people.  It is normal for him to be all in favor of exotic treatments and miracle stuff.  Lots of stuff regarding Trump is in character.

The accelerated timeframe of COVID?  Less normal.  

This does seem one time his habit of lying to the people or feeding them lies may be backfiring.  People wouldn't be expecting the truth even if he offered it.

He didn't hide that he tested positive for COVID19 or hide that he was  going to the hospital for treatment  or hide that he received an exotic treatment that boosts his natural immunity and aids faster recovery either. You seem to be out of the loop as far as all the advancements that have been made by scientists and doctors who have been successfully treating people for several months.

Those were not precautionary steps. Those were drastic measures, the sorts that are done when one is in imminent peril of death. 

...The President kept going to political rallies and fund raisers when he knew he had cause to suspect that he had COVID-19.  The aggressive treatment indicates that he waited too long because he had other priorities. Taking the ride past a cheering crowd (organized by a state Republican Party) may be one thing that he does to keep his spirits up. 

The trouble is only beginning. Sure, he may lick the original infection, but it leaves plentiful consequences. Orange damage is a possibility. Blood clots form easily and can kill if they get to the heart or lungs. There is the possibility of diabetes that is never easy for an obese, elderly person. 

No, Trump didn't hide it. People leaked details, and some of us thought that things were worse because the drugs used were for later-stage treatment. Trump is a nightmare as a patient, someone who tries to order physicians about. The news media watch every move of the President. One of the first jobs that one gets as a video journalist may be covering landings or take-offs of Air Force One or Marine One because any crash of either, however unlikely, is instant news. It is impossible to hide when the President leaves the White House. There's a working camera on the vehicle garage .
Trump got experimental treatments that only a few people can get.
(10-05-2020, 03:10 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]Those were not precautionary steps. Those were drastic measures, the sorts that are done when one is in imminent peril of death. 

...The President kept going to political rallies and fund raisers when he knew he had cause to suspect that he had COVID-19.  The aggressive treatment indicates that he waited too long because he had other priorities. Taking the ride past a cheering crowd (organized by a state Republican Party) may be one thing that he does to keep his spirits up. 

The trouble is only beginning. Sure, he may lick the original infection, but it leaves plentiful consequences. Orange damage is a possibility. Blood clots form easily and can kill if they get to the heart or lungs. There is the possibility of diabetes that is never easy for an obese, elderly person. 

No, Trump didn't hide it. People leaked details, and some of us thought that things were worse because the drugs used were for later-stage treatment. Trump is a nightmare as a patient, someone who tries to order physicians about. The news media watch every move of the President. One of the first jobs that one gets as a video journalist may be covering landings or take-offs of Air Force One or Marine One because any crash of either, however unlikely, is instant news. It is impossible to hide when the President leaves the White House.  There's a working camera on the vehicle garage .
You were pathetic during the Obama years and you're still pathetic today.
(10-07-2020, 01:01 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]Trump got experimental treatments that only a few people cab get.
He's the President of the United States.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Most new cases Oct 6, nations:

India 72,106
USA 44,664
Brazil 30,454
Argentina 14,740
UK 14,542
Spain 12,793
Russia 11,615
France 10,489
Colombia 7650
Israel 4717

Most new deaths, nations:
India 991
USA 808
Brazil 798
Argentina 359
Spain 261
Iran 227
Russia 188
Mexico 180
Colombia 173
Indonesia 121

Most new cases, USA:
Texas 4424
Missouri 3009
California 2734
Florida 2251
Wisconsin 2020
Tennessee 1676
Illinois 1617
North Carolina 1504
New York 1409
Oklahoma 1364

Most new deaths, USA:
Texas 100
California 84
Florida 69
Missouri 42
Georgia 37
North Carolina 33
Illinois 31
Indiana 30
Tennessee 24
Michigan and Arkansas 22
(10-07-2020, 01:18 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-07-2020, 01:01 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]Trump got experimental treatments that only a few people cab get.
He's the President of the United States.

Hopefully, not for long.
(10-07-2020, 01:16 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-05-2020, 03:10 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]Those were not precautionary steps. Those were drastic measures, the sorts that are done when one is in imminent peril of death. 

...The President kept going to political rallies and fund raisers when he knew he had cause to suspect that he had COVID-19.  The aggressive treatment indicates that he waited too long because he had other priorities. Taking the ride past a cheering crowd (organized by a state Republican Party) may be one thing that he does to keep his spirits up. 

The trouble is only beginning. Sure, he may lick the original infection, but it leaves plentiful consequences. Orange damage is a possibility. Blood clots form easily and can kill if they get to the heart or lungs. There is the possibility of diabetes that is never easy for an obese, elderly person. 

No, Trump didn't hide it. People leaked details, and some of us thought that things were worse because the drugs used were for later-stage treatment. Trump is a nightmare as a patient, someone who tries to order physicians about. The news media watch every move of the President. One of the first jobs that one gets as a video journalist may be covering landings or take-offs of Air Force One or Marine One because any crash of either, however unlikely, is instant news. It is impossible to hide when the President leaves the White House.  There's a working camera on the vehicle garage .

You were pathetic during the Obama years  and you're still pathetic today.

I am not the issue. Trump is.

I can put things together. 

I saw MSNBC coverage. When the world's most important COVID-19 patient is at Walter Reed Hospital, a bunch of people in medical smocks are in front in a photo op. If that didn't look fishy to you, what can?
The New England Journal of Medicine has never endorsed a President in its 208-year history. Physicians do everything possible to avoid medical malpractice. So should the political leaders, in my opinion.

I cite it in full due to its importance:


Quote:Covid-19 has created a crisis throughout the world. This crisis has produced a test of leadership. With no good options to combat a novel pathogen, countries were forced to make hard choices about how to respond. Here in the United States, our leaders have failed that test. They have taken a crisis and turned it into a tragedy.
The magnitude of this failure is astonishing. According to the Johns Hopkins Center for Systems Science and Engineering,1 the United States leads the world in Covid-19 cases and in deaths due to the disease, far exceeding the numbers in much larger countries, such as China. The death rate in this country is more than double that of Canada, exceeds that of Japan, a country with a vulnerable and elderly population, by a factor of almost 50, and even dwarfs the rates in lower-middle-income countries, such as Vietnam, by a factor of almost 2000. Covid-19 is an overwhelming challenge, and many factors contribute to its severity. But the one we can control is how we behave. And in the United States we have consistently behaved poorly.
SIGN UP

We know that we could have done better. China, faced with the first outbreak, chose strict quarantine and isolation after an initial delay. These measures were severe but effective, essentially eliminating transmission at the point where the outbreak began and reducing the death rate to a reported 3 per million, as compared with more than 500 per million in the United States. Countries that had far more exchange with China, such as Singapore and South Korea, began intensive testing early, along with aggressive contact tracing and appropriate isolation, and have had relatively small outbreaks. And New Zealand has used these same measures, together with its geographic advantages, to come close to eliminating the disease, something that has allowed that country to limit the time of closure and to largely reopen society to a prepandemic level. In general, not only have many democracies done better than the United States, but they have also outperformed us by orders of magnitude.


Why has the United States handled this pandemic so badly? We have failed at almost every step. We had ample warning, but when the disease first arrived, we were incapable of testing effectively and couldn’t provide even the most basic personal protective equipment to health care workers and the general public. And we continue to be way behind the curve in testing. While the absolute numbers of tests have increased substantially, the more useful metric is the number of tests performed per infected person, a rate that puts us far down the international list, below such places as Kazakhstan, Zimbabwe, and Ethiopia, countries that cannot boast the biomedical infrastructure or the manufacturing capacity that we have.2 Moreover, a lack of emphasis on developing capacity has meant that U.S. test results are often long delayed, rendering the results useless for disease control.


Although we tend to focus on technology, most of the interventions that have large effects are not complicated. The United States instituted quarantine and isolation measures late and inconsistently, often without any effort to enforce them, after the disease had spread substantially in many communities. Our rules on social distancing have in many places been lackadaisical at best, with loosening of restrictions long before adequate disease control had been achieved. And in much of the country, people simply don’t wear masks, largely because our leaders have stated outright that masks are political tools rather than effective infection control measures. The government has appropriately invested heavily in vaccine development, but its rhetoric has politicized the development process and led to growing public distrust.


The United States came into this crisis with enormous advantages. Along with tremendous manufacturing capacity, we have a biomedical research system that is the envy of the world. We have enormous expertise in public health, health policy, and basic biology and have consistently been able to turn that expertise into new therapies and preventive measures. And much of that national expertise resides in government institutions. Yet our leaders have largely chosen to ignore and even denigrate experts.


The response of our nation’s leaders has been consistently inadequate. The federal government has largely abandoned disease control to the states. Governors have varied in their responses, not so much by party as by competence. But whatever their competence, governors do not have the tools that Washington controls. Instead of using those tools, the federal government has undermined them. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, which was the world’s leading disease response organization, has been eviscerated and has suffered dramatic testing and policy failures. The National Institutes of Health have played a key role in vaccine development but have been excluded from much crucial government decision making. And the Food and Drug Administration has been shamefully politicized,3 appearing to respond to pressure from the administration rather than scientific evidence. Our current leaders have undercut trust in science and in government,4 causing damage that will certainly outlast them. Instead of relying on expertise, the administration has turned to uninformed “opinion leaders” and charlatans who obscure the truth and facilitate the promulgation of outright lies.


Let’s be clear about the cost of not taking even simple measures. An outbreak that has disproportionately affected communities of color has exacerbated the tensions associated with inequality. Many of our children are missing school at critical times in their social and intellectual development. The hard work of health care professionals, who have put their lives on the line, has not been used wisely. Our current leadership takes pride in the economy, but while most of the world has opened up to some extent, the United States still suffers from disease rates that have prevented many businesses from reopening, with a resultant loss of hundreds of billions of dollars and millions of jobs. And more than 200,000 Americans have died. Some deaths from Covid-19 were unavoidable. But, although it is impossible to project the precise number of additional American lives lost because of weak and inappropriate government policies, it is at least in the tens of thousands in a pandemic that has already killed more Americans than any conflict since World War II.


Anyone else who recklessly squandered lives and money in this way would be suffering legal consequences. Our leaders have largely claimed immunity for their actions. But this election gives us the power to render judgment. Reasonable people will certainly disagree about the many political positions taken by candidates. But truth is neither liberal nor conservative. When it comes to the response to the largest public health crisis of our time, our current political leaders have demonstrated that they are dangerously incompetent. We should not abet them and enable the deaths of thousands more Americans by allowing them to keep their jobs.


Disclosure forms provided by the authors are available with the full text of this editorial at NEJM.org

If this isn't good reason to vote out Trump and his enablers, then what is?
(10-07-2020, 01:18 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-07-2020, 01:01 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]Trump got experimental treatments that only a few people cab get.

He's the President of the United States.

It's still an open question whether he gained in the long run, or merely got a huge steroid boost.  If anything actually helped, it will be the monoclonal antibodies.  Evaluating them will take time.
I gather the White House has officially gone with herd immunity as their official response to the virus. I guess it goes with their policy of holding super spreader rallies. MSNBC has been reporting herd immunity as a quack non scientific theory that is equivalent of spreading the virus and causing as many deaths as possible. If you infect a large enough number of people with the bug to get the desired percentage of people immune, and if the percentage of people dies as has, you get millions of deaths. Also, if things proceed on the current schedules, the vaccines will be developed and distributed well before the immune level is reached, and the deaths they are causing won't have an effect. The people would have died for no reason.

But you can't accuse the Republicans of not having a plan anymore.
(10-14-2020, 02:42 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]I gather the White House has officially gone with herd immunity as their official response to the virus.  I guess it goes with their policy of holding super spreader rallies.  MSNBC has been reporting herd immunity as a quack non scientific theory that is equivalent of spreading the virus and causing as many deaths as possible.  If you infect a large enough number of people with the bug to get the desired percentage of people immune, and if the percentage of people dies as has, you get millions of deaths.  Also, if things proceed on the current schedules, the vaccines will be developed and distributed well before the immune level is reached, and the deaths they are causing won't have an effect.  The people would have died for no reason.

But you can't accuse the Republicans of not having a plan anymore.

Hard as the lockdown was in Michigan, I am glad that we had it. Without it we would have gotten COVID-19 far worse

I had never heard of herd immunity before Donald Trump promoted it with such an air of authority. Now that I think about it it would be like exposing oneself to as many rodents (and the fleas upon them) as possible during the Black Death.
(10-14-2020, 04:49 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-14-2020, 02:42 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]I gather the White House has officially gone with herd immunity as their official response to the virus.  I guess it goes with their policy of holding super spreader rallies.  MSNBC has been reporting herd immunity as a quack non scientific theory that is equivalent of spreading the virus and causing as many deaths as possible.  If you infect a large enough number of people with the bug to get the desired percentage of people immune, and if the percentage of people dies as has, you get millions of deaths.  Also, if things proceed on the current schedules, the vaccines will be developed and distributed well before the immune level is reached, and the deaths they are causing won't have an effect.  The people would have died for no reason.

But you can't accuse the Republicans of not having a plan anymore.

Hard as the lockdown was in Michigan, I am glad that we had it. Without it we would have gotten COVID-19 far worse

I had never heard of herd immunity before Donald Trump promoted it with such an air of authority. Now that I think about it it would be like exposing oneself to as many rodents (and the fleas upon them) as possible during the Black Death.

And yet said lockdown was the inspiration for a failed kidnapping of the state’s governor. We had the lockdown in Illinois as well. There are those that think it should have lasted a month longer, that if we had it would have been licked. Now it has gotten worse again even though we’re not even into traditional flu season as yet. Prime time for that is not until after the holiday season, usually mid-January through mid-March.
(10-14-2020, 08:34 AM)beechnut79 Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-14-2020, 04:49 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-14-2020, 02:42 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]I gather the White House has officially gone with herd immunity as their official response to the virus.  I guess it goes with their policy of holding super spreader rallies.  MSNBC has been reporting herd immunity as a quack non scientific theory that is equivalent of spreading the virus and causing as many deaths as possible.  If you infect a large enough number of people with the bug to get the desired percentage of people immune, and if the percentage of people dies as has, you get millions of deaths.  Also, if things proceed on the current schedules, the vaccines will be developed and distributed well before the immune level is reached, and the deaths they are causing won't have an effect.  The people would have died for no reason.

But you can't accuse the Republicans of not having a plan anymore.

Hard as the lockdown was in Michigan, I am glad that we had it. Without it we would have gotten COVID-19 far worse

I had never heard of herd immunity before Donald Trump promoted it with such an air of authority. Now that I think about it it would be like exposing oneself to as many rodents (and the fleas upon them) as possible during the Black Death.

And yet said lockdown was the inspiration for a failed kidnapping of the state’s governor. We had the lockdown in Illinois as well. There are those that think it should have lasted a month longer, that if we had it would have been licked. Now it has gotten worse again even though we’re not even into traditional flu season as yet. Prime time for that is not until after the holiday season, usually mid-January through mid-March.

Do get a flu shot if you have not done so already. You do not want to be referred to a hospital out of fear that 'your' influenza is COVID-19, only to be exposed to COVID-19 which is far worse.  

........

As people found ways to reduce the risks of COVID-19, such places as bookstores, libraries, boat launches, and golf courses were able to re-open.  Bars have largely shut down and remain so -- but liquor stores remained open. The second wave of the pandemic relates heavily to people trying to return to 3T behavior when such has proved dangerous. The lockdown was piecemeal, reflecting that some state4s locked down and some didn't. 

I don't blame the politicians for the lockdown. I blame the politicians who let COVID-19 get a break -- to kill nearly 220,000 people and still counting.
#/...State/... Total Cases../New Cases/ TotalDeaths/.NewDeaths/ (politics, I add) (region)
USA Total...... 9,212,767....+91,530....234,177......+1,047
1 Texas 942,486 +7,187 18,402 +113 red (governor)...south
2 California 925,055 +4,250 17,571 +30 blue...west
3 Florida 794,624 +4,198 16,656 +82 red (governor)...south
4 New York 539,715 +2,511 33,643 +22 blue...east
5 Illinois 400,171 +6,363 9,945 +56 blue...midwest
6 Georgia 356,848 +1,823 7,923 +47 red (governor)...south
7 North Carolina 269,021 +2,885 4,283 +38 purple...south
8 Tennessee 256,880 +2,660 3,263 +22 red...south
9 Arizona 242,480 +1,315 5,918 +13 purple...west
10 New Jersey 239,375 +1,658 16,464 +10 blue...east
11 Wisconsin 214,996 +4,870 1,948 +51 purple...midwest
12 Ohio 208,997 +3,579 5,325 +19 purple...midwest
13 Pennsylvania 208,087 +2,235 8,837 +38 purple...east
14 Michigan 190,043 +4,109 7,653 +47 purple...midwest
15 Alabama 189,149 +1,443 2,914 +3 red...south
16 Missouri 186,194 +3,000 3,047 +46 red...midwest/south
17 Louisiana 181,837 +394 5,908 +18 red...south
18 Virginia 178,183 +1,429 3,636 +20 purple...south
19 South Carolina 174,591 +1,100 3,889 +13 red...south
20 Indiana 172,730 +3,618 4,260 +33 red...midwest
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/
232,000 have died in America, surpassing the population of Richmond, Virginia. The death toll would be the 97th-largest city in the United States. To be sure, you might not easily recognize the next four cities on the list (Hialeah FL; Irving TX; Garland TX; Fremont CA) unless you have been in the cities around them... but deaths are deaths.

Death from COVID-19 is tragedy without heroism. We have just said an eruption of new cases, and deaths usually lag.
COVID-19 pandemic by location 1 November 2020


Country Confirmed cases Deaths Case fatality rate Deaths per 100,000 population
San Marino 928 42 4.5% 124.32
Peru 900,180 34,411 3.8% 107.57
Belgium 429,229 11,625 2.7% 101.78
Andorra 4,756 75 1.6% 97.40
Bolivia 141,757 8,725 6.2% 76.85
Spain 1,185,678 35,878 3.0% 76.79
Brazil 5,535,605 159,884 2.9% 76.33
Chile 510,256 14,207 2.8% 75.85
Ecuador 168,192 12,670 7.5% 74.16
Mexico 924,962 91,753 9.9% 72.71
United States 9,125,482 230,548 2.5% 70.47
United Kingdom 1,014,793 46,645 4.6% 70.15
Argentina 1,166,924 31,002 2.7% 69.68
Panama 133,598 2,700 2.0% 64.64
Italy 679,430 38,618 5.7% 63.90
Colombia 1,073,809 31,598 2.9% 63.64
Sweden 124,355 5,938 4.8% 58.31
France 1,412,709 36,826 2.6% 54.97
Moldova 76,040 1,785 2.3% 50.34
Montenegro 18,341 301 1.6% 48.37
North Macedonia 31,572 994 3.1% 47.72
Armenia 89,813 1,341 1.5% 45.43
Netherlands 357,640 7,459 2.1% 43.29
Iran 612,772 34,864 5.7% 42.62
Ireland 61,456 1,913 3.1% 39.41
Bahamas 6,714 144 2.1% 37.34
Bosnia and Herzegovina 50,090 1,234 2.5% 37.12
Kosovo 19,328 678 3.5% 36.74
Romania 241,339 6,968 2.9% 35.78
South Africa 725,452 19,276 2.7% 33.36
Czech Republic 335,102 3,251 1.0% 30.60
Israel 314,422 2,539 0.8% 28.58
Iraq 472,630 10,910 2.3% 28.39
Honduras 96,888 2,669 2.8% 27.84
Costa Rica 109,971 1,385 1.3% 27.70
Canada 237,313 10,187 4.3% 27.49
Switzerland 154,251 2,297 1.5% 26.97
Oman 114,434 1,208 1.1% 25.01
Luxembourg 17,134 152 0.9% 25.01
Portugal 141,279 2,507 1.8% 24.38
Guatemala 107,939 3,729 3.5% 21.62
Dominican Republic 127,018 2,245 1.8% 21.13
Bahrain 81,645 321 0.4% 20.45
Paraguay 63,185 1,404 2.2% 20.18
Suriname 5,203 111 2.1% 19.27
Russia 1,606,267 27,787 1.7% 19.23
Kuwait 125,926 779 0.6% 18.83
Bulgaria 52,844 1,279 2.4% 18.21
Kyrgyzstan 58,878 1,144 1.9% 18.11
Hungary 75,321 1,750 2.3% 17.91
Albania 20,875 509 2.4% 17.76
Cape Verde 8,793 95 1.1% 17.47
Ukraine 399,330 7,399 1.9% 16.58
Slovenia 34,307 338 1.0% 16.35
Saudi Arabia 347,282 5,402 1.6% 16.03
Guyana 4,162 124 3.0% 15.92
Belize 3,487 59 1.7% 15.40
El Salvador 33,445 975 2.9% 15.19
Poland 362,731 5,631 1.6% 14.83
Croatia 49,316 546 1.1% 13.35
Libya 61,095 857 1.4% 12.83
Malta 6,042 62 1.0% 12.82
Germany 531,790 10,483 2.0% 12.64
Austria 104,925 1,109 1.1% 12.54
Turkey 375,367 10,252 2.7% 12.45
Denmark 46,863 721 1.5% 12.44
Serbia 46,954 820 1.7% 11.74
Tunisia 59,813 1,317 2.2% 11.39
Palestine 53,520 483 0.9% 10.57
Belarus 98,482 980 1.0% 10.33
Eswatini 5,917 117 2.0% 10.30
Morocco 219,084 3,695 1.7% 10.26
Kazakhstan 112,418 1,825 1.6% 9.99
Lebanon 81,228 637 0.8% 9.30
India 8,137,119 121,641 1.5% 8.99
Qatar 132,556 232 0.2% 8.34
Jordan 72,607 829 1.1% 8.33
Georgia 38,936 307 0.8% 8.23
Liechtenstein 533 3 0.6% 7.91
Trinidad and Tobago 5,692 108 1.9% 7.77
São Tomé and Príncipe 945 16 1.7% 7.58
Maldives 11,659 38 0.3% 7.37
Azerbaijan 55,269 730 1.3% 7.34
Jamaica 9,094 206 2.3% 7.02
Philippines 380,729 7,221 1.9% 6.77
Finland 16,113 358 2.2% 6.49
Egypt 107,555 6,266 5.8% 6.37
Djibouti 5,561 61 1.1% 6.36
Equatorial Guinea 5,088 83 1.6% 6.34
Lithuania 14,824 165 1.1% 5.91
Greece 39,251 626 1.6% 5.84
Estonia 4,905 73 1.5% 5.53
Namibia 12,935 133 1.0% 5.43
Norway 20,331 282 1.4% 5.31
Gambia 3,672 119 3.2% 5.22
Indonesia 410,088 13,869 3.4% 5.18
United Arab Emirates 132,629 495 0.4% 5.14
Algeria 57,942 1,964 3.4% 4.65
Afghanistan 41,425 1,536 3.7% 4.13
Slovakia 57,664 219 0.4% 4.02
Mauritania 7,703 163 2.1% 3.70
Latvia 5,894 71 1.2% 3.69
Bangladesh 407,684 5,923 1.5% 3.67
Australia 27,595 907 3.3% 3.63
Iceland 4,865 12 0.2% 3.39
Nepal 170,743 937 0.5% 3.34
Pakistan 333,970 6,823 2.0% 3.22
Antigua and Barbuda 128 3 2.3% 3.12
Venezuela 92,013 798 0.9% 2.76
Gabon 8,968 55 0.6% 2.60
Barbados 237 7 3.0% 2.44
Nicaragua 5,514 156 2.8% 2.41
Burma 52,706 1,237 2.3% 2.30
Guinea-Bissau 2,413 41 1.7% 2.19
Cyprus 4,366 26 0.6% 2.19
Yemen 2,063 599 29.0% 2.10
Lesotho 1,953 44 2.3% 2.09
Haiti 9,057 232 2.6% 2.09
Senegal 15,616 324 2.1% 2.04
Zambia 16,432 349 2.1% 2.01
Sudan 13,804 837 6.1% 2.00
Kenya 55,192 981 1.8% 1.91
Congo 5,290 92 1.7% 1.75
Uzbekistan 66,932 566 0.8% 1.72
Syria 5,728 288 5.0% 1.70
Liberia 1,426 82 5.8% 1.70
Cameroon 21,793 426 2.0% 1.69
Zimbabwe 8,367 243 2.9% 1.68
Uruguay 3,124 58 1.9% 1.68
Japan 101,327 1,769 1.7% 1.40
Ethiopia 96,169 1,469 1.5% 1.34
Central African Republic 4,866 62 1.3% 1.33
Cuba 6,887 128 1.9% 1.13
Ghana 48,055 320 0.7% 1.08
Botswana 6,642 24 0.4% 1.06
Malawi 5,930 184 3.1% 1.01
Sierra Leone 2,366 74 3.1% 0.97
Madagascar 17,111 244 1.4% 0.93
Angola 10,805 284 2.6% 0.92
South Korea 26,635 466 1.7% 0.90
Tajikistan 11,017 82 0.7% 0.90
Comoros 545 7 1.3% 0.84
Mauritius 441 10 2.3% 0.79
Malaysia 31,548 249 0.8% 0.79
Togo 2,331 57 2.4% 0.72
Mali 3,554 136 3.8% 0.71
Brunei 148 3 2.0% 0.70
Somalia 3,941 104 2.6% 0.69
Chad 1,483 98 6.6% 0.63
Nigeria 62,853 1,144 1.8% 0.58
Guinea 12,072 72 0.6% 0.58
South Sudan 2,905 58 2.0% 0.53
New Zealand 1,959 25 1.3% 0.51
Ivory Coast 20,716 126 0.6% 0.50
Singapore 58,015 28 0.0% 0.50
DR Congo 11,306 307 2.7% 0.37
Benin 2,643 41 1.6% 0.36
China 91,366 4,739 5.2% 0.34
Burkina Faso 2,500 67 2.7% 0.34
Mozambique 12,869 92 0.7% 0.31
Niger 1,220 69 5.7% 0.31
Rwanda 5,137 35 0.7% 0.28
Uganda 12,495 111 0.9% 0.26
Sri Lanka 10,663 20 0.2% 0.09
Thailand 3,784 59 1.6% 0.08
Papua New Guinea 589 7 1.2% 0.08
Tanzania 509 21 4.1% 0.04
Vietnam 1,180 35 3.0% 0.04
Taiwan 555 7 1.3% 0.03

Wikipedia. What are Taiwan and Vietnam doing right?
I know, there's been a lot of death, a lot of death.... please pass around these pens.....