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(02-17-2021, 11:46 AM)David Horn Wrote: [ -> ]Einzige is a Marxist, so anything other than the Soviet model is out of bounds for him.

Nitpick. Einzige distinguishes between theoretical Marxism and Communism as it actually occurred. Very different. He has denounced the Soviet Model, but most people have rejected all violence, all boots on the ground. I would replace 'the Soviet model' with 'the Marxist model'.

But other than that, I would agree.
Well, I did get the first half of the inoculation. It was quite an adventure due to car trouble and some heavy snowdrifts.
#......Country.........Total Cases.....New Cases.....Total Deaths.....New Deaths
.........World...........110,423,750....+397,372.......2,439,907........+11,383
1.......USA................28,453,526.....+71,640...........502,544..........+2,537
2.......India...............10,949,546....+12,440..........156,038...............+89
3.......Brazil.................9,979,276....+57,295..........242,178..........+1,195
4.......Russia................4,112,151....+12,828...........81,446.............+467
5.......UK.....................4,071,185....+12,718.........118,933.............+738
6.......France...............3,514,147....+25,018...........83,122.............+310
7.......Spain.................3,107,172....+10,829...........66,316............+337
8.......Italy...................2,751,650....+12,067...........94,540............+369
9.......Turkey...............2,609,359......+7,325...........27,738..............+86
10.....Germany............2,362,384......+9,618...........67,074............+538
11.....Colombia............2,207,701......+5,103...........58,134............+185
12.....Argentina...........2,039,124......+6,064............50,616............+184
13.....Mexico...............2,004,575......+8,683..........175,986.........+1,329
14.....Poland...............1,605,373......+8,695............41,309............+280
15.....Iran...................1,542,076......+8,042............59,184..............+67
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

The UK variant surge is happening in Germany, Poland, Chechia and, it looks like, the USA, and elsewhere. Brazilian variant surge in Brazil. Vaccine supply is too low.

Previous list: http://generational-theory.com/forum/thr...l#pid74897

#......State....................Total Cases.......New Cases......Total Deaths......New Deaths
........USA Total..............28,453,526.......+71,640..........502,544............+2,537
1......California.................3,492,045........+6,440............47,916...............+409
2......Texas......................2,583,822........+4,178............41,728.................+76
3......Florida.....................1,844,627........+7,342............29,311...............+158
4......New York.................1,597,308.......+6,293.............46,457...............+122
5......Illinois......................1,166,717.......+1,795.............22,224.................+25
6......Georgia.......................973,247.......+3,545.............16,273.................+99
7......Ohio............................945,107.......+1,816............16,513.................+63
8......Pennsylvania................907,736.......+3,530............23,418...............+190
9......North Carolina..............829,507.......+3,167............10,670...............+108
10....Arizona........................801,055.......+1,315.............15,063................+82

In the back of my mind is still the thought, this virus is coming for all of us and will kill us all. Not my prediction, mind you.
(02-17-2021, 12:12 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-17-2021, 11:46 AM)David Horn Wrote: [ -> ]Einzige is a Marxist, so anything other than the Soviet model is out of bounds for him.

Nitpick.  Einzige distinguishes between theoretical Marxism and Communism as it actually occurred.  Very different.  He has denounced the Soviet Model, but most people have rejected all violence, all boots on the ground.  I would replace 'the Soviet model' with 'the Marxist model'.

But other than that, I would agree.

I can go with that too.  Marx was amazing in his day; his day is past. That said, something of the like needs to be a prominent political option, since the rest of the advanced world is far to our left. We need to join them.
(02-15-2021, 05:50 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-22-2021, 12:02 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]New President... COVID-19 is still killing.

President Biden is doing much right that Trump did wrong, but COVID-19 is still contagious. Many who want to be vaccinated for it are still on the waiting list

Mask it or casket, folks.
Yep. Mask it or casket for you  dude. I wonder if there's a way to ship an illegal alien with COVID to your home or round you up and ship you to the areas they'll be  infecting these days. Right now, I think it's going to require a serious dose of death and life threatening experiences  among the Democrats to force them to become wiser and more productive and more  in tune with reality  at this point.

At this point, are you planning to take the vaccine? Right now, are you in tune with reality enough to mask up and socially distance, or are you still following Drump in that regard? Not that we are too involved in what you Republicans do about life these days.
(02-17-2021, 12:12 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-17-2021, 11:46 AM)David Horn Wrote: [ -> ]Einzige is a Marxist, so anything other than the Soviet model is out of bounds for him.

Nitpick.  Einzige distinguishes between theoretical Marxism and Communism as it actually occurred.  Very different.  He has denounced the Soviet Model, but most people have rejected all violence, all boots on the ground.  I would replace 'the Soviet model' with 'the Marxist model'.

But other than that, I would agree.

I reject the Soviet model precisely because it was not socialist, but capitalist.
(02-18-2021, 02:26 PM)David Horn Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-17-2021, 12:12 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-17-2021, 11:46 AM)David Horn Wrote: [ -> ]Einzige is a Marxist, so anything other than the Soviet model is out of bounds for him.

Nitpick.  Einzige distinguishes between theoretical Marxism and Communism as it actually occurred.  Very different.  He has denounced the Soviet Model, but most people have rejected all violence, all boots on the ground.  I would replace 'the Soviet model' with 'the Marxist model'.

But other than that, I would agree.

I can go with that too.  Marx was amazing in his day; his day is past. That said, something of the like needs to be a prominent political option, since the rest of the advanced world is far to our left. We need to join them.

They really aren't far to the left of the United States. The political spectrum is a fantasy.
(02-18-2021, 04:11 PM)Einzige Wrote: [ -> ]They really aren't far to the left of the United States. The political spectrum is a fantasy.

I see the notion of a century plus old system still being viable as more the fantasy. I could agree that the still alive modern systems are closer to each other than the notion that you have to change democratic cultures with violence. I could agree that violence might still be necessary if autocratic cultures do not listen to their people.

But for the US, the Marxist system is more obsolete than the political spectrum a fantasy. You measure the systems that are relevant.
(02-18-2021, 04:11 PM)Einzige Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-18-2021, 02:26 PM)David Horn Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-17-2021, 12:12 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-17-2021, 11:46 AM)David Horn Wrote: [ -> ]Einzige is a Marxist, so anything other than the Soviet model is out of bounds for him.

Nitpick.  Einzige distinguishes between theoretical Marxism and Communism as it actually occurred.  Very different.  He has denounced the Soviet Model, but most people have rejected all violence, all boots on the ground.  I would replace 'the Soviet model' with 'the Marxist model'.

But other than that, I would agree.

I can go with that too.  Marx was amazing in his day; his day is past. That said, something of the like needs to be a prominent political option, since the rest of the advanced world is far to our left. We need to join them.

They really aren't far to the left of the United States. The political spectrum is a fantasy.

Since you see the world as THIS and not-THIS, I'm sure that's true.
(02-18-2021, 04:43 PM)David Horn Wrote: [ -> ]Since you see the world as THIS and not-THIS, I'm sure that's true.

I have found that people who are really far into their favorite way of looking at the world often have very bad parodies of how their competition look at the world.  As a result, they often complain about perspectives which no one believes in.  Looking for advanced democratic cultures being changed by violence in the Industrial Age and you find almost nothing.  When you hear people like Engize  and Classic talking about imminent violence in the middle of a regeneracy where the non violent legislative paths look wide open indicates their perspectives are quite bad.

But their paths seem quite bad anyway.  No news there.
(02-18-2021, 04:54 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-18-2021, 04:43 PM)David Horn Wrote: [ -> ]Since you see the world as THIS and not-THIS, I'm sure that's true.

I have found that people who are really far into their favorite way of looking at the world often have very bad parodies of how their competition look at the world.  As a result, they often complain about perspectives which no one believes in.  Looking for advanced democratic cultures being changed by violence in the Industrial Age and you find almost nothing.  When you hear people like Engize  and Classic talking about imminent violence in the middle of a regeneracy where the non violent legislative paths look wide open indicates their perspectives are quite bad.

But their paths seem quite bad anyway.  No news there.

Einzige and Classic sharing a debate stage would be popcorn-worthy material.  Not much would be discussed, but the bloviating would be highly entertaining.
(02-18-2021, 04:42 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-18-2021, 04:11 PM)Einzige Wrote: [ -> ]They really aren't far to the left of the United States. The political spectrum is a fantasy.

I see the notion of a century plus old system still being viable as more the fantasy.  I could agree that the still alive modern systems are closer to each other than the notion that you have to change democratic cultures with violence.  I could agree that violence might still be necessary if autocratic cultures do not listen to their people.

But for the US, the Marxist system is more obsolete than the political spectrum a fantasy.  You measure the systems that are relevant.

What century plus old system?
(02-20-2021, 12:48 AM)Einzige Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-18-2021, 04:42 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-18-2021, 04:11 PM)Einzige Wrote: [ -> ]They really aren't far to the left of the United States. The political spectrum is a fantasy.

I see the notion of a century plus old system still being viable as more the fantasy.  I could agree that the still alive modern systems are closer to each other than the notion that you have to change democratic cultures with violence.  I could agree that violence might still be necessary if autocratic cultures do not listen to their people.

But for the US, the Marxist system is more obsolete than the political spectrum a fantasy.  You measure the systems that are relevant.

What century plus old system?

The Bolshevik Revolution took place nearly 105 years ago. Stalin's worst horrors happened about 90 years ago.
(02-20-2021, 02:07 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-20-2021, 12:48 AM)Einzige Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-18-2021, 04:42 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-18-2021, 04:11 PM)Einzige Wrote: [ -> ]They really aren't far to the left of the United States. The political spectrum is a fantasy.

I see the notion of a century plus old system still being viable as more the fantasy.  I could agree that the still alive modern systems are closer to each other than the notion that you have to change democratic cultures with violence.  I could agree that violence might still be necessary if autocratic cultures do not listen to their people.

But for the US, the Marxist system is more obsolete than the political spectrum a fantasy.  You measure the systems that are relevant.

What century plus old system?

The Bolshevik Revolution took place nearly 105 years ago. Stalin's worst horrors happened about 90 years ago.

The Communist Manifesto was written in 1848.
(02-20-2021, 04:21 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-20-2021, 02:07 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-20-2021, 12:48 AM)Einzige Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-18-2021, 04:42 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-18-2021, 04:11 PM)Einzige Wrote: [ -> ]They really aren't far to the left of the United States. The political spectrum is a fantasy.

I see the notion of a century plus old system still being viable as more the fantasy.  I could agree that the still alive modern systems are closer to each other than the notion that you have to change democratic cultures with violence.  I could agree that violence might still be necessary if autocratic cultures do not listen to their people.

But for the US, the Marxist system is more obsolete than the political spectrum a fantasy.  You measure the systems that are relevant.

What century plus old system?

The Bolshevik Revolution took place nearly 105 years ago. Stalin's worst horrors happened about 90 years ago.

The Communist Manifesto was written in 1848.

It's noteworthy that economic dogmas have a short shelf life.  What we call "the economy" has changed so much in the last 200 years that its hard to see much of the past being relevant today. Keynes was uniquely foresighted by being uniquely open about the economic model.  He focused on the human factors.  Marx, on the other hand, was totally immersed in his model, which is so out of date today it's hard to take it seriously anymore.
(02-20-2021, 09:52 AM)David Horn Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-20-2021, 04:21 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-20-2021, 02:07 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-20-2021, 12:48 AM)Einzige Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-18-2021, 04:42 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]I see the notion of a century plus old system still being viable as more the fantasy.  I could agree that the still alive modern systems are closer to each other than the notion that you have to change democratic cultures with violence.  I could agree that violence might still be necessary if autocratic cultures do not listen to their people.

But for the US, the Marxist system is more obsolete than the political spectrum a fantasy.  You measure the systems that are relevant.

What century plus old system?

The Bolshevik Revolution took place nearly 105 years ago. Stalin's worst horrors happened about 90 years ago.

The Communist Manifesto was written in 1848.

It's noteworthy that economic dogmas have a short shelf life.  What we call "the economy" has changed so much in the last 200 years that its hard to see much of the past being relevant today. Keynes was uniquely foresighted by being uniquely open about the economic model.  He focused on the human factors.  Marx, on the other hand, was totally immersed in his model, which is so out of date today it's hard to take it seriously anymore.

It's just as well. Economic dogmas adapt to technological change and social necessity or they die. But if they adapt they change, often into something that doesn't quite seem the same.

To consider Marx relevant one must add one epicycle after another. I read at one time that it was possible to have a earth-centered model of the universe to the extent of adding epicycles to accommodate relativity! It is simply far too complex to keep credibility.
(02-20-2021, 09:52 AM)David Horn Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-20-2021, 04:21 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-20-2021, 02:07 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-20-2021, 12:48 AM)Einzige Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-18-2021, 04:42 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]I see the notion of a century plus old system still being viable as more the fantasy.  I could agree that the still alive modern systems are closer to each other than the notion that you have to change democratic cultures with violence.  I could agree that violence might still be necessary if autocratic cultures do not listen to their people.

But for the US, the Marxist system is more obsolete than the political spectrum a fantasy.  You measure the systems that are relevant.

What century plus old system?

The Bolshevik Revolution took place nearly 105 years ago. Stalin's worst horrors happened about 90 years ago.

The Communist Manifesto was written in 1848.

It's noteworthy that economic dogmas have a short shelf life.  What we call "the economy" has changed so much in the last 200 years that its hard to see much of the past being relevant today. Keynes was uniquely foresighted by being uniquely open about the economic model.  He focused on the human factors.  Marx, on the other hand, was totally immersed in his model, which is so out of date today it's hard to take it seriously anymore.

But Keynes wasn’t right on everything either. Nearly a century ago he predicted that by this time most of us would be working 20 hours per week or less. Later futurists made similar predictions. And yet it seems that so many of us perhaps the majority are working more instead of less and have had to forgo gatherings with friends along with hobbies. One of the big lies of our times IMO. Wonder if we’ll ever see this more leisured society ever happen.
(02-20-2021, 11:14 PM)beechnut79 Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-20-2021, 09:52 AM)David Horn Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-20-2021, 04:21 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-20-2021, 02:07 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-20-2021, 12:48 AM)Einzige Wrote: [ -> ]What century plus old system?

The Bolshevik Revolution took place nearly 105 years ago. Stalin's worst horrors happened about 90 years ago.

The Communist Manifesto was written in 1848.

It's noteworthy that economic dogmas have a short shelf life.  What we call "the economy" has changed so much in the last 200 years that its hard to see much of the past being relevant today. Keynes was uniquely foresighted by being uniquely open about the economic model.  He focused on the human factors.  Marx, on the other hand, was totally immersed in his model, which is so out of date today it's hard to take it seriously anymore.

But Keynes wasn’t right on everything either. Nearly a century ago he predicted that by this time most of us would be working 20 hours per week or less. Later futurists made similar predictions. And yet it seems that so many of us perhaps the majority are working more instead of less and have had to forgo gatherings with friends along with hobbies. One of the big lies of our times IMO. Wonder if we’ll ever see this more leisured society ever happen.

That's what Marx talked about, lmao. Capitalism literally cannot reduce hours worked beyond a certain point because profit hinges on socially necessary labor time.
(02-20-2021, 11:14 PM)beechnut79 Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-20-2021, 09:52 AM)David Horn Wrote: [ -> ]It's noteworthy that economic dogmas have a short shelf life.  What we call "the economy" has changed so much in the last 200 years that its hard to see much of the past being relevant today. Keynes was uniquely foresighted by being fully open about the economic model.  He focused on the human factors.  Marx, on the other hand, was totally immersed in his model, which is so out of date today it's hard to take it seriously anymore.

But Keynes wasn’t right on everything either. Nearly a century ago he predicted that by this time most of us would be working 20 hours per week or less. Later futurists made similar predictions. And yet it seems that so many of us perhaps the majority are working more instead of less and have had to forgo gatherings with friends along with hobbies. One of the big lies of our times IMO. Wonder if we’ll ever see this more leisured society ever happen.

Keynes noted what should happen, but failed to appreciate the power of the ownership class to overwhelm the working class by getting them to believe they were unworthy. After all, Keynes was an economist, not a sociologist. Sadly, the veil remains in place. There are a few folks working to pick that lock. My money is on Heather McGhee -- first among the many.
(02-21-2021, 08:35 AM)David Horn Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-20-2021, 11:14 PM)beechnut79 Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-20-2021, 09:52 AM)David Horn Wrote: [ -> ]It's noteworthy that economic dogmas have a short shelf life.  What we call "the economy" has changed so much in the last 200 years that its hard to see much of the past being relevant today. Keynes was uniquely foresighted by being fully open about the economic model.  He focused on the human factors.  Marx, on the other hand, was totally immersed in his model, which is so out of date today it's hard to take it seriously anymore.

But Keynes wasn’t right on everything either. Nearly a century ago he predicted that by this time most of us would be working 20 hours per week or less. Later futurists made similar predictions. And yet it seems that so many of us perhaps the majority are working more instead of less and have had to forgo gatherings with friends along with hobbies. One of the big lies of our times IMO. Wonder if we’ll ever see this more leisured society ever happen.

Keynes noted what should happen, but failed to appreciate the power of the ownership class to overwhelm the working class by getting them to believe they were unworthy.  After all, Keynes was an economist, not a sociologist.  Sadly, the veil remains in place. There are a few folks working to pick that lock.  My money is on Heather McGhee -- first among the many.

Lol, Keynes hated the working class.