Generational Theory Forum: The Fourth Turning Forum: A message board discussing generations and the Strauss Howe generational theory

(08-12-2021, 11:20 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-12-2021, 12:31 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]Wrong; that insurrection bodes ill for the survival of American democracy. Elections have meaning, lest there be no democracy. Heck, Syria has elections. In essence, democracy depends upon people in power being willing to lose elections when they fail or go stale. That insurrection will be remembered much like 9/11 or Pearl Harbor Day. 

What part of "Donald Trump was a catastrophic failure as President" do you not understand? Donald Trump sought to nullify an election that he lost.  That, all too often, is how democracies become dictatorships. The other method is rigged elections. 

Donald Trump showed more dictatorial and despotic traits than any other President in American history. Under him formed a secret police responsible to nobody but himself to harass dissidents. What he did wrong in the Dictator's Playbook was to try to purge his political allies of backsliders before making the opposition irrelevant. Maybe he wouldn't have made that mistake the next time. Thank God, and 306 electoral votes that went to Joe Biden, that he had gotten no second chance. 

Donald Trump still has a nasty personality cult behind him. If it loses him, then it will find someone else -- maybe someone who knows enough to start assassinating opponents in elected office, media, academia, labor unions, etc.  

PB, the only people who would view Jan 6 as being an event equal to 9/11 or Pearl Harbor would be Libtards like yourself or someone as fucked up as a Libtard or someone as fucked in the head as a Libtard at this point. I must admit at times, you guys do remind me of Tokyo Rose and what she did for a living at the time. Anyhow, while you and the boys were here spreading propaganda, stroking each others egos, patting each other on the back  and telling each other how smart/great you are and how dumb we are and so forth. I've been busy working long hours and earning thousands of dollars and supporting an entire family. Like I said, America knows where it was at while Trump was in office and America will see where its at after 4 years with Gumby in office. Personally speaking, I think Washington DC is pretty much FUBAR at this point.

From my astrology point of view, though, unless it is proved that the Taliban organized its victorious alliance and somehow launched its current campaign in January 2021, the violent war or outbreak I long-ago predicted for early that month due to a stationary Mars in disharmonious aspect to Saturn a few weeks prior, was indeed the January 6th attack. That was the violent event that I predicted, and the signs for DC then were very clear. 

And it is quite clear too that 9-11 and Pearl Harbor both happened in the weeks following a very-similar stationary Mars, and in the case of 9-11 this stationary Mars also happened soon after a hard aspect to Saturn too. And in the case of Pearl Harbor, this stationary Mars was in the same sign, aggressive Aries, as it was in the weeks before and during the January 6th attack. So the signs say Jan 6 was indeed "an event equal to 9/11 or Pearl Harbor" and was perhaps the first outbreak or sign of a coming civil war. I even predicted it would be called such. So that's pretty big stuff. And you yourself have agreed with me on the possibility of this civil war, although we'd be on opposing sides of it. So really, I don't know what your complaint would be against this comparison.

Quoting you from a reply to me above, "any how, from one radical to another, the day the gloves come off, we'll get to see who was right and who was wrong and who ends up with the shitty end of the stick so to speak." So, on Jan.6 the gloves came off for the first time. So yeah, we'll see.

(08-12-2021, 08:17 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-11-2021, 10:20 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]I'd say a lot of people care that a bunch of racist Trump supporters tried to end democracy.  I find it hard to believe you really confuse BLM and Antifa for a bunch of racist Trump supporters.  For me, the question is how many red folk with kill themselves by Covid.  Originally, Trump thought that if he could keep the economy going, he would win.  Therefore, he put the economy ahead of saving lives.  I suspect that this turned off enough people that he lost.  Still, he has left his people believing one should not fight Covid.  This is at a time when the vaccines make fighting Covid possible and would allow the restrictions that hurt the economy to be dropped.  Still, by this time, not fighting Covid has become an Acireman thing.  They can't help themselves from killing each other.

The Big Lie is clearly a big lie say the courts.  The lawyers who supported the Big Lie are falling like flies.  Voting against popular bills isn't going to make the Reds more popular.  Even McConnell voted with the Democrats on the bipartisan infrastructure bill.  The Mississippi hospital system is among those collapsing while their governor went on a political junket.

And you still don't seem to have a clue...

It's pretty obvious that the blue tribers, the Democratic party and a relatively small group of establishment Republicans aka the GOP still seem to care about it but that's about it these days. As far as the outcome, the outcome has already been determined and Biden is the President of the United States, No one else cares about it and most have pretty moved with their lives and are more focused on relevant issues pertaining to their lives and their future as Americans.
   
I wouldn't be surprised if McConnell voted for Biden. McConnell is about all that's left of the GOP establishment. So, the idea of him going along with the Democratic establishment and prop up Biden a bit to save face doesn't surprise me either. So, how many years have McConnell and Biden been doing business while serving together in Washington DC? I'm pretty sure fortunes were made by both of them.

So, where did the recent Delta variant come from? Do you think the hundreds of thousands (possibly a million??) who have entered the country illegally or were allowed to enter it for some reason that may or may not be true could have anything to do with the current COVID related crisis? Was it just a coincidence or directly related to it?

Possibly US officials including Democrats like Cuomo and DeBlasio were a week or two too slow in closing the border to flights from Europe. Some objected to Trump's call for closing the border from Chinese, calling it xenophobia. In this way, the Democrats can be partly blamed for the spread of covid. But blaming immigrants from south of the border, when covid had not even arrived there yet, is just more reactionary Republican grandstanding like the horrible governor DeSantis is doing to deflect his own complicity in the worst covid surge in the country and even the world today. Republicans are most of the people now refusing to take the vaccine or wear masks, so the covid surge today is a direct Republican attack on our health, supported by Republican governors like DeSantis and Abbott. Meanwhile, Biden has continued the restrictions on immigration imposed by Trump in order to control covid.

McConnell actually stated during the Jan.6 hearings that he voted for Trump, as such a Republican stalwart and leader of stick-in-the mud campaigns surely would do.

(08-12-2021, 11:20 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-12-2021, 12:31 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]Wrong; that insurrection bodes ill for the survival of American democracy. Elections have meaning, lest there be no democracy. Heck, Syria has elections. In essence, democracy depends upon people in power being willing to lose elections when they fail or go stale. That insurrection will be remembered much like 9/11 or Pearl Harbor Day. 

What part of "Donald Trump was a catastrophic failure as President" do you not understand? Donald Trump sought to nullify an election that he lost.  That, all too often, is how democracies become dictatorships. The other method is rigged elections. 

Donald Trump showed more dictatorial and despotic traits than any other President in American history. Under him formed a secret police responsible to nobody but himself to harass dissidents. What he did wrong in the Dictator's Playbook was to try to purge his political allies of backsliders before making the opposition irrelevant. Maybe he wouldn't have made that mistake the next time. Thank God, and 306 electoral votes that went to Joe Biden, that he had gotten no second chance. 

Donald Trump still has a nasty personality cult behind him. If it loses him, then it will find someone else -- maybe someone who knows enough to start assassinating opponents in elected office, media, academia, labor unions, etc.  

PB, the only people who would view Jan 6 as being an event equal to 9/11 or Pearl Harbor would be Libtards  like yourself or someone [offensive language redacted] at this point.

I was thinking of its memory. Because of the meme "Remember Pearl Harbor" that floated freely long after World War II, I remembered it even if it happened fourteen years before I was born. I count on some 80-year  commemorations on December 7, 2021 because it will remain national trauma. The "Hate Japan" conclusion is of course long ignored. (If anything I love Japanese culture... the only thing that I would change is the writing system; then again something so unique, difficult,  and distinctive might keep Japan Japanese). 

For a short time I thought that nearly sixty years after the 9/11 attack I thought I saw an obvious parallel in the similarity of a consummately-offensive deed as a bolt from the blue, something likely to initiate an international war in which Americans respond much as they did to the Pearl Harbor attack. Well, no... Dubya was not FDR (which is an understatement) as a leader, and Americans went back to their normal 3T activities, including a speculative boom and mindless consumerism as before. Only one high-profile athlete, film star, or popular musician (Pat Tillman) put his life on hold to enter active military service. There were analogues because of some obvious similarities of the meme.

No American precedent applies to the January 6 insurrection, so one must contemplate something that happened elsewhere. The most obvious one that I could think of was something that had happened about 113 years earlier in Russia: the Bolshevik coup long remembered in the Soviet Union and elsewhere as the October Revolution. Bolsheviks stormed the Winter Palace in Petrograd and ousted the freely-elected parliament of the infant Russian Provisional Republic and established a ruthless, bloodthirsty dictatorship after the electoral results "failed" to go "their" way. To be sure there was by then nobody who remembered the Bolshevik Coup/October Revolution then living, but good reason exists for reading history even if it is at times an obscene tale written in the blood of innocent people on the parchment of human flesh. 

Donald Trump lost fair and square, and the event disrupted was something long considered a boring formality.  

Quote: 
I must admit at times, you guys do remind me of Tokyo Rose and what she did for a living at the time.

Iva Toguri d'Aquino was in a touchy situation; she lived in peril of torture and execution. She did what she did to survive after her misfortune of being in the land of her ancestors at the absolute worst time. If you want to call us traitors, then why not go all out and compare us to "Lord Haw-Haw" (an American-born British fascist who defected to Hitlerland and taunted Britain with defeatist rhetoric)... except that we are still her, and we endorse the Constitutional system that we have against all enemies foreign and domestic. Enemies domestic include those who showed contempt for American norms necessary for our Constitutional system to work by an attempt to disrupt the recognition of the loss by the incumbent President. 

Did you see the testimony of Capitol and other police at the House hearing? 

... Mercifully I have never seen cause to go overseas to make broadcasts against the clique ruling my country. I would do so against a murderous, despotic American regime. Heck, I would do so from Berlin or Tokyo, and all I would need do is tell the truth on behalf of old decencies in need of restoration.       

Quote: Anyhow, while you and the boys were here spreading propaganda, stroking each others egos, patting each other on the back  and telling each other how smart/great you are and how dumb we are and so forth. I've been busy working long hours and earning thousands of dollars and supporting an entire family. Like I said, America knows where it was at while Trump was in office and America will see where its  at after 4 years with Gumby in office. Personally speaking, I think Washington DC is pretty much FUBAR at this point.

We do not vote for perfection. At times we must simply vote for someone flawed over something horrible. 

Never let the Perfect be the enemy of the Good, but never let undeniable evil prevail. We all have our flaws as people. Donald Quisling Trump proved what he was on January 6 with the aid of people whose delusions and anger he stoked. That is the pattern of many dictatorships past and present.

I am satisfied that Donald Trump will be remembered for a very long time, if four unflattering reasons  that will stick. If Nero, Caligula, and Commodus are seen in a derogatory light nearly two millennia later in history books and cinema, then so can Donald Trump. "President of the United States" has about as much relevance in our time as did Imperator Romanus did in its time. Nero, Caligula, and Commodus are memorable... for all the wrong reasons. May I suggest that you watch the movie Quo Vadis?  It's about sixty years old, but it holds up well.

I suppose the difference is that the Biden administration is attempting to address the major problems facing the country today, while Trump supposed a lot of the problems.  Covid, racism, the environment, infrastructure, maybe they will get to the division of wealth, are problems that should be addressed.  If your Acirema prefers the problems, you deserve what is coming.

(08-13-2021, 11:56 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]I suppose the difference is that the Biden administration is attempting to address the major problems facing the country today, while Trump supposed a lot of the problems.  Covid, racism, the environment, infrastructure, maybe they will get to the division of wealth, are problems that should be addressed.  If your Acirema prefers the problems, you deserve what is coming.

President Biden is as Establishment as one gets. He's no master of grandstanding. Reality may mover faster than meets his taste. Heck, the fellow is near 80, and many of his contemporaries have died off of the usual causes relating heavily to old age. 

With Trump, the risk was of irresistible force meeting an immovable object, and that implies destruction of the immovable object. Trump had no clue on COVID-19 and still had it very wrong. As President he would still have it wrong, going along with the people who have it most wrong. He is a racist; he is a religious bigot devoid of any religious learning; he sees himself as the measure of all things. Environment? "Burn (fossil fuel), baby, burn!" describes him well. Economic inequality? For him, the more the merrier for his closest associates... and for the rest, it's pie-in-the-sky-if-you-die... and if you insist on even basic sustenance in the here and now on terms other than abject subjection you can die horribly now and be denied any pie-in-the-sky. 

Classic X'er plays with historical forces and scientific realities far beyond his comprehension. He has yet to realize that Donald Trump is a sociopath who can do not good for any but himself and his associates and only harm to the common man. His Acerima is a sure failure.

"Acerima" I don't know what that is.

'Acirema' would just be America spelled backwards.  Since Classic uses America, I needed to find a way to clearly talk about his imaginary following.  The reds have problems with aligning with the elites and the racists, but those aren't Classic's hang ups, so I am not sure how else to refer to his delusions?  They are distinct enough from the red that I have to answer the two separately.

My suspicion: Classic X'er has some problem with the ambiguity of his social class, as his work pays well but is still blue-collar. Many blue-collar workers with high pay are unionized employees and recognize that their stake in the consumer society requires membership in a trade union as a gate-keeper for the most competent of blue-collar workers. But he is an entrepreneur, so he does not need a union. He assumes that well-off white-collar workers and of course entrepreneurs are political reactionaries (which is not so reliable as it used to be; common wisdom on demographics is often obsolete).

He would like to believe that he is middle-class, but he is really upper-working-class (skilled labor). If income is not a distinction between the middle class and skilled workers, then culture is. With culture comes spending patterns, and such may be the difference between a motorcycle and a sailboat or between an RV and foreign travel. It could be the difference between hearing the Vienna Philharmonic live and being a high-roller in "Vegas".

Class identity is never a source of virtue. European aristocrats were often the earliest backers of fascism; big landowners of the eastern part of Weimar Germany were among the first to support Hitler in efforts to suppress farm laborers; then came aristocrats who found him amenable to destroying trade unions. A disproportionate share of Vichy collaborators were aristocrats. The most vicious antisemites in Hungary were the rural magnates; many of the worst of the Nazi-like Arrow Cross (whose short period of rule in Hungary coincided with the Holocaust in Hungary) were titled nobility. 

Class identity may be the distinction between dignity and degradation, especially in a plutocratic order... and as we have found in the neoliberal era, the greater that class identity determines who kicks whom, the nastier that system becomes. It is generally safest that the class system be one of culture, education, and talent than of either ownership of assets or the wielding of bureaucratic power -- especially if one uses economic or bureaucratic power to abuse "lessers".

(08-14-2021, 02:40 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]'Acirema' would just be America spelled backwards.  Since Classic uses America, I needed to find a way to clearly talk about his imaginary following.  The reds have problems with aligning with the elites and the racists, but those aren't Classic's hang ups, so I am not sure how else to refer to his delusions?  They are distinct enough from the red that I have to answer the two separately.

Thanks for clarifying. Myself, I don't notice that the reds have much difficulty aligning with the elites and the racists. It seems in fact like they are their two biggest priorities. I can't believe they don't know who they are voting for. Classic Xer for example is a huge fan of trickle-down economics. He knows that he supports the right of the big elite businessmen to be free of government regulation and taxes-- which are the way we liberals keep these elites in bounds-- and he thinks that this trickle-down, anti-welfare policy will help him in his business as a boss also.

(08-14-2021, 03:43 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-14-2021, 02:40 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]'Acirema' would just be America spelled backwards.  Since Classic uses America, I needed to find a way to clearly talk about his imaginary following.  The reds have problems with aligning with the elites and the racists, but those aren't Classic's hang ups, so I am not sure how else to refer to his delusions?  They are distinct enough from the red that I have to answer the two separately.

Thanks for clarifying. Myself, I don't notice that the reds have much difficulty aligning with the elites and the racists. It seems in fact like they are their two biggest priorities. I can't believe they don't know who they are voting for. Classic Xer for example is a huge fan of trickle-down economics. He knows that he supports the right of the big elite businessmen to be free of government regulation and taxes-- which are the way we liberals keep these elites in bounds-- and he thinks that this trickle-down, anti-welfare policy will help him in his business as a boss also.

The irony is that trickle-down economics might even be bad for his business. Air conditioning is still a luxury in the Twin Cities area as it isn't even so close as Kansas City or St. Louis... maybe even Des Moines. The neoliberal belief in free enterprise in the sense of enterprise having the ability to do whatever it wishes to the Common Man is consistent with freedom for elites and tyranny for the rest. Such is nothing good, and it has been done often. It has never worked well for the Common Man.  It has ensured, though, that some impressive castles and palaces be built!

(08-13-2021, 09:11 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-12-2021, 11:20 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-12-2021, 12:31 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]Wrong; that insurrection bodes ill for the survival of American democracy. Elections have meaning, lest there be no democracy. Heck, Syria has elections. In essence, democracy depends upon people in power being willing to lose elections when they fail or go stale. That insurrection will be remembered much like 9/11 or Pearl Harbor Day. 

What part of "Donald Trump was a catastrophic failure as President" do you not understand? Donald Trump sought to nullify an election that he lost.  That, all too often, is how democracies become dictatorships. The other method is rigged elections. 

Donald Trump showed more dictatorial and despotic traits than any other President in American history. Under him formed a secret police responsible to nobody but himself to harass dissidents. What he did wrong in the Dictator's Playbook was to try to purge his political allies of backsliders before making the opposition irrelevant. Maybe he wouldn't have made that mistake the next time. Thank God, and 306 electoral votes that went to Joe Biden, that he had gotten no second chance. 

Donald Trump still has a nasty personality cult behind him. If it loses him, then it will find someone else -- maybe someone who knows enough to start assassinating opponents in elected office, media, academia, labor unions, etc.  

PB, the only people who would view Jan 6 as being an event equal to 9/11 or Pearl Harbor would be Libtards like yourself or someone as fucked up as a Libtard or someone as fucked in the head as a Libtard at this point. I must admit at times, you guys do remind me of Tokyo Rose and what she did for a living at the time. Anyhow, while you and the boys were here spreading propaganda, stroking each others egos, patting each other on the back  and telling each other how smart/great you are and how dumb we are and so forth. I've been busy working long hours and earning thousands of dollars and supporting an entire family. Like I said, America knows where it was at while Trump was in office and America will see where its at after 4 years with Gumby in office. Personally speaking, I think Washington DC is pretty much FUBAR at this point.

From my astrology point of view, though, unless it is proved that the Taliban organized its victorious alliance and somehow launched its current campaign in January 2021, the violent war or outbreak I long-ago predicted for early that month due to a stationary Mars in disharmonious aspect to Saturn a few weeks prior, was indeed the January 6th attack. That was the violent event that I predicted, and the signs for DC then were very clear. 

And it is quite clear too that 9-11 and Pearl Harbor both happened in the weeks following a very-similar stationary Mars, and in the case of 9-11 this stationary Mars also happened soon after a hard aspect to Saturn too. And in the case of Pearl Harbor, this stationary Mars was in the same sign, aggressive Aries, as it was in the weeks before and during the January 6th attack. So the signs say Jan 6 was indeed "an event equal to 9/11 or Pearl Harbor" and was perhaps the first outbreak or sign of a coming civil war. I even predicted it would be called such. So that's pretty big stuff. And you yourself have agreed with me on the possibility of this civil war, although we'd be on opposing sides of it. So really, I don't know what your complaint would be against this comparison.

Quoting you from a reply to me above, "any how, from one radical to another, the day the gloves come off, we'll get to see who was right and who was wrong and who ends up with the shitty end of the stick so to speak." So, on Jan.6 the gloves came off for the first time. So yeah, we'll see.

Jan 6th was more likely a prelude of what's to come but the event itself was relatively small and trivial compared to 9/11 and Pearl Harbor. The gloves weren't off. You will know when the gloves come off.

(08-15-2021, 03:56 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-14-2021, 03:43 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-14-2021, 02:40 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]'Acirema' would just be America spelled backwards.  Since Classic uses America, I needed to find a way to clearly talk about his imaginary following.  The reds have problems with aligning with the elites and the racists, but those aren't Classic's hang ups, so I am not sure how else to refer to his delusions?  They are distinct enough from the red that I have to answer the two separately.

Thanks for clarifying. Myself, I don't notice that the reds have much difficulty aligning with the elites and the racists. It seems in fact like they are their two biggest priorities. I can't believe they don't know who they are voting for. Classic Xer for example is a huge fan of trickle-down economics. He knows that he supports the right of the big elite businessmen to be free of government regulation and taxes-- which are the way we liberals keep these elites in bounds-- and he thinks that this trickle-down, anti-welfare policy will help him in his business as a boss also.

The irony is that trickle-down economics might even be bad for his business. Air conditioning is still a luxury in the Twin Cities area as it isn't even so close as Kansas City or St. Louis... maybe even Des Moines. The neoliberal belief in free enterprise in the sense of enterprise having the ability to do whatever it wishes to the Common Man is consistent with freedom for elites and tyranny for the rest. Such is nothing good, and it has been done often. It has never worked well for the Common Man.  It has ensured, though, that some impressive castles and palaces be built!

Air conditioning is actually more common and more essential today.

(08-14-2021, 09:50 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]My suspicion: Classic X'er has some problem with the ambiguity of his social class, as his work pays well but is still blue-collar. Many blue-collar workers with high pay are unionized employees and recognize that their stake in the consumer society requires membership in a trade union as a gate-keeper for the most competent of blue-collar workers. But he is an entrepreneur, so he does not need a union. He assumes that well-off white-collar workers and of course entrepreneurs are political reactionaries (which is not so reliable as it used to be; common wisdom on demographics is often obsolete).

He would like to believe that he is middle-class, but he is really upper-working-class (skilled labor). If income is not a distinction between the middle class and skilled workers, then culture is. With culture comes spending patterns, and such may be the difference between a motorcycle and a sailboat or between an RV and foreign travel. It could be the difference between hearing the Vienna Philharmonic live and being a high-roller in "Vegas".

Class identity is never a source of virtue. European aristocrats were often the earliest backers of fascism; big landowners of the eastern part of Weimar Germany were among the first to support Hitler in efforts to suppress farm laborers; then came aristocrats who found him amenable to destroying trade unions. A disproportionate share of Vichy collaborators were aristocrats. The most vicious antisemites in Hungary were the rural magnates; many of the worst of the Nazi-like Arrow Cross (whose short period of rule in Hungary coincided with the Holocaust in Hungary) were titled nobility. 

Class identity may be the distinction between dignity and degradation, especially in a plutocratic order... and as we have found in the neoliberal era, the greater that class identity determines who kicks whom, the nastier that system becomes. It is generally safest that the class system be one of culture, education, and talent than of either ownership of assets or the wielding of bureaucratic power -- especially if one uses economic or bureaucratic power to abuse "lessers".

I'm upper middle class but I'm directly associated with the middle class. Basically, I'm an upper middle class who wasn't born with a silver spoon so to speak. You'll see the difference between us and the pesky silver spoons on the Democratic side.

(08-14-2021, 02:40 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]'Acirema' would just be America spelled backwards.  Since Classic uses America, I needed to find a way to clearly talk about his imaginary following.  The reds have problems with aligning with the elites and the racists, but those aren't Classic's hang ups, so I am not sure how else to refer to his delusions?  They are distinct enough from the red that I have to answer the two separately.

I assume that you haven't figured out that America doesn't follow. OK, now that America more or less has "Acirema" where it wants it, positioned out on a limb of a dying tree like it is and all of you are today. Let see, America can decide to wiggle or shake the limb or say fuck it and prune it or bull doze the tree so to speak. I already told you how this is going to end. It's going to end with a group of Democratic Libtard's looking around at themselves without a country left to loot/skim or govern. Like I said, I do believe the American side could let go of/break with Democratic controlled DC, regroup, ratify the American Constitution and reestablish itself as the American nation rather easily these days and leave Washington DC and the Democratic states to their own devices and watch as they quickly deteriorate and implode.

(08-14-2021, 02:40 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]'Acirema' would just be America spelled backwards.  Since Classic uses America, I needed to find a way to clearly talk about his imaginary following.  The reds have problems with aligning with the elites and the racists, but those aren't Classic's hang ups, so I am not sure how else to refer to his delusions?  They are distinct enough from the red that I have to answer the two separately.

How many elites and racist or Marxist groups does the Democratic party have you aligned with today? Think about it. I know that's tough for an older man in your condition to do but you really should try to think about it before it's to late and you find yourself at war with most of America.

(08-15-2021, 10:01 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-14-2021, 09:50 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]My suspicion: Classic X'er has some problem with the ambiguity of his social class, as his work pays well but is still blue-collar. Many blue-collar workers with high pay are unionized employees and recognize that their stake in the consumer society requires membership in a trade union as a gate-keeper for the most competent of blue-collar workers. But he is an entrepreneur, so he does not need a union. He assumes that well-off white-collar workers and of course entrepreneurs are political reactionaries (which is not so reliable as it used to be; common wisdom on demographics is often obsolete).

He would like to believe that he is middle-class, but he is really upper-working-class (skilled labor). If income is not a distinction between the middle class and skilled workers, then culture is. With culture comes spending patterns, and such may be the difference between a motorcycle and a sailboat or between an RV and foreign travel. It could be the difference between hearing the Vienna Philharmonic live and being a high-roller in "Vegas".

Class identity is never a source of virtue. European aristocrats were often the earliest backers of fascism; big landowners of the eastern part of Weimar Germany were among the first to support Hitler in efforts to suppress farm laborers; then came aristocrats who found him amenable to destroying trade unions. A disproportionate share of Vichy collaborators were aristocrats. The most vicious antisemites in Hungary were the rural magnates; many of the worst of the Nazi-like Arrow Cross (whose short period of rule in Hungary coincided with the Holocaust in Hungary) were titled nobility. 

Class identity may be the distinction between dignity and degradation, especially in a plutocratic order... and as we have found in the neoliberal era, the greater that class identity determines who kicks whom, the nastier that system becomes. It is generally safest that the class system be one of culture, education, and talent than of either ownership of assets or the wielding of bureaucratic power -- especially if one uses economic or bureaucratic power to abuse "lessers".

I'm upper middle class but I'm directly associated with the middle class. Basically, I'm an upper middle class who wasn't born with a silver spoon so to speak. You'll see the difference between us and the pesky silver spoons on the Democratic side.

The social critic Paul Fussell would have put you neatly in the "high prole" category because you lack the "right"  professional degree (typically law, medicine, or architecture) and you occasionally do real skilled work. You are not a pure white-collar worker, and in view of your limited education, if you did pure white-collar work you would likely have one of those jobs in which you dress like an executive yet starve... or you clerk in a convenience store. Skilled workers can have above-average incomes, but they generally do so many faux pas when they get to see the real middle classes in a social setting they show themselves too boorish to fit in.

(08-15-2021, 11:06 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]How many elites and racist or Marxist groups does the Democratic party have you aligned with today? Think about it. I know that's tough for an older man in your condition to do but you really should try to think about it before it's to late and you find yourself at war with most of America.

None.  The red republicans have elitist and racist concerns, though these are not your concerns.  It is the elitists that have pursued sending jobs abroad where a lack of concern for decent wages, benefits and the environment give them superior chance to profit.  It is the racists who were involved in the January 6th insurrection.  Now these are not your primary concern.  You seem to think that the red are for the working man and small government is not a code word for hurting minorities.

But the Constitution favors a government that supports the general welfare.  That translates to spending money on the people.  

Ideally, socialists would do that.  In practice, communists are far more concerned with power than improving life for the common man.  There is no true Marxism.  As I have said to Einzige often enough, Communists tend to replace one elitist class with the Party as a new elitist class.  Communist concerns are not with the general population, not with the general welfare.  Marxism remains an empty threat so long as that problem remains unsolved and nobody trusts revolutions.

But it is the racists who use violence against the government, who wage war against the people.  They currently just want a racist president more than they want democracy.

As I see it, the Democrats are pushing popular desires for the general welfare.  McConnell’s establishment reds note that recently the winners of the presidential election lose ground in the mid terms, especially if they do not fulfill their promises.  He is thus preventing the Democrats from fulfilling their popular promises.  We will see if opposing positive things will win him support.

And meanwhile the racist organizations are quietly plotting violence in support of racism.  At least while they are plotting against the government they are too busy to bother the minorities.  They are winning no friends in government.

None of this has much to anything to do with your delusions of Acirema.  You see a non racist Republican faction which does not favor the elites over the common man.  I just do not see any such faction.

(08-15-2021, 10:30 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-14-2021, 02:40 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]'Acirema' would just be America spelled backwards.  Since Classic uses America, I needed to find a way to clearly talk about his imaginary following.  The reds have problems with aligning with the elites and the racists, but those aren't Classic's hang ups, so I am not sure how else to refer to his delusions?  They are distinct enough from the red that I have to answer the two separately.

I assume that you haven't figured out that America doesn't follow. OK, now that America more or less has "Acirema" where it wants it, positioned out on a limb of a dying tree like it is and all of you are today. Let see, America can decide to wiggle or shake the limb or say (expletive deleted) it and prune it or bull doze the tree so to speak. I already told you how this is going to end. It's going to end with a group of Democratic Libtard's looking around at themselves  without a country left to loot/skim or govern. Like I said, I do believe the American side could let go of/break with Democratic controlled DC, regroup, ratify the American Constitution and reestablish itself as the American nation rather easily these days and leave Washington DC and the Democratic states to their own devices and watch as they quickly deteriorate and implode.

The idea that "America" refers to only a narrow  selection of the public and that people outside that narrow group as defined by ethnicity, religion, region, or ideology is suspect in the extreme. "America" includes people whom one has every cause to despise, including criminals. The fault with the insurrectionists of January 6is not that they are un-American, as they are American because one cannot generally define them as something else; it is instead that they acted contrary to the Constitution in attempting to force electoral results contrary to those that we saw happening and are proper in view of the Constitution. We have laws to determine who wins even if those laws distort the electoral results to fit the Electoral College which compels a result consistent with a federal structure, as in 2000 and 2016. 

"America" as much fits this district  (Minnesota 5)

Quote:The district is strongly Democratic with a Cook Partisan Voting Index (CPVI) of D+26—by far the most Democratic district in the state.[5] The 5th is also the most Democratic district in the Upper Midwest. The Minnesota Democratic–Farmer–Labor Party (DFL) has held the seat without interruption since 1963, and the Republicans have not tallied more than 40 percent of the vote in almost half a century.

The district is represented by Ilhan Omar who was born in Somalia, a country in Africa. She is the first Somali American to ever serve in the U.S. House of Representatives, and the first woman of color to represent Minnesota in that chamber. Omar, also an American Muslim, succeeded Keith Ellison, the first American Muslim to serve in Congress after he was elected Minnesota Attorney General.

 
as it does this one (Minnesota-7) 

Quote:Minnesota's 7th congressional district covers the majority of western Minnesota except for a few southern counties in 1st district. It is by far the state's largest district, and has a very rural character. Cities in the district include Moorhead (its largest city), Fergus Falls, Alexandria and Willmar. The district is currently represented by Republican Michelle Fischbach.

It is R+17 by the Cook PVI. Minnesota does not have one of the strongest-R districts in America, and I could have picked some other state. It is obvious that Michelle Fischbach and Ilhan Omar would have no chance of winning the district of the other.
I could pick my own state (Michigan) for some sharper contrast, or for a really-sharp contrast, 

Quote:Georgia's 14th congressional district was created following the 2010 Census, when Georgia gained a 14th seat in the U.S. House of Representatives. The district is represented by Republican Marjorie Taylor Greene.

Demographics: 

Quote:Population (2019)
732,133[2]
Median household
income
$56,150[2]
Ethnicity

• 77.5% White
  
• 10.8% Hispanic
  
• 8.9% Black
  
• 1.4% Two or more races
  
• 1.0% Asian
  
• 0.4% other
  

Occupation

• 56.58% Blue-collar
  
• 43.42% White-collar
  

Cook PVI
R+28[3]

[/url]

Her district is R+28, which indicates that her district can elect an extremist. Her district went 73-25 for Donald Trump. Yes, I consider Donald Trump an abrasive extremist, but she is even more so. and he got elected in 2016 nationwide. So is Marjorie Taylor-Greene, who can win in this district and draws much attention for baiting liberals and Democrats.  Her district is cut so that it excludes practically the entire Atlanta metro area. She has more to concern herself from a primary challenger than from a Democratic nominee in the general election. 
In contrast:

Quote:Based in central Fulton and parts of DeKalb and Clayton counties, the majority black district includes almost three-fourths of Atlanta, the state capital and largest city. It also includes some of the surrounding suburbs, including East Point, Druid Hills, and Forest Park.[6] With a Cook Partisan Voting Index rating of D+36, it is the most Democratic district in Georgia.

It elected a close associate of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., John Lewis, reliably until he passed away. 

Demographics:
 

Quote:Nikema Williams
D–Atlanta
Distribution

• 99.97% urban[1]
  
• 0.03% rural
  

Population (2019)
788,996[2]
Median household
income
$60,247[3]
Ethnicity

• 58.5% Black
  
• 28.3% White
  
• 6.5% Hispanic
  
• 4.2% Asian
  
• 1.9% Two or more races
  
• 0.5% other
  

Cook PVI
D+36[4]

[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia%27s_5th_congressional_district#cite_note-Cook-4]
This district went 86-13 for Joe Biden. Nikema Williams is new to Congress and so far seems to set a low profile unlike her predecessor. She is also relatively new to Congress
Georgia-5 and Georgia-14 are just as much part of America, and they could hardly be more different in ideology even though they are a short drive away from each other.  If you drive I-75 through Atlanta going to or from Florida, then you pass through both districts. No sign will indicate such.

(08-16-2021, 07:02 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-15-2021, 11:06 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]How many elites and racist or Marxist groups does the Democratic party have you aligned with today? Think about it. I know that's tough for an older man in your condition to do but you really should try to think about it before it's to late and you find yourself at war with most of America.

None.  The red republicans have elitist and racist concerns, though these are not your concerns.  It is the elitists that have pursued sending jobs abroad where a lack of concern for decent wages, benefits and the environment give them superior chance to profit.  It is the racists who were involved in the January 6th insurrection.  Now these are not your primary concern.  You seem to think that the red are for the working man and small government is not a code word for hurting minorities.

But the Constitution favors a government that supports the general welfare.  That translates to spending money on the people.  

Ideally, socialists would do that.  In practice, communists are far more concerned with power than improving life for the common man.  There is no true Marxism.  As I have said to Einzige often enough, Communists tend to replace one elitist class with the Party as a new elitist class.  Communist concerns are not with the general population, not with the general welfare.  Marxism remains an empty threat so long as that problem remains unsolved and nobody trusts revolutions.

But it is the racists who use violence against the government, who wage war against the people.  They currently just want a racist president more than they want democracy.

As I see it, the Democrats are pushing popular desires for the general welfare.  McConnell’s establishment reds note that recently the winners of the presidential election lose ground in the mid terms, especially if they do not fulfill their promises.  He is thus preventing the Democrats from fulfilling their popular promises.  We will see if opposing positive things will win him support.

And meanwhile the racist organizations are quietly plotting violence in support of racism.  At least while they are plotting against the government they are too busy to bother the minorities.  They are winning no friends in government.

None of this has much to anything to do with your delusions of Acirema.  You see a non racist Republican faction which does not favor the elites over the common man.  I just do not see any such faction.

None??? Are you sure about that??? We sure see a lot of them working with/being supported by the Democrats these days. Do you like talking to me out your ass or something? Is talking out of your ass normal? You spend a lot of time talking out your ass dude. The only so called reds aka Rhino's who are in cahoots with the elites, racist and Marxist groups are the ones clinging to Biden these days and the ones still going along with the Democrats use of Facebook and Twitter and other corporations to control the narrative and helping advance by doing little to nothing about the anti American Marxist agenda.

We are most likely going to be killing you by the thousands and watching as thousands more of you are killing each other over the leftovers/ scraps associated with a bygone era during the upcoming years. You speak some truth. The problem is that you don't seem to realize or see truth that you speak as it directly relates to the Democratic party, the remainder of the GOP establishment and yourself these days. I don't think you are able to conceive/realize/ accept the reality that America itself has the power and the authority to let go and destroy all of you at the same time. You don't see any such faction because you are not allowed to see it or you don't want to see because it would represent the end of all the shit that you and the other are directly associated with these days. So, whatever happened to Tokyo Rose? Do you think America cared she was a woman or a birth person as Progressives say these days? Personally speaking, I don't care if the Progressives reduce you to an it. I mean, who cares about an it and who cares what happens to an it right? I mean an it is an unloved somebody that no one cares about anyway. Do you know that you and the others are being systematically reduced to a bunch of its? Probably not, it's probably outside your range of knowledge and comprehension at this point.

(08-15-2021, 03:56 AM))pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-14-2021, 03:43 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-14-2021, 02:40 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]'Acirema' would just be America spelled backwards.  Since Classic uses America, I needed to find a way to clearly talk about his imaginary following.  The reds have problems with aligning with the elites and the racists, but those aren't Classic's hang ups, so I am not sure how else to refer to his delusions?  They are distinct enough from the red that I have to answer the two separately.

Thanks for clarifying. Myself, I don't notice that the reds have much difficulty aligning with the elites and the racists. It seems in fact like they are their two biggest priorities. I can't believe they don't know who they are voting for. Classic Xer for example is a huge fan of trickle-down economics. He knows that he supports the right of the big elite businessmen to be free of government regulation and taxes-- which are the way we liberals keep these elites in bounds-- and he thinks that this trickle-down, anti-welfare policy will help him in his business as a boss also.

The irony is that trickle-down economics might even be bad for his business. Air conditioning is still a luxury in the Twin Cities area as it isn't even so close as Kansas City or St. Louis... maybe even Des Moines. The neoliberal belief in free enterprise in the sense of enterprise having the ability to do whatever it wishes to the Common Man is consistent with freedom for elites and tyranny for the rest. Such is nothing good, and it has been done often. It has never worked well for the Common Man.  It has ensured, though, that some impressive castles and palaces be built!

The irony is that all of my customers (all of their wealth) are directly related to trickle down economics these days. I've told you all many times that I don't make money doing work for poor people like you. It doesn't matter whether they work for the government or work in the private sector or work for an organization tied to government funding or private organizations tied to private funding these days. They're all related and tied to trickle down economics. One can be dumb/naive and ignore/miss that fact/reality like little poor old you, financially opportunistic Eric looking for quick ways to make a buck off those who are of similar mind or hold similar beliefs as him and the other clueless Libtards rolling with their emotions instead of listening and thinking for themselves these days.