Generational Theory Forum: The Fourth Turning Forum: A message board discussing generations and the Strauss Howe generational theory

(06-15-2020, 04:39 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-15-2020, 04:21 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-15-2020, 03:35 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-15-2020, 03:23 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]I prefer to see the ENTIRE tape and be presented all that facts before I way in on the situation with George Floyd.

Gee.  I thought you were fact free.  You just did your worldview scattered with violent daydreams, not deal in facts.  But that tape has been on record and widely interpreted for several weeks now.  Judging from the response, the people are not waiting for you to interpret the facts and form your opinion.  That is no way to get anywhere.

I dunno, the stuff that I watched your folks do in Minneapolis and St Paul and other blue cities looked pretty violent. I think we may have to pass a bunch of laws that makes it legal to shoot your folks on sight and agree to pay more taxes to beef up our police forces. I mean, if we can't rely on liberals or Democrats to control their on shit then we are going have to adjust by doing the opposite. We may even have to establish borders and form mew states.

Sure.  Exaggerating violence is much better than justice or equality.  

Turning a blind eye to looting, burning buildings, the destruction of all kinds of property, the killing and injuring of police and residents else where who had nothing to do with George Floyd's death is pretty dumb of you myself. If you think I'm exaggerating then you must be deaf, dumb and blind or you weren't paying any attention and ignoring the entire thing as it was all going on and we were watching it live on TV.

(06-16-2020, 02:38 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]I'm telling that blue violence will be met with red violence and it's not going to be pretty. It would be interesting see the position that you take with me then. You better be careful what you say because we will be arch  enemy's at that point.

Not that I take your obsession with violence and making idle threats seriously. Do you daydream of not being a chicken?

(06-16-2020, 02:38 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-15-2020, 04:39 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-15-2020, 04:21 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-15-2020, 03:35 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-15-2020, 03:23 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]I prefer to see the ENTIRE tape and be presented all that facts before I way in on the situation with George Floyd.

Gee.  I thought you were fact free.  You just did your worldview scattered with violent daydreams, not deal in facts.  But that tape has been on record and widely interpreted for several weeks now.  Judging from the response, the people are not waiting for you to interpret the facts and form your opinion.  That is no way to get anywhere.

I dunno, the stuff that I watched your folks do in Minneapolis and St Paul and other blue cities looked pretty violent. I think we may have to pass a bunch of laws that makes it legal to shoot your folks on sight and agree to pay more taxes to beef up our police forces. I mean, if we can't rely on liberals or Democrats to control their on shit then we are going have to adjust by doing the opposite. We may even have to establish borders and form mew states.

Sure.  Exaggerating violence is much better than justice or equality.  

Turning a blind eye to looting, burning buildings, the destruction of all kinds of property, the killing of police and residents else where  who had nothing to do with George Floyd's death for political gain is despicable. If you think I'm exaggerating then you must be deaf and blind or you weren't paying attention or you were ignoring the entire thing or you are a piece of crap partisan liberal that America would better off without so to speak. So, how many American bridges do you think it's wise for liberals to burn these days.  Now, if you want to jump on bandwagons and cater to thugs and criminals like you and your Democrats  are doing now and pay homage to a man and make him out as saint despite his long history of violence and  other wrong doings. Once again, the complete lack of judgement among liberals is revealed once again. I'm telling that blue violence will be met with red violence and it's not going to be pretty. It would be interesting see the position that you take with me then. You better be careful what you say because we will be arch  enemy's at that point.

You continue to exaggerate the blue violence, when it's mostly over, and you continue not to disapprove of and to excuse the treatment of George Floyd. There have been a few murdered police these days, mostly by people angry at the police, but blue governments continue to prosecute these murders. You continue to deny that you are a racist, when it is mostly blacks whom you accuse of violence, and whites whom you excuse for rampant police brutality against blacks. And the "America" that you defend and believe in is manifestly a white America, and it's an "America" that does not include all of America (North and South America).

I suspect it will be the red side that will initiate the violence, once a blue government takes over again. At that point, it will be your violence that will be met with the violence of the state, and it may not be pretty. It's up to you guys.

(06-16-2020, 02:38 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]Turning a blind eye to looting, burning buildings, the destruction of all kinds of property, the killing and injuring of police and residents else where who had nothing to do with George Floyd's death is pretty dumb of you myself. If you think I'm exaggerating then you must be deaf, dumb and blind or you weren't paying any attention and ignoring the entire thing as it was all going on and we were watching it live on TV.

And I'm sure you can know why and by whom all that happened. I'm sure there was no provocation -- ever.

FWIW, I watched the police start a riot, by blocking peaceful protestors into a box, and firing pepper balls at them. Up to that point, nothing had occurred. They got the reaction they wanted, and came down hard. Did that happen everywhere? I doubt it, but I only know for certain what I saw with my own eyes. The police erred by blocking in a news crew with the protestors, and it was all documented on video.

(06-15-2020, 09:43 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]The movement is not from the new values to the old.  The Republican alliance is between the racists, the elites, and those small government hedonists who expect to stay in the unravelling state forever.  If you step back to Bush 43’s war, there was the Neo Con idea of using force to institute neocolonialism, which got stepped on by insurrection and led to a conclusion that putting boots on the ground was a bad idea.

It looks like the crisis heart issues we are seeing right now are going to diminish or destroy the conservative thinking entirely, as usual in the last several crises.  The usual high dislike of the old values ought to finish the job.  Classic is sort of in denial.

But I sympathize with one culture’s opinion of what is important to another culture is often pretty simplistic.  It is not surprising that another culture will be in another place, and concerned with different issues.

As long as we have liberal Democrats who are reliant upon racism and need to use racism as a political tool  or a political crutch, we'll  always have racism that exists. I mean, wasn't it Biden who told a black person that they weren't black if they wouldn't support him. So, with that said, we don't have a problem with all blacks. We have a problem with your blacks and other minorities so to speak and a problem with the whites as well. I'm sorry but we can't help idiots who believe everything that comes out of mouth of Leftists or is preached by those on CNN or MSNBC. I don't know if you'll live to experience the results/outcome like AOC and her gang. So, you think we're reaching the head of the crisis that we've  been experiencing right now. Hmmm....I don't view it that way at all. I think we've got a ways to go before we reach the head and settle things. We've just seen the crash 0f 1929 a few months ago. I believe we be 4T and the only people wanting to go backwards are people like you. We need to give the Left more time dig itself a deeper and give Americans more time to arm themselves and help induce some more riots and scare what's left of the do nothing, we can't do that Republicans out of office. I mean, if you can't trust them, can't count on them and they lack spine, why keep them. What do you think of the new Mitt, the new Mitt has regressed and returned to the old Democratic Mitt?

(06-16-2020, 05:24 PM)David Horn Wrote: [ -> ]And I'm sure you can know why and by whom all that happened. I'm sure there was no provocation -- ever.

FWIW, I watched the police start a riot, by blocking peaceful protestors into a box, and firing pepper balls at them.  Up to that point, nothing had occurred. They got the reaction they wanted, and came down hard.  Did that happen everywhere?  I doubt it, but I only know for certain what I saw with my own eyes.  The police erred by blocking in a news crew with the protestors, and it was all documented on video.

So, it's justified in your opinion. So, are they free to do it again and again and again and again? I'm good with it now that you've shown me that you are aware that there is a limit to tolerance and transgression and seem to be able to accept violence as an alternative. See, we really aren't all that much different than each other when it gets down to it. BTW, when there is a trend of peaceful protests turning into riots with looting, killing, injuries and property being destroyed then shit may begin to happen that normally wouldn't with peaceful protestors. It's called nipping it at the bud which is probably what happened with them. I'm sorry but if the Leftist groups can't get their shit straight among themselves and establish strict guidelines among themselves and keep it peaceful there's pretty good chance that a bunch of them may end up dead and wounded down the road. Who is who ain't going to matter to pissed off citizens who can't rely on law enforcement? The bit that's left of the mushy old center ain't going to be able to do much when all the killing starts. I hope that wiser minds prevail but that requires wiser Democrats which I don't see at the moment or the near future.

(06-16-2020, 03:35 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]You continue to exaggerate the blue violence, when it's mostly over, and you continue not to disapprove of and to excuse the treatment of George Floyd. There have been a few murdered police these days, mostly be people angry at the police, but blue governments continue to prosecute these murders. You continue to deny that you are a racist, when it is mostly blacks whom you accuse of violence, and whites whom you excuse for rampant police brutality against blacks. And the "America" that you defend and believe in is manifestly a white America, and it's an "America" that does not include all of America (North and South America).

I suspect it will be the red side that will initiate the violence, once a blue government takes over again. At that point, it will be your violence that will be met with the violence of the state, and it may not be pretty. It's up to you guys.

I'm not exaggerating, what I stated occurred. Are you dumb enough to deny it? You can sugar coat it if you want but that isn't going to change our opinion of those who participated in the crime.  Do you really think Minneapolis is going to survive a billion dollar disaster caused by a bunch of liberal dumb fuckers associated with the Left.  No big deal for the clueless liberals and you've got plenty of them too. 

I haven't seen a tape of the entire incident. I've seen the beginning and the end and a few camera shots of what took place in between. I don't know enough about the case to have a firm opinion at this point. I'm sorry, I don't have a major stake in Black Lives Matter or the black vote. It didn't look good and I doubt the cop will walk being his knee was clearly on the back of his neck. As far as I'm concerned, it's in the hands of the courts. Me, I'm going wait for the results of trial at this point. I'm pretty sure there will be a day by day account of the trail on all our local news channels.

No, whether we go to war or not is pretty much up to you guys. You see, we aren't going to go to war with an American state. You to dumb to get that but that's normal.

(06-16-2020, 02:38 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-15-2020, 04:39 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-15-2020, 04:21 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-15-2020, 03:35 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-15-2020, 03:23 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]I prefer to see the ENTIRE tape and be presented all that facts before I way in on the situation with George Floyd.

Gee.  I thought you were fact free.  You just did your worldview scattered with violent daydreams, not deal in facts.  But that tape has been on record and widely interpreted for several weeks now.  Judging from the response, the people are not waiting for you to interpret the facts and form your opinion.  That is no way to get anywhere.

I dunno, the stuff that I watched your folks do in Minneapolis and St Paul and other blue cities looked pretty violent. I think we may have to pass a bunch of laws that makes it legal to shoot your folks on sight and agree to pay more taxes to beef up our police forces. I mean, if we can't rely on liberals or Democrats to control their on shit then we are going have to adjust by doing the opposite. We may even have to establish borders and form mew states.

Sure.  Exaggerating violence is much better than justice or equality.  

Turning a blind eye to looting, burning buildings, the destruction of all kinds of property, the killing and injuring of police and residents else where who had nothing to do with George Floyd's death is pretty dumb of you myself. If you think I'm exaggerating then you must be deaf, dumb and blind or you weren't paying any attention and ignoring the entire thing as it was all going on and we were watching it live on TV.

Courts of law will turn no blind eyes to looting, arson, vandalism, assault and battery. Cameras are everywhere, and in many cases people who have brought cameras to document police brutality might catch such an offense as looting. The peaceful protester is not a reliable ally of the person who commits a crime during a demonstration. 

Of course, most retail establishments have cameras for detecting criminal acts such as shoplifting, whether in normal time or during civil unrest. Note well: the right of privacy does not apply to criminal acts because there is no presumed right to commit any criminal offense.

The problem isn't the demonstration: the problem is that a police officer apparently suffocated a defenseless person by kneeling on his throat for nine minutes. 

There is no conflict between a peaceful protest and an expectation of law and order.

(06-16-2020, 10:55 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-16-2020, 03:35 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]You continue to exaggerate the blue violence, when it's mostly over, and you continue not to disapprove of and to excuse the treatment of George Floyd. There have been a few murdered police these days, mostly by people angry at the police, but blue governments continue to prosecute these murders. You continue to deny that you are a racist, when it is mostly blacks whom you accuse of violence, and whites whom you excuse for rampant police brutality against blacks. And the "America" that you defend and believe in is manifestly a white America, and it's an "America" that does not include all of America (North and South America).

I suspect it will be the red side that will initiate the violence, once a blue government takes over again. At that point, it will be your violence that will be met with the violence of the state, and it may not be pretty. It's up to you guys.

I'm not exaggerating, what I stated occurred. Are you dumb enough to deny it? You can sugar coat it if you want but that isn't going to change our opinion of those who participated in the crime.  Do you really think Minneapolis is going to survive a billion dollar disaster caused by a bunch of liberal dumb fuckers associated with the Left.  No big deal for the clueless liberals and you've got plenty of them too. 

I haven't seen a tape of the entire incident. I've seen the beginning and the end and a few camera shots of what took place in between. I don't know enough about the case to have a firm opinion at this point. I'm sorry, I don't have a major stake in Black Lives Matter or the black vote. It didn't look good and I doubt the cop will walk being his knee was clearly on the back of his neck. As far as I'm concerned, it's in the hands of the courts. Me, I'm going wait for the results of trial at this point. I'm pretty sure there will be a day by day account of the trail on all our local news channels.

No, whether we go to war or not is pretty much up to you guys. You see, we aren't going to go to war with an American state. You to dumb to get that but that's normal.

You are denying that the riots stopped and the peaceful protests are what continued. And you don't know who did what. It was not people on the Left, unless you consider angry black youths, white supremacy provacateurs and hungry looters, "liberals associated with the Left." Many of them probably don't even vote. You seem to be focusing entirely on Minneapolis in your concern over a "disaster." I don't know how much damage there was there. I haven't heard of any concern that "Minneapolis will not survive." What I hear about is moves toward dismantling the police department and starting over. That would be wise.

I don't care what your opinion is after seeing an entire tape. I'm not sure there is one. The Courts may not provide a proper verdict, if history is any guide. Right now the tide is turning against police brutality, but how far the tide will rise is unclear. Whether it reaches the jury room for this trial is unclear.

I don't agree there; it's the Right that is dumb enough to go against the state, and they have been threatening it for a while. It is not the whole Right, any more than rioters are the whole Left.

I don't expect a revolt by the Left against a right-wing state to be any more successful than the reverse. Riots are just outbursts, not really an organized revolt. But I expect, according to my indications, that the Left will win control of the state during this decade, so if there's a revolt, it therefore would be from the Right. And the cycles indicate that such a revolt, from one side or the other, is probably going to happen. I expect it would be shorter and not as deadly compared to the civil war though. It could be quite minor; that remains to be seen.

(06-16-2020, 07:44 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-15-2020, 09:43 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]The movement is not from the new values to the old.  The Republican alliance is between the racists, the elites, and those small government hedonists who expect to stay in the unravelling state forever.  If you step back to Bush 43’s war, there was the Neo Con idea of using force to institute neocolonialism, which got stepped on by insurrection and led to a conclusion that putting boots on the ground was a bad idea.

It looks like the crisis heart issues we are seeing right now are going to diminish or destroy the conservative thinking entirely, as usual in the last several crises.  The usual high dislike of the old values ought to finish the job.  Classic is sort of in denial.

But I sympathize with one culture’s opinion of what is important to another culture is often pretty simplistic.  It is not surprising that another culture will be in another place, and concerned with different issues.

As long as we have liberal Democrats who are reliant upon racism and need to use racism as a political tool  or a political crutch, we'll  always have racism that exists.

We liberal Democrats depend less upon ethnic identity than your side does for dividing America into hostile, exclusive camps. We are to no small part a coalition of people who cooperate across ethnic lines with the objective of a better world. 

Quote:I mean, wasn't it Biden who told a black person that they weren't black if they wouldn't support him.

It is not mainstream behavior among blacks to support an overt white racist like Donald Trump. As a person with a handicap I recognize what Donald Trump has done as a campaigner and as President. With Trump, dignity is a privilege and not a right. One can never predict what people will next feel his rage.

As someone with a handicap, to wit a neurological disorder that does not compromise my ethical values or learning ability, I am a minority even if I do not look like one. Consider this: a literal cripple led this country through one of its most dangerous times and did so quite well.    

Quote:So, with that said, we don't have a problem with all blacks. We have a problem with your blacks and other minorities so to speak and a problem with the whites as well. I'm sorry but we can't help idiots who believe everything that comes out of mouth of Leftists or is preached by those on CNN or MSNBC.

I can assure you that what comes out of the mouth of Rachel Maddow has little 'idiot appeal'. You may dislike her style, but she makes her case very well... better than just about any news analyst who takes the role seriously. The most effective analysis comes from the comedy shows. Donald Trump is so incompetent that he is almost a comic villain that one can treat much like "Adenoid Hynkel" in Charlie Chaplin's The Great Dictator. 

Quote:I don't know if you'll live to experience the results/outcome like AOC and her gang.

She will mellow some as she develops a constituency to which she must deliver tangible benefits or she will go down to defeat at some point. She is far to the left of the mainstream of the Democratic Party. The problem with your Republican Party is that it has increasingly endorsed the most extreme positions within it. 
  

Quote:So, you think we're reaching the head of the crisis that we've  been experiencing right now. Hmmm....I don't view it that way at all. I think we've got a ways to go before we reach the head and settle things. We've just seen the crash of 1929 a few months ago.

No, we saw that crash about 12 years ago. (By the way... the real crashes were in 1930 and 2008. 1929 and 2007 were closer parallels as the end of speculative booms at the end of 3T  that ended with panics that predictably end bubble economies. What was different this time as opposed to the three-year meltdown that began in 1929 was that the one that began in 2007 lasted a year and a half before the political system backed the financial system and stopped the bleeding. The bank runs of the latter part of 1931 and throughout 1932 made the Great Depression as severe as it was, and any semblance of recovery was possible only when FDR backed the banks.

Another difference was political: the great three-year meltdown of the American economy discredited economic elites who had economic values out of the Gilded Age, basically that no human suffering could ever be excessive if such suffering allowed the power, indulgence, and gain of elites. (Get it? P. I. G. ... may I suggest George Orwell's Animal Farm as an allegory that conflates porcine behavior to Humanity at its most abusive and exploitative despite the trappings of idealism). The recovery starting in early 2009 allowed those elites to buy the political process... and here we are. The fool that we now have as President bungled the response to COVID-19, and we now have a sudden and severe recession.    

Quote:I believe we be 4T and the only people wanting to go backwards are people like you. We need to give the Left more time dig itself a deeper and give Americans more time to arm themselves and help induce some more riots and scare what's left of the do nothing, we can't do that Republicans out of office.

The Hard Right of course prefers an economic order in which people other than the economic elites fear hunger as a consequence for failing to suffer for their power, indulgence, and gain. We have economic elites little more moral than feudal magnates and slave-owning planters in their economic morality... people who believe that someone who lives in their midst owes everything to them and deserves to die horribly upon any show of rebellion, whether quickly and brutally in an execution or by slow starvation for failure to work up to some norm. The generational cycle allows things to go only so far here... and it is turning away from an ethos of extreme inequality with unreason as its support to something more equitable and rational. Live with that. Most people now seem to believe that a more rational and just order is worth the effort -- and higher taxes.

Quote: I mean, if you can't trust them, can't count on them and they lack spine, why keep them. What do you think of the new Mitt, the new Mitt has regressed and returned to the old Democratic Mitt?

Mitt Romney saw what a rogue Donald Trump is, and at that he is in line with the vast majority of Democrats. If he saw Obama as too far Left, he saw Donald Trump as too far rogue. Irresponsible behavior by political leaders does harm wherever it is on the political spectrum.

Count on this: I expect a revival of political conservatism in America in about twenty years. But that conservatism will act far more like Obama than like Trump. Obama is about as conservative in style as one gets. In one respect, Obama is one of the least socialist of American Presidents: he did more to undo socialism in America than any prior President in selling off government assets acquired through "receivership socialism".

(06-16-2020, 10:55 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-16-2020, 03:35 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]You continue to exaggerate the blue violence, when it's mostly over, and you continue not to disapprove of and to excuse the treatment of George Floyd. There have been a few murdered police these days, mostly be people angry at the police, but blue governments continue to prosecute these murders. You continue to deny that you are a racist, when it is mostly blacks whom you accuse of violence, and whites whom you excuse for rampant police brutality against blacks. And the "America" that you defend and believe in is manifestly a white America, and it's an "America" that does not include all of America (North and South America).

I suspect it will be the red side that will initiate the violence, once a blue government takes over again. At that point, it will be your violence that will be met with the violence of the state, and it may not be pretty. It's up to you guys.

I'm not exaggerating, what I stated occurred. Are you dumb enough to deny it? You can sugar coat it if you want but that isn't going to change our opinion of those who participated in the crime.  Do you really think Minneapolis is going to survive a billion dollar disaster caused by a bunch of liberal dumb fuckers associated with the Left.  No big deal for the clueless liberals and you've got plenty of them too.

No. Derek Chauvin, politics not shown to America as a whole (which is probably best), suffocating a helpless man by kneeling on his throat. That may constitute a crime (which is for the courts, and not for me, to decide) . Maybe it was his personality or his inadequate training... or the spinelessness of fellow police... that allowed George Floyd to die a pointless death that has spurred rallies.

But let us not forget another disaster, one that has cost about 120 thousand American lives alone: COVID-19, which our current President has botched badly. Figuring that such a death costs a few thousand dollars each... COVID-19 is not cheap even if one survives it... $9000 per death alone creates a billion-dollar calamity.  

Quote:I haven't seen a tape of the entire incident. I've seen the beginning and the end and a few camera shots of what took place in between. I don't know enough about the case to have a firm opinion at this point.

I haven't seen it all; I need not. I have watched recorded executions (mostly of Nazi war criminals and Holocaust perpetrators and of Satan Hussein and Nicolae and Elena Ceausescu... and I did see images of the corpses of Benito Mussolini and some of his associates strung up head down as one recalls from some depictions of the damned in Dante's Inferno (nice style, Italian partisans... you read your Dante and it shows!)... OK, the hanging of Karl Hermann Frank (Nazi overlord of the Czech parts of occupied Czechoslovakia) is gentle compared to what he ordered for the villages of Lezaky and Lidice. I have no empathy for serial mass killers, the worst of the worst. 

I really have no desire to see George Floyd die. Do you? Judgment is rightly left to courts of law. We will never know whether George Floyd did something to merit arrest because the police failed to do their job, part of which is to deliver someone arrested safely for trial by the legal process. Such is my interpretation.

Quote:I'm sorry, I don't have a major stake in Black Lives Matter or the black vote.

Bad things happen to people who either have no vote (think of people who lived under the thrall of Karl Hermann Frank) or can vote but only with a prescribed choice that ratifies what the leaders endorse (as with Satan Hussein or "Draculescu"). In a liberal community such as Minneapolis such is incredibly shocking.

Quote:It didn't look good and I doubt the cop will walk being his knee was clearly on the back of his neck. As far as I'm concerned, it's in the hands of the courts. Me, I'm going wait for the results of trial at this point. I'm pretty sure there will be a day by day account of the trail on all our local news channels.

I concur with this. Of course there will need to be reforms of police procedures so that a criminal suspect such as George Floyd can be safely hauled off to the legal system to judge his conduct for criminal fault.

Quote:No, whether we go to war or not is pretty much up to you guys. You see, we aren't going to go to war with an American state. You to dumb to get that but that's normal.

We do not need war. And, yes, black lives must matter in America. The ancestors of some of us white people brought the African ancestors of most blacks to America to be super-cheap labor with no rights to toil for the power, indulgence, and gain of the plantation owners. Black lives are no less human than my 'white life'. I don't often think of what it means to be white. But this said, I wish that there had been an equivalent of "Black Lives Matter" in Hitlerland, one best translated as "Jewish Lives Matter".

(06-16-2020, 09:28 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-16-2020, 05:24 PM)David Horn Wrote: [ -> ]FWIW, I watched the police start a riot, by blocking peaceful protestors into a box, and firing pepper balls at them.  Up to that point, nothing had occurred. They got the reaction they wanted, and came down hard.  Did that happen everywhere?  I doubt it, but I only know for certain what I saw with my own eyes.  The police erred by blocking in a news crew with the protestors, and it was all documented on video.

So, it's justified in your opinion. So, are they free to do it again and again and again and again? I'm good with it now that you've shown me that you are aware that there is a limit to tolerance and transgression and seem to be able to accept violence as an alternative. See, we really aren't all that much different than each other when it gets down to it. BTW, when there is a trend of peaceful protests turning into riots with looting, killing, injuries and property being destroyed then shit may begin to happen that normally wouldn't with peaceful protestors. It's called nipping it at the bud which is probably what happened with them. I'm sorry but if the Leftist groups can't get their shit straight among themselves and establish strict guidelines among themselves and keep it peaceful there's pretty good chance that a bunch of them may end up dead and wounded down the road. Who is who ain't going to matter to pissed off citizens who can't rely on law enforcement? The bit that's left of the mushy old center ain't going to be able to do much when all the killing starts. I hope that wiser minds prevail but that requires wiser Democrats which I don't see at the moment or the near future.

In another unrelated event, two law enforcement members were summarily killed by a two man crew of Boogaloo Bois. Both are in custody.  Both are extreme right wingers, so hardly sympathetic to the protestors at the event they used as cover.  Most of the looting in NYC during protests is, likewise, typical Boogaloo Boy behavior.  So be careful throwing accusations around.,

(06-17-2020, 10:49 AM)David Horn Wrote: [ -> ]In another unrelated event, two law enforcement members were summarily killed by a two man crew of Boogaloo Bois. Both are in custody.  Both are extreme right wingers, so hardly sympathetic to the protestors at the event they used as cover.  Most of the looting in NYC during protests is, likewise, typical Boogaloo Boy behavior.  So be careful throwing accusations around.

It seems to me that this repeats what happened last time around too.  Martin Luther King had center stage in the Civil Rights Movement, but there was always Malcom X and the Black Panthers ready to use violence waiting in the background.  This time around there seem not to be such prominent leaders, or they have yet to bubble to the front.  The movement so far has been more spontaneous.  Perhaps it is the speed.  Perhaps there are leaders still around from the last confrontation that are stealing the spotlight.  There seems to be more contempt for the looters than fear.  Still, it seems to echo oddly.

The AP has another case, this time in St Louis, of a white police officer hitting a black man with his police SUV, then using force against him.. Charges in progress. Again, there is video of the incident.

They are certainly slow to learn.

(06-17-2020, 01:29 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]The AP has another case, this time in St Louis, of a white police officer hitting a black man with his police SUV, then using force against him.. Charges in progress.  Again, there is video of the incident.

They are certainly slow to learn.

https://www.facebook.com/nicole.faith.96...02941/?t=1

(06-16-2020, 02:38 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-15-2020, 04:39 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-15-2020, 04:21 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-15-2020, 03:35 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-15-2020, 03:23 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]I prefer to see the ENTIRE tape and be presented all that facts before I way in on the situation with George Floyd.

Gee.  I thought you were fact free.  You just did your worldview scattered with violent daydreams, not deal in facts.  But that tape has been on record and widely interpreted for several weeks now.  Judging from the response, the people are not waiting for you to interpret the facts and form your opinion.  That is no way to get anywhere.

I dunno, the stuff that I watched your folks do in Minneapolis and St Paul and other blue cities looked pretty violent. I think we may have to pass a bunch of laws that makes it legal to shoot your folks on sight and agree to pay more taxes to beef up our police forces. I mean, if we can't rely on liberals or Democrats to control their on shit then we are going have to adjust by doing the opposite. We may even have to establish borders and form mew states.

Sure.  Exaggerating violence is much better than justice or equality.  

Turning a blind eye to looting, burning buildings, the destruction of all kinds of property, the killing and injuring of police and residents else where who had nothing to do with George Floyd's death is pretty dumb of you myself. If you think I'm exaggerating then you must be deaf, dumb and blind or you weren't paying any attention and ignoring the entire thing as it was all going on and we were watching it live on TV.

Here is my suggestion to anyone who has footage of looting, arson, property destruction, or assaults. Take your camera or your cell phone to the local police or prosecuting attorney... download it, swear to or affirm its genuineness, and shut up about it should the police or DA ask you to say nothing before relevant cases go to a court of criminal law. Shut up -- because you may have the dubious privilege of testifying against criminal offenders by stating that your footage is genuine. You want to do nothing to compromise the case, do you?

(06-17-2020, 01:29 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]The AP has another case, this time in St Louis, of a white police officer hitting a black man with his police SUV, then using force against him.. Charges in progress.  Again, there is video of the incident.

They are certainly slow to learn.

Are we going to hear about every white cop who seems to do something bad to some black person? What color of skin do you have Bob, is it black or white like mine? What are you/ the Democrats/ the Left and others really teaching by singling out whites the way that you do and blaming whites for the shitty lives of their minorities? Hint....Our whites, our minorities, our men, our women and our children are doing just fine without Democratic support and government handouts. You are teaching racism like Obama/s preacher/mentor and Al Sharpton and the Neo Nazis and The KKK and other racist groups. You are all in the same boat with them. Are you guys any better than Hitler and the dumb/ignorant  Germans who supported him or the Nazi party? Nope. So, who are acting like Nazi's? Who are tearing down historical statues and banning books and trying to erase history and rewrite history like them? 

One must assume that the white vote ain't what the liberals value these days and racism is still one of their primary values and one of their top priorities to maintain and keep alive. Like I said, you better start paying more attention to what you say to other people and what you have to say about other people as well. I'm not the one on trial here, you're just to dumb to figure that out. What happened in the old forum (the whittling down and removal of liberals/ the Left) is going to start happening across the nation

(06-17-2020, 09:18 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-17-2020, 01:29 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]The AP has another case, this time in St Louis, of a white police officer hitting a black man with his police SUV, then using force against him.. Charges in progress.  Again, there is video of the incident.

They are certainly slow to learn.

Are we going to hear about every white cop who seems to do something bad to some black person? What color of skin do you have Bob, is it black or white like mine? What are you/ the Democrats/ the Left and others really teaching by singling out whites the way that you do and blaming whites for the shitty lives of their minorities? Hint....Our whites, our minorities, our men, our women and our children are doing just fine without Democratic support and government handouts. You are teaching racism like Obama/s preacher/mentor and Al Sharpton and the Neo Nazis and The KKK and other racist groups. You are all in the same boat with them. Are you guys any better than Hitler and the dumb/ignorant  Germans who supported him or the Nazi party? Nope.  So, who are acting like Nazi's? Who are tearing down historical statues and banning books and trying to erase history and rewrite history like them? 

 One must assume that the white vote ain't what the liberals value these days and racism is still one of their primary values and one of their top priorities to maintain and keep alive. Like I said, you better start paying more attention to what you say to other people and what you have to say about other people as well. I'm not the one on trial here, you're just to dumb to figure that out. What happened in the old forum (the whittling down and removal of liberals/ the Left) is going to start happening across the nation

My skin color is not relevant.

The lack of justice and equality is relevant.  The racist patten of the police is relevant.  Your own racist and violent attitudes that this pattern should continue is relevant.

Every two or four generations there is rejection of the racism, and movement towards justice.  Many conservatives, such as yourself, would rather see the racism, violence, injustice in inequality continue.  This isn’t your moment in history.  Go fade into the looser's place in the history books, the holder of an antiquated set of values which are held as abhorrent.

Unlike what classic Xer says, two sherriff and federal officers were murdered in northern CA by a member of the far right boogaloo movement which wants to start a civil war.

(06-17-2020, 11:14 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]Unlike what classic Xer says, two sherriff and federal officers were murdered in northern CA by a member of the far right boogaloo movement which wants to start a civil war.

Nitpick:  The Boogaloo Boys believe revolution is the only way to renew an establishment out of hand.  In this they are following the path of Stalin and Mao, which most consider discredited.  The Republicans are the establishment out of hand.  I'm not sure both deserve the same label, or if so it is a weird label.  I also think Classic can't tell the Black Lives matter from the Boogaloo Boys, or pretends not to be able to tell.  He has been arguing for racist violence, while both the protesters and the Boogaloo Boys are against it in very different ways.