Generational Theory Forum: The Fourth Turning Forum: A message board discussing generations and the Strauss Howe generational theory

(01-21-2022, 02:53 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-21-2022, 01:27 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-20-2022, 09:29 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not opposed to democracy, I've been actively participating in it along with tens of millions of other Americans for many years, I'm opposed to bribing, entrapment and cheating. So, am I speaking to a Green Party member or a Democratic supporter right now? Oh, are you trying to buy political influence with your own money or are you trying to buy it with someone else's money? If you are a go between, what's your cut of the action?

You and your allies are opposed to democracy. Your Republican Party just blocked what is needed to preserve it from those taking it away. Your side is in favor of cheating, bribing and entrapment.

You do me too much credit. It is your side that does all the buying, and makes all the buying possible with your blocks to reforms for decades now. I am a Democrat right now.

Look where you're at today. How much credit do you have left?

You lose the debate here, by posting nothing but dribble all the time. But the USA seems to be moving to your side; not because of you, but because like you, Americans are stupid. It looks like they never support a Democratic president anymore after electing one. 2022 looks like 2010, 1994 and 1978. It means this is the only year in which anything constructive can be achieved by the USA. And that won't be much, which means complete disaster is on the horizon as far as can be seen. And you right-wing idiots will suffer just as much as anyone else. You brought it on yourselves.

(Classic X'er) How much is a life worth?

We have prisons as deterrents for murder and for crimes that can easily result in murder such as rape, arson, and armed robbery.

We have the police busting speeders and drunk or drugged drivers.

We spend huge amounts of money on hospitals and medical research.

We have fire departments.

We spend huge amounts of money on road reconstruction to make highways safer.

We celebrate people who save lives and we vilify killers. We treat mass death as great tragedy.

We have peace movements.

Anything else would be inhuman.

(01-21-2022, 04:44 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-21-2022, 02:53 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-21-2022, 01:27 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]You and your allies are opposed to democracy. Your Republican Party just blocked what is needed to preserve it from those taking it away. Your side is in favor of cheating, bribing and entrapment.

You do me too much credit. It is your side that does all the buying, and makes all the buying possible with your blocks to reforms for decades now. I am a Democrat right now.

Look where you're at today. How much credit do you have left?

You haven't answered any of my questions. That gives you no credit.

What questions? Do you see any questions? I've seen the emotional rants of a Marxist Revolutionary who isn't getting his way but no questions.

(01-21-2022, 11:31 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]You lose the debate here, by posting nothing but dribble all the time. But the USA seems to be moving to your side; not because of you, but because like you, Americans are stupid. It looks like they never support a Democratic president anymore after electing one. 2022 looks like 2010, 1994 and 1978. It means this is the only year in which anything constructive can be achieved by the USA. And that won't be much, which means complete disaster is on the horizon as far as can be seen. And you right-wing idiots will suffer just as much as anyone else. You brought it on yourselves.

Unfortunately for you, Americans aren't as stupid as people like you tend to believe. The Democratic candidates have a major character flaw. The Democratic candidates are into lying and playing bait and switch and get caught and lose national support. Obama had the benefit of being the 1st black President and passing a welfare bill that provided free health for millions of people that most Americans didn't vote for at the time which got him reelected for a second term in office because of the way it was set up. It was a punk move but it worked for the punk. Biden isn't as fortunate as Obama and neither is Harris since she's an upper middle class minority who shouldn't be in the position she is today. One can see it in her demeanor and her attitude. She's a snotty upper class c--t and there's no hiding it because it's obvious. Yes. I tend to lose debates/fights here. It's four vs one so go figure that's the way it is here for now,

(01-24-2022, 01:27 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-21-2022, 11:31 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]You lose the debate here, by posting nothing but dribble all the time. But the USA seems to be moving to your side; not because of you, but because like you, Americans are stupid. It looks like they never support a Democratic president anymore after electing one. 2022 looks like 2010, 1994 and 1978. It means this is the only year in which anything constructive can be achieved by the USA. And that won't be much, which means complete disaster is on the horizon as far as can be seen. And you right-wing idiots will suffer just as much as anyone else. You brought it on yourselves.

Unfortunately for you, Americans aren't as stupid as people like you tend to believe.

Trump supporters keep amazing me for the intensity of their folly and even hypocrisy. So far I keep seeing something that tops the last such incident. To be sure, college grads can do some stupid things, but even white male college grads voted more for Biden than for Trump. But on the whole, college grads are smarter than those who don't graduate from college. Smart kids typically get pushed to attend college and dumb ones don't.

from May 2021, when disparities of inoculation were near the peak:

Quote:Vaccination rates increased with educational attainment. More than 60% of the respondents with a Bachelor’s degree received at least one dose of the vaccine, as compared to less than 40% of those with a high school diploma or less. 

https://bloustein.rutgers.edu/wp-content..._May21.pdf

Better-educated people are likely to be better-informed and to better understand risks. They are less likely to be superstitious.

Quote:The Democratic candidates have a major character flaw. The Democratic candidates are into lying and playing bait and switch and get caught and lose national support.

More likely it is the secretive, Republican-aligned Dark Money groups that flood the media with attack ads that befuddle people into voting for those who adhere to the aristocratic attitude that no human suffering or deprivation can ever be in excess in the service of the Master Class of Owners and Enforcers.

Quote: Obama had the benefit of being the 1st black President and passing a welfare bill that provided free health for millions of people that most Americans didn't vote for at the time which got him reelected for a second term in office because of the way it was set up. It was a punk move but it worked for the punk. Biden isn't as fortunate as Obama and neither is Harris since she's an upper middle class minority who shouldn't be in the position she is today. One can see it in her demeanor and her attitude. She's a snotty upper class c--t and there's no hiding it because it's obvious. Yes. I tend to lose debates/fights here. It's four vs one so go figure that's the way it is here for now,

[/quote]

Being black was no political asset for Obama. His character was far more important.  Free health care? I can assure you that the people who got that would have been happier getting cash. Aside from the agenda, Obama conducted himself as an arch-conservative. Yes, I know -- he offended Donald Trump when the Great Ignoramus pushed "Birther" nonsense. Obama was born in America to an American woman (the latter would have been enough to make him an American citizen by birth) even had he been born in some mud hut in his father's homeland Kenya. 

The best analogue that I see to him for behavior as President is Dwight Eisenhower. In two Presidential elections Ike has six of the Republican wins of Presidential nominees  of eleven times in seventy years from Massachusetts, Minnesota, and Rhode Island, three very tough states for Republican nominees. Political culture within the states can change due to demographics, but that is far rarer than the nature of the two main Parties. In general I could say that the sorts of demographics who "liked Ike" voted for Obama -- except farm-and-ranch interests. 

   When all is said and done, I think that the Obama and Eisenhower Presidencies are going to look like good analogues. Both Presidents are chilly rationalists. Both are practically scandal-free administrations. Both started with a troublesome war that both found their way out of. Neither did much to 'grow' the strength of their Parties in either House of Congress. To compare ISIS to Fidel Castro is completely unfair to Fidel Castro, a gentleman by contrast to ISIS. 

The definitive moderate Republican may have been Dwight Eisenhower, and I have heard plenty of Democrats praise the Eisenhower Presidency. He went along with Supreme Court rulings that outlawed segregationist practices, stayed clear of the McCarthy bandwagon, and let McCarthy implode.


 
gray -- did not vote in 1952 or 1956
white -- Eisenhower twice, Obama twice
deep blue -- Republican all four elections
light blue -- Republican all but 2012 (I assume that greater Omaha went for Ike twice)
light green -- Eisenhower once, Stevenson once, Obama never
dark green -- Stevenson twice, Obama never
pink -- Stevenson twice, Obama once 

No state voted Democratic all four times, so no state is in deep red.

FWIW, I'm noticing that everyday ordinary people are starting to question why we are still trying to be one country. I haven't seen that in the past. The real question, when does that become an issue for the majority (or at least, a large minority)? If and when it does, the USA is nearing its end as a united cluster of diverse states, and what follows may be chaos.

(01-24-2022, 11:26 AM)David Horn Wrote: [ -> ]FWIW, I'm noticing that everyday ordinary people are starting to question why we are still trying to be one country.  I haven't seen that in the past.  The real question, when does that become an issue for the majority (or at least, a large minority)?  If and when it does, the USA is nearing its end as a united cluster of diverse states, and what follows may be chaos.

Some Americans would rather live in a liberal society with an activist government that makes personal failure unlikely; some would like their superstitions and bigotry confirmed and enforced. It's basically Germany or a Christian fundamentalist version of Iran.

(01-24-2022, 11:26 AM)David Horn Wrote: [ -> ]FWIW, I'm noticing that everyday ordinary people are starting to question why we are still trying to be one country.  I haven't seen that in the past.  The real question, when does that become an issue for the majority (or at least, a large minority)?  If and when it does, the USA is nearing its end as a united cluster of diverse states, and what follows may be chaos.

I notice that watching a documentary about the native first peoples who lived in Arkansas, Texas, Louisiana and Oklahoma, and they describe that area as "that part of the country", and I think, is that really a part of my country? Are those areas a part of my country anymore?

(01-24-2022, 01:27 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-21-2022, 11:31 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]You lose the debate here, by posting nothing but dribble all the time. But the USA seems to be moving to your side; not because of you, but because like you, Americans are stupid. It looks like they never support a Democratic president anymore after electing one. 2022 looks like 2010, 1994 and 1978. It means this is the only year in which anything constructive can be achieved by the USA. And that won't be much, which means complete disaster is on the horizon as far as can be seen. And you right-wing idiots will suffer just as much as anyone else. You brought it on yourselves.

Unfortunately for you, Americans aren't as stupid as people like you tend to believe. The Democratic candidates have a major character flaw. The Democratic candidates are into lying and playing bait and switch and get caught and lose national support. Obama had the benefit of being the 1st black President and passing a welfare bill that provided free health for millions of people that most Americans didn't vote for at the time which got him reelected for a second term in office because of the way it was set up. It was a punk move but it worked for the punk. Biden isn't as fortunate as Obama and neither is Harris since she's an upper middle class minority who shouldn't be in the position she is today. One can see it in her demeanor and her attitude. She's a snotty upper class c--t and there's no hiding it because it's obvious. Yes. I tend to lose debates/fights here. It's four vs one so go figure that's the way it is here for now,

You guys bought hook, line and sinker the trickle-down, anti-welfare theory, and its racist overtones, because it makes you feel superior as the people of the "real America."

(01-25-2022, 03:30 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-24-2022, 11:26 AM)David Horn Wrote: [ -> ]FWIW, I'm noticing that everyday ordinary people are starting to question why we are still trying to be one country.  I haven't seen that in the past.  The real question, when does that become an issue for the majority (or at least, a large minority)?  If and when it does, the USA is nearing its end as a united cluster of diverse states, and what follows may be chaos.

I notice that watching a documentary about the native first peoples who lived in Arkansas, Texas, Louisiana and Oklahoma, and they describe that area as "that part of the country", and I think, is that really a part of my country? Are those areas a part of my country anymore?

First of all, America isn't your country and that will be proven beyond all doubt this year.

(01-25-2022, 03:32 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-24-2022, 01:27 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-21-2022, 11:31 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]You lose the debate here, by posting nothing but dribble all the time. But the USA seems to be moving to your side; not because of you, but because like you, Americans are stupid. It looks like they never support a Democratic president anymore after electing one. 2022 looks like 2010, 1994 and 1978. It means this is the only year in which anything constructive can be achieved by the USA. And that won't be much, which means complete disaster is on the horizon as far as can be seen. And you right-wing idiots will suffer just as much as anyone else. You brought it on yourselves.

Unfortunately for you, Americans aren't as stupid as people like you tend to believe. The Democratic candidates have a major character flaw. The Democratic candidates are into lying and playing bait and switch and get caught and lose national support. Obama had the benefit of being the 1st black President and passing a welfare bill that provided free health for millions of people that most Americans didn't vote for at the time which got him reelected for a second term in office because of the way it was set up. It was a punk move but it worked for the punk. Biden isn't as fortunate as Obama and neither is Harris since she's an upper middle class minority who shouldn't be in the position she is today. One can see it in her demeanor and her attitude. She's a snotty upper class c--t and there's no hiding it because it's obvious. Yes. I tend to lose debates/fights here. It's four vs one so go figure that's the way it is here for now,

You guys bought hook, line and sinker the trickle-down, anti-welfare theory, and its racist overtones, because it makes you feel superior as the people of the "real America."

Aren't you one of Them who has spent years feeling more superior and promoting themselves as more superior than others and gaining support of others like Them who feel more superior? Me, all I've been doing is showing others about Them and proving you're wrong about yourselves for almost 20 years. As far as you and I, I know that I'm more superior than you and you've been learning that about me for many years now.

Let's be clear: someone who can claim to be right on some matter is not claiming superiority.

(01-25-2022, 05:08 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-25-2022, 03:32 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-24-2022, 01:27 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-21-2022, 11:31 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]You lose the debate here, by posting nothing but dribble all the time. But the USA seems to be moving to your side; not because of you, but because like you, Americans are stupid. It looks like they never support a Democratic president anymore after electing one. 2022 looks like 2010, 1994 and 1978. It means this is the only year in which anything constructive can be achieved by the USA. And that won't be much, which means complete disaster is on the horizon as far as can be seen. And you right-wing idiots will suffer just as much as anyone else. You brought it on yourselves.

Unfortunately for you, Americans aren't as stupid as people like you tend to believe. The Democratic candidates have a major character flaw. The Democratic candidates are into lying and playing bait and switch and get caught and lose national support. Obama had the benefit of being the 1st black President and passing a welfare bill that provided free health for millions of people that most Americans didn't vote for at the time which got him reelected for a second term in office because of the way it was set up. It was a punk move but it worked for the punk. Biden isn't as fortunate as Obama and neither is Harris since she's an upper middle class minority who shouldn't be in the position she is today. One can see it in her demeanor and her attitude. She's a snotty upper class c--t and there's no hiding it because it's obvious. Yes. I tend to lose debates/fights here. It's four vs one so go figure that's the way it is here for now,

You guys bought hook, line and sinker the trickle-down, anti-welfare theory, and its racist overtones, because it makes you feel superior as the people of the "real America."

Aren't you one of Them who has spent years feeling more superior and promoting themselves as more superior than others and gaining support of others like Them who feel more superior? Me, all I've been doing is showing others about Them and proving you're wrong about yourselves for almost 20 years. As far as you and I, I know that I'm more superior than you and you've been learning that about me for many years now.

Ha ha, no, I failed your class, Classic

(01-25-2022, 04:34 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-25-2022, 03:30 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-24-2022, 11:26 AM)David Horn Wrote: [ -> ]FWIW, I'm noticing that everyday ordinary people are starting to question why we are still trying to be one country.  I haven't seen that in the past.  The real question, when does that become an issue for the majority (or at least, a large minority)?  If and when it does, the USA is nearing its end as a united cluster of diverse states, and what follows may be chaos.

I notice that watching a documentary about the native first peoples who lived in Arkansas, Texas, Louisiana and Oklahoma, and they describe that area as "that part of the country", and I think, is that really a part of my country? Are those areas a part of my country anymore?

First of all, America isn't your country and that will be proven beyond all doubt this year.

Nah, at worst for us the Republicans will have a big victory in congressional elections and take over the House. But Republican midterm victories during a Democratic administration is par for the course. It happened in 1946, 1966, 1978, 1994, and 2010. Why would 2022 be any different, or indicate who's country it is? As you can see, your victories were not permanent.

(01-25-2022, 07:48 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-25-2022, 04:34 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-25-2022, 03:30 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-24-2022, 11:26 AM)David Horn Wrote: [ -> ]FWIW, I'm noticing that everyday ordinary people are starting to question why we are still trying to be one country.  I haven't seen that in the past.  The real question, when does that become an issue for the majority (or at least, a large minority)?  If and when it does, the USA is nearing its end as a united cluster of diverse states, and what follows may be chaos.

I notice that watching a documentary about the native first peoples who lived in Arkansas, Texas, Louisiana and Oklahoma, and they describe that area as "that part of the country", and I think, is that really a part of my country? Are those areas a part of my country anymore?

First of all, America isn't your country and that will be proven beyond all doubt this year.

Nah, at worst for us the Republicans will have a big victory in congressional elections and take over the House. But Republican midterm victories during a Democratic administration is par for the course. It happened in 1946, 1966, 1978, 1994, and 2010. Why would 2022 be any different, or indicate who's country it is? As you can see, your victories were not permanent.

You can feel that way if you want and continue to ignore as America transitions to 4T as people like you continue clinging to 3T. I told you that electing Chamberlain/Hoover at this particular time was a bad idea. Well, you're stuck with him or her or whoever replaces them as your ruler. Fortunately, Americans have freedom and don't have to remain stuck with him or her these days. You better be able to think outside the box because we are living in unprecedented times right now. It's kind of funny how the people who are supposed to be so smart haven't quite figured that out yet.

(01-25-2022, 07:44 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]Ha ha, no, I failed your class, Classic

I know you did which is why you tend to vote the way you do these days.

(01-25-2022, 06:37 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]Let's be clear: someone who can claim to be right on some matter is not claiming superiority.

Yes they are, what's the point of doing it otherwise?

(01-25-2022, 03:30 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-24-2022, 11:26 AM)David Horn Wrote: [ -> ]FWIW, I'm noticing that everyday ordinary people are starting to question why we are still trying to be one country.  I haven't seen that in the past.  The real question, when does that become an issue for the majority (or at least, a large minority)?  If and when it does, the USA is nearing its end as a united cluster of diverse states, and what follows may be chaos.

I notice that watching a documentary about the native first peoples who lived in Arkansas, Texas, Louisiana and Oklahoma, and they describe that area as "that part of the country", and I think, is that really a part of my country? Are those areas a part of my country anymore?

Yes, some places are decidedly Blue and others Red.  But many places are Purple, and I don't know how that plays long term.

(01-25-2022, 04:34 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-25-2022, 03:30 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-24-2022, 11:26 AM)David Horn Wrote: [ -> ]FWIW, I'm noticing that everyday ordinary people are starting to question why we are still trying to be one country.  I haven't seen that in the past.  The real question, when does that become an issue for the majority (or at least, a large minority)?  If and when it does, the USA is nearing its end as a united cluster of diverse states, and what follows may be chaos.

I notice that watching a documentary about the native first peoples who lived in Arkansas, Texas, Louisiana and Oklahoma, and they describe that area as "that part of the country", and I think, is that really a part of my country? Are those areas a part of my country anymore?

First of all, America isn't your country and that will be proven beyond all doubt this year.

The same can be said for you.  We're all too divided now, and America is really more a Swiss Cheese nation than a unified one.

(01-26-2022, 11:23 AM)David Horn Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-25-2022, 03:30 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-24-2022, 11:26 AM)David Horn Wrote: [ -> ]FWIW, I'm noticing that everyday ordinary people are starting to question why we are still trying to be one country.  I haven't seen that in the past.  The real question, when does that become an issue for the majority (or at least, a large minority)?  If and when it does, the USA is nearing its end as a united cluster of diverse states, and what follows may be chaos.

I notice that watching a documentary about the native first peoples who lived in Arkansas, Texas, Louisiana and Oklahoma, and they describe that area as "that part of the country", and I think, is that really a part of my country? Are those areas a part of my country anymore?

Yes, some places are decidedly Blue and others Red.  But many places are Purple, and I don't know how that plays long term.

It's hard to say. I would put it many places are decidedly Blue and others Red.  But some places are Purple.

The purple states like Texas, Nevada, North Carolina and Arizona are places people are moving TO, and they are moving slowly toward blue. The purple states like Ohio, Iowa, and even PA, MI and WI are places people are moving from, and they are trending more toward red. And then there's Florida.... white retirees moving in, and immigrants moving in..... still seems trending red.....