Generational Theory Forum: The Fourth Turning Forum: A message board discussing generations and the Strauss Howe generational theory

(08-27-2021, 11:48 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-27-2021, 03:11 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]White privilege is real. It doesn't solve every personal problem; it can't offset mental illness, criminality, stupidity, laziness, addiction, isolation, or poverty. The absolute color bar that ensured that a top-notch black professor could not teach in a "white" university or matriculate there as a student is no more. If you know something about what I have, Asperger's syndrome, then you would recognize as I do that it can mess up one's life badly. In the fantastic event that the cure for my personal problems in life could have been solved with "melanin therapy" that would have made me black, then I would have taken it. I'd rather have good facial recognition (its lack is a big social problem), have facial expressions that match my words (which makes my credibility suspect), and deliver me from some troublesome eccentricities that can make me seem an obnoxious twit, then I would. With Asperger's I am nothing more than my intellect. I would never give that up, as that is all that allows me to have any individuality at all. 

If you are a decent white person, then you do not need white privilege. If you want to pretend that you are better than some black person because you are white, then you need white privilege to salve your hurt feelings. The KKK offers that for expensive dues and certain expectations. One Imperial Wizard expects members of his Klan to buy an insurance policy from a shady outfit that he owns and operates. That insurance company does not operate as a normal life-insurance company does; it is the slush fund for the Grand Dragon who lives like a king. On the other hand you can be an extreme low-life and economic loser, even an ex-con, and feel yourself superior to "uppity n---ers" who don't know their "rightful" (that is, subordinate) place in the grand scheme of things.   

White privilege only applies to some white people and the majority of them are Liberal Democrats these days. Take Pelosi for example, it's hard to deny that she's not related to white privilege. She looks like white privilege, acts like white privilege and talks like white privilege. I'm pretty sure she functions and controls people like the white privileged too. As far as advantage, we have advantages poorer people like you and most immigrants these days. We don't have a language barrier or parents clinging to old traditions related to where ever they came from and so forth. We can afford computers, laptops, smart phones and cable. I agree that they're all a bunch of pompous shits who You go out in the real world and talk with some real people and you will learn that very few whites associate themselves and associate whatever they own or accomplished with white privilege. A wife of a friend who tends to repeat what she hears on Democratic related channels said the same thing to me a while ago. Like you, she repeats Democratic talking points without using any thought. I don't know if she was aware of my intelligence level or not. I mean, I talk like an average guy most of the time but I am capable of have a more intelligent and sophisticated conversation or college level discussion which she learned rather quickly.

Privilege as a reward for high achievement is to be expected. With very high achievement come special perks, like high income and access to spectacular opportunities for emotional and intellectual enrichment.  Consider the military: officers are expected to toe the line in many ways, so there's a lot of stuff they can't get away with. But above a certain rank one lives very well. 

So if one is at the top of the game and one must travel, then one gets to stay at 4-star hotels instead of Motel 6 or Super 8. In the latter two one is probably traveling across country between Atlanta and Denver or Dallas and Grand Rapids and is tired enough that the only desirable perk is a continental breakfast that will save time. 

She's the Speaker of the House, dammit! Just think of what goes along with the position. She has access to classified information that you can't imagine... which explains why the person who stole her laptop could get life imprisonment just for that. 

Abuse the privilege and you lose the basis of the privilege. So you are a top-notch singer for a couple decades and your voice goes bad. Bye, bye, good life! Farewell, four-star hotels!

White privilege, as I have found, is mostly convenience. I'm less likely to be stopped. I will never be questioned about "driving while black" near where I live. (OK, the black physician in our town... well, the cops know about him and leave him alone). If I were black I would do much differently, like doing all shopping except for groceries and perhaps some items of clothing (shoes, especially) on line. 

(OK, if you are white and have a car with Vermont license plates and you are driving in certain parts of Hartford, Connecticut, then you are probably there for drugs. Tough luck, white doper in a black neighborhood!) Drug use is an obvious abuse of white privilege. White people use more drugs, use worse drugs, and get away with it longer.

(08-27-2021, 11:48 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]White privilege only applies to some white people and the majority of them are Liberal Democrats these days. Take Pelosi for example, it's hard to deny that she's not related to white privilege. She looks like white privilege, acts like white privilege and talks like white privilege. I'm pretty sure she functions and controls people like the white privileged too.

Well, she's a Silent, and still thinks like one whether she chooses to or not. Her white privilege is the result of 8 decades if life -- the formative 2 in the pre-Civil Rights era. All in all, she' pretty progressive on race, but the wiring still shows from time to time.

Classic-Xer Wrote:As far as advantage, we have advantages poorer people like you and most immigrants these days. We don't have a language barrier or parents clinging to old traditions related to where ever they came from and so forth. We can afford computers, laptops, smart phones and cable. I agree that they're all a bunch of pompous shits who You go out in the real world and talk with some real people and you will learn that very few whites associate themselves and associate whatever they own or accomplished with white privilege.

What? That's totally incoherent.

Classic-Xer Wrote:A wife of a friend who tends to repeat what she hears on Democratic related channels said the same thing to me a while ago. Like you, she repeats Democratic talking points without using any thought. I don't know if she was aware of my intelligence level or not. I mean, I talk like an average guy most of the time but I am capable of have a more intelligent and sophisticated conversation or college level discussion which she learned rather quickly.

You spew what the right serves-up daily. Pot-kettle-black.

(08-28-2021, 11:55 AM)David Horn Wrote: [ -> ]Well, she's a Silent, and still thinks like one whether she chooses to or not.  Her white privilege is the result of 8 decades if life -- the formative 2 in the pre-Civil Rights era.  All in all, she' pretty progressive on race, but the wiring still shows from time to time.

White privilege is only part of the problem. Today, we have black privilege and brown privilege causing problems too. I mean, look at the Obama's and all the special protections they have today. Yes, she seems pretty progressive on race and social policy but she's rich and she's connected the the white privileged who still control the strings and control (pick and choose) the candidates and it's very clear that they're not interested in backing or advancing the best or the strongest politicians/representatives these days. I know this goes against the blue narrative but they are what's left of the white right aka white supremacists today. I don't hate you Dave. Of the group, I've always respected you the most as a person. It's to bad, the white right and the modern American Right are eventually going to go to blows and people like you are going to find themselves caught in the middle of it. Fortunately, you live in a safe place so keep your mouth shut and your head down and you'll be fine. Good Luck. Welcome to the 4T.

I don't want you thinking that I'm in the loop because I'm not in the loop. All I've been doing is using logic and simply sharing my logical conclusions. So far, my logical conclusions have been more accurate than Eric's personal interpretations of the stars. But so far, the two of us have been on the same page about what lays ahead. We both predict a major reckoning. We differ on which side is going to prevail and which side is going to end up being stuck with the shitty end of the stick. Just so you know, the GOP does not represent the American Right. The American Right supported Donald Trump. The GOP supported Joe Biden in the last election and doing whatever it has to keep itself in power. I saw Lindsey Graham talking to Hannity the other day. He looked/spoke like a guy who had an invisible noose around his neck. So, it's not just the Democrats who are in trouble, the GOP are in trouble too.

(08-28-2021, 11:55 AM)David Horn Wrote: [ -> ]You spew what the right serves-up daily.  Pot-kettle-black.

I call it the way I see it. You start doing that instead of remaining partisan (ideologically bound), you'll gain more credibility.

(08-28-2021, 10:10 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]Privilege as a reward for high achievement is to be expected. With very high achievement come special perks, like high income and access to spectacular opportunities for emotional and intellectual enrichment.  Consider the military: officers are expected to toe the line in many ways, so there's a lot of stuff they can't get away with. But above a certain rank one lives very well. 

So if one is at the top of the game and one must travel, then one gets to stay at 4-star hotels instead of Motel 6 or Super 8. In the latter two one is probably traveling across country between Atlanta and Denver or Dallas and Grand Rapids and is tired enough that the only desirable perk is a continental breakfast that will save time. 

She's the Speaker of the House, dammit! Just think of what goes along with the position. She has access to classified information that you can't imagine... which explains why the person who stole her laptop could get life imprisonment just for that. 

Abuse the privilege and you lose the basis of the privilege. So you are a top-notch singer for a couple decades and your voice goes bad. Bye, bye, good life! Farewell, four-star hotels!

White privilege, as I have found, is mostly convenience. I'm less likely to be stopped. I will never be questioned about "driving while black" near where I live. (OK, the black physician in our town... well, the cops know about him and leave him alone). If I were black I would do much differently, like doing all shopping except for groceries and perhaps some items of clothing (shoes, especially) on line. 

(OK, if you are white and have a car with Vermont license plates and you are driving in certain parts of Hartford, Connecticut, then you are probably there for drugs. Tough luck, white doper in a black neighborhood!) Drug use is an obvious abuse of white privilege. White people use more drugs, use worse drugs, and get away with it longer.

Yep. She is the Speaker of the House. So, who does she represent? Does she represent the interest of America or does she represent of Napa Valley, Hollywood and Big Tech? Guess what, raising her and their taxes some isn't going to offset rising interest costs associated with the 30 trillion dollar debt. Dude, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out the blue system associated with FDR, LBJ and Obama is unsustainable. OK. I told that the Biden Administration was going to destroy whatever credibility the government had left, Well, where are we at? I'm not interested in your feelings or you dreams, I'd like to know if you know where we are at right now. The we being the vast majority of US taxpayers today. I'd say that the Democrats and some of the Republicans are treading on very thin ice right now. Wouldn't you? You claim that you have a higher IQ, prove it.

(08-28-2021, 05:58 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-28-2021, 11:55 AM)David Horn Wrote: [ -> ]Well, she's a Silent, and still thinks like one whether she chooses to or not.  Her white privilege is the result of 8 decades if life -- the formative 2 in the pre-Civil Rights era.  All in all, she' pretty progressive on race, but the wiring still shows from time to time.

White privilege is only part of the problem. Today, we have black privilege and brown privilege causing problems too.

The only non-white privilege that I could imagine is "Asian-American" privilege in the sense that most white people see peoples, at the least of east-central Asian origin (Chinese, Koreans, and Japanese) as for all practical purposes "white". When I attended college in California in the 1970's, I could not distinguish such people from white people by skin color alone. Then comes antipathy related to garbage claiming that COVID-19 is biological warfare by China. 

OK. Let's look at someone who has much privilege who is black:

    

Yes, she is privileged because she has honed her musical talent so that she can lease it profitably. She was fortunate to belong to a part of the black bourgeoisie that puts a high value on talent and formal education. Someone white with similar talent and curriculum vitae (let us say Lady Gaga) would also be similarly privileged and would not attribute her success to being white. With her success comes access to five-star hotels and plush accommodations while traveling. I have no idea how she spends her huge earnings and really don't care -- but I can assure you that she lives far better than a welfare recipient, to put it mildly. She has fully earned her privilege, something that she uses to facilitate her achievements.

Privilege is more costly than outright pay. Big business and the government do not offer it unless it is likely to do them perceptible, marketable good.

Nobody gets any special breaks for being black, and not even from the black bourgeoisie. It's open to white spouses who have biracial children who have no cause to identify as white.  

Had she not been murdered, Selena Quintanilla (a Mexican-American) might have had us thinking much the same about her.  

Quote:I mean, look at the Obama's and all the special protections they have today.

As an ex-President and ex-First Lady they get Secret Service protection. Bess Truman got that until she died, as did Lady Bird Johnson. So what! 

Let's remember: Barack Obama is one of the most brilliant, savvy political figures of American history. His talents should be obvious. Able to put words together with mathematical logic and clarity of expression, he is precisely the sort of person who fares well in law school. His personal ethics are unobjectionable. 

How good a President do I think he is? Except for one thing he is the ideal model of a conservative President. No, it is not being black.  

Quote:Yes, she seems pretty progressive on race and social policy but she's rich and she's connected the the white privileged who still control the strings and control (pick and choose) the candidates and it's very clear that they're not interested in backing or advancing the best or the strongest politicians/representatives these days.

Elections show who the strongest pols are for the time. In some times that is the ones who show the most craven obeisance to super-rich interests intent on huge profits from some economic gravy train at the expense of everyone else. In other times the strongest pols are those who needle irresponsible, super-rich plutocrats and callow ignoramuses. We shall see which narrative holds true in 2022 and 2024. 

Quote:I know this goes against the blue narrative but they are what's left of the white right aka white supremacists today. I don't hate you Dave. Of the group, I've always respected you the most as a person. It's to bad, the white right and the modern American Right are eventually going to go to blows and people like you are going to find themselves caught in the middle of it. Fortunately, you live in a safe place so keep your mouth shut and your head down and you'll be fine. Good Luck. Welcome to the 4T.

I know what you think of me. I have an Obama campaign shirt and no "Che Guevara" paraphernalia. I have no use for a murderer. I hold Donald Judas Iscariot Trump in contempt as well as such memes as "Make America Great Again". I have some nostalgia for a time when small business was more the norm in American economic life, when more people were honest-to-God capitalists... but I suppose that millions of Americans decided that retail discounts were more important than having local merchants and that having an ATM card useful without a fee nearly nationwide at Chase, Bank of America, or Wells Fargo was better than buying travelers' checks for out-of-state travel at a local bank, and that multitudes of people with college degrees preferred working for some bloated government or commercial bureaucracy than in some small business (let alone starting one oneself). Then we found it cheaper to import consumer goodies from Chinese sweatshops than to buy from American manufacturers. Trump got a few things right, as is typical of demagogues from Hitler to Peron to Nasser to Castro, but he got much more wrong.      

Quote:I don't want you thinking that I'm in the loop because I'm not in the loop. All I've been doing is using logic and simply sharing my logical conclusions. So far, my logical conclusions have been more accurate than Eric's personal  interpretations of the stars. But so far, the two of us have been on the same page about what lays ahead. We both predict a major reckoning. We differ on which side is going to prevail and which side is going to end up being stuck with the shitty end of the stick. Just so you know, the GOP does not represent the American Right.

What? The moderates and liberals of the past who used to be part of the GOP have either died off, abandoned the GOP, or sold out. The Republican Party has gone from center-right to semi-fascist.  Should it ever go full-blown fascist while it has dominance, then we are all screwed. Even if one supports the system one will find that his children will be cannon fodder for wars for profit, that people that you once thought of as good people except for their politics have somehow vanished without a trace. Working conditions will get harsher, and employers will lengthen hours and shorten pay while allowing people connected to the regime to bleed you for "charitable" contributions to party fronts. Education? Once-great universities would be turned into diploma mills serving people better known for their activism on behalf of the Party than on academic talent. (German university degrees from the Nazi era are considered suspect, but those from before and after that era are well regarded -- even from Commie-era East Germany). Small business? You too would be bled for contributions to Party "charities" that gut the profits that are your living. That's how things went in Hitlerland, which is what Nazism was without the racism and genocide; it was still horrible.

I don't know if you recall a video in which I showed the US Army entering Munich on April 30, 1945 (coincidentally the day on which Adolf Hitler "offed" himself). Except that people aren't bringing out national flags as they had just done in France, Belgium, and Greece or were doing so in stages of deliverance in Italy and the Netherlands or would soon do in Denmark and Norway, it looked much the same. The Cross-of-Satan flag of the demonic Third Reich no longer qualified as a national flag. 

The Day of Liberation from some sick perversion of American political tradition may be the day that marks the end of terror and the beginning of hope.    

Quote:The American Right supported Donald Trump. The GOP supported Joe Biden in the last election and doing whatever it has to keep itself in power. I saw Lindsey Graham talking to Hannity the other day. He looked/spoke like a guy who had an invisible noose around his neck. So, it's not just the Democrats who are in trouble, the GOP are in trouble too.

Some members of the GOP recognized Donald Trump as the dangerous demagogue that he is. Far more didn't. They support him so long as he is useful.  Republicans are in trouble for selling out to Trump.

(08-28-2021, 07:57 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-28-2021, 05:58 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-28-2021, 11:55 AM)David Horn Wrote: [ -> ]Well, she's a Silent, and still thinks like one whether she chooses to or not.  Her white privilege is the result of 8 decades if life -- the formative 2 in the pre-Civil Rights era.  All in all, she' pretty progressive on race, but the wiring still shows from time to time.

White privilege is only part of the problem. Today, we have black privilege and brown privilege causing problems too.

The only non-white privilege that I could imagine is "Asian-American" privilege in the sense that most white people see peoples, at the least of east-central Asian origin (Chinese, Koreans, and Japanese) as for all practical purposes "white". When I attended college in California in the 1970's, I could not distinguish such people from white people by skin color alone. Then comes antipathy related to garbage claiming that COVID-19 is biological warfare by China. 

OK. Let's look at someone who has much privilege who is black:

    

Yes, she is privileged because she has honed her musical talent so that she can lease it profitably. She was fortunate to belong to a part of the black bourgeoisie that puts a high value on talent and formal education. Someone white with similar talent and curriculum vitae (let us say Lady Gaga) would also be similarly privileged and would not attribute her success to being white. With her success comes access to five-star hotels and plush accommodations while traveling. I have no idea how she spends her huge earnings and really don't care -- but I can assure you that she lives far better than a welfare recipient, to put it mildly. She has fully earned her privilege, something that she uses to facilitate her achievements.

Privilege is more costly than outright pay. Big business and the government do not offer it unless it is likely to do them perceptible, marketable good.

Nobody gets any special breaks for being black, and not even from the black bourgeoisie. It's open to white spouses who have biracial children who have no cause to identify as white.  

Had she not been murdered, Selena Quintanilla (a Mexican-American) might have had us thinking much the same about her.  

Imagine??? You must not get around much these days. Oh, that's right, you're a rural blue hick living in Podunk. That explains your disconnect and reliance on imagination to see so to speak. Me, I'm smack dab in the middle of millions of people. I can tell you this, black and brown privilege exists today. You know what white privilege is right. Biden's kid is a prime example of white privilege. How much shit has Biden's kid been able to get away with because of his status? That's white privilege. The Clinton's are another prime example of white privilege too. Look at all the shit the two of them have been able to get away with over the years. I have had some run ins with black and brown privilege over the years. In case you are wondering, white privilege is a sense of entitlement associated with ones status that's prevalent among some white people. You're basically born with privilege, raised with privilege and go on to live the rest of their lives with privilege. Democrats are intellectually lazy and broad brush and associate it with the entire race which is wrong. The term itself only applies to Pelosi and the upper echelon (the white ruling class) that she now represents for the most part. BTW, the majority of them are Liberal these days. I predict the group is going to find itself being stuck with 30 trillion in debt which should wipe them out and render them useless. Like I said, it won't take the American states long to ratify the American Constitution that exists. So, do you think the American revolutionaries who participated in the Revolutionary War were fascists too?

(08-28-2021, 07:57 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]Let's remember: Barack Obama is one of the most brilliant, savvy political figures of American history. His talents should be obvious. Able to put words together with mathematical logic and clarity of expression, he is precisely the sort of person who fares well in law school. His personal ethics are unobjectionable. 

Barack was charismatic and a great speaker and savvy to a point but he never came across to me as being all that brilliant. Being the first minority President had its perks. Special protection is a pretty nice perk. In my opinion, he's overrated but I acknowlege the significance of his election and his place in American history. He represents a monumental achievement, it's to bad he's pissing it all away. If that's brilliant to you, I understand why you are in the position that you are in.

The Biden Administration is as close to a fascist regime as it can get in this country without fear of being killed or removed by force. It's been skirting the line. You are a partisan Democrat. The remaining GOP is going to be wiped out by us democratically or forced to resign by us. America is taking over the Republican party. In short, you aren't an American. You are a partisan Democrat. Do you see how this is going to play out? The last time the Democrats went to war with America, the Democrats lost big time. Sink that into your head because it's coming. I told you that you were making a big mistake electing Biden at the wrong time in history.

(08-29-2021, 01:58 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]The last time the Democrats went to war with America, the Democrats lost big time.

The last time the Democrats went to war, they were the rural racist party fighting for slavery and continued dominance by the agricultural elites.  They got stepped on by the urban industrial opposition.  The parties completed a switch in racial position with the war on drugs and war on poverty on one side, and the Southern Strategy on the other.  Looks like the urban side is on top this time too.

Much of the rest of your post  is equally messed up.  

Something crazy happen that you are posting a lot lately?

(08-29-2021, 01:58 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-28-2021, 07:57 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]Let's remember: Barack Obama is one of the most brilliant, savvy political figures of American history. His talents should be obvious. Able to put words together with mathematical logic and clarity of expression, he is precisely the sort of person who fares well in law school. His personal ethics are unobjectionable. 

Barack was charismatic and a great speaker and savvy to a point but he never came across to me as being all that brilliant. Being the first minority President had its perks. Special protection is a pretty nice perk.  In my opinion, he's overrated but I acknowlege the significance of his election and his place in American history. He represents a monumental achievement, it's to bad he's pissing it all away. If that's brilliant to you, I understand why you are in the position that you are in.

The Biden Administration is as close to a fascist regime as it can get in this country without fear of being killed or removed by force.  It's been skirting the line. You are a partisan Democrat. The remaining GOP is going to be wiped out by us democratically or forced to resign by us. America is taking over the Republican party. In short, you aren't an American. You are a partisan Democrat. Do you see how this is going to play out? The last time the Democrats went to war with America, the Democrats lost big time. Sink that into your head because it's coming. I told you that you were making  a big mistake electing Biden at the wrong time in history.

The only problem with Biden for you guys that I can see is that he is upsetting your cherished ideology. He's willing to tax and spend, and that is sacrilege against Saint Ronnie. You guys can't seem to understand that a party label from 160 years ago doesn't mean what it does today. If your knowledge of history is that shallow, then it suggests you don't know what's going on today either. Which you don't.

(08-28-2021, 07:01 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-28-2021, 10:10 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]Privilege as a reward for high achievement is to be expected. With very high achievement come special perks, like high income and access to spectacular opportunities for emotional and intellectual enrichment.  Consider the military: officers are expected to toe the line in many ways, so there's a lot of stuff they can't get away with. But above a certain rank one lives very well. 

So if one is at the top of the game and one must travel, then one gets to stay at 4-star hotels instead of Motel 6 or Super 8. In the latter two one is probably traveling across country between Atlanta and Denver or Dallas and Grand Rapids and is tired enough that the only desirable perk is a continental breakfast that will save time. 

She's the Speaker of the House, dammit! Just think of what goes along with the position. She has access to classified information that you can't imagine... which explains why the person who stole her laptop could get life imprisonment just for that. 

Abuse the privilege and you lose the basis of the privilege. So you are a top-notch singer for a couple decades and your voice goes bad. Bye, bye, good life! Farewell, four-star hotels!

White privilege, as I have found, is mostly convenience. I'm less likely to be stopped. I will never be questioned about "driving while black" near where I live. (OK, the black physician in our town... well, the cops know about him and leave him alone). If I were black I would do much differently, like doing all shopping except for groceries and perhaps some items of clothing (shoes, especially) on line. 

(OK, if you are white and have a car with Vermont license plates and you are driving in certain parts of Hartford, Connecticut, then you are probably there for drugs. Tough luck, white doper in a black neighborhood!) Drug use is an obvious abuse of white privilege. White people use more drugs, use worse drugs, and get away with it longer.

Yep. She is the Speaker of the House. So, who does she represent? Does she represent the interest of America or does she represent of Napa Valley, Hollywood and Big Tech? Guess what, raising her and their taxes some isn't going to offset rising interest costs associated with the 30 trillion dollar debt. Dude, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out the blue system associated with FDR, LBJ and Obama is unsustainable. OK. I told that the Biden Administration was going to destroy whatever credibility the government had left, Well, where are we at? I'm not interested in your feelings or you dreams, I'd like to know if you know where we are at right now. The we being the vast majority of US taxpayers today. I'd say that the Democrats and some of the Republicans are treading on very thin ice right now. Wouldn't you? You claim that you have a higher IQ, prove it.

Your guy lowered taxes on the wealthy to stoke inequality, and then started two unnecessary wars and bungled them at a cost of trillions. I'd say your guy was the one who caused the debt, which guys like me don't like too much either. But our guy created a national surplus, while your guys raised the debt to unimaginable heights.

(08-29-2021, 01:58 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-28-2021, 07:57 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]Let's remember: Barack Obama is one of the most brilliant, savvy political figures of American history. His talents should be obvious. Able to put words together with mathematical logic and clarity of expression, he is precisely the sort of person who fares well in law school. His personal ethics are unobjectionable. 

Barack was charismatic and a great speaker and savvy to a point but he never came across to me as being all that brilliant. Being the first minority President had its perks. Special protection is a pretty nice perk.  In my opinion, he's overrated but I acknowledge the significance of his election and his place in American history. He represents a monumental achievement, it's to bad he's pissing it all away. If that's brilliant to you, I understand why you are in the position that you are in.

Truly-brilliant people must often downplay their intellect because the masses resent intellectuals. The masses do not understand intellectuals. Smart people can play dumb, but dumb people cannot play smart. I can imagine a different career for Barack Obama in which he finds his way through the judicial branch instead of through electoral politics. Imagine Obama as a prosecutor or judge. He has shown no tolerance for corruption or abuse of power while President, so that seems to be an indelible part of his character. The Chicago machine wanted him out of the way and arranged things so that he would have to run for the state legislature. We all know how that story culminates. 

I can imagine him as a racket-busting DA who goes after official corruption in Chicago on the side. His reticence toward issuing pardons suggests that he is one of those "do the crime and do the time" types. You can understand why the Chicago machine wanted him out of the way. What harm could he do as a state senator? a US Senator? President? Maybe Justice of the US Supreme Court? 

Quote:  
The Biden Administration is as close to a fascist regime as it can get in this country without fear of being killed or removed by force.  It's been skirting the line. You are a partisan Democrat. The remaining GOP is going to be wiped out by us democratically or forced to resign by us. America is taking over the Republican party. In short, you aren't an American. You are a partisan Democrat. Do you see how this is going to play out? The last time the Democrats went to war with America, the Democrats lost big time. Sink that into your head because it's coming. I told you that you were making  a big mistake electing Biden at the wrong time in history.

Are you forgetting someone who fits those well?

(08-29-2021, 12:29 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-28-2021, 07:57 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-28-2021, 05:58 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-28-2021, 11:55 AM)David Horn Wrote: [ -> ]Well, she's a Silent, and still thinks like one whether she chooses to or not.  Her white privilege is the result of 8 decades if life -- the formative 2 in the pre-Civil Rights era.  All in all, she' pretty progressive on race, but the wiring still shows from time to time.

White privilege is only part of the problem. Today, we have black privilege and brown privilege causing problems too.

The only non-white privilege that I could imagine is "Asian-American" privilege in the sense that most white people see peoples, at the least of east-central Asian origin (Chinese, Koreans, and Japanese) as for all practical purposes "white". When I attended college in California in the 1970's, I could not distinguish such people from white people by skin color alone. Then comes antipathy related to garbage claiming that COVID-19 is biological warfare by China. 

OK. Let's look at someone who has much privilege who is black:

    

Yes, she is privileged because she has honed her musical talent so that she can lease it profitably. She was fortunate to belong to a part of the black bourgeoisie that puts a high value on talent and formal education. Someone white with similar talent and curriculum vitae (let us say Lady Gaga) would also be similarly privileged and would not attribute her success to being white. With her success comes access to five-star hotels and plush accommodations while traveling. I have no idea how she spends her huge earnings and really don't care -- but I can assure you that she lives far better than a welfare recipient, to put it mildly. She has fully earned her privilege, something that she uses to facilitate her achievements.

Privilege is more costly than outright pay. Big business and the government do not offer it unless it is likely to do them perceptible, marketable good.

Nobody gets any special breaks for being black, and not even from the black bourgeoisie. It's open to white spouses who have biracial children who have no cause to identify as white.  

Had she not been murdered, Selena Quintanilla (a Mexican-American) might have had us thinking much the same about her.  

Imagine??? You must not get around much these days. Oh, that's right, you're a rural blue hick living  in Podunk. That explains your disconnect and reliance on imagination to see so to speak. Me, I'm smack dab in the middle of millions of people. I can tell you this, black and brown privilege exists today. You know what white privilege is right. Biden's kid is a prime example of white privilege. How much shit has Biden's kid been able to get away with because of his status? That's white privilege. The Clinton's are another prime example of white privilege too. Look at all the shit the two of them have been able to get away with over the years. I have had some run ins with black and brown privilege over the years. In case you are wondering, white privilege is a sense of entitlement associated with ones status that's  prevalent among some white people. You're basically born with privilege, raised with privilege and go on to live the rest of their lives with privilege.  Democrats are intellectually  lazy and broad brush and associate it with the entire race which is wrong.  The term itself only applies to Pelosi and the upper echelon (the white ruling class) that she now represents for the most part. BTW, the majority of them are Liberal these days. I predict the group is going to find itself being stuck with 30 trillion in debt which should wipe them out and render them useless. Like I said, it won't take the American states long to ratify the American Constitution that exists. So, do you think the American revolutionaries who participated in the Revolutionary War were fascists too?

I used to live in Greater Dallas. I learned to size people up by certain cues such as grammar (which corresponds with formal learning, which mattered much more in the 1970's than now) and the topics of conversation. With people not adept in English because they are not native speakers of English, the topics of conversation said more than anything else. There are things that one does not un-learn. 

White privilege is real because plenty of stupid, lazy white people (retail clerks that I knew on the job tended to be stupid and lazy) acted as if every black person was "lesser" than they. Lazy, stupid white people are typically racists. 

But let's look at an account I have seen. One unobjectionable black youth accounted being arrested as an assumed thief. When he pulled out his wallet it had pictures of white people. He has a German surname, and that matches his ID. But -- the cops put that together with him being black and they figured that he had stolen the wallet. He had a simple explanation: his father is white and his mother is black. The white people whose pictures are in his wallet are his paternal-side relatives. He has had to have his father rescue him from that situation several times. 

White liberals have allies who do not look much like them but have similar levels of education and economic success. If you want to say that being a successful attorney, physician, accountant, engineer, or the like is privilege, then that has nothing to do with ethnicity. That is economic or vocational privilege; a society offers that if it is to get people to do the difficult work of attaining specialized ability.

Intellectual laziness practically ensures  failure to get or maintain vocational privilege. How Trump got away with his intellectual laziness astonishes me. Then again, he has found how to finagle.

(08-29-2021, 01:55 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]

Are you forgetting someone who fits those well?

Trump doesn't fit it very well.

Powerful and continuing nationalism goes to Trump and the American Right.

Disdain for human rights goes to Biden And the Democrats. Black Lives Matter and illegal immigrants matter but that's about it the days.

Identification of enemies as a unifying cause goes to Biden, You and the others and the Democrats. Read your own posts, enough said.

Supremacy of the military goes to Biden and the Democrats. They're the ones who have been busy weeding out the military.

Rampant sexism goes to Biden and the Democrats. How many sexual harassment charges did it take to force Cuomo to resign. You'd think sending thousands of COVID back to nursing homes resulting in thousands of deaths would be enough. How many blue chester's have bit the dust over the years?

Controlled mass media goes to Biden and the Democrats. Let's see, Face Book, Twitter, Amazon, Apple, CNN, MSNBC, ABC, NBC & CBS, HBO, Showtime, PBS, NPR and pretty much all the major newspapers.

Obsession with national security goes to Biden and the Democrats, Biden and the Dem's have been pretty obsessed about national security, How much has changed since Jan 6th and how much power have the Democrats given themselves since Jan 6th? Oh, Then there's all the obsession and hysteria related to COVID that Biden, you and the others and the Dem's being associated with national security too.

Religion and Government intertwined goes to Biden and the Democrats. It's not an organized form of religion but it's a global religion of sorts that the far Left and some of you seem to subscribe to and belief in. Global warming, climate change, the global Marxist movement that the so called intellectuals and Woke Culture have been pushing lately

Corporate power protected goes to Biden and the Democrats. Someone is allowing corporations to have powers that are illegal or powers the US government. Like I said, when the violence begins, the violence isn't going to stop until the Democrats tuck their tales and skip town or fully capitulate, The Democrats have a history of skipping town when the chips are down.

Labor power suppressed goes to Biden and the Democrats. Look at the result of the COVID restrictions. How many small business owners and their workers have been impacted by them.

Disdain for intellectuals and the arts. I'd say it does not fit for either side at this point.

Obsession with crime and punishment goes to Biden and the Democrats. Jan 6th and Covid restrictions and mandates. As far as regular crime and punishment. The Biden Administration and the Democratic party doesn't seem to care about rising crime or stopping criminals these days.

Rampant Cronyism and Corruption goes to Biden and the Democrats. We're spending trillions on what? The Democrats want America to spend trillions on who and what? Do you know that only 12% of Americans view the federal government favorably these days? Like I said, If you are reliant on government services, you're pretty much f-d when America lets go of Washington DC in favor of starting anew.

Fraudulent Elections goes to Biden and the Democrats. Local courts changing state election laws is illegal.

(08-30-2021, 10:18 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-29-2021, 01:55 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]

Are you forgetting someone who fits those well?

Trump doesn't fit it very well.

1. Powerful and continuing nationalism goes to Trump and the American Right.
   
2. Disdain for human rights goes to Biden And the Democrats. Black Lives Matter and illegal immigrants matter but that's about it the days.
   
3. Identification of enemies as a unifying cause goes to Biden, You and the others and the Democrats. Read your own posts, enough said.
   
4. Supremacy of the military goes to Biden and the Democrats. They're the ones who have been busy weeding out the military.
   
5. Rampant sexism goes to Biden and the Democrats. How many sexual harassment charges did it take to force Cuomo to resign. You'd think sending thousands of COVID back to nursing homes resulting in thousands of deaths would be enough. How many blue chester's have bit the dust over the years?
   
6. Controlled mass media goes to Biden and the Democrats. Let's see, Face Book, Twitter, Amazon, Apple, CNN, MSNBC, ABC, NBC & CBS, HBO, Showtime, PBS, NPR and pretty much all the major newspapers.
   
7. Obsession with national security goes to Biden and the Democrats, Biden and the Dem's have been pretty obsessed about national security, How much has changed since Jan 6th and how much power have the Democrats given themselves since Jan 6th? Oh, Then there's all the obsession and hysteria related to COVID that Biden, you and the others and the Dem's being associated with national security too.
   
8. Religion and Government intertwined goes to Biden and the Democrats. It's not an organized form of religion but it's a global religion of sorts that the far Left and some of you seem to subscribe to and belief in. Global warming, climate change, the global Marxist movement that the so called intellectuals and Woke Culture have been pushing lately
   
9. Corporate power protected goes to Biden and the Democrats. Someone is allowing corporations to have powers that are illegal or powers the US government. Like I said, when the violence begins, the violence isn't going to stop until the Democrats tuck their tales and skip town or fully capitulate, The Democrats have a history of skipping town when the chips are down.
   
10. Labor power suppressed goes to Biden and the Democrats. Look at the result of the COVID restrictions. How many small business owners and their workers have been impacted by them.
    
11. Disdain for intellectuals and the arts. I'd say it does not fit for either side at this point.
    
12. Obsession with crime and punishment goes to Biden and the Democrats. Jan 6th and Covid restrictions and mandates. As far as regular crime and punishment. The Biden Administration and the Democratic party doesn't seem to care about rising crime or stopping criminals these days.
    
13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption goes to Biden and the Democrats. We're spending trillions on what? The Democrats want America to spend trillions on who and what?  Do you know that only 12% of Americans view the federal government favorably these days? Like I said, If you are reliant on government services, you're pretty much f-d when America lets go of Washington DC in favor of starting anew.
    
14. Fraudulent Elections goes to Biden and the Democrats. Local courts changing state election  laws is illegal.
    

My response in order (numbering mine for simplicity):

1. We agree on this one at least.
   
2. Whoa!  It was Trump who separated children from their parents and lost the paperwork to reunite them.  He also had no issue with MBS killing a journalist for being, you know, a journalist.  In fact, there are so many examples it's hard to list them.
   
3. Come on!  Trump is all about identifying and attacking his enemies -- something he's done his entire life.  He even goes after loyal friends if they aren't sufficiently loyal in his estimation.
   
4. Trump was the guy who wanted military ideation, and used troops as props.  They were "his generals" and "his troops" after all.
   
5. This is such a stretch you have to be kidding.  Democrats got rid of their predators -- even ones who probably didn't really desereve it.  Trump made a point of being a predator and got cheered-on by his party.
   
6. This is easy.  Fox, OANN, Brietbart and many other RW media never criticized Trump, no matter how thoroughly it was deserved.  The so-called MSM have had at Biden for his failures at Afghan withdrawal. since it started  QED.
   
7. This was Trump's forte: get us inside fortress America, build the miltary up even further and screw every other nation -- even staunch allies.  You do remember the wall, I assume.
   
8. Only the GOP and Evangelicals have truly united politics and religion in this country.  Period.
   
9. Trump killed all anti-trust activities, and tried to defund that part of the Justice Department.  He reduced corprate taxes to almopst nothing, and front loaded the cuts via a tax holiday on foreign earnings to make certain that they happened on his watch.
   
10. How you twisted this one is beyond me.  Biden isn't overly friendly to labor, but Trump was and still is outright antagonistic.
    
11. The entier GOP is built on anti-intellectualism.  You guys own this one 100%
    
12. Trump has alwasy been for harsh pnishment of the lowly and a free pass to the rich and powerful.  He lobbyied to have the Central Park Five executed even after they were found unequivocately innocent.
    
13. This isn't even funny.  The Trump adminstation handed out no-bid contracts like candy.
    
14. Trump is still pissed that he couldn't reverse an obvious loss.  He even took it to Congress in force on 1/6.
    

You don't even get a "nice try" on this one.

(08-31-2021, 10:34 AM)David Horn Wrote: [ -> ]My response in order (numbering mine for simplicity):

1. We agree on this one at least.
   
2. Whoa!  It was Trump who separated children from their parents and lost the paperwork to reunite them.  He also had no issue with MBS killing a journalist for being, you know, a journalist.  In fact, there are so many examples it's hard to list them.
   
3. Come on!  Trump is all about identifying and attacking his enemies -- something he's done his entire life.  He even goes after loyal friends if they aren't sufficiently loyal in his estimation.
   
4. Trump was the guy who wanted military ideation, and used troops as props.  They were "his generals" and "his troops" after all.
   
5. This is such a stretch you have to be kidding.  Democrats got rid of their predators -- even ones who probably didn't really desereve it.  Trump made a point of being a predator and got cheered-on by his party.
   
6. This is easy.  Fox, OANN, Brietbart and many other RW media never criticized Trump, no matter how thoroughly it was deserved.  The so-called MSM have had at Biden for his failures at Afghan withdrawal. since it started  QED.
   
7. This was Trump's forte: get us inside fortress America, build the miltary up even further and screw every other nation -- even staunch allies.  You do remember the wall, I assume.
   
8. Only the GOP and Evangelicals have truly united politics and religion in this country.  Period.
   
9. Trump killed all anti-trust activities, and tried to defund that part of the Justice Department.  He reduced corprate taxes to almopst nothing, and front loaded the cuts via a tax holiday on foreign earnings to make certain that they happened on his watch.
   
10. How you twisted this one is beyond me.  Biden isn't overly friendly to labor, but Trump was and still is outright antagonistic.
    
11. The entier GOP is built on anti-intellectualism.  You guys own this one 100%
    
12. Trump has alwasy been for harsh pnishment of the lowly and a free pass to the rich and powerful.  He lobbyied to have the Central Park Five executed even after they were found unequivocately innocent.
    
13. This isn't even funny.  The Trump adminstation handed out no-bid contracts like candy.
    
14. Trump is still pissed that he couldn't reverse an obvious loss.  He even took it to Congress in force on 1/6.
    

You don't even get a "nice try" on this one.

I didn't expect a "nice try" from you guys. I expected more of the same. So, how long are you guys going to continue going along with polishing turds? You do know a polished turd is still a turd right?

(08-30-2021, 10:18 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-29-2021, 01:55 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]

Are you forgetting someone who fits those well?

Trump doesn't fit it very well.

You can't see it?

Quote:1. Powerful and continuing nationalism goes to Trump and the American Right.

You are completely right on that. 

Quote:2. Disdain for human rights goes to Biden And the Democrats. Black Lives Matter and illegal immigrants matter but that's about it the days.

Donald Trump tried to establish a secret police to harass political opponents.  Hello, Stasi my old friend!
 

Quote:3. Identification of enemies as a unifying cause goes to Biden, You and the others and the Democrats. Read your own posts, enough said.

I'd rather that we didn't have the Michigan Plot or the Capitol Putsch. Biden has spoken little of them, which is a good idea because their deeds are now going through the process of criminal justice. 
 

Quote:4. Supremacy of the military goes to Biden and the Democrats. They're the ones who have been busy weeding out the military.

Trump has tried to make the military pawns in partisan politics. The Armed Services will have nothing of that.

Quote:5. Rampant sexism goes to Biden and the Democrats. How many sexual harassment charges did it take to force Cuomo to resign. You'd think sending thousands of COVID back to nursing homes resulting in thousands of deaths would be enough. How many blue chester's have bit the dust over the years?

Pre4sident Biden asked Andrew Cuomo to resign once the accusations were made clear. Those hit all at once, as is so with such things. 

Quote:6. Controlled mass media goes to Biden and the Democrats. Let's see, Face Book, Twitter, Amazon, Apple, CNN, MSNBC, ABC, NBC & CBS, HBO, Showtime, PBS, NPR and pretty much all the major newspapers.

Mercifully he never achieved this, but it looks as if it were only a matter of time. If the news media are uncomfortable with him, then they must have something on him.  
 

Quote:7. Obsession with national security goes to Biden and the Democrats, Biden and the Dem's have been pretty obsessed about national security, How much has changed since Jan 6th and how much power have the Democrats given themselves since Jan 6th? Oh, Then there's all the obsession and hysteria related to COVID that Biden, you and the others and the Dem's being associated with national security too.

The Capitol Putsch can't be good for Republicans now. 

Quote:8. Religion and Government intertwined goes to Biden and the Democrats. It's not an organized form of religion but it's a global religion of sorts that the far Left and some of you seem to subscribe to and belief in. Global warming, climate change, the global Marxist movement that the so called intellectuals and Woke Culture have been pushing lately

science  your myth culture

None of it is religion. Trump did that dreadful stunt of raising a Bible (which he neither reads nor heeds) in front of a church that he does not attend (he is not an Episcopalian) after having protesters driven off forcefully. The attempt failed except to shock and offend.
 

Quote:9. Corporate power protected goes to Biden and the Democrats. Someone is allowing corporations to have powers that are illegal or powers the US government. Like I said, when the violence begins, the violence isn't going to stop until the Democrats tuck their tales and skip town or fully capitulate, The Democrats have a history of skipping town when the chips are down.

pure fantasy 

Trump stood fully for Big Business on just about every issue from workplace safety to the environment to reduction of the use of fossil fuel. 

Quote:10. Labor power suppressed goes to Biden and the Democrats. Look at the result of the COVID restrictions. How many small business owners and their workers have been impacted by them.

Covid restrictions have saved lives. Big Business, Big Religion (including the biggest of them all in America, the Roman Catholic Church), and lots of wise individuals have done much to save life from the Plague of Donald Trump.  

Quote:11. Disdain for intellectuals and the arts. I'd say it does not fit for either side at this point.

Trump has been against academia on COVID-19 and AGW very consistently. 

Quote:12. Obsession with crime and punishment goes to Biden and the Democrats. Jan 6th and Covid restrictions and mandates. As far as regular crime and punishment. The Biden Administration and the Democratic party doesn't seem to care about rising crime or stopping criminals these days.

Biden, like Obama, is sneaky in support of law and order. Both let the courts do their job  without saying anything. Neither gives many pardons. Biden does not use fear of crime as an excuse for divisive policies.  
  

Quote:13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption goes to Biden and the Democrats. We're spending trillions on what? The Democrats want America to spend trillions on who and what?  Do you know that only 12% of Americans view the federal government favorably these days? Like I said, If you are reliant on government services, you're pretty much f-d when America lets go of Washington DC in favor of starting anew.

No, that is Donald Trump to a tee. 

Quote:Fraudulent Elections goes to Biden and the Democrats. Local courts changing state election  laws is illegal.

Biden won by a narrower margin than expected, probably because many people who had voted died. That explains the slow count in some states; elections officials were disqualifying the ballots of people who had cast votes and subsequently died. Dead people have no right to vote.   Trump still tried to negate the vote, which would have been vote fraud of the worst kind -- the sort that would have made him a dictator.

(09-01-2021, 05:26 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-30-2021, 10:18 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-29-2021, 01:55 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]

Are you forgetting someone who fits those well?

Trump doesn't fit it very well.

You can't see it?

What else is new? But thanks for stepping in brower, where I did not feel like doing.

Quote:

Quote:1. Powerful and continuing nationalism goes to Trump and the American Right.

You are completely right on that. 

Quote:2. Disdain for human rights goes to Biden And the Democrats. Black Lives Matter and illegal immigrants matter but that's about it the days.

Donald Trump tried to establish a secret police to harass political opponents.  Hello, Stasi my old friend!
 

Quote:3. Identification of enemies as a unifying cause goes to Biden, You and the others and the Democrats. Read your own posts, enough said.

I'd rather that we didn't have the Michigan Plot or the Capitol Putsch. Biden has spoken little of them, which is a good idea because their deeds are now going through the process of criminal justice. 
 

Trump used immigrants from south of the border and from Arab lands as enemies to stoke his appeal. No president or candidate in USA history did this use of enemies so strongly or successfully in American history as Trump did.

Quote:

Quote:4. Supremacy of the military goes to Biden and the Democrats. They're the ones who have been busy weeding out the military.

Trump has tried to make the military pawns in partisan politics. The Armed Services will have nothing of that.

Trump organized military parades, and stepped up funding to the military when it was not needed and when the USA already had more military spending and hardware than the next 10 nations combined.

Quote:

Quote:5. Rampant sexism goes to Biden and the Democrats. How many sexual harassment charges did it take to force Cuomo to resign. You'd think sending thousands of COVID back to nursing homes resulting in thousands of deaths would be enough. How many blue chester's have bit the dust over the years?

President Biden asked Andrew Cuomo to resign once the accusations were made clear. Those hit all at once, as is so with such things. 

I'd say Trump's sexual misconduct and harrassment of women is second to none.

Quote:

Quote:6. Controlled mass media goes to Biden and the Democrats. Let's see, Face Book, Twitter, Amazon, Apple, CNN, MSNBC, ABC, NBC & CBS, HBO, Showtime, PBS, NPR and pretty much all the major newspapers.

Mercifully he never achieved this, but it looks as if it were only a matter of time. If the news media are uncomfortable with him, then they must have something on him.  
 

Quote:7. Obsession with national security goes to Biden and the Democrats, Biden and the Dem's have been pretty obsessed about national security, How much has changed since Jan 6th and how much power have the Democrats given themselves since Jan 6th? Oh, Then there's all the obsession and hysteria related to COVID that Biden, you and the others and the Dem's being associated with national security too.

The Capitol Putsch can't be good for Republicans now. 

Again, the military buildup under Trump speaks volumes. Dealing correctly with criminals (e.g. Jan 6th) is not obsession.

Quote:

Quote:8. Religion and Government intertwined goes to Biden and the Democrats. It's not an organized form of religion but it's a global religion of sorts that the far Left and some of you seem to subscribe to and belief in. Global warming, climate change, the global Marxist movement that the so called intellectuals and Woke Culture have been pushing lately

science  your myth culture

None of it is religion. Trump did that dreadful stunt of raising a Bible (which he neither reads nor heeds) in front of a church that he does not attend (he is not an Episcopalian) after having protesters driven off forcefully. The attempt failed except to shock and offend.

Trump appealed to religion all the time, and got the support of evangelicals. The fact that he is not religious at all shows it is just politics. Calling dealing with facts "religion" shows your belief in the religious ideology of trickle-down economics.

Quote:

Quote:9. Corporate power protected goes to Biden and the Democrats. Someone is allowing corporations to have powers that are illegal or powers the US government. Like I said, when the violence begins, the violence isn't going to stop until the Democrats tuck their tales and skip town or fully capitulate, The Democrats have a history of skipping town when the chips are down.

pure fantasy 

Trump stood fully for Big Business on just about every issue from workplace safety to the environment to reduction of the use of fossil fuel.  Neo-liberal, trickle-down economics to an unprecedented degree.

Quote:10. Labor power suppressed goes to Biden and the Democrats. Look at the result of the COVID restrictions. How many small business owners and their workers have been impacted by them.

Covid restrictions have saved lives. Big Business, Big Religion (including the biggest of them all in America, the Roman Catholic Church), and lots of wise individuals have done much to save life from the Plague of Donald Trump.  

With Trump's full support, Republicans have consistently failed to support bills for labor rights.

Quote:

Quote:11. Disdain for intellectuals and the arts. I'd say it does not fit for either side at this point.

Trump has been against academia on COVID-19 very consistently. 

Quote:12. Obsession with crime and punishment goes to Biden and the Democrats. Jan 6th and Covid restrictions and mandates. As far as regular crime and punishment. The Biden Administration and the Democratic party doesn't seem to care about rising crime or stopping criminals these days.

Biden, like Obama, is sneaky in support of law and order. Both let the courts do their job without saying anything. Neither gives many pardons. Biden does not use fear of crime as an excuse for divisive policies. but Trump did to the max  
  

Quote:13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption goes to Biden and the Democrats. We're spending trillions on what? The Democrats want America to spend trillions on who and what?  Do you know that only 12% of Americans view the federal government favorably these days? Like I said, If you are reliant on government services, you're pretty much f-d when America lets go of Washington DC in favor of starting anew.

No, that is Donald Trump to a tee. 

Quote:

Quote:Fraudulent Elections goes to Biden and the Democrats. Local courts changing state election laws is illegal.

Biden won by a narrower margin than expected, probably because many people who had voted died. That explains the slow count in some states; elections officials were disqualifying the ballots of people who had cast votes and subsequently died. Dead people have no right to vote. Trump still tried to negate the vote, which would have been vote fraud of the worst kind -- the sort that would have made him a dictator.

Trump even tried to get Georgia election officials to change the vote. His attempted coup on Jan.6th was a blatant attempt to negate democracy, powered by his slogan "stop the steal." With Trump's full financial and moral support, Republicans are substituting partisan hacks for election officials and empowering legislators to reverse election results. His Party opposes voting rights at every turn and has used gerrymandering as no Party has ever done.

And NO, just because you are a blind pig asshole, Classic Xer, who denies covid and refuses to be vaccinated, thus spreading the disease in a state that is hard hit, and don't care that voters would have had to get sick standing in lines to vote unless the legislatures had put in mail-in voting and longer hours etc., does not mean that Courts "changing election laws" in this way is illegal. The Courts Trump himself appointed upheld the election results in every case, which means that you have none. You and your Party and your Ideology are against democracy at every turn.

(08-31-2021, 11:37 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-31-2021, 10:34 AM)David Horn Wrote: [ -> ]My response in order (numbering mine for simplicity):

1. We agree on this one at least.
   
2. Whoa!  It was Trump who separated children from their parents and lost the paperwork to reunite them.  He also had no issue with MBS killing a journalist for being, you know, a journalist.  In fact, there are so many examples it's hard to list them.
   
3. Come on!  Trump is all about identifying and attacking his enemies -- something he's done his entire life.  He even goes after loyal friends if they aren't sufficiently loyal in his estimation.
   
4. Trump was the guy who wanted military ideation, and used troops as props.  They were "his generals" and "his troops" after all.
   
5. This is such a stretch you have to be kidding.  Democrats got rid of their predators -- even ones who probably didn't really deserve it.  Trump made a point of being a predator and got cheered-on by his party.
   
6. This is easy.  Fox, OANN, Breitbart and many other RW media never criticized Trump, no matter how thoroughly it was deserved.  The so-called MSM have had at Biden for his failures at Afghan withdrawal. since it started  QED.
   
7. This was Trump's forte: get us inside fortress America, build the military up even further and screw every other nation -- even staunch allies.  You do remember the wall, I assume.
   
8. Only the GOP and Evangelicals have truly united politics and religion in this country.  Period.
   
9. Trump killed all anti-trust activities, and tried to defund that part of the Justice Department.  He reduced corporate taxes to almost nothing, and front loaded the cuts via a tax holiday on foreign earnings to make certain that they happened on his watch.
   
10. How you twisted this one is beyond me.  Biden isn't overly friendly to labor, but Trump was and still is outright antagonistic.
    
11. The entire GOP is built on anti-intellectualism.  You guys own this one 100%
    
12. Trump has alwasy been for harsh punishment of the lowly and a free pass to the rich and powerful.  He lobbied to have the Central Park Five executed even after they were found unequivocably innocent.
    
13. This isn't even funny.  The Trump administration handed out no-bid contracts like candy.
    
14. Trump is still pissed that he couldn't reverse an obvious loss.  He even took it to Congress in force on 1/6.
    

You don't even get a "nice try" on this one.

I didn't expect a "nice try" from you guys. I expected more of the same. So, how long are you guys going to continue going along with polishing turds? You do know a polished turd is still a turd right?

I tried to be different from David Horn in explaining how wrong you are and especially how wrong Trump is. Trump shows all of the warning signs of fascism. He may not be the one to achieve it; he is simply too erratic, lazy, and witless to achieve it. If Classic X'er is a genuine fascist (whether he knows it or not) then the disappearance of his idol Trump from public life will not lead him from fascism. He will find another racist demagogue who tells him what he wants to hear. 

(If some con artist tells me that I am an unusually astute investor who can appreciate a truly-special investment, then I am running away. I know that I am not Warren Buffett, and I would rather follow Warren Buffett than someone who tries to butter me up into buying some shady investment. That is, if I had the money).  

We aren't out of the woods. At least the "lions and tigers and bears" usually try to leave us alone. Statistically you are in far more danger from a rabid animal than from "lions and tigers and bears". If Toto does not have his rabies shot he is even more dangerous than "lions and tigers and bears" in the woods... or if Baum had put the yellow brick road through a swamp, alligators in said swamp.  

Fascism does not need the personality of Donald Trump. It does need deviousness and demagoguery. It needs the Big Lie, the effort to harmonize logical contradictions between class interests, between tradition and progress, between superstition and science, and the pompous self-image of the demagogue against his moral emptiness. There will be another after Trump is gone. Maybe someone more sophisticated. On the other hand, if we get genuine human solidarity, fascism will become a sick joke much like BUF figures from the 1930's in Monty Python sketches.

(09-01-2021, 05:18 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]Fascism does not need the personality of Donald Trump. It does need deviousness and demagoguery. It needs the Big Lie, the effort to harmonize logical contradictions between class interests, between tradition and progress, between superstition and science, and the pompous self-image of the demagogue against his moral emptiness. There will be another after Trump is gone. Maybe someone more sophisticated. On the other hand, if we get genuine human solidarity, fascism will become a sick joke much like BUF figures from the 1930's in Monty Python sketches.

I would estimate that you are correct. Many fascist dictatorships around the world past and present are not led by a talented story-teller and bullshit artist like Trump. Originally, it depended on demagogues with real talent: Mussolini and Hitler. And Trump is a talented one too. But Pinochet was not, or Franco or Salazar, or countless other thugs the USA has supported or opposed, like Putin, Assad, Lukashenko, Orban, etc. George W Bush had a certain charismatic talent, hardly visible to those of us on the blue side, but almost magically-appealing to those on the red side. He was also leading us down the road to fascism, although we tend to forget about this in the shadow of their Party's next even-more overt attempt to lead us there.

Girls like Guilfoyle or Taylor Greene could work some magic too, or guys like Tom Cotton. Not to mention Ivanka Trump. Not nearly on the level of the founders of fascism that launched history's greatest war, but good enough for Mother America. I suspect another right-wing demagogue, someone more sophisticated, would have to have a high horoscope score. Cotton fills that bill, as do MTG and some others available today. You can always survey the list: https://philosopherswheel.com/presidenti...ScoredWhat